According to an anonymous report, Apple and ATI have been in talks about either creating or purchasing a Game Development unit.
The purpose of such a division would presumably be to create compelling games for the Mac platform to help attract more PC users to switch to the Mac platform.
Such a move would not be uncharateristic for Apple, as their decision to create Safari as well as many of their iApps were in part to fill a void not provided by 3rd party developers on the Mac platform.
Apple does appear serious about improving gaming performance on the Mac. Recent reports noted that Apple, ATI and NVidia are actively recruiting developers to improve OpenGL performance.
Also, i have been reading that Apple may see SLI as a hack of sorts, and is more interested in new dual core or dual chip video cards from ATI/Nvidia.
Seems to me the Powermac holds its own against the top of the line windows machines to me. It wins some and it loses some but you couldn't say it really gets beat all around by anything.
It seems to me it had a good score at one very Mac friendly site on one test.
I wouldn't say it holds it's own that well. I have to wonder how many applications, and tests they had to siphon through to find that one score.
Quote:
How much good will a dual core AMD workstation be when many corporate users are still running Windows 2000 and NT?
I'm talking about pro workstations not corporate terminals. How many of you need that kind of power for word?
mikenap, I don't know where you got that story from, but it's the best news I've heard in a long time.
Any chance in hell of Apple beating the Wintel world to dual cores?
I don't think so. I remember having read the last days that there are already benchmarks for the new dual core processors from Intel, which rather means that the x86 world is almost ready to hit the market.
But at the end it does not matter so much. It seems that the big players in the processor technology are all going dual core in a matter of months at the most. Well, we are talking mostly about desktop or relatively inexpensive systems, since IBM has already dual core designs for quite some time now. The fact that Apple is so "late" in the game, despite the strategic advantage of having IBM on their side, is perhaps related more to market, demand and pricing rather than to technical issues. Apple has certainly learned some lessons from NEXT, when the later produced systems much ahead of their time.
I don't think so. I remember having read the last days that there are already benchmarks for the new dual core processors from Intel, which rather means that the x86 world is almost ready to hit the market.
But at the end it does not matter so much. It seems that the big players in the processor technology are all going dual core in a matter of months at the most. Well, we are talking mostly about desktop or relatively inexpensive systems, since IBM has already dual core designs for quite some time now. The fact that Apple is so "late" in the game, despite the strategic advantage of having IBM on their side, is perhaps related more to market, demand and pricing rather than to technical issues. Apple has certainly learned some lessons from NEXT, when the later produced systems much ahead of their time.
I think IBM should produce the better dual core processors out of the bunch. They have gone through all the trial and error already many times over. They should also yield pretty well from what they have learned already.
Also, i have been reading that Apple may see SLI as a hack of sorts, and is more interested in new dual core or dual chip video cards from ATI/Nvidia.
Where did you read that? I would be concerned about that because if Apple sees dual cards as a hack I wouldn't expect them to release 2x dual core powerMacs. If they have dual cores that would take care of their second processor so they would probably only release a single processor slot Dual core PowerMac.
That would put them even further behind in the future because when they have dual core graphics processors, SLI will still exist, and people will have dual cores on dual cards. I can see the future slipping away already. I have no idea why they would consider it a hack though. SLI is an elegant way of using some of the extra space in the majority of PC's IMO. Although Apple for some reason has a giant tower their space is fairly limited. It sounds more like a cop out to me. They don't give you half as many extra options for expandability as PC's do.
I don't think so. I remember having read the last days that there are already benchmarks for the new dual core processors from Intel, which rather means that the x86 world is almost ready to hit the market. ...
I don't think so either. AMD doesn't care about Apple at all, but they care about beating Intel. Intel has nothing ready to ship. AMD is going to embarrass them big-time by having dual-core Opterons shipping - and HP shipping machines using them - on the day of the announcement. You will be able to buy a dual-core-Opteron computer this month.
(edit) I don't see what SLI has to do with this. Even in the PC world, SLI is considered a gaming feature, and PC gaming is dying out.
Where did you read that? I would be concerned about that because if Apple sees dual cards as a hack I wouldn't expect them to release 2x dual core powerMacs. If they have dual cores that would take care of their second processor so they would probably only release a single processor slot Dual core PowerMac.
I consider SLI GPUs a hack as well, and this does not equate to dual core CPUs. I would much rather see a multi-GPU configuration with a common frontend so that it appears to the hardware system as one extremely fast GPU, instead of the driver having to deal with it (increasing CPU overhead and bus traffic). I'm a bit mystified why nVidia hasn't done this... but it is probably just because they don't want to invest the effort the build that hardware because the potential market is too limited.
(edit) I don't see what SLI has to do with this. Even in the PC world, SLI is considered a gaming feature, and PC gaming is dying out.
SLI is not considered a gaming feature only if your interested in a Pro DCC workstation. SLI gains it's entrance into the main stream because it can be used to create an unmatchable gaming machine, but in use screen rendering of every other frame between two cards will be more useful using Maya, and a couple of Quadros than you could imagine.
SLI is not considered a gaming feature only if your interested in a Pro DCC workstation. SLI gains it's entrance into the main stream because it can be used to create an unmatchable gaming machine, but in use screen rendering of every other frame between two cards will be more useful using Maya, and a couple of Quadros than you could imagine.
In other words, a great way for Apple to make its way into the world of high-powered 3D machines, or...?
I just think it should be left up to the buyer. If they need it ore not. Not having it available at all sucks.
i think programmer hit this point on the head. ultimately, it is left up to the buyers conceptually. ie: the perceived market needs to be a fair bit larger than the cost of R&D and distribution, or no one will invest in it.
remember steve's NeXT cubes? i remember pining for one when they first came out. but there was no way i was going to shell out for one at the price point. kinda like mac towers in the quadra days.
SLI seems most useful for games, since GPUs don't raytrace. Most production 3D renders are raytraced, and many test renders are raytraced as well, since it's the only way to get a really good idea of what the lighting is going to look like.
The crazy thing is that 3D modeling doesn't require all that much computer as long as you're not using subdivision surfaces, which are more of a RAM drain than anything else.
I just think it should be left up to the buyer. If they need it ore not. Not having it available at all sucks.
I have a feeling, even if apple did release SLI and dual 3ghzMP processors, You'd still bitch and not buy one... then it'd be too much money, or No blu-ray, or tower too big, or no 2nd optical drive, or no big audio card to stick in there, or the graphics card isn't the absolute fastest on the PC side, ETC ETC ETC BLAH BLAH BLAH. I remember you bitching about them not having a high end card when the rev b macs came out, then they released a 6800ultra at WWDC, How much more high end can you get? The quadro is almost the exact same card with different drivers!
Comments
As it is now hardly anything beats the dual 2.5Ghz G5.
At the top of the heap Apple still do pretty well, but pretty much everything beats a single 1.8GHz G5. (Except Celerons
According to an anonymous report, Apple and ATI have been in talks about either creating or purchasing a Game Development unit.
The purpose of such a division would presumably be to create compelling games for the Mac platform to help attract more PC users to switch to the Mac platform.
Such a move would not be uncharateristic for Apple, as their decision to create Safari as well as many of their iApps were in part to fill a void not provided by 3rd party developers on the Mac platform.
Apple does appear serious about improving gaming performance on the Mac. Recent reports noted that Apple, ATI and NVidia are actively recruiting developers to improve OpenGL performance.
Also, i have been reading that Apple may see SLI as a hack of sorts, and is more interested in new dual core or dual chip video cards from ATI/Nvidia.
Originally posted by Algol
http://www.barefeats.com/macvpc.html
Seems to me the Powermac holds its own against the top of the line windows machines to me. It wins some and it loses some but you couldn't say it really gets beat all around by anything.
It seems to me it had a good score at one very Mac friendly site on one test.
I wouldn't say it holds it's own that well. I have to wonder how many applications, and tests they had to siphon through to find that one score.
How much good will a dual core AMD workstation be when many corporate users are still running Windows 2000 and NT?
I'm talking about pro workstations not corporate terminals. How many of you need that kind of power for word?
mikenap, I don't know where you got that story from, but it's the best news I've heard in a long time.
http://page2.macrumors.com/
Any chance in hell of Apple beating the Wintel world to dual cores?
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Any chance in hell of Apple beating the Wintel world to dual cores?
I don't think so. I remember having read the last days that there are already benchmarks for the new dual core processors from Intel, which rather means that the x86 world is almost ready to hit the market.
But at the end it does not matter so much. It seems that the big players in the processor technology are all going dual core in a matter of months at the most. Well, we are talking mostly about desktop or relatively inexpensive systems, since IBM has already dual core designs for quite some time now. The fact that Apple is so "late" in the game, despite the strategic advantage of having IBM on their side, is perhaps related more to market, demand and pricing rather than to technical issues. Apple has certainly learned some lessons from NEXT, when the later produced systems much ahead of their time.
Originally posted by PB
I don't think so. I remember having read the last days that there are already benchmarks for the new dual core processors from Intel, which rather means that the x86 world is almost ready to hit the market.
But at the end it does not matter so much. It seems that the big players in the processor technology are all going dual core in a matter of months at the most. Well, we are talking mostly about desktop or relatively inexpensive systems, since IBM has already dual core designs for quite some time now. The fact that Apple is so "late" in the game, despite the strategic advantage of having IBM on their side, is perhaps related more to market, demand and pricing rather than to technical issues. Apple has certainly learned some lessons from NEXT, when the later produced systems much ahead of their time.
I think IBM should produce the better dual core processors out of the bunch. They have gone through all the trial and error already many times over. They should also yield pretty well from what they have learned already.
Originally posted by mikenap
Also, i have been reading that Apple may see SLI as a hack of sorts, and is more interested in new dual core or dual chip video cards from ATI/Nvidia.
Where did you read that? I would be concerned about that because if Apple sees dual cards as a hack I wouldn't expect them to release 2x dual core powerMacs. If they have dual cores that would take care of their second processor so they would probably only release a single processor slot Dual core PowerMac.
That would put them even further behind in the future because when they have dual core graphics processors, SLI will still exist, and people will have dual cores on dual cards. I can see the future slipping away already. I have no idea why they would consider it a hack though. SLI is an elegant way of using some of the extra space in the majority of PC's IMO. Although Apple for some reason has a giant tower their space is fairly limited. It sounds more like a cop out to me. They don't give you half as many extra options for expandability as PC's do.
Originally posted by PB
I don't think so. I remember having read the last days that there are already benchmarks for the new dual core processors from Intel, which rather means that the x86 world is almost ready to hit the market. ...
I don't think so either. AMD doesn't care about Apple at all, but they care about beating Intel. Intel has nothing ready to ship. AMD is going to embarrass them big-time by having dual-core Opterons shipping - and HP shipping machines using them - on the day of the announcement. You will be able to buy a dual-core-Opteron computer this month.
(edit) I don't see what SLI has to do with this. Even in the PC world, SLI is considered a gaming feature, and PC gaming is dying out.
Originally posted by cubist
... and PC gaming is dying out.
it is? no it aint. gaming is bigger then ever, PC gaming included.
(sorry to change topic)
Originally posted by onlooker
Where did you read that? I would be concerned about that because if Apple sees dual cards as a hack I wouldn't expect them to release 2x dual core powerMacs. If they have dual cores that would take care of their second processor so they would probably only release a single processor slot Dual core PowerMac.
I consider SLI GPUs a hack as well, and this does not equate to dual core CPUs. I would much rather see a multi-GPU configuration with a common frontend so that it appears to the hardware system as one extremely fast GPU, instead of the driver having to deal with it (increasing CPU overhead and bus traffic). I'm a bit mystified why nVidia hasn't done this... but it is probably just because they don't want to invest the effort the build that hardware because the potential market is too limited.
Originally posted by cubist
(edit) I don't see what SLI has to do with this. Even in the PC world, SLI is considered a gaming feature, and PC gaming is dying out.
SLI is not considered a gaming feature only if your interested in a Pro DCC workstation. SLI gains it's entrance into the main stream because it can be used to create an unmatchable gaming machine, but in use screen rendering of every other frame between two cards will be more useful using Maya, and a couple of Quadros than you could imagine.
Originally posted by onlooker
SLI is not considered a gaming feature only if your interested in a Pro DCC workstation. SLI gains it's entrance into the main stream because it can be used to create an unmatchable gaming machine, but in use screen rendering of every other frame between two cards will be more useful using Maya, and a couple of Quadros than you could imagine.
In other words, a great way for Apple to make its way into the world of high-powered 3D machines, or...?
Originally posted by onlooker
I just think it should be left up to the buyer. If they need it ore not. Not having it available at all sucks.
i think programmer hit this point on the head. ultimately, it is left up to the buyers conceptually. ie: the perceived market needs to be a fair bit larger than the cost of R&D and distribution, or no one will invest in it.
remember steve's NeXT cubes? i remember pining for one when they first came out. but there was no way i was going to shell out for one at the price point. kinda like mac towers in the quadra days.
The crazy thing is that 3D modeling doesn't require all that much computer as long as you're not using subdivision surfaces, which are more of a RAM drain than anything else.
Originally posted by cubist
I don't think so either. AMD doesn't care about Apple at all, but they care about beating Intel. Intel has nothing ready to ship.
Actually, Intel has been shipping dual core chips to server based customers for a few months now. They just haven't announced it to the public.
Originally posted by onlooker
I just think it should be left up to the buyer. If they need it ore not. Not having it available at all sucks.
I have a feeling, even if apple did release SLI and dual 3ghzMP processors, You'd still bitch and not buy one... then it'd be too much money, or No blu-ray, or tower too big, or no 2nd optical drive, or no big audio card to stick in there, or the graphics card isn't the absolute fastest on the PC side, ETC ETC ETC BLAH BLAH BLAH. I remember you bitching about them not having a high end card when the rev b macs came out, then they released a 6800ultra at WWDC, How much more high end can you get? The quadro is almost the exact same card with different drivers!
Originally posted by emig647
Actually, Intel has been shipping dual core chips to server based customers for a few months now. They just haven't announced it to the public.
Looks like they will be soon:
http://news.com.com/Intel+to+release...l?tag=nefd.top
If Intel and AMD are able to get dual core chips out, I can't see IBM being far behind.