Anyway, Microsoft is losing money per console sold, not including what they are spending advertising and support. Reports have it fall between $50 to $105 lost per console. MS has only said that they are losing money, and
All I can say is that I'm doing my part to lower Microsoft's bottom line. We bought an XBox so my daughter could play DDR Dance something or other. If they are relying on game purchases to pad the bottom line, we're not obliging. We only buy used games and have never paid more than $20 for a game. The only down side is that by the time I get to play Halo no one will remember that it even existed.
Anyway, Microsoft is losing money per console sold, not including what they are spending advertising and support. Reports have it fall between $50 to $105 lost per console. MS has only said that they are losing money, and
won't comment on how much.
...in that article. (bold = me)
That was suppose to be a logical AND . MS has freely admitted they never intended making a profit on the first gen (not withstanding the last quarter, which was anomaly). However, selling below cost has never been the common practice in the industry and it is doubtful it ever will be.
Just FYI, ThinkSecret Confirmed the fact that the xbox 360 does IN FACT have the 970 in it ;-)
"3.2GHz PowerPC 970-based processors"
D00d you are loaded. have you not seen the pictures all over the net, or read the articles were microsoft has confirmed they have 2 powerMac's running the demo's. The 360 is just a shell.
There is one that has the new ATI video card in it at an ATI booth, but that also has a rewired source coming from a few Mac's.
What the Xbox 360 (probably) uses are three of the Cell's PPE units with a custom VMX-128 instead of the Cell's PPE's simplified VMX or Apple's regular VMX, and a unified 1 MB L2 cache with some special features instead of Cell's local stores.
IBM developed the PPE based off some stuff they were working back in 1999/2000, i.e. the first processor to crack the 1 GHz barrier. It's an in-order processor with SMT and not much in the way of branch prediction. 970's are out-of-order, do not have SMT, and have lots of branch prediction. The rest of the Cell is probably joint IP between Sony, Toshiba and IBM - but the PPE itself is solely an IBM design that they can sell to anyone, like they did to Microsoft.
So no, the Xbox 360 is not using 970's but Microsoft is using them via the G5's they have to run game demos.
And yeah, everybody but Nintendo loses money on their consoles for a few years, but more then make it back with game licensing fees.
I'm sure Microsoft just wrote some drivers for the graphics card.
that article has lots of crap in it(actually mentioning atari at the time of the PS and Saturn), but even your little article admitted that Microsoft loses money per console...
I never said that Xenon was Cell minus the SPE's. I said that it was 3 PPE's. PPE != Cell. PPE is merely a striped down in order PowerPC processor that the Cell happens to use as a central processor. The Cell version has simplified VMX, the Xbox 360 version has a custom VMX-128.
From the article you linked:
Page 6
Part II of this series will take a closer look at the actual microarchitecture of the Xenon. I'll talk about the makeup of the PPEs, as well as the mysterious 128-register version of VMX that will make its debut on the new core. Finally, I'll discuss the general approach and design philosophy of the Xenon as a CPU, and I'll outline how many of the same forces and trends that shaped its approach also shaped the Playstation 3's Cell processor.
As my bolded part shows, Hannibal also says that the Xbox CPU is a PPE.
Or just go hang out in the Ars Perpetual Apple upcoming CPU thread, where again the general consensus is that the Xbox is using the PPE (albeit a custom version) just like Cell.
AFAIK it's just regular G5's because PPE's are still scarce as IBM ramps up at 90nm.
Comments
Originally posted by ridgeydidge
It is a common myth that Microsoft and Sony sell their consoles for below cost.http://www.actsofgord.com/Proclamations/chapter02.html
Uhh, he writes...
Anyway, Microsoft is losing money per console sold, not including what they are spending advertising and support. Reports have it fall between $50 to $105 lost per console. MS has only said that they are losing money, and
won't comment on how much.
...in that article. (bold = me)
Originally posted by jabba
They call it the XBox 120 (aka PowerMac G5)
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/615/...html?fromint=1
Interesting picture, although the facts are known, as Henriok et al. pointed out in this thread.
Does anyone which machines MS shipped as 'alpha units' ? Dual G5 2,5 Ghz ?
webmail: Did the MS guy refer to the *final* XBox 360 ? If so, it may be a new member of the 970 family...
Edit: I read that the 'Beta Units' should ship in May ? Are these simply 2,7 Ghz machines or something better ?
Dual 2Ghz G5's with an ATI X800 GPU running a modified NT kernel.
Straight from E3
They're "just" G5s locked away..
another pic
Source:
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-...-g5-104295.php
and
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-...360-104285.php
Originally posted by ridgeydidge
It is a common myth that Microsoft and Sony sell their consoles for
below cost.http://www.actsofgord.com/Proclamations/chapter02.html
Uhh, he writes...
quote:
Anyway, Microsoft is losing money per console sold, not including what they are spending advertising and support. Reports have it fall between $50 to $105 lost per console. MS has only said that they are losing money, and
won't comment on how much.
...in that article. (bold = me)
That was suppose to be a logical AND
"3.2GHz PowerPC 970-based processors"
Originally posted by webmail
Just FYI, ThinkSecret Confirmed the fact that the xbox 360 does IN FACT have the 970 in it ;-)
Ryan Katz must be drunk.
Originally posted by webmail
Just FYI, ThinkSecret Confirmed the fact that the xbox 360 does IN FACT have the 970 in it ;-)
"3.2GHz PowerPC 970-based processors"
D00d you are loaded. have you not seen the pictures all over the net, or read the articles were microsoft has confirmed they have 2 powerMac's running the demo's. The 360 is just a shell.
There is one that has the new ATI video card in it at an ATI booth, but that also has a rewired source coming from a few Mac's.
Here is a link to the pictures just scroll down, and you'll see what you need.
What the Xbox 360 (probably) uses are three of the Cell's PPE units with a custom VMX-128 instead of the Cell's PPE's simplified VMX or Apple's regular VMX, and a unified 1 MB L2 cache with some special features instead of Cell's local stores.
IBM developed the PPE based off some stuff they were working back in 1999/2000, i.e. the first processor to crack the 1 GHz barrier. It's an in-order processor with SMT and not much in the way of branch prediction. 970's are out-of-order, do not have SMT, and have lots of branch prediction. The rest of the Cell is probably joint IP between Sony, Toshiba and IBM - but the PPE itself is solely an IBM design that they can sell to anyone, like they did to Microsoft.
So no, the Xbox 360 is not using 970's but Microsoft is using them via the G5's they have to run game demos.
And yeah, everybody but Nintendo loses money on their consoles for a few years, but more then make it back with game licensing fees.
I'm sure Microsoft just wrote some drivers for the graphics card.
Originally posted by ridgeydidge
It is a common myth that Microsoft and Sony sell their consoles for below cost.
http://www.actsofgord.com/Proclamations/chapter02.html
that article has lots of crap in it(actually mentioning atari at the time of the PS and Saturn), but even your little article admitted that Microsoft loses money per console...
MOVE ALONG, NOTHING TO SEE THERE....
Arstechnica
Originally posted by heinzel
No, Xenon is NOT a PPC970 derivative. It also is NOT a Cell with no SPEs. Here's a good begining of an idea what it actually might be:
Arstechnica
Are the new Xbox games being demoed on regular G5's or ones with the 970 is replaced with the Xenon chip?
From the article you linked:
Page 6
Part II of this series will take a closer look at the actual microarchitecture of the Xenon. I'll talk about the makeup of the PPEs, as well as the mysterious 128-register version of VMX that will make its debut on the new core. Finally, I'll discuss the general approach and design philosophy of the Xenon as a CPU, and I'll outline how many of the same forces and trends that shaped its approach also shaped the Playstation 3's Cell processor.
As my bolded part shows, Hannibal also says that the Xbox CPU is a PPE.
Or just go hang out in the Ars Perpetual Apple upcoming CPU thread, where again the general consensus is that the Xbox is using the PPE (albeit a custom version) just like Cell.
AFAIK it's just regular G5's because PPE's are still scarce as IBM ramps up at 90nm.
Originally posted by anand
Are the new Xbox games being demoed on regular G5's or ones with the 970 is replaced with the Xenon chip?
Regular G5s with regular 2 GHz 970 processors. The only thing not regular is that they are equipped with Radeon X800 GPUs.