The Future of Insider Lounge
As many of our regular forum visitors will know, we recently made a decision to merge our AppleOutsider and General Discussion forums. The main reason for this was that AppleOutsider had, in the main, been very slow since the introduction of the PoliticalOutsider forum. I felt that merging the two forums would provide a busier forum where those members who only visited to discuss Apple would be introduced to the "real-world" discussions of AppleOutsider and vice-versa. A concept similar to that of MacNN's "The Lounge" forum.
The decision was well received by some but not so by others and in hindsight we realize that we should have consulted forum members first before making such a change. We had always planned on reviewing the decisions down the line and we would very much like to involve forum members in this process.
You are invited to vote on the future of Insider Lounge and the PoliticalOutsider sub-forum by choosing one of the options below:
Option 1
Keep Insider Lounge with PoliticalOutsider sub-forum.
Option 2
Keep Insider Lounge and remove PoliticalOutsider sub-forum.
Option 3
Separate General Discussion and AppleOutsider with PoliticalOutsider sub-forum.
Option 4
Separate General Discussion and AppleOutsider with no PoliticalOutsider sub-forum.
The results of this poll will be announced May 21st and the forums will be altered, if necessary, soon thereafter. Please note that the removal of any forum will result in the forum's discussion threads being moved to another forum - discussion threads will not be deleted.
You may also noticed that the Retail Discussion forum has been removed. This decision was taken after considering feedback from our forum members. It is also our intention to remove the Creative Corner sub-forum due to lack of use.
If you have any comments or suggestion please feel free to leave them here, in the Feedback forum or contact me privately by PM or email.
Thanks
The decision was well received by some but not so by others and in hindsight we realize that we should have consulted forum members first before making such a change. We had always planned on reviewing the decisions down the line and we would very much like to involve forum members in this process.
You are invited to vote on the future of Insider Lounge and the PoliticalOutsider sub-forum by choosing one of the options below:
Option 1
Keep Insider Lounge with PoliticalOutsider sub-forum.
Option 2
Keep Insider Lounge and remove PoliticalOutsider sub-forum.
Option 3
Separate General Discussion and AppleOutsider with PoliticalOutsider sub-forum.
Option 4
Separate General Discussion and AppleOutsider with no PoliticalOutsider sub-forum.
The results of this poll will be announced May 21st and the forums will be altered, if necessary, soon thereafter. Please note that the removal of any forum will result in the forum's discussion threads being moved to another forum - discussion threads will not be deleted.
You may also noticed that the Retail Discussion forum has been removed. This decision was taken after considering feedback from our forum members. It is also our intention to remove the Creative Corner sub-forum due to lack of use.
If you have any comments or suggestion please feel free to leave them here, in the Feedback forum or contact me privately by PM or email.
Thanks
Comments
And I beg to differ. Non-political AO has been slow since the split. This became obvious when PO was created.
Why is that? Sure a lot of the splitters were regular posters in AO. But why has it never recovered? There are over 20,000 members for chrissakes. That's what has to be resolved.
There's clearly demand for PO and as long as they're kept corralled in their own little area, that's fine by me. No way should they be allowed to mix freely with the general population. Someone could get hurt. None of these options will cure AOs ailing health because it seems it's not related to the forum structure. Insider Lounge is really just GD with a smattering of AO. Split off GD, recombine AO and PO and you get PO with a smattering of AO. Go back to a pure AO and you've got a ghost town again.
Hmm, what a conundrum.
Glad to see Creative Corner bite the dust though.
I think you should run the poll a bit longer than a week.
Any chance of getting Digital Hub back? I could whine incessantly about it if that'll help.
Originally posted by crazychester
I need some clarification. I don't understand if there's a difference between the use of the words "remove" and "no". Does either 2 or 4 mean kill PO completely?
2 and 4 both mean we'd kill PoliticalOutsider and political discussion would take place in Insider Lounge or AppleOutsider respectively.
Originally posted by crazychester
In Options 3 and 4, does the use of the word "AppleOutsider" mean the name will be changed back to that?
Probably, we haven't thought that far ahead. We'll probably give it a temporary name, ask for suggestions and have a poll.
Originally posted by crazychester
And I beg to differ. Non-political AO has been slow since the split. This became obvious when PO was created.
I'm confused, you sound like you agree with what I said, not differ. I said that AppleOusider was slow after PoliticalOutisder was created and that was the reason for merging AppleOutisder and General Discussion.
Originally posted by crazychester
Glad to see Creative Corner bite the dust though.
I think you should run the poll a bit longer than a week.
Me too and sure, we'll run it for two weeks.
Originally posted by crazychester
Any chance of getting Digital Hub back? I could whine incessantly about it if that'll help.
Hmmm, iPod + iTunes definitely deserve their own forum - we have at least two forums discussing Apple's Mac business. If we created another forum for discussion of the other digital hub apps that would cover photography, movie making and before long it starts to sound like Creative Corner
Originally posted by crazychester
Any chance of getting Digital Hub back? I could whine incessantly about it if that'll help.
Creative corner was a sort of Digital hub minus I pod and I tunes discussion. I am sorry to see that this forum failed.
If there is a lot of discussion concerning digital hub without I pod and I tunes discussion will be happy to open a special forum for it. But without traffic, I am afraid that it will have the same fate than Creative corner.
Originally posted by MarcUK
Bring back an unmoderated fireside chat
Not in a million years
Originally posted by Jambo
Not in a million years
you know a million years is actually only 1. Jesus loves you
Have no sub forums.
Rename Insider Lounge to "General Mac Related Discussions."
Create a forum for "General Tech Discussion" all otherTech related discussions.
Personally, I don't see the need for a Political forum within a tech oriented site. If people wish to discuss politics they should go to a political forum, this is a tech site, not politics, religion and such.
I didn't know it existed until a week ago: subforum's are not a good idea.
But people in general discussion are friendly and people in politcal outsider are angry; it'd be nice to keep that seperate.
Originally posted by gregmightdothat
I didn't know it existed until a week ago: subforum's are not a good idea.
I guess that means you never found the secret forum then!
Originally posted by gregmightdothat people in politcal outsider are angry[/B]
Dem's fighting words!
Cloud the corners of my mind
Misty, water-coloured memories
Of the way we were...er, are...no, no it's were...oh whatever.
FIRESIDE forum will return to AppleOutsider
December 2002
Forum: AO
drewprops:
This thread was brought back on the anniversary of the merger of Fireside Chat and AppleOutsider...
Just in case you folks who frequent AppleOutside don't know it, the plan is for the forum "Fireside Chat" to be terminated in less than a week. I rarely visited that forum but it was a great outlet for people who wanted to argue politics/religion/etcetera....the best part is that it freed AppleOutsider to stick with lighter non-Apple topics.
trevorM:
Perhaps we could keep FSC but have it hidden sort of like Silicon Alley and those die hard fans could just keep there heated discussions to themself.
Bumped December, 2003
drewprops:
PowerDoc I hope you don't mind me reviving this thread as we are nigh upon the anniversary of the merger of Fireside Chat with the AppleOutsider forum. Just as suspected, AppleOutsider turned into Fireside Chat; partisan political battles are pitched all over the forum now....the flame wars illuminating the place like a medieval battlefield.
Poll: Do you want AO back like it used to be?
May/June, 2003
Forum: Feedback
Defiant:
Look at what AO is now.
It's a shadow of its former self.
It's ugly. It's heated. It doesn't move anywhere. It stands still.
I want AO back.
Who will help me?
Jambo:
The membership turned it into what it is now.
Only they can change it.
Chinney:
There is nothing wrong with AO.
Ebby:
Bring back Fireside Chat!
Defiant:
Maybe some things should stay as they were, so that we can refer to them as 'the glorious old times'.
Maybe we will look back and see what we had.
What to do about AO?
July/September, 2003
Forum: AO
Argento:
I got an idea, bring back FIRESIDE CHAT!
Chinney:
AO is fine.
Poll: Election Year/Political Subforum
January, 2004
Forum: AO
Chinney
My view, endlessly reiterated, is that AO is just fine as it is.
Bumped July, 2004
BRussell:
I thought I'd bump this because I think it may be a good idea to consider again.
What shape do you see in clouds?
July, 2003
Forum: AO
trumptman:
I see bunnies
shetline:
I see bunnies too.
Bunnies are soft.
Powerdoc:
I see bunnies too.......one of them walk in front of me and said 'what's new Doc ? "
Chinney:
Bring back the thought, discussion, and disagreement citing studies, current events, and websites:
Even evil right-wing thought and discussion, leading to disagreements with us pinko-commie liberals.
Even biased studies, outlandish portrayals of current events and dubious websites.
Bring it all back. Anything but this.
shetline:
Soon everything will be alright.
Based on the views of members expressed over a number of years, I propose a sixth option as follows:
- reinstate GD
- keep PO but make it a secret forum
- create a new Fireside Chat for discussions about AO's problems
- appoint Chinney as moderator of it
- rename Insider Lounge, AppleOutsider and restrict discussion to topics relating to bunnies
Do you ever wonder if maybe we're a bit...um....you know....oh what's the word.....
hopeless, yeah that's it, hopeless.
If you don't like the tone of conversation in certain places, don't go there. Its easy, it really is.
If you're not mature enough to handle a heated discussion. Dont go there, its easy, it really is.
No one forces anyone to get into an argument - its about time the people started taking responsibility for their actions and not try to pass the buck for thier lack of integrity.
Satan did not tempt you to argue. You chose that yourself, it's your action and your responsibility - and if your so pathetic that you cannot stop yourself clicking links you know will distress you - you need help.
AO is contreversial, but is important for the site. I am only sure of one thing : any choice will be controversial. At least it will be the choice of the majority. Currently I belong to a minority. That's life
Why?
Because the existence of political outsider sucks the life out of the forum.
How?
People who would otherwise come into some sort of contact with other topics/interests are sequestered away into a battlefront of (mostly lame) political, psuedo-intellectual gobbledygook. Despite their prediliction for polemics, these aren't dumb people, and they could contribute to meaningful discussions in other areas, but steering them away from that -- reducing their contact with other areas -- has the effect of making them more polemical and one-dimensional. Conversely, the topics about other 'mundane' stuff, get flatter and more boring because the antagonists have all gone elsewhere. Take a look at Apple Outsider (sorry, the 'lounge') and see. All those people who complained about politics/religion/antagonism don't post very much interesting 'other' stuff, and aren't really engaged by anyone. Their threads pop-up and die, and they're bored, and then they either go over to PO, where at least people have a pulse, or they go to other, more balanced forums.
Your current structure is just bad pedagogy.
You know you have a problem if I have to lecture you about zen.
Interestingly, BRussell gives a report in many of those threads about how many political threads were in AO at the time. It really wasn't all that bad.
Just out of interest, any of the Head Poobahs around at the time, remember why the poitical threads weren't split off as a result of Jonathon's poll. The majority voted for it. You didn't tell us back then so now's your chance.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Currently I belong to a minority. That's life
What does that mean? Sorry about Creative Corner, Powerdoc. But there's no reason why those threads couldn't go in AO anyway.
To be honest, Digital Hub sort of died after the split too. But I still miss it. Besides, I was starting to wonder if tonton had gone off in huff because he wasn't happy about it being killed. But coincidentally, he's turned back up.
And it's Fred Astaire's birthday. Or it would be if he was alive. Plus I think the local thugs might be after me. If I never post again, I've probably been beaten to death. Full of interesting information, aren't I?
You may be perfectly right that the best thing would be to merge PO and AO again and only open PO when heavy political seasons hit (ala Temporary Insanity for MacWorld expos), but there's really nothing we can do unless it wins the vote.
It's the whole "doing what we think is best without asking first" thing that caused a big to-do in the first place.
Even within the confines of this fora's community, such a poll is a horrible representation, it has zero statistical value. It might be fun, but it's neither a poll nor an election.
Grover, are you still in journalism? I have veered the other way, and I can tell you a bit about this business of taking the public's temperature. You do it, we do it, sometimes it's a more worthwhile exercise than other times, but in the end, you have to lead based on sound decision making. A polster is just a member of the chattering classes, armed with numbers. You listen at your peril.