Apple releases Mac OS X 10.3.8

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  • Reply 61 of 105
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Matthew64

    Did not realize this was the "prick" forum!!!



    If there's a reason my procedure is not sound, state the reason, some technical reference from Apple and leave it at that.



    No reason to be self-righteous pricks! It you people are in IT, your users must love you.




    Yes. you are right - this is not the "prick forum".



    It is also *not* the "blind dumbasses leading the blind" forum.



    When someone more experienced than yourself is kind enough to show a more enlightened and pragmatic solution or approach to a problem - be man enough to open your mind and consider the information. Then *kindly* thank that individual for taking the time to help.



    I personally want to thank CharlesS for detailing the acutal purpose and use of "repair permissions". I *always* thought it very suspect that one had to

    "repair permissions" after software update (wasn't Apple capable of building a software update that did *everything* it was supposed to do to improve the system?). But I did it because maybe there was some voodoo that it performed in relation to the software update.



    Now I know what a laughable ritual it really is and *why*.



    If *you* are in IT, your users must *HATE* you...
  • Reply 62 of 105
    Sorry if I am being crass people but the response, or the way it was coming across, was one of arrogrance instead of solid, pro-active information.



    We post questions in these forums to find answers. If my answer was wrong, I can surely deal with that. Being basically told I am an idiot, I can't let someone get away with that crap.



    I happen to be in IT and manage 30-40 Macs and servers. And, my users love me, thank you very much, because I address there issues on their level and don't insult them.
  • Reply 63 of 105
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cmatech

    Yes. you are right - this is not the "prick forum".



    It is also *not* the "blind dumbasses leading the blind" forum.



    When someone more experienced than yourself is kind enough to show a more enlightened and pragmatic solution or approach to a problem - be man enough to open your mind and consider the information. Then *kindly* thank that individual for taking the time to help.



    I personally want to thank CharlesS for detailing the acutal purpose and use of "repair permissions". I *always* thought it very suspect that one had to

    "repair permissions" after software update (wasn't Apple capable of building a software update that did *everything* it was supposed to do to improve the system?). But I did it because maybe there was some voodoo that it performed in relation to the software update.



    Now I know what a laughable ritual it really is and *why*.



    If *you* are in IT, your users must *HATE* you...




    OK OK Cool it guys. Right there's a difference of opinion. Just be mature adults and let it go.



    Now group hug.



    \
  • Reply 64 of 105
    Well, I've learned a lesson about software updates: Check Apple forums BEFORE downloading.



    I installed the OS X update and immediately noticed increased fan usage on my Powermac G5. So I visited the Apple website forums and there are numerous posts about strange fan behaviour. It seems to be a pervasive problem among Powermac G5 owners who have downloaded the latest OS update. The "general" consensus there is to set processor performance to high but that seems like a temporary solution at best. Anyone else out there having similar problems?



    CDP
  • Reply 65 of 105
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Matthew64

    Did not realize this was the "prick" forum!!!



    If there's a reason my procedure is not sound, state the reason, some technical reference from Apple and leave it at that.



    No reason to be self-righteous pricks! It you people are in IT, your users must love you.




    I did state the reason:



    1. All Repair Permissions does is reset the permissions of the OS files back to what they were when you originally installed the OS



    2. Just because permissions are different does not necessarily mean they are wrong, but there can be more than one set of permissions that are valid for a file, and in fact, sometimes the permissions of files in the updates make more sense than the original permissions



    3. The only way running Repair Permissions after an update would be necessary would be if Apple were distributing updates with severely FUBARed permissions



    4. Running Repair Permissions before an update doesn't affect the install process at all because Software Update runs as root, and root doesn't give two squats what the permissions are on anything. Root does what root wants.



    5. Given that you're running Repair Permissions after the update, running it before the update is just... why? You're just doing the same thing over again. It's a waste of time and accomplishes nothing.



    You know, if you were able to get a full install of 10.3.8, either by getting it bundled on a new machine or if Apple put 10.3.8 on the newest Panther CDs, and then you installed it straight rather than installing an older version of Panther and updating to 10.3.8 via software update, guess what? I'd bet that running Repair Permissions would set the permissions on your files to what they were before you ran Repair Permissions after installing the 10.3.8 update.



    If running Repair Permissions every software update were necessary, Apple would have built it into the install process like they did with prebinding (which itself is only marginally necessary).
  • Reply 66 of 105
    aslan^aslan^ Posts: 599member
    After doing some *research* on old AI posts I think I have an idea of where this whole repair permissions thing came from.



    Repair permissions was first introduced as a feature of OS 10.2 Jaguar. The first mention I saw of it was by Brad and he said something to the effect of...



    Quote:

    Disk Utility now has a "Repair Disk Permissions" which would seem to help novices who fool around with the Terminal or something and screw up their system's permissions.



    Following the release of Jaguar it appears that some people had permissions problems related to doing an "upgrade" install of Jaguar rather than the "clean" install. Although I cant find any direct reference to this effect.



    The first anecdotal reference to someone repairing permissions to improve system performance was made by GardenOfEarthlyDelights on 31 July 2002.



    Quote:

    It's been better since I ran Apple's fix permissions, but before that, I would have Mail and iTunes hang when I would quit them. Force quite would sometimes work, but I would invariably end up doing a forced restart after 10 minutes of the Beach Ball of Death?.



    After that, somenoe claimed that repairing permissions significantly improved system performance and detailed a strange procedure for doing so...



    Possible new optimizing trick



    Anyway... I just felt like looking into this whole repair permissions thing, inspired by the cargo cults.
  • Reply 67 of 105
    Thanks for all this clearing-up guys, esp. AsLan for looking up the origins of all this.



    So, in summary: if you stuff around with your computer a lot *puts his hand up* then a repair permissions might be a good part of your maintenance routine - and a good way of remembering to do this is whenever Apple releases an update (or whenever your computer crashes inexplicably).

    This may also be a good time to run the cron scripts that never run at night because there's no way that you'd leave your computer powered up all night just so that a few measly maintenance scripts can run.



    Repair permissions will almost certainly have nothing to do with the actual update itself and this is why Apple does not either include it with the installation process or mention it in the read-me for each update.



    Even better than any other concievable protection/repair method, is regularly backing up - and the updates are a good time to remember this too.



    Hope we are all 100% up-to-date now and saving minutes each update.



    Mendosi
  • Reply 68 of 105
    zozo Posts: 3,115member
    ok ok you got me. I just do repair permissions because I observed some Apple employees do it once and Jobs appeared and now I have been trying to do the same...



    But I fear if I keep "repairing" it it will fall apart and lose its magic, so, I guess I should limit myself to when there are too many splinters and the planets are properly aligned



  • Reply 69 of 105
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mendosi

    So, in summary: if you stuff around with your computer a lot *puts his hand up* then a repair permissions might be a good part of your maintenance routine



    I've got no problem with this. If you muck around with your system and fear that you might have messed some permissions up, Repair Permissions will certainly help you, as this is what it's designed for. Also, some poorly written third-party installers for crappy software might mess up the permissions on some files (although even in this case, running RP before would be a waste of time). In the case of OS updates from Apple, though, I just trust them to know what the permissions ought to be, since they make the OS. In any case, however, running Repair Permissions before the update does nothing! Don't waste your time doing this!



    I dunno, the reason this issue gets my dander up is because of conversations like this one:



    some_guy: Hi, I'm having this problem: <insert some problem that has absolutely nothing to do with permissions here> Anyone know how to fix it?



    cargo_cultist: Did you repair permissions when you installed the last software update? If not, then it's YOUR FAULT!!! Next time, make sure you repair permissions before AND after you install the update!!
  • Reply 70 of 105
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member
    Just one thing: how did you join in 1990!?
  • Reply 71 of 105
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Aquatic

    Just one thing: how did you join in 1990!?



    That's a bloody good point! How did he join in 1990????? I've had the interview a long time but I'm sure modems weren't available then.
  • Reply 72 of 105
    bergzbergz Posts: 1,045member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacCrazy

    That's a bloody good point! How did he join in 1990????? I've had the interview a long time but I'm sure modems weren't available then.



    Well, that's one more of the world's mysteries solved...



    ?Where am I??

    ?In the Village.?

    ?Who are you??

    ?The new Number Two.?

    ?Who is Number One??



    "CharlesS is."



    --B
  • Reply 73 of 105
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ZO

    Addresses an issue in which a PowerBook G4 computer would, on rare occasion, wake from sleep with a black screen and not respond to any keyboard, mouse, or trackpad input.



    Now my RevB PMG5 dual 2GHz has this symtom which it never had before in previous versions of Panther Force restart on power button needed.



    This is a fresh install from my install CD of 10.3.4 and using a combo to bring it up to speed to 10.3.8. I bought a new hard drive to software RAID, but later changed my mine and went back to a 'normal' multiple disk configuration.
  • Reply 74 of 105
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ZO

    Repair Permissions = Applications folder -> Utilities folder -> Disk Utility



    Select your hard drive and then select "repair permissions"



    Good to do once a month or so.




    Frankly and seriously speaking, WTF is Apple doing that anyone ever needs to do any permissions repairs? Of all the Unix systems out there, I've never seen any upgrades require such a task. Either Apple incorporates the "repair permissions" step in with the upgrade installer so as to hide it from the user or they correct what's causing this repairing to start with.
  • Reply 75 of 105
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DVD_Junkie

    Frankly and seriously speaking, WTF is Apple doing that anyone ever needs to do any permissions repairs? Of all the Unix systems out there, I've never seen any upgrades require such a task. Either Apple incorporates the "repair permissions" step in with the upgrade installer so as to hide it from the user or they correct what's causing this repairing to start with.



    ya i've never bothered doing that stuff when updating and and i've had absolutely no problems.
  • Reply 76 of 105
    maccrazymaccrazy Posts: 2,657member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ipodandimac

    ya i've never bothered doing that stuff when updating and and i've had absolutely no problems.



    same
  • Reply 77 of 105
    louzerlouzer Posts: 1,054member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DVD_Junkie

    Frankly and seriously speaking, WTF is Apple doing that anyone ever needs to do any permissions repairs? Of all the Unix systems out there, I've never seen any upgrades require such a task. Either Apple incorporates the "repair permissions" step in with the upgrade installer so as to hide it from the user or they correct what's causing this repairing to start with.



    The difference is that, except for OS X, all the other Unix systems out there aren't meant for the dumb-ass desktop user who doesn't know what they're doing. In linux, if you go in and start mucking around with the system, and you screw up some permissions (you know, you mistakenly add a -R when chown or chmod to /etc or something), you fsck'd. How do you set it back? How do you fix doing something this stupid? Well, in OS X, because anyone can do this, they've stuck in an option to put back the main file and dir settings the way they were when it was installed.



    Apple needed to add the 'feature' (as they do with a lot of things) just so normal users can fix things on their own if something gets muffed.
  • Reply 78 of 105
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacCrazy

    That's a bloody good point! How did he join in 1990????? I've had the interview a long time but I'm sure modems weren't available then.



    Time travel.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by DVD_Junkie:

    Frankly and seriously speaking, WTF is Apple doing that anyone ever needs to do any permissions repairs? Of all the Unix systems out there, I've never seen any upgrades require such a task. Either Apple incorporates the "repair permissions" step in with the upgrade installer so as to hide it from the user or they correct what's causing this repairing to start with.




    That's the whole point - it's not necessary. It makes Apple look bad to suggest that it is.
  • Reply 79 of 105
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacCrazy

    That's a bloody good point! How did he join in 1990????? I've had the interview a long time but I'm sure modems weren't available then.



    Modems have been around since the 60s. The Bell 103 (1962) was the first commercial one. 300baud. 300bps. It took until 1986 before a 56kbps modem was invented. (And actually, modems were first used by Air Civil Defense and the Air Force during the 50s to transmit data between crisis centers.)
  • Reply 80 of 105
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    I think the average modem was maybe 1200 baud at that point. I got a 2400 baud modem with my first self-purchased Mac in '93. Ah, Gopher, we hardly knew ye.
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