There's a reason we classify purchasing advice as belonging in General Discussion rather than Future Hardware: Speculating about what will appear in which Mac when is fun and sometimes even informative, but since nobody really knows anything it's not of much use as far as when and how you should spend money.
You're looking at a PowerBook? Great. Look at one. If what you have doesn't cut it anymore, and if the current PowerBook will take good care of you, get the PowerBook. There's really no reason not to buy what you need when you need it: then, when you need something, you have it. My brother has a 1.25GHz PowerBook, and having played around on it some, I'd vouch for the current line as being excellent machines.
IMO, if you have the money, life is too short to pine away for months while you limp along on old hardware and overlook perfectly good replacements.
Of course, if Apple is not making what you need, that's another issue entirely...
There's a reason we classify purchasing advice as belonging in General Discussion rather than Future Hardware: Speculating about what will appear in which Mac when is fun and sometimes even informative, but since nobody really knows anything it's not of much use as far as when and how you should spend money.
You're looking at a PowerBook? Great. Look at one. If what you have doesn't cut it anymore, and if the current PowerBook will take good care of you, get the PowerBook. There's really no reason not to buy what you need when you need it: then, when you need something, you have it. My brother has a 1.25GHz PowerBook, and having played around on it some, I'd vouch for the current line as being excellent machines.
IMO, if you have the money, life is too short to pine away for months while you limp along on old hardware and overlook perfectly good replacements.
Of course, if Apple is not making what you need, that's another issue entirely...
Good point.
The problem here is that most people don't really "need It" right now, so nobody wants to spend money in a machine that might get a huge improvement (G5?) sometime very soon. So, people will just wait and complain about the wait.
If you really need it now, so then go buy it the current line up.
Apple would not announce a new PowerBook within five months of a revision. Sorry, we may see updated PowerBooks in September/October/November - but even then it wont be a G5. It takes six months (according to a reliable source) to put a new chip in a PowerBook. The G5 chip isn't ready yet. The next PowerBook will be a dual-core G4
As you are from the UK, may I use a British English expression?
Bollocks.
Apple will announce its new PowerBooks when they're ready - which probably means when they've got the processors they want. The last revision was a typical "last of model" bump - a bit more speed, a few more features, no major redesign, lower price.
No way will they have spent the last two years sitting on their hands. Nor are they going to design a new chipset to support the promised dual-core G4s.
My own feeling is that the 970FX was supposed to be the laptop chip (IBM have said as much), but that with the associated support chips it couldn't be made to work within any sort of sensible thermal/power budget.
Some form of PowerBook G5 will be out this year - probably at or before WWDC in early June. Whether they use one of the new revisions of the 970 or something else remains to be seen. I think "something else", but then I am a past master at talking...
As you are from the UK, may I use a British English expression?
May I say old chap that you may be right.
To use an American expression: WTF, Whatever, talk to the elbow because at least it's got a point!!
However, I do not see a G5 PB at WWDC. I respect your opinion but really don't see it happening. Why would Apple risk sales of PowerBook G4s by releasing a new G5 so soon after a revision? (Unless they did the same as the PowerMacs and kept the G4 going).
Oh BTW welcome to the forums. - I you ever think I'm being rude I'm not, it's my English sense of humour!!
Why would Apple risk sales of PowerBook G4s by releasing a new G5 so soon after a revision? (Unless they did the same as the PowerMacs and kept the G4 going).
Oh BTW welcome to the forums. - I you ever think I'm being rude I'm not, it's my English sense of humour!!
Where's the risk in replacing an old model with a new one? Provided that the "new" PowerBooks are faster, better, and the same price, then sales will go up - because, as many threads testify - there's a huge amount of interest out there.
Where's the risk in replacing an old model with a new one? Provided that the "new" PowerBooks are faster, better, and the same price, then sales will go up - because, as many threads testify - there's a huge amount of interest out there.
Thanks for the welcome.
Pip pip!
Exactly, that's my point too.
The current line up has nice new features, but the 10% upgrade in processor speed is a sad improvement. Apple and Motorola definitely hit a wall with the G4. My feeling too is that G5 might have it's debut at WWDC or at the latest Paris expo. People are not buying PowerBooks because the upgrade is not substantial. So a new machine would not hurt the current line up because the sales are not that great anyway.
Of course Apple will always say that G5 PowerBooks are long time away. If they say otherwise nobody would buy the current PowerBooks.
There are rumors too of new PowerBooks sporting a HD resolution screen ( http://www.macosrumors.com/20050213B.php ) backing up Steve words of "year of the HD". So everything indicates that change is going to happen sooner than later.
Am I the only one to suspect that the new PowerPC core in the cell chip might be the G5-mobile? However I don't have the details to tell for sure.
According to this document, which describes the new cell architecture, the total power consumption of the chip is projected to be in the 50-80 watt range. This comprises power for 8 SPEs and 1 PPE (the 64-bit PowerPC core), at frequencies well above 4 GHz. Now, can anyone tell what would be the power consumption for the 64-bit PowerPC core, for a clock speed range, say, 3-4 GHz?
Note that this core has a VMX unit for backwards compatibility with Altivec code. Perhaps this 64-bit processor is not as powerful as a PPC970 G5, however the question is how it compares to the G4 we have now in the Powerbooks. Who will try to shed some light here ?
If you can wait, wait. That is always the best solution, don't buy until you have too. I just grabbed a Circuit City add and did a little comparison of PC Laptops to the current 17" Apple Flagship.
One can get an HP 17" with:
1gig of Ram
100 gig HD
P4 3.42 ghz/ 1mb L2 Cache / 800 mhz FSB
256 mb Graphics Card
802.11g
XP Media edition for 2200 bucks.
DVD Burner
Yeah, you get a Plastic PeeCee and all, but pound for pound (not literally) the powerbook only really stands out aesthetically. I don't believe Apple will let it stay that way for another year and a half. It may not be a "G5", but it will be a pretty smokin' dual core G4 with a sweet new design, 802.11n, dual layer burner, 6-8 hours of battery life. They'll be back on top soon.
I think Programmer already discussed this in the Cell thread, that the Cell's processor core has a longer but stupider pipeline, etc.
Indeed:
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer in the "New Powermacs to use Cell Processor?" thread
Most operations which are slow on a consumer's machine are things which can be accelerated with VMX/SPE. The majority of other stuff is already fast enough that the Cell's 4 GHz PPE would deal with it at least as well as a 2 GHz G5... probably better because the SPEs will be taking the expensive stuff off of its shoulders.
If this is to be believed, the cell PPE at 4 GHz will destroy a G4. So the question is how much watts such a PPE needs, alone or with, say, 2 SPEs.
The problem here is that most people don't really "need It" right now, so nobody wants to spend money in a machine that might get a huge improvement (G5?) sometime very soon. So, people will just wait and complain about the wait.
If you really need it now, so then go buy it the current line up.
I agree! Their are so many people sitting and complaining about the latest powerbook upgrade. The current line up is worth every penny. Since the G5 probably won't be seen till 2006, people should just shut up and be happy with what they have currently.
I agree! Their are some many people sitting and complaining about the latest powerbook upgrade. The current line up is worth every penny. Since the G5 probably won't be seen till 2006, people should just shut up and be happy with what they have currently.
Just some historical Data if anyone is interested:
First: Apple-history.com
Quote:
Introduced in January 2003, The PowerMac G4 (FireWire 800) was primarily a speed bump of the G4 MDD line, although it did include several architecture enhancements. The most exciting new features were the inclusion of a single FireWire 800 port, internal support for the BlueTooth wireless standard, and support for the AirPort Extreme wireless networking system. AirPort Extreme was the Apple moniker for the 802.11g standard, which supported speeds of up to 54 Mbps and was backward compatible with existing 802.11b/AirPort devices.
The PowerMac G4 (FW800) represented the fastest and least expensive line of PowerMacs Apple had ever introduced. The 1.0 Ghz model, with 256 MB of RAM, a CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive, a 60 GB hard drive and a 64 MB NVIDIA GeForce4 MX graphics card, sold for $1499. The dual 1.25 Ghz model, with 256 MB of RAM, a CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive, an 80 GB hard drive, and a 64 MB ATI Radeon 9000 Pro graphics card, sold for $1999. The high-end dual 1.42 Ghz model, with 512 MB of RAM, a CD-RW/DVD-R drive, a 120 GB hard disk and a 64 MB ATI Radeon 9000 Pro graphics card, was a modest $2699, making it the cheapest high-end Power Mac ever.
Note the similarities:
[list=1][*] January introduction[*] Mainly speedbump, with a few architectural changes[*] New form of bluetooth [*] Fastest and least expensive line up[*] $2699 high end[*] Cheapest high end in recent days (or ever..I think)[/list=1]
Too much to ignore, btw:
Quote:
The PowerMac G4 (FireWire 800) was discontinued in June of 2003 and was replaced by the PowerMac G5.
Just some historical Data if anyone is interested:
First: Apple-history.com
Note the similarities:
[list=1][*] January introduction[*] Mainly speedbump, with a few architectural changes[*] New form of bluetooth [*] Fastest and least expensive line up[*] $2699 high end[*] Cheapest high end in recent days (or ever..I think)[/list=1]
Too much to ignore, btw:
These patterns can't be applied to the PowerBook range. If Apple could make a G5 now they would. They wanted to have a G5 ready for January, that's why the update took so long. Apple will eventually get a G5 in the PowerBook but we cannot necessarily say it will happen in June. There have been no finished mobile G5 chips yet; it usually takes six months from the introduction of the chip, apparently.
These patterns can't be applied to the PowerBook range. If Apple could make a G5 now they would. They wanted to have a G5 ready for January, that's why the update took so long. Apple will eventually get a G5 in the PowerBook but we cannot necessarily say it will happen in June. There have been no finished mobile G5 chips yet; it usually takes six months from the introduction of the chip, apparently.
........... and let's not forget about the heating issues with the G5 chip. Did the G4's have the same heating issue?
........... and let's not forget about the heating issues with the G5 chip. Did the G4's have the same heating issue?
Heating is the problem (hence the need for a special G5 chip). G4s were designed as a fast processor but it was a very cool processor. The bottom of my PowerBook would tend to disagree, however! The Gs wasn't designed for the same purpose. Jobs said the the G5 was the future road-map, but the G4 was the future road-map. How long did it take to get into an iBook?! I think Apple will get a dual-core or something and call it a G5 to make it seem faster. The iMac is supposed to be a G5 but compare the bus to that of the PowerMac.
ANyway how much faster will a G5 be than the current PowerBooks?
Heating is the problem (hence the need for a special G5 chip). G4s were designed as a fast processor but it was a very cool processor. The bottom of my PowerBook would tend to disagree, however! The Gs wasn't designed for the same purpose. Jobs said the the G5 was the future road-map, but the G4 was the future road-map. How long did it take to get into an iBook?! I think Apple will get a dual-core or something and call it a G5 to make it seem faster. The iMac is supposed to be a G5 but compare the bus to that of the PowerMac.
ANyway how much faster will a G5 be than the current PowerBooks?
I have a feeling that the first generation G5 PowerBooks will have only a slight increase in speed. Not anything major like most people are waiting for.
I have a feeling that the first generation G5 PowerBooks will have only a slight increase in speed. Not anything major like most people are waiting for.
A 2GHz G5 was what I was waiting for. I think that is doable. It depends how long it is though. If this thing comes out in a year it has to be more than 2. I see the dual-core as the future for the moment.
Comments
Originally posted by Amorph
There's a reason we classify purchasing advice as belonging in General Discussion rather than Future Hardware: Speculating about what will appear in which Mac when is fun and sometimes even informative, but since nobody really knows anything it's not of much use as far as when and how you should spend money.
You're looking at a PowerBook? Great. Look at one.
IMO, if you have the money, life is too short to pine away for months while you limp along on old hardware and overlook perfectly good replacements.
Of course, if Apple is not making what you need, that's another issue entirely...
another excellent point
Originally posted by Amorph
There's a reason we classify purchasing advice as belonging in General Discussion rather than Future Hardware: Speculating about what will appear in which Mac when is fun and sometimes even informative, but since nobody really knows anything it's not of much use as far as when and how you should spend money.
You're looking at a PowerBook? Great. Look at one.
IMO, if you have the money, life is too short to pine away for months while you limp along on old hardware and overlook perfectly good replacements.
Of course, if Apple is not making what you need, that's another issue entirely...
Good point.
The problem here is that most people don't really "need It" right now, so nobody wants to spend money in a machine that might get a huge improvement (G5?) sometime very soon. So, people will just wait and complain about the wait.
If you really need it now, so then go buy it the current line up.
Originally posted by MacCrazy
Apple would not announce a new PowerBook within five months of a revision. Sorry, we may see updated PowerBooks in September/October/November - but even then it wont be a G5. It takes six months (according to a reliable source) to put a new chip in a PowerBook. The G5 chip isn't ready yet. The next PowerBook will be a dual-core G4
As you are from the UK, may I use a British English expression?
Bollocks.
Apple will announce its new PowerBooks when they're ready - which probably means when they've got the processors they want. The last revision was a typical "last of model" bump - a bit more speed, a few more features, no major redesign, lower price.
No way will they have spent the last two years sitting on their hands. Nor are they going to design a new chipset to support the promised dual-core G4s.
My own feeling is that the 970FX was supposed to be the laptop chip (IBM have said as much), but that with the associated support chips it couldn't be made to work within any sort of sensible thermal/power budget.
Some form of PowerBook G5 will be out this year - probably at or before WWDC in early June. Whether they use one of the new revisions of the 970 or something else remains to be seen. I think "something else", but then I am a past master at talking...
...bollocks.
Pip pip!
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
As you are from the UK, may I use a British English expression?
May I say old chap that you may be right.
To use an American expression: WTF, Whatever, talk to the elbow because at least it's got a point!!
However, I do not see a G5 PB at WWDC. I respect your opinion but really don't see it happening. Why would Apple risk sales of PowerBook G4s by releasing a new G5 so soon after a revision? (Unless they did the same as the PowerMacs and kept the G4 going).
Oh BTW welcome to the forums. - I you ever think I'm being rude I'm not, it's my English sense of humour!!
Originally posted by MacCrazy
Why would Apple risk sales of PowerBook G4s by releasing a new G5 so soon after a revision? (Unless they did the same as the PowerMacs and kept the G4 going).
Oh BTW welcome to the forums. - I you ever think I'm being rude I'm not, it's my English sense of humour!!
Where's the risk in replacing an old model with a new one? Provided that the "new" PowerBooks are faster, better, and the same price, then sales will go up - because, as many threads testify - there's a huge amount of interest out there.
Thanks for the welcome.
Pip pip!
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
Where's the risk in replacing an old model with a new one? Provided that the "new" PowerBooks are faster, better, and the same price, then sales will go up - because, as many threads testify - there's a huge amount of interest out there.
Thanks for the welcome.
Pip pip!
Exactly, that's my point too.
The current line up has nice new features, but the 10% upgrade in processor speed is a sad improvement. Apple and Motorola definitely hit a wall with the G4. My feeling too is that G5 might have it's debut at WWDC or at the latest Paris expo. People are not buying PowerBooks because the upgrade is not substantial. So a new machine would not hurt the current line up because the sales are not that great anyway.
Of course Apple will always say that G5 PowerBooks are long time away. If they say otherwise nobody would buy the current PowerBooks.
There are rumors too of new PowerBooks sporting a HD resolution screen ( http://www.macosrumors.com/20050213B.php ) backing up Steve words of "year of the HD". So everything indicates that change is going to happen sooner than later.
According to this document, which describes the new cell architecture, the total power consumption of the chip is projected to be in the 50-80 watt range. This comprises power for 8 SPEs and 1 PPE (the 64-bit PowerPC core), at frequencies well above 4 GHz. Now, can anyone tell what would be the power consumption for the 64-bit PowerPC core, for a clock speed range, say, 3-4 GHz?
Note that this core has a VMX unit for backwards compatibility with Altivec code. Perhaps this 64-bit processor is not as powerful as a PPC970 G5, however the question is how it compares to the G4 we have now in the Powerbooks. Who will try to shed some light here
Originally posted by Mawsdz
If you can wait, wait. That is always the best solution, don't buy until you have too. I just grabbed a Circuit City add and did a little comparison of PC Laptops to the current 17" Apple Flagship.
One can get an HP 17" with:
1gig of Ram
100 gig HD
P4 3.42 ghz/ 1mb L2 Cache / 800 mhz FSB
256 mb Graphics Card
802.11g
XP Media edition for 2200 bucks.
DVD Burner
Yeah, you get a Plastic PeeCee and all, but pound for pound (not literally) the powerbook only really stands out aesthetically. I don't believe Apple will let it stay that way for another year and a half. It may not be a "G5", but it will be a pretty smokin' dual core G4 with a sweet new design, 802.11n, dual layer burner, 6-8 hours of battery life. They'll be back on top soon.
you didn't mention the 30 min battery life ha ha
Originally posted by cubist
I think Programmer already discussed this in the Cell thread, that the Cell's processor core has a longer but stupider pipeline, etc.
Indeed:
Originally posted by Programmer in the "New Powermacs to use Cell Processor?" thread
Most operations which are slow on a consumer's machine are things which can be accelerated with VMX/SPE. The majority of other stuff is already fast enough that the Cell's 4 GHz PPE would deal with it at least as well as a 2 GHz G5... probably better because the SPEs will be taking the expensive stuff off of its shoulders.
If this is to be believed, the cell PPE at 4 GHz will destroy a G4. So the question is how much watts such a PPE needs, alone or with, say, 2 SPEs.
Originally posted by gugy
Good point.
The problem here is that most people don't really "need It" right now, so nobody wants to spend money in a machine that might get a huge improvement (G5?) sometime very soon. So, people will just wait and complain about the wait.
If you really need it now, so then go buy it the current line up.
I agree! Their are so many people sitting and complaining about the latest powerbook upgrade. The current line up is worth every penny. Since the G5 probably won't be seen till 2006, people should just shut up and be happy with what they have currently.
Originally posted by rayapple
I agree! Their are some many people sitting and complaining about the latest powerbook upgrade. The current line up is worth every penny. Since the G5 probably won't be seen till 2006, people should just shut up and be happy with what they have currently.
my sentiments exactly
First: Apple-history.com
Introduced in January 2003, The PowerMac G4 (FireWire 800) was primarily a speed bump of the G4 MDD line, although it did include several architecture enhancements. The most exciting new features were the inclusion of a single FireWire 800 port, internal support for the BlueTooth wireless standard, and support for the AirPort Extreme wireless networking system. AirPort Extreme was the Apple moniker for the 802.11g standard, which supported speeds of up to 54 Mbps and was backward compatible with existing 802.11b/AirPort devices.
The PowerMac G4 (FW800) represented the fastest and least expensive line of PowerMacs Apple had ever introduced. The 1.0 Ghz model, with 256 MB of RAM, a CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive, a 60 GB hard drive and a 64 MB NVIDIA GeForce4 MX graphics card, sold for $1499. The dual 1.25 Ghz model, with 256 MB of RAM, a CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive, an 80 GB hard drive, and a 64 MB ATI Radeon 9000 Pro graphics card, sold for $1999. The high-end dual 1.42 Ghz model, with 512 MB of RAM, a CD-RW/DVD-R drive, a 120 GB hard disk and a 64 MB ATI Radeon 9000 Pro graphics card, was a modest $2699, making it the cheapest high-end Power Mac ever.
Note the similarities:
[list=1][*] January introduction[*] Mainly speedbump, with a few architectural changes[*] New form of bluetooth
Too much to ignore, btw:
The PowerMac G4 (FireWire 800) was discontinued in June of 2003 and was replaced by the PowerMac G5.
Originally posted by Myst
Just some historical Data if anyone is interested:
First: Apple-history.com
Note the similarities:
[list=1][*] January introduction[*] Mainly speedbump, with a few architectural changes[*] New form of bluetooth
Too much to ignore, btw:
These patterns can't be applied to the PowerBook range. If Apple could make a G5 now they would. They wanted to have a G5 ready for January, that's why the update took so long. Apple will eventually get a G5 in the PowerBook but we cannot necessarily say it will happen in June. There have been no finished mobile G5 chips yet; it usually takes six months from the introduction of the chip, apparently.
Originally posted by MacCrazy
These patterns can't be applied to the PowerBook range. If Apple could make a G5 now they would. They wanted to have a G5 ready for January, that's why the update took so long. Apple will eventually get a G5 in the PowerBook but we cannot necessarily say it will happen in June. There have been no finished mobile G5 chips yet; it usually takes six months from the introduction of the chip, apparently.
........... and let's not forget about the heating issues with the G5 chip. Did the G4's have the same heating issue?
Originally posted by rayapple
........... and let's not forget about the heating issues with the G5 chip. Did the G4's have the same heating issue?
Heating is the problem (hence the need for a special G5 chip). G4s were designed as a fast processor but it was a very cool processor. The bottom of my PowerBook would tend to disagree, however! The Gs wasn't designed for the same purpose. Jobs said the the G5 was the future road-map, but the G4 was the future road-map. How long did it take to get into an iBook?! I think Apple will get a dual-core or something and call it a G5 to make it seem faster. The iMac is supposed to be a G5 but compare the bus to that of the PowerMac.
ANyway how much faster will a G5 be than the current PowerBooks?
Originally posted by MacCrazy
Heating is the problem (hence the need for a special G5 chip). G4s were designed as a fast processor but it was a very cool processor. The bottom of my PowerBook would tend to disagree, however! The Gs wasn't designed for the same purpose. Jobs said the the G5 was the future road-map, but the G4 was the future road-map. How long did it take to get into an iBook?! I think Apple will get a dual-core or something and call it a G5 to make it seem faster. The iMac is supposed to be a G5 but compare the bus to that of the PowerMac.
ANyway how much faster will a G5 be than the current PowerBooks?
I have a feeling that the first generation G5 PowerBooks will have only a slight increase in speed. Not anything major like most people are waiting for.
Originally posted by rayapple
I have a feeling that the first generation G5 PowerBooks will have only a slight increase in speed. Not anything major like most people are waiting for.
A 2GHz G5 was what I was waiting for. I think that is doable. It depends how long it is though. If this thing comes out in a year it has to be more than 2. I see the dual-core as the future for the moment.