Do you believe that the 2.7 GHz processors were ready some time now and sitting in an Apple closet?
2.7 GHz MAY have been around for a while--I really don't think Apple would have wanted to ship a revved CPU w/o Tiger. So if they weren't available in time for MacWorld SF (say Dec), they may have just decided to wait--this is obviously a "refresh" (others have called it a "bin swap"). Apple wouldn't want to steal the thunder from Tiger, unless it was a major rev. This isn't, so they waited.
I just hope that Amazon was wrong. If the prices remain intact for the expected specifications, it would be really shame for Apple. [/B]
If this is truly a minor rev, and there is a major rev coming (late summer/early fall) then this makes perfect sense-they don't want to steal sales from that rev and this refresh is good enough to entice people who would have bought the 2.5 GHz the week before--remember, eventhough there hasn't been a rev in a while, there are still people buying 2.5 GHz PM every day?
All this is nice and good, but what about the CPU? Apple is not known to do incremental component updates, without raising a little at least the CPU clock (so much about the "MHz myth").
I don't understand the post. They ARE raising the clock.
I don't understand the post. They ARE raising the clock.
Sorry, I was not clear enough. I think the meaning of nathan22t's post is that Apple could make an update in the components even if the CPU cannot get some MHz up (so that an update would be possible a few months before). There are very few, if any, cases like that in the more recent history at least.
Why do any of you think hardware updates will come the Wednesday before Tiger?!?!?!
It'll happen quietly after Tiger or it will be the "...one more thing" at WWDC. Either way your speculation for this week is not really useful or worth wasting your time over.
Personnally I'd like a very affordable dual 2 gig system with the best gpu and archetecture available. THAT would float my boat and those of most people than 3 gig megaMac at $3k.
Sorry, I was not clear enough. I think the meaning of nathan22t's post is that Apple could make an update in the components even if the CPU cannot get some MHz up (so that an update would be possible a few months before). There are very few, if any, cases like that in the more recent history at least.
I've been saying that same thing. They could go to express without going to faster processors or dual core.
All this is nice and good, but what about the CPU? Apple is not known to do incremental component updates, without raising a little at least the CPU clock (so much about the "MHz myth").
That is fine. Then should just do the best they can with the other components whenever they upgrade the CPU. The 9600 isn't nearly the best they can do and it makes the machine look quite anemic.
A 9600 card in the Flagship of the Mac line? That's like sending the Enterprise to fight the Borg... and being stingy with the Photons.
I've been saying that same thing. They could go to express without going to faster processors or dual core.
As I mentioned in a post earlier here, if these new Power Macs have PCI Express it strongly suggests one thing IMHO. The dual core 970MP will be announced at WWDC in a new high end Mac, often referred to as the Xstation. These may be mostly quads, two 970MP chips, but may have a dual with just one 970MP.
It make no sense to upgrade the Power Mac's motherboard at this time, unless it will be selling for over six months. With an Xstation, the Power Mac can coexist along side it.
As I mentioned in a post earlier here, if these new Power Macs have PCI Express it strongly suggests one thing IMHO. The dual core 970MP will be announced at WWDC in a new high end Mac, often referred to as the Xstation. These may be mostly quads, two 970MP chips, but may have a dual with just one 970MP.
It make no sense to upgrade the Power Mac's motherboard at this time, unless it will be selling for over six months. With an Xstation, the Power Mac can coexist along side it.
An Express mother board wouldn't have to change if the new chips come out. It has nothing to do with that. If they come out with an "X Station" that would be an entirely separate machine from their normal lineup. It would have it's own MOBO if it used dual duals.
The "standard" line would probably continue with either a single dual or two single core GX';s, if they ever come out. If a dual dual came out in the standard line it would use the same MOBO. The dual cores are supposed to be based on the GX which has less power requirements.
In either case, an Express board for the standard machines wouldn't have to be changed with new chips, unless the memory controller went on die. That's probably later.
A 9600 card in the Flagship of the Mac line? That's like sending the Enterprise to fight the Borg... and being stingy with the Photons. [/B]
The 9600 is the stock card in the low-end and mid-range PowerMac models, according to the rumour. The high-end gets a 9650 (though we still don't know whether that actually exists or not), and there will be major upgrades available.
Did you actually expect Apple to ship a high-end video card stock with their towers, especially since many of them (the X850XT and 6800 Ultra being examples) take up two slots? Some people need the expansion more than they do a better frame rate in Doom 3. Even Dell's XPS Gen 4 system ships with a *128* MB X800XT (read: deliberately crippled).
To use your metaphor, shipping the PowerMac with a high-end card would be like sending the Enterprise in with a full load of photon torpedos, but having to take out half the shielding if you wanted the rest of the ship functioning normally.
There are other options available that ARE NOT available now. 1... the NVidia 6600gt. It has been admitted by NVidia that the chips in the 6800 ultra mac edition and the 6800 ultra pc edition was the same core chip. This was even reflected in availability. When the 6800 ultra was so hard to come by for the mac, it was as well for the PC. Neither card could be had at that time. NVidia makes the whole card for the mac... this has also been confirmed by NVidia. So if these chips are so similiar (drivers and firmware being the major difference), why couldn't they produce a 6600gt AGP edition (like they make for pcs).
Better yet, What happened to the 6800GT. Better yet, What happened to the 9800xt. I have a feeling the only reason the 9600's are shipping stock in the towers is because apple and ATI have a bit of a contract. BTW (the x800 only takes up 1 slot [the agp slot], no extra pci slots).
Even the 9800PRO would be a better card than the 9600xt. *shrugs*.
As far as CPU goes, we all know 2.3 has been available for quite a while (since the last XServe updates). I don't have any verifiable sources on this, but I believe the 2.7 970fx will be the same, with more optimized cooling. If i'm right, then they've had them all along.
Steve said in jan 03 "3ghz by summer" He didn't deliver last year at wwdc.
The powerbooks are at 2.7 (nearly 3)
What if at WWDC he says something like " hey last year I promised you 3ghz powermacs sorry I didn't deliver but this year I have twin 3ghz dual core powermacs!"
also twin 2.7 dual core
and twin 2.5 dual core
shipping in Sept!
yes he will hurt sales on powermacs in the short run but will get huge marketing leverage and pent up demand for the fall season.
Hey, it's a better theory than the Video Ipod at WWDC. He has got to produce something better than an Ipod and itms talk with a Tiger adoption schpiel!
Steve said in jan 03 "3ghz by summer" He didn't deliver last year at wwdc.
The powerbooks are at 2.7 (nearly 3)
What if at WWDC he says something like " hey last year I promised you 3ghz powermacs sorry I didn't deliver but this year I have twin 3ghz dual core powermacs!"
also twin 2.7 dual core
and twin 2.5 dual core
shipping in Sept!
Where is the follow-up of this nice dream? Or have you awaken after that?
Since they're having such a hard time reaching 3 GHz in the first place, I wonder why people keep hanging onto the hope of a dual core 3GHz right off the bat.
I don't think the first dual cores, whenever they come out, will be the very highest GHz chip. Nobody else is doing it that way. It's shooting your whole wad at once. Intel is up to 3.8GHz, but their first dual cores are 2.8GHz to 3.2GHz. I suspect IBM won't be any different. It just makes sense to do it that way.
Comments
Originally posted by PB
Do you believe that the 2.7 GHz processors were ready some time now and sitting in an Apple closet?
2.7 GHz MAY have been around for a while--I really don't think Apple would have wanted to ship a revved CPU w/o Tiger. So if they weren't available in time for MacWorld SF (say Dec), they may have just decided to wait--this is obviously a "refresh" (others have called it a "bin swap"). Apple wouldn't want to steal the thunder from Tiger, unless it was a major rev. This isn't, so they waited.
I just hope that Amazon was wrong. If the prices remain intact for the expected specifications, it would be really shame for Apple. [/B]
If this is truly a minor rev, and there is a major rev coming (late summer/early fall) then this makes perfect sense-they don't want to steal sales from that rev and this refresh is good enough to entice people who would have bought the 2.5 GHz the week before--remember, eventhough there hasn't been a rev in a while, there are still people buying 2.5 GHz PM every day?
Originally posted by PB
All this is nice and good, but what about the CPU? Apple is not known to do incremental component updates, without raising a little at least the CPU clock (so much about the "MHz myth").
I don't understand the post. They ARE raising the clock.
Originally posted by melgross
I don't understand the post. They ARE raising the clock.
Sorry, I was not clear enough. I think the meaning of nathan22t's post is that Apple could make an update in the components even if the CPU cannot get some MHz up (so that an update would be possible a few months before). There are very few, if any, cases like that in the more recent history at least.
It'll happen quietly after Tiger or it will be the "...one more thing" at WWDC. Either way your speculation for this week is not really useful or worth wasting your time over.
Personnally I'd like a very affordable dual 2 gig system with the best gpu and archetecture available. THAT would float my boat and those of most people than 3 gig megaMac at $3k.
Originally posted by PB
Sorry, I was not clear enough. I think the meaning of nathan22t's post is that Apple could make an update in the components even if the CPU cannot get some MHz up (so that an update would be possible a few months before). There are very few, if any, cases like that in the more recent history at least.
I've been saying that same thing. They could go to express without going to faster processors or dual core.
Originally posted by PB
All this is nice and good, but what about the CPU? Apple is not known to do incremental component updates, without raising a little at least the CPU clock (so much about the "MHz myth").
That is fine. Then should just do the best they can with the other components whenever they upgrade the CPU. The 9600 isn't nearly the best they can do and it makes the machine look quite anemic.
A 9600 card in the Flagship of the Mac line? That's like sending the Enterprise to fight the Borg... and being stingy with the Photons.
Originally posted by nathan22t
A 9600 card in the Flagship of the Mac line? That's like sending the Enterprise to fight the Borg... and being stingy with the Photons.
Sadly, I cannot disagree.
Originally posted by melgross
I've been saying that same thing. They could go to express without going to faster processors or dual core.
As I mentioned in a post earlier here, if these new Power Macs have PCI Express it strongly suggests one thing IMHO. The dual core 970MP will be announced at WWDC in a new high end Mac, often referred to as the Xstation. These may be mostly quads, two 970MP chips, but may have a dual with just one 970MP.
It make no sense to upgrade the Power Mac's motherboard at this time, unless it will be selling for over six months. With an Xstation, the Power Mac can coexist along side it.
Originally posted by snoopy
As I mentioned in a post earlier here, if these new Power Macs have PCI Express it strongly suggests one thing IMHO. The dual core 970MP will be announced at WWDC in a new high end Mac, often referred to as the Xstation. These may be mostly quads, two 970MP chips, but may have a dual with just one 970MP.
It make no sense to upgrade the Power Mac's motherboard at this time, unless it will be selling for over six months. With an Xstation, the Power Mac can coexist along side it.
An Express mother board wouldn't have to change if the new chips come out. It has nothing to do with that. If they come out with an "X Station" that would be an entirely separate machine from their normal lineup. It would have it's own MOBO if it used dual duals.
The "standard" line would probably continue with either a single dual or two single core GX';s, if they ever come out. If a dual dual came out in the standard line it would use the same MOBO. The dual cores are supposed to be based on the GX which has less power requirements.
In either case, an Express board for the standard machines wouldn't have to be changed with new chips, unless the memory controller went on die. That's probably later.
Originally posted by nathan22t
A 9600 card in the Flagship of the Mac line? That's like sending the Enterprise to fight the Borg... and being stingy with the Photons. [/B]
The 9600 is the stock card in the low-end and mid-range PowerMac models, according to the rumour. The high-end gets a 9650 (though we still don't know whether that actually exists or not), and there will be major upgrades available.
Did you actually expect Apple to ship a high-end video card stock with their towers, especially since many of them (the X850XT and 6800 Ultra being examples) take up two slots? Some people need the expansion more than they do a better frame rate in Doom 3. Even Dell's XPS Gen 4 system ships with a *128* MB X800XT (read: deliberately crippled).
To use your metaphor, shipping the PowerMac with a high-end card would be like sending the Enterprise in with a full load of photon torpedos, but having to take out half the shielding if you wanted the rest of the ship functioning normally.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
How about a black anondized aluminum tower with dark red highlights? :P
Why stop there?
Better yet, What happened to the 6800GT. Better yet, What happened to the 9800xt. I have a feeling the only reason the 9600's are shipping stock in the towers is because apple and ATI have a bit of a contract. BTW (the x800 only takes up 1 slot [the agp slot], no extra pci slots).
Even the 9800PRO would be a better card than the 9600xt. *shrugs*.
As far as CPU goes, we all know 2.3 has been available for quite a while (since the last XServe updates). I don't have any verifiable sources on this, but I believe the 2.7 970fx will be the same, with more optimized cooling. If i'm right, then they've had them all along.
Steve said in jan 03 "3ghz by summer" He didn't deliver last year at wwdc.
The powerbooks are at 2.7 (nearly 3)
What if at WWDC he says something like " hey last year I promised you 3ghz powermacs sorry I didn't deliver but this year I have twin 3ghz dual core powermacs!"
also twin 2.7 dual core
and twin 2.5 dual core
shipping in Sept!
yes he will hurt sales on powermacs in the short run but will get huge marketing leverage and pent up demand for the fall season.
Hey, it's a better theory than the Video Ipod at WWDC. He has got to produce something better than an Ipod and itms talk with a Tiger adoption schpiel!
Originally posted by TednDi
Steve said in jan 03 "3ghz by summer" He didn't deliver last year at wwdc.
The powerbooks are at 2.7 (nearly 3)
What if at WWDC he says something like " hey last year I promised you 3ghz powermacs sorry I didn't deliver but this year I have twin 3ghz dual core powermacs!"
also twin 2.7 dual core
and twin 2.5 dual core
shipping in Sept!
Where is the follow-up of this nice dream? Or have you awaken after that?
oh by the way, the order status part of the apple store is down!!
see!
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I don't think the first dual cores, whenever they come out, will be the very highest GHz chip. Nobody else is doing it that way. It's shooting your whole wad at once. Intel is up to 3.8GHz, but their first dual cores are 2.8GHz to 3.2GHz. I suspect IBM won't be any different. It just makes sense to do it that way.
Originally posted by nowayout11
It just makes sense to do it that way.
This does not make the most sense for those of us here at AI dreaming of 4 ghz quad dual core machines arriving tomorrow.