Seems to me a lot of people have been saying this switch to Intel is about power/speed. I seriously doubt that. The PPC G5s are very fast. I think you would be very hard-pressed to come up with good data saying that Intel's chips are really faster. From what I am hearing/reading, the concern is with power per watt. They just can't make the computers they envision with the wattage restraints of the G5. I don't remember Steve once saying that the new Intel chips are simply more powerful; just more powerful per watt.
Do you think the first MacTel will dissapoint in terms of speed? I wonder. If someone is used to dual 2.3-2.7 G5s and their next computer is a Pentium M or D -- much difference?
Where do these names come from? particularly "yonah" sounds good.
Intel's design team for Pentium-M chips is located in Israel.
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
Heh. Apple may only use Pentium-M chips in all of the machines.
Intel's roadmap for non-Netburst architecture
Yonah mobile CPU is expected to be released in Q1 2006. Yonah is part of the Napa platform and the successor to Dothan. It is expected to be built on a 65nm process and contain two CPU cores on a single die taking 151.6 million transistors. Yonah is expected to feature a 667Mhz FSB speed and a 2Mb L2 cache shared between the two cores and will feature an updated SSE instruction set along with improved performance of the x86 FPU. These improvements to the floating point performance of the processor are dubbed "Digital Media Boost" by Intel. Yonah will also feature improvements to power management and thermal output. Intel's Advanced Thermal Manager offers finer grained thermal management and Yonah will allow for one core to be slowed down independently of the other if power consumption or heat dissipation rises too much. Yonah will also feature Intel's Vanderpool virtualisation technology and LaGrande security technology, but will not contain x64 instruction set support in it's first incarnation.
Calistoga chipset for Yonah, is expected to support a 667Mhz FSB, DDR-2 667 and PCI Express. Calistoga will be paired with ICH7-M, featuring 4xSATA-300 ports, and the Golan wireless chipset, supporting 80211a/b/g and WPA2.
Sossaman desktop CPU is expected to be released in Q2 2006. Although Sossaman is expected to be a desktop CPU, based on the E7520 chipset (for Xeon DP, the chipset is expected to feature support for a 1066Mhz FSB speed, Intel's I/O acceleration, Vanderpool and Active Management technology), it is expected to be a dual core processor based on the Yonah core. Sossaman is a low power processor, with the 2Ghz revision having a TDP of 31W, with the 1.67Ghz LV version having a TDP of just 15W.
Merom mobile CPU, the successor to Yonah, is expected to be released in Late 2006. Merom will be built on a 65nm process and is expected to feature a different architecture to previous Banias-based processors, providing a 20-30% performance improvement per clock. Merom is expected to be a dual-core CPU and will perhaps already feature 64-bit capability.
Crestine chipset for Merom is expected to be released in Late 2006. Crestine is expected to support an 800Mhz FSB speed, DDRII 800 SDRAM and PCI Express. It is expected to interface to ICH8-M, featuring support for Serial ATA 300, and the Golan2 / Annadel wireless chipset supporting 80211a/b/g and 11n WiMax.
Conroe desktop CPU is expected to be released in Late 2006. Conroe is a dual core CPU based around the Merom core. In order to increase the performance of this CPU for the desktop market, some of the power constraints from Merom will be removed. Conroe will feature Vanderpool and 64-bit capability in addition to EDB and EIST
Broadwater chipset for Conroe is expected to be released in H1 2006 as a platform for Presler (65nm successor of Pentium D) and will interface to ICH8. It is expected to feature Intel's Active Management Technology 2 (AMT2) and will introduce the LaGrande security system.
Woodcrest server CPU is expected to be released in Q1 2007. Woodcrest is the DP version of Conroe.
Whitefield server CPU is expected to be released in Q3 2007. Whitefield is expected to be an entirely new CPU design for MP servers, replacing the current NetBurst architecture with a low power, possibly a 4 core Yonah design using the former Tanglewood interface (new itanium bus).
Gilo mobile CPU, the successor to Merom, is expected to be released in Late 2007. It is expected to feature 64-bit capability and an integrated memory controller.
The mac mini sounds even more attractive to me with intel inside if only because I could get an intel mac to play with cheap.
Naive users buying a mac on a whim to work with their iPod will probably be comforted to know that it couldd run windows. Also, I think it will really appeal to those institutions setting up computer labs. It's a cheap, elegant box that can run windows and OS X.
It makes complete sense. You must remember the target audience of each computer. Users of the PowerMac line of computers have absolutely no interest of running a single line of code using Rosetta.
I vote for the Mac Mini. This is the safest platform for Apple to start with. They can release a few hundred thousand of these in a quarter. If there are no major hiccups they can start moving up the ladder to the pro machines. I think it would be risky to start off with something like the PowerBook. What if something showed up in the field. The Mac Minis users might be more tolerant of small problems.
I would figure the mini will be the first wintel mac. Get ready for all the people that get windows xp loaded and running on it. They'll be posting it all over the internet.
I would figure the mini will be the first wintel mac. Get ready for all the people that get windows xp loaded and running on it. They'll be posting it all over the internet.
DON'T HATE APPLE, APPLE LOVES YOU, APPLE WANTS TO BE YOUR FRIEND.
DON'T HATE WINDOPS XP, WINDOPS XP LOVES YOU, WINDOPS XP WANTS TO BE YOUR FRIEND BUT DOESN'T KNOW HOW !!!
I said PowerBook because of the obvious lack of choices for it to really get better with PPC.
I'm, however, a little perplexed with the concept of start at the bottom and move up. Yes, the MacMini seams a safe place to start and it is easy to see how the low power chips will help the lineup. However, the high end sales are going to crash. Can you imagine a state were MacMinis, iBooks, and Powerbooks are Intel. Sales of IMacs, PowerMacs and XServes will crash until they get updated. So either IBM has one last good chip for us to keep these things on life support, or Apple is going to see a slope change in that growth curve of theirs.
Hannibal over at Ars has an article about this whole business. He confirms that the mini is going to get it first (by quoting Teh Steve as saying so during the keynote). He also implies the mini will be getting Yonah-- which is... WOW. The mini will be getting a dual core proc? Early next year? double- I think I'm going to like the new Macs. 8)
Can you imagine a state were MacMinis, iBooks, and Powerbooks are Intel. Sales of IMacs, PowerMacs and XServes will crash until they get updated. So either IBM has one last good chip for us to keep these things on life support, or Apple is going to see a slope change in that growth curve of theirs.
I don't think it will be a major problem, because high-end users don't want to, and don't need to, rush into the platform change. They have the most invested in the Altivec/G5 architechure, and it will take time to tweak things as nicely for SSE/P-M. In the meantime, the switch to Intel would be a step backwards, performance-wise. Dual-G5's, and in the (hopefully) near future, dual-core dual-G5's, kick butt. It's a great chip, and OSX and high-end apps really benefit from Altivec and multiple processors. Only when Intel gets it's multi-cored, SSE3-capable, FPU-stoked Pentium-M-deriatives ready for the desktop will there be any motivation to switch. And I wouldn't be a bit surprised if, by the time the rest of the lines are switched over, and the devs have done their part to make all their apps universal-binary, Apple decides to let the G5 co-exist with Intel chips for a while at the top of the line.
A question for the Intellinati, though. Does the dual-core nature of all these forthcoming Intel chips mean that they'll play nice as MP's? It seems like this has been one of the biggest handicaps of desktop x86, and the biggest advantage of G4/G5's. If not, a year from now I'd definitely take a dual-proc, dual-core 3.0GHz G5 system over a single dual-core Yonah.
4 Stages, PowerMacs last because they will only be upgraded when most professional applications are ported AND they out perform the PPC versions. Both PPC processors and Intel processors are likely to improve between now and switchover, but when will the performance crossover occur?
Performance crossover is closest on iBook and eMac, then PowerBook and iMac and lastly PowerMac and xServe. I don't think it will follow the prerformance line directly because Apple wants to keep professional on board and they will want to iron out any teething problems on the bottom end and ensure that most applications are ready for the professional end.
Comments
Do you think the first MacTel will dissapoint in terms of speed? I wonder. If someone is used to dual 2.3-2.7 G5s and their next computer is a Pentium M or D -- much difference?
Originally posted by 1984
Mac mini -> iBook -> PowerBook -> eMac -> iMac -> PowerMac
Apple will confuse the least computer savvy people with the mix of native versus not native apps... first?
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
Where do these names come from? particularly "yonah" sounds good.
Intel's design team for Pentium-M chips is located in Israel.
Originally posted by THT
Heh. Apple may only use Pentium-M chips in all of the machines.
Intel's roadmap for non-Netburst architecture
Yonah mobile CPU is expected to be released in Q1 2006. Yonah is part of the Napa platform and the successor to Dothan. It is expected to be built on a 65nm process and contain two CPU cores on a single die taking 151.6 million transistors. Yonah is expected to feature a 667Mhz FSB speed and a 2Mb L2 cache shared between the two cores and will feature an updated SSE instruction set along with improved performance of the x86 FPU. These improvements to the floating point performance of the processor are dubbed "Digital Media Boost" by Intel. Yonah will also feature improvements to power management and thermal output. Intel's Advanced Thermal Manager offers finer grained thermal management and Yonah will allow for one core to be slowed down independently of the other if power consumption or heat dissipation rises too much. Yonah will also feature Intel's Vanderpool virtualisation technology and LaGrande security technology, but will not contain x64 instruction set support in it's first incarnation.
Calistoga chipset for Yonah, is expected to support a 667Mhz FSB, DDR-2 667 and PCI Express. Calistoga will be paired with ICH7-M, featuring 4xSATA-300 ports, and the Golan wireless chipset, supporting 80211a/b/g and WPA2.
Sossaman desktop CPU is expected to be released in Q2 2006. Although Sossaman is expected to be a desktop CPU, based on the E7520 chipset (for Xeon DP, the chipset is expected to feature support for a 1066Mhz FSB speed, Intel's I/O acceleration, Vanderpool and Active Management technology), it is expected to be a dual core processor based on the Yonah core. Sossaman is a low power processor, with the 2Ghz revision having a TDP of 31W, with the 1.67Ghz LV version having a TDP of just 15W.
Merom mobile CPU, the successor to Yonah, is expected to be released in Late 2006. Merom will be built on a 65nm process and is expected to feature a different architecture to previous Banias-based processors, providing a 20-30% performance improvement per clock. Merom is expected to be a dual-core CPU and will perhaps already feature 64-bit capability.
Crestine chipset for Merom is expected to be released in Late 2006. Crestine is expected to support an 800Mhz FSB speed, DDRII 800 SDRAM and PCI Express. It is expected to interface to ICH8-M, featuring support for Serial ATA 300, and the Golan2 / Annadel wireless chipset supporting 80211a/b/g and 11n WiMax.
Conroe desktop CPU is expected to be released in Late 2006. Conroe is a dual core CPU based around the Merom core. In order to increase the performance of this CPU for the desktop market, some of the power constraints from Merom will be removed. Conroe will feature Vanderpool and 64-bit capability in addition to EDB and EIST
Broadwater chipset for Conroe is expected to be released in H1 2006 as a platform for Presler (65nm successor of Pentium D) and will interface to ICH8. It is expected to feature Intel's Active Management Technology 2 (AMT2) and will introduce the LaGrande security system.
Woodcrest server CPU is expected to be released in Q1 2007. Woodcrest is the DP version of Conroe.
Whitefield server CPU is expected to be released in Q3 2007. Whitefield is expected to be an entirely new CPU design for MP servers, replacing the current NetBurst architecture with a low power, possibly a 4 core Yonah design using the former Tanglewood interface (new itanium bus).
Gilo mobile CPU, the successor to Merom, is expected to be released in Late 2007. It is expected to feature 64-bit capability and an integrated memory controller.
Or in a short form: I agree with THT
Naive users buying a mac on a whim to work with their iPod will probably be comforted to know that it couldd run windows. Also, I think it will really appeal to those institutions setting up computer labs. It's a cheap, elegant box that can run windows and OS X.
Originally posted by spyder
Why Update the Powermacs last? It makes no sense.
It makes complete sense. You must remember the target audience of each computer. Users of the PowerMac line of computers have absolutely no interest of running a single line of code using Rosetta.
Originally posted by I hate Apple NOW
I would figure the mini will be the first wintel mac. Get ready for all the people that get windows xp loaded and running on it. They'll be posting it all over the internet.
DON'T HATE APPLE, APPLE LOVES YOU, APPLE WANTS TO BE YOUR FRIEND.
DON'T HATE WINDOPS XP, WINDOPS XP LOVES YOU, WINDOPS XP WANTS TO BE YOUR FRIEND BUT DOESN'T KNOW HOW !!!
I'm, however, a little perplexed with the concept of start at the bottom and move up. Yes, the MacMini seams a safe place to start and it is easy to see how the low power chips will help the lineup. However, the high end sales are going to crash. Can you imagine a state were MacMinis, iBooks, and Powerbooks are Intel. Sales of IMacs, PowerMacs and XServes will crash until they get updated. So either IBM has one last good chip for us to keep these things on life support, or Apple is going to see a slope change in that growth curve of theirs.
Originally posted by MACchine
DON'T HATE APPLE, APPLE LOVES YOU, APPLE WANTS TO BE YOUR FRIEND.
DON'T HATE WINDOPS XP, WINDOPS XP LOVES YOU, WINDOPS XP WANTS TO BE YOUR FRIEND BUT DOESN'T KNOW HOW !!!
What you been smoking? how can windows love you? windows wants to enslave you. How can I love apple, when they stab me in the back?
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
Can you imagine a state were MacMinis, iBooks, and Powerbooks are Intel. Sales of IMacs, PowerMacs and XServes will crash until they get updated. So either IBM has one last good chip for us to keep these things on life support, or Apple is going to see a slope change in that growth curve of theirs.
I don't think it will be a major problem, because high-end users don't want to, and don't need to, rush into the platform change. They have the most invested in the Altivec/G5 architechure, and it will take time to tweak things as nicely for SSE/P-M. In the meantime, the switch to Intel would be a step backwards, performance-wise. Dual-G5's, and in the (hopefully) near future, dual-core dual-G5's, kick butt. It's a great chip, and OSX and high-end apps really benefit from Altivec and multiple processors. Only when Intel gets it's multi-cored, SSE3-capable, FPU-stoked Pentium-M-deriatives ready for the desktop will there be any motivation to switch. And I wouldn't be a bit surprised if, by the time the rest of the lines are switched over, and the devs have done their part to make all their apps universal-binary, Apple decides to let the G5 co-exist with Intel chips for a while at the top of the line.
A question for the Intellinati, though. Does the dual-core nature of all these forthcoming Intel chips mean that they'll play nice as MP's? It seems like this has been one of the biggest handicaps of desktop x86, and the biggest advantage of G4/G5's. If not, a year from now I'd definitely take a dual-proc, dual-core 3.0GHz G5 system over a single dual-core Yonah.
4 Stages, PowerMacs last because they will only be upgraded when most professional applications are ported AND they out perform the PPC versions. Both PPC processors and Intel processors are likely to improve between now and switchover, but when will the performance crossover occur?
Performance crossover is closest on iBook and eMac, then PowerBook and iMac and lastly PowerMac and xServe. I don't think it will follow the prerformance line directly because Apple wants to keep professional on board and they will want to iron out any teething problems on the bottom end and ensure that most applications are ready for the professional end.
Originally posted by smalM
Intel's design team for Pentium-M chips is located in Israel.
...
Yonah mobile CPU is expected to be released in Q1 2006. Yonah
(...)
Hi, thank you for that educated answer. I appreciate it
pretty much.
This all sounds promising. Actually there is a lot of
headroom for apple to develop a great deal of goodies. ,)
I believe more and more that apple shifts its
naming paradigm toward witty processor
codenames. As i stated somewhere else:
Powerbook Yonah. Maybe something different.
Hey this company calls its OS "Tiger".