Remember you can BTO the graphics cards of "your" choice. Apple has to boil things down to the lowest common denom. Not everyone needs a 9800/6800 GPU.
May we have a disagreement here? I somehow try to understand the pricing scheme for the new Power Macs, since dual core is not yet a hot thing in the x86 world, but the graphics options are undoubtedly the weakest part in this update.
Why needs he to amaze? Anyway, Tiger is not already amazing?
I agree Tiger is amazing, but is old news now. He will be announcing something. That's the general expectation. He's not going there just to talk about Tiger for the third time. Just look at the keynote history and you'll see that in the last few years he always intruduces products at MWSF and WWDC.
May we have a disagreement here? I somehow try to understand the pricing scheme for the new Power Macs, since dual core is not yet a hot thing in the x86 world, but the graphics options are undoubtedly the weakest part in this update.
What do you mean it's not hot? (dual core) Have you tried ordering a SLI Nvidia Nforce4 Pro Opteron Motherboard from anywhere? Everyone is sold out. The chips are not available for a few more weeks, and all the good boards (tyan, and asus, others) have been gobbled up.
No it's not hot, but for some reason they are all on back order now.
The new Macs are blah...but there's no need for the vitriol and invective. There's not a person on these boards that cannot make great use of the new Powermacs. Not one!
Ok you are correct, you happily waltz into an apple store...plunk down 3k like an idiot and bring a nice G5 back with you that will do your every need...THEN 6-9 months later apple comes out with the update that was due LAST year and you realize that you are indeed a complete fool.
If you buy this computer now will it serve your needs? Yes it probably will but there is no way im buying a 3k comp that does not last me at least 4 years.
EDIT: Corrected for the english proffesor below...because you know this is a discussion list for english proffesors.
FYI im not insulting anyone in particular in my post, except those that go and buy this system of course.
Well, I mean that we need to wait several months, most likely more than a year, to see production ramping up alongside large scale adoption and substantial price drops in the x86 dual core front.
Oh, boy. jsnuff1, if you're going to insult people, the least you could do is spell "idiot" right.
He does have a point, and I have to say that this is definitely not going to give apple some magical boost in PowerMac sales either. (it's going to hurt them) If Apple was trying to look for an excuse to drop the pro machines, and cater to kiddies based on poor sales of their pro line up. (which may be what they are doing) This last update would do it. After this they will be able to "claim" that the superior design of the iMac, iBook, eMac mac mini, and iPod have engulfed all powermac sales. They could also "claim" that the increased # of iMac, and Mac Mini sales show that the powermac users have switched over to its superior design, and they will discontinue the line, and they have no more need for the PowerMac because all it's users are using their other machines. Would you be surprised if that happened?
They could also "claim" that the increased # of iMac, and Mac Mini sales show that the powermac users have switched over to its superior design, and they will discontinue the line, and they have no more need for the PowerMac because all it's users are using their other machines. Would you be surprised if that happened?
Do you mean what I do understand? Drop the Power Mac line altogether?
Oh, please. The PowerMac line dies while Apple continues to update pro apps like FCP and Shake? Let's all take a serious break from the tremulous hand-wringing and dodgy pessimism. (Or maybe I just didn't detect the ludicrous irony ... )
Also ...
This English professor (yet another) notes the spelling of "professor."
I suspect that we will all look back at this update as akin to the 1.25 dual G4 bump to dual G4 1.42. It was disappointing and insufficient but followed with a major step. The larger issues, as you all have pointed out, have to do with more than just CPU speed: PCI-E, hard drive configurations sufficient for robust HDV editing, cooling requirements, and the like. Apple's next revision needs to address these matters head-on.
Apple made a big mistake by not making the dual 2GHz machine the low-end, and selling it for $1,499, if they were truly concerned about sales. Why are these systems so G.D. expensive?
I wonder if Bang & Olfusen goes through this kind of fan boy forum abuse when they come out with anything new. I think you guys have too many expectations from a company that has chosen such an exotic expensive CPU for its system. Compared to other PC manufactures that have a plethora of choices, Apple is at the mercy of one. While this might be a mute point when discussing things like PCI-E and better storage capabilities, it?s still the main bases on their slow updates. Since Steve?s return, Apples focus has turned to putting out cute boutique computers with complimenting accessories (i.e. iPod) for the home user. The days of Scully are no more; the bazillion different models to choose from have been replaced by the ?take it or leave it? line up. We must drop this fantasy idea that Apple can compete on a hardware level with other PC manufactures. Except that Apple is the B&O of the industry, great design, easy to use and best of all, out of the reach of your average God fearing American. This might sound a bit portentous but I like feeling special, if not for a moment. When I see a guy next to me on the train to work typing away on his Gericom notebook from Walmart I can?t help but feel superior.
Cutting edge users will never be happy with a Mac when it comes to the hardware. Try focusing on the USE of machine, focus on the APPEAL of the metal in the corner of your flat next to the B&O stereo.
<edit>Oh yeah, one more thing, if anything else be happy in knowing that Apple users are smarter then PC users -> linky . See don't you feel better with that new Powermac purchase, your I.Q. just got bumped up 10 points. </edit>
EDIT: Corrected for the english proffesor below...because you know this is a discussion list for english proffesors.
Sorry to ruffle your feathers, sport. Just noting the irony...
[...]
Quote:
He does have a point, and I have to say that this is definitely not going to give apple some magical boost in PowerMac sales either. (it's going to hurt them)
Will it hurt them? I suspect that you're right, and this isn't going to give them a sales boost. I think if they're lucky, their numbers will be in line with last year's numbers with these machines. So, yeah, if you define "hurt" as treading water, then it will hurt them. Personally, I don't think things will be all that bad-- despite what the chicken littles in this and other threads say about the new machines, they're still competitive with the high side of typical PC offerings. Apple's not going to do great with these machines this revision cycle, but they'll do OK.
I don't think I've seen anyone who's criticized the "doom and gloom" contingent in this (or any other thread) really heap praise on these machines. All (most of us) are saying is that this is an OK update. Not a great one, just OK. You guys, on the other hand, are implying that it's the end of the world... Death and disaster! Pestilence! Steve Jobs biting the heads off human babies! Oh the humanity! WHEN WILL IT ALL END?!?!?! <faints>
[...]
Quote:
I suspect that we will all look back at this update as akin to the 1.25 dual G4 bump to dual G4 1.42. It was disappointing and insufficient but followed with a major step. The larger issues, as you all have pointed out, have to do with more than just CPU speed: PCI-E, hard drive configurations sufficient for robust HDV editing, cooling requirements, and the like. Apple's next revision needs to address these matters head-on.
I think this hits it dead on. The update is just... meh. The hardware doesn't really stand out from the crowd in any particular way (other than the fact that the entire line is comprised of dual proc machines), but they'll get the job done. If you want to be wowed, wait for the next revision.
Cutting edge users will never be happy with a Mac when it comes to the hardware. Try focusing on the USE of machine, focus on the APPEAL of the metal in the corner of your flat next to the B&O stereo.
Amen... but I don't have a B&O stereo. (If I did, I'd sell it to pay for the dual 1.8 I just bought! )
[Edit-- oops... that was supposed to be an edit, not a reply!]
He does have a point, and I have to say that this is definitely not going to give apple some magical boost in PowerMac sales either. (it's going to hurt them) If Apple was trying to look for an excuse to drop the pro machines, and cater to kiddies based on poor sales of their pro line up. (which may be what they are doing) This last update would do it. After this they will be able to "claim" that the superior design of the iMac, iBook, eMac mac mini, and iPod have engulfed all powermac sales. They could also "claim" that the increased # of iMac, and Mac Mini sales show that the powermac users have switched over to its superior design, and they will discontinue the line, and they have no more need for the PowerMac because all it's users are using their other machines. Would you be surprised if that happened?
Pro's who utilize the pro apps line will always buy PM's (and perhaps XServes for rendering). The fan boys out there who want the "biggest and best systems", with the highest numbers probably come secondary in Apple's targets.
Pro's who utilize the pro apps line will always buy PM's (and perhaps XServes for rendering). The fan boys out there who want the "biggest and best systems", with the highest numbers probably come secondary in Apple's targets.
What about us who just want to buy cool and expensive computers, where do we fall. Where?s my 25th anniversary Mac for 10,000? Sure the loathly simply minded non-pro-consumer gets a friggen sock for his/her iPod but where?s my sock, my unnecessary gizmo for my pro needs, like uuuhh I don?t know, maybe PCI-E!
You guys, on the other hand, are implying that it's the end of the world... Death and disaster! Pestilence! Steve Jobs biting the heads off human babies! Oh the humanity! WHEN WILL IT ALL END?!?!?! <faints>
]
Haha now you got it head on my friend
::Lights himself on fire and goes jumping of a a cliff screaming::
What about us who just want to buy cool and expensive computers, where do we fall. Where?s my 25th anniversary Mac for 10,000? Sure the loathly simply minded non-pro-consumer gets a friggen sock for his/her iPod but where?s my sock, my unnecessary gizmo for my pro needs, like uuuhh I don?t know, maybe PCI-E!
I'd like to think I have a pretty good sarcasm detector, but I'm not entirely sure what to think of this. Call me stoopit!
I'm still waiting to see a handful of PCIe video cards that outpace the current AGP ones. I know they will eventually... but... at the same time the G5 was also supposed to hit 3ghz (along with AMD and Intel hitting other speeds). Theoretic speed limits are always interesting. In the short run, for Apple/IBM to redesign the motherboard to support PCIe would just bump prices, with no speed increases. To me, that sounds pretty silly.
Down the pipeline when a huge PM revision hits is when PCIe should come into play, not now.
What about us who just want to buy cool and expensive computers, where do we fall. Where?s my 25th anniversary Mac for 10,000? Sure the loathly simply minded non-pro-consumer gets a friggen sock for his/her iPod but where?s my sock, my unnecessary gizmo for my pro needs, like uuuhh I don?t know, maybe PCI-E!
Heh, just sift through some of that spam and pull out the one's labeled "cialis" and "viagra". Those should quench your need for a super-Mac.
Comments
Originally posted by gugy
What's Steve going to announce to amaze people? It must be a Powerbook G5 IMHO.
Why needs he to amaze? Anyway, Tiger is not already amazing?
Originally posted by hmurchison
Remember you can BTO the graphics cards of "your" choice. Apple has to boil things down to the lowest common denom. Not everyone needs a 9800/6800 GPU.
May we have a disagreement here? I somehow try to understand the pricing scheme for the new Power Macs, since dual core is not yet a hot thing in the x86 world, but the graphics options are undoubtedly the weakest part in this update.
Originally posted by PB
Why needs he to amaze? Anyway, Tiger is not already amazing?
I agree Tiger is amazing, but is old news now. He will be announcing something. That's the general expectation. He's not going there just to talk about Tiger for the third time. Just look at the keynote history and you'll see that in the last few years he always intruduces products at MWSF and WWDC.
Originally posted by PB
May we have a disagreement here? I somehow try to understand the pricing scheme for the new Power Macs, since dual core is not yet a hot thing in the x86 world, but the graphics options are undoubtedly the weakest part in this update.
What do you mean it's not hot? (dual core) Have you tried ordering a SLI Nvidia Nforce4 Pro Opteron Motherboard from anywhere? Everyone is sold out. The chips are not available for a few more weeks, and all the good boards (tyan, and asus, others) have been gobbled up.
No it's not hot, but for some reason they are all on back order now.
Originally posted by hmurchison
The new Macs are blah...but there's no need for the vitriol and invective. There's not a person on these boards that cannot make great use of the new Powermacs. Not one!
Ok you are correct, you happily waltz into an apple store...plunk down 3k like an idiot and bring a nice G5 back with you that will do your every need...THEN 6-9 months later apple comes out with the update that was due LAST year and you realize that you are indeed a complete fool.
If you buy this computer now will it serve your needs? Yes it probably will but there is no way im buying a 3k comp that does not last me at least 4 years.
EDIT: Corrected for the english proffesor below...because you know this is a discussion list for english proffesors.
FYI im not insulting anyone in particular in my post, except those that go and buy this system of course.
Originally posted by onlooker
What do you mean it's not hot?
Well, I mean that we need to wait several months, most likely more than a year, to see production ramping up alongside large scale adoption and substantial price drops in the x86 dual core front.
Originally posted by Gamblor
Oh, boy. jsnuff1, if you're going to insult people, the least you could do is spell "idiot" right.
He does have a point, and I have to say that this is definitely not going to give apple some magical boost in PowerMac sales either. (it's going to hurt them) If Apple was trying to look for an excuse to drop the pro machines, and cater to kiddies based on poor sales of their pro line up. (which may be what they are doing) This last update would do it. After this they will be able to "claim" that the superior design of the iMac, iBook, eMac mac mini, and iPod have engulfed all powermac sales. They could also "claim" that the increased # of iMac, and Mac Mini sales show that the powermac users have switched over to its superior design, and they will discontinue the line, and they have no more need for the PowerMac because all it's users are using their other machines.
Originally posted by onlooker
They could also "claim" that the increased # of iMac, and Mac Mini sales show that the powermac users have switched over to its superior design, and they will discontinue the line, and they have no more need for the PowerMac because all it's users are using their other machines.
Do you mean what I do understand? Drop the Power Mac line altogether?
Also ...
This English professor (yet another) notes the spelling of "professor."
I suspect that we will all look back at this update as akin to the 1.25 dual G4 bump to dual G4 1.42. It was disappointing and insufficient but followed with a major step. The larger issues, as you all have pointed out, have to do with more than just CPU speed: PCI-E, hard drive configurations sufficient for robust HDV editing, cooling requirements, and the like. Apple's next revision needs to address these matters head-on.
Cutting edge users will never be happy with a Mac when it comes to the hardware. Try focusing on the USE of machine, focus on the APPEAL of the metal in the corner of your flat next to the B&O stereo.
<edit>Oh yeah, one more thing, if anything else be happy in knowing that Apple users are smarter then PC users -> linky . See don't you feel better with that new Powermac purchase, your I.Q. just got bumped up 10 points.
EDIT: Corrected for the english proffesor below...because you know this is a discussion list for english proffesors.
Sorry to ruffle your feathers, sport. Just noting the irony...
[...]
He does have a point, and I have to say that this is definitely not going to give apple some magical boost in PowerMac sales either. (it's going to hurt them)
Will it hurt them? I suspect that you're right, and this isn't going to give them a sales boost. I think if they're lucky, their numbers will be in line with last year's numbers with these machines. So, yeah, if you define "hurt" as treading water, then it will hurt them. Personally, I don't think things will be all that bad-- despite what the chicken littles in this and other threads say about the new machines, they're still competitive with the high side of typical PC offerings. Apple's not going to do great with these machines this revision cycle, but they'll do OK.
I don't think I've seen anyone who's criticized the "doom and gloom" contingent in this (or any other thread) really heap praise on these machines. All (most of us) are saying is that this is an OK update. Not a great one, just OK. You guys, on the other hand, are implying that it's the end of the world... Death and disaster! Pestilence! Steve Jobs biting the heads off human babies! Oh the humanity! WHEN WILL IT ALL END?!?!?! <faints>
[...]
I suspect that we will all look back at this update as akin to the 1.25 dual G4 bump to dual G4 1.42. It was disappointing and insufficient but followed with a major step. The larger issues, as you all have pointed out, have to do with more than just CPU speed: PCI-E, hard drive configurations sufficient for robust HDV editing, cooling requirements, and the like. Apple's next revision needs to address these matters head-on.
I think this hits it dead on. The update is just... meh. The hardware doesn't really stand out from the crowd in any particular way (other than the fact that the entire line is comprised of dual proc machines), but they'll get the job done. If you want to be wowed, wait for the next revision.
Cutting edge users will never be happy with a Mac when it comes to the hardware. Try focusing on the USE of machine, focus on the APPEAL of the metal in the corner of your flat next to the B&O stereo.
Amen... but I don't have a B&O stereo.
[Edit-- oops... that was supposed to be an edit, not a reply!]
Originally posted by onlooker
He does have a point, and I have to say that this is definitely not going to give apple some magical boost in PowerMac sales either. (it's going to hurt them) If Apple was trying to look for an excuse to drop the pro machines, and cater to kiddies based on poor sales of their pro line up. (which may be what they are doing) This last update would do it. After this they will be able to "claim" that the superior design of the iMac, iBook, eMac mac mini, and iPod have engulfed all powermac sales. They could also "claim" that the increased # of iMac, and Mac Mini sales show that the powermac users have switched over to its superior design, and they will discontinue the line, and they have no more need for the PowerMac because all it's users are using their other machines.
Pro's who utilize the pro apps line will always buy PM's (and perhaps XServes for rendering). The fan boys out there who want the "biggest and best systems", with the highest numbers probably come secondary in Apple's targets.
Originally posted by bucci
Pro's who utilize the pro apps line will always buy PM's (and perhaps XServes for rendering). The fan boys out there who want the "biggest and best systems", with the highest numbers probably come secondary in Apple's targets.
What about us who just want to buy cool and expensive computers, where do we fall. Where?s my 25th anniversary Mac for 10,000? Sure the loathly simply minded non-pro-consumer gets a friggen sock for his/her iPod but where?s my sock, my unnecessary gizmo for my pro needs, like uuuhh I don?t know, maybe PCI-E!
Originally posted by Gamblor
[B]
You guys, on the other hand, are implying that it's the end of the world... Death and disaster! Pestilence! Steve Jobs biting the heads off human babies! Oh the humanity! WHEN WILL IT ALL END?!?!?! <faints>
]
Haha now you got it head on my friend
::Lights himself on fire and goes jumping of a a cliff screaming::
Originally posted by Relic
What about us who just want to buy cool and expensive computers, where do we fall. Where?s my 25th anniversary Mac for 10,000? Sure the loathly simply minded non-pro-consumer gets a friggen sock for his/her iPod but where?s my sock, my unnecessary gizmo for my pro needs, like uuuhh I don?t know, maybe PCI-E!
I'd like to think I have a pretty good sarcasm detector, but I'm not entirely sure what to think of this. Call me stoopit!
I'm still waiting to see a handful of PCIe video cards that outpace the current AGP ones. I know they will eventually... but... at the same time the G5 was also supposed to hit 3ghz (along with AMD and Intel hitting other speeds). Theoretic speed limits are always interesting. In the short run, for Apple/IBM to redesign the motherboard to support PCIe would just bump prices, with no speed increases. To me, that sounds pretty silly.
Down the pipeline when a huge PM revision hits is when PCIe should come into play, not now.
Originally posted by Relic
What about us who just want to buy cool and expensive computers, where do we fall. Where?s my 25th anniversary Mac for 10,000? Sure the loathly simply minded non-pro-consumer gets a friggen sock for his/her iPod but where?s my sock, my unnecessary gizmo for my pro needs, like uuuhh I don?t know, maybe PCI-E!
Heh, just sift through some of that spam and pull out the one's labeled "cialis" and "viagra". Those should quench your need for a super-Mac.