AMD's dual-core Opteron due this month
AMD DUE to release Dual core Opteron this month.
I was wondering Why Alienware has not released a Nforce4 SLI version of their DCC workstation using the Opteron processors. After getting a few email replies from them about it, I believe this is the reason. They were not about to release a Nforce4 Pro SLI Opteron board until AMD finished the Dual core versions of the Opteron processor. Alienware are smart enough to wait it out.
Lets hope Apple is as smart at WWDC, and supports SLI, and Dual Core Processors with an ODMC. Apple has to have been waiting on something. Benchmarks from the PC side will kill the PowerMac unless they do. It will look like a play toy comparatively.
Quote:
AMD will announce at an event on April 21 in New York that the first dual-core Opteron processors are available, months ahead of schedule, sources familiar with the situation said. The Sunnyvale, Calif.-based chipmaker also is expected to announce its dual-core chips for personal computers will go on sale in June.
In an attempt to encourage rapid adoption, AMD will sell some of the new chips at the same prices as the corresponding single-core models they'll replace, a source familiar with the products said. The company is expected to first release its high-end and more expensive 800 series Opterons, which are geared for servers with four or eight chips, with lower-end 200 series models coming in May.
The Opteron availability date is ahead of the company's summer launch schedule, but AMD Chief Executive Hector Ruiz hinted that manufacturing was going well, saying in February, "Sometimes things happen and you might do better."
AMD didn't immediately respond to requests for comment late Thursday.
AMD will announce at an event on April 21 in New York that the first dual-core Opteron processors are available, months ahead of schedule, sources familiar with the situation said. The Sunnyvale, Calif.-based chipmaker also is expected to announce its dual-core chips for personal computers will go on sale in June.
In an attempt to encourage rapid adoption, AMD will sell some of the new chips at the same prices as the corresponding single-core models they'll replace, a source familiar with the products said. The company is expected to first release its high-end and more expensive 800 series Opterons, which are geared for servers with four or eight chips, with lower-end 200 series models coming in May.
The Opteron availability date is ahead of the company's summer launch schedule, but AMD Chief Executive Hector Ruiz hinted that manufacturing was going well, saying in February, "Sometimes things happen and you might do better."
AMD didn't immediately respond to requests for comment late Thursday.
I was wondering Why Alienware has not released a Nforce4 SLI version of their DCC workstation using the Opteron processors. After getting a few email replies from them about it, I believe this is the reason. They were not about to release a Nforce4 Pro SLI Opteron board until AMD finished the Dual core versions of the Opteron processor. Alienware are smart enough to wait it out.
Lets hope Apple is as smart at WWDC, and supports SLI, and Dual Core Processors with an ODMC. Apple has to have been waiting on something. Benchmarks from the PC side will kill the PowerMac unless they do. It will look like a play toy comparatively.
Comments
latest rumors suggest this month, tho nothing substantiated at this point, so i'll believe it when i see it.
but honestly, i don't think apple is in deep trouble as long as IBM can deliver MP by MWSF 2006. apple's been way behind in CPU power before (500 G4), and stayed on the map simply due to the quality of the user experience (software) and dedication of user base (ie: our fanaticism).
given the quality of tech in the G5, and the promise of dual core, HT 2.0, etc, i expect we'll have some decent hardware to drool over by next MWSF. and tiger + unannounced extras, both soft and hard, should distract the main user base til then.
SLI= %50 probability depending on how Apple values it.
ODMC- 0% probability. Th 970mp would be roughly 122mm^2 there's no room to add more transistors for a mem controller. Perhaps at 65nm.
What's happening here is a testament to what I've always felt. When technology and innovation happens it's generally happening across the board. Rarely do we see a company with a product truly before its time.
Bring on the Dual Core Powermacs!!
I would like to think that Apple will use the best available PPC dual cores
to take on the competition, so I'm still hoping we see a Power5 based
machine before too long.
Back to yardwork!
SLI would be nice but it's primarily a gaming technology as it always has been thus I don't expect much impact and if you can get a minimum 30fps from a card then that's all that's needed.
Ondie mem controllers are nice...if your app suffers with slow memory latency. It's not the end all be all of tech though and cost you extra transistors.
Tiger with its fine grain locking and support for 4 or more cores is going to be the thing that seperates Macs from PCs once again.
The only reason why Apple is losing in benches is because no one has devised a benchmark that shows how well a computer can multitask. Anyone who's been on a DP Powermac knows that it's more like a Tugboat than a Speedboat. Load it down and it still chugs along.
Powermacs are for heavy lifting folks. That's why they call'em Power.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Tiger with its fine grain locking and support for 4 or more cores...
What are you talking about
From Tiger's UNIX:
Tiger?s state-of-the-art kernel features improved SMP scalability and 64-bit virtual memory.
.
.
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Symmetric multiprocessing (SMP) augmented by support for multithreading.
From Tiger's Core Image:
For computers without a programmable GPU, Core Image dynamically optimizes for the CPU, automatically tuning for Velocity Engine and multiple processors as appropriate.
Now one can endlessly argue that they mean dual processor systems, but... come on
I think it's possible that Apple is going to have a Power5 derivative dual core processor when PowerMacs are announced. I think Apple, and IBM were both aware that they were falling way behind of AMD, and they are going to G6 the PowerMac, and develop low power G5's for the rest of the line. That is about the only thing they can do to stay in the playing field. Otherwise they are going to be the Packard Bell of 2005.
Originally posted by onlooker
It will look like a play toy comparatively.
First off, very few people actually care about benchmarks. Most of the ones who do are gamers.
Secondly, the Opteron is so, so unimpressive. Ultimately what matters in the high-end market is price per performance per watt, and I can promise that IBM already has that title. It's extremely likely that the PPC platform will continue to evolve as well, so whether or not AMD is "ahead" for couple of months is inconsequential when taking into consideration the vastness of the industry.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Well the thing is despite the hype from the fanboys. Windows is NOT a good SMP system. So even if they do have Dual Core the OS isn't as optimized for them as it could be. Neither are the 3rd party apps.
...
That's why these machines (from HP and IBM) - which will be ready to ship right around the announcement time! - will mostly run 64-bit Linux. Opterons are server processors, and Windows is disappearing in the server world.
Apple will have to move fast to keep ahead of the Linux/AMD64 tidal wave. Windows will fade more slowly from the desktop; but loss of mindshare always precedes loss of market share, so the decline of Windows is inevitable. Whether Apple will capture some of that market share depends on how quickly they advance the PowerMac and make it a compelling platform for software developers.
Note that the AMD Opteron/Athlong 64-Bit procs only support 40-bit physical and 48-bit virtual address for memory
This means you have something like 256 Terabytes of addressable memory. Note that the G5 is a full 64-bit for 18 Exabytes of memory.
I agree with Onlooker that SLI is something Apple has to have. I can wait for an ODMC that hopefully suppors Rambus XDR memory as well but IBM is in absolutely no danger from the AMD chips.
If Apple can give us SLI and say Hypertransport 2.0 put to good use then we'll be fine. I'm looking forward to the move to 65nm. I'm hoping that comes with ODMC and SMT per core. Then things really start to get fun.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
First off, very few people actually care about benchmarks.
the Opteron is so, so unimpressive.
Oh really?
And secondly. I see nothing unimpressive about the fastest desktop processor made. I'd like to be that unimpressive.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I have a hard time even calling an AMD Processor 64-bit
Note that the AMD Opteron/Athlong 64-Bit procs only support 40-bit physical and 48-bit virtual address for memory
This means you have something like 256 Terabytes of addressable memory. Note that the G5 is a full 64-bit for 18 Exabytes of memory.
This doesn't really matter since nobody knows how to use 48 bits worth of address space and very few can afford 40 bits worth of physical memory. The 970FX only supports 42-bit physical addresses according to the manual.
Of course, when future AMD64 and PowerPC processors support the full 64 bits, all the software will run unchanged. Let's compete based on features that people actually use.
True but it's important for people to realize that the PPC G5 isn't some lame attempt of a microprocessor. I grow weary of the blathering about Opterons. IBM basically slapped the G5 together and it competes with Intel and AMD quite easily. Imagine if they actually wanted to do a little damage.
Intel tried to hop up into the rarified air that IBM lives in and failed miserably with the Itanium. AMD can barely beat Intel so what does that say?
Apple is in good enough hands with IBM. I think IBM was sufficiently embarrassed by their fab problems but I see no reason to suspect that Powermacs will be behind the ball in speeds. In fact I expect to see a surprise or two with the nextgen PMs.
I'll tell you one thing about the Dual Core Opterons. They will blaze at popping up adware adverstisements
All go...no show.
Originally posted by onlooker
Oh really?
Then the question is: what do you do that requires you to have the "latest," even if it's upstaged in 3 months?
But the real reason why I'm responding is because of your blatant misquote. The Opteron is unimpressive because it doesn't bring anything new to the table. It's purely evolutionary. Now, the latest from IBM is largely evolutionary as well, but at the very least IBM is pioneering new fabrication techniques, etc, and has the foresight to plan a roadmap based on milestones developed in pioneering research. AMD has made a business of delivering often inelegant technology whose short lived market presence draws from its risky engineering and generally poor support.
I'd be happy to entertain your rebuttal, but I don't guess that it will enlighten me past what I already know.
Originally posted by onlooker
hardly anything, and just about everything must mean the same thing in your world.
http://www.barefeats.com/macvpc.html
Seems to me the Powermac holds its own against the top of the line windows machines to me. It wins some and it loses some but you couldn't say it really gets beat all around by anything.
for running a LINUX server, but your average hardcore gamer won't
be running LINUX games.
Your average office worker doesn't need all that much computer
to run Microsoft office and I doubt we'll see even the cut down AMD 200 series in your run of the mill $600. office network desktop.
How much good will a dual core AMD workstation be when many corporate users are still running Windows 2000 and NT?
And what will all those people do when Internet Explorer 7 no longer supports Windows 2000???
The greater looming headache for Windows users will be how much they are willing to spend on ANY new pro workstation
BEFORE Microsoft releases Longhorn.
Then how much will those users have to spend updating and replacing
ALL their exisiting software, hardware, licensing and training to meet Longhorn compatibility requirements?
At least the next generation Apple workstations will come ready to roll
with OSX Tiger in the tank.
Originally posted by onlooker
I think it's possible that Apple is going to have a Power5 derivative dual core processor when PowerMacs are announced. I think Apple, and IBM were both aware that they were falling way behind of AMD, and they are going to G6 the PowerMac, and develop low power G5's for the rest of the line.
You know it perhaps, but according to the evidence about the 970MP chip that had leaked not long ago, the probability to see a Power5-derived processor in the Power Macs is near zero for this update. Next year maybe.