The F1 suicide

Posted:
in AppleOutsider edited January 2014
F1 is now dead. at least in the states with this crime of a start. the smartest most advanced racers in the world cant handle a ~4 degree bank? that is fucking hilarious! those guys would shit if they saw the track at Bristol Tenn that Nascar uses 2 times per year.



So glad I decided not to get a basic standing room pass to the USGP that woulda been a waste of money, and I can damn sure tell you that I will not go next year either



info if you arent watching:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33185
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 61
    stustanleystustanley Posts: 236member
    i dont really think you can blame the teams (appart from ferrari), you need to blame the fia. I will explain:



    Mitchelin brought the wrong tirea with them. Ok, big mistake on someones part. But the triedto get some new ones, but the fia wouldnt let them use them.

    They then tried to put a chicane in at the last corner, all the teams agreed execept ferrari, so it dodnt happen.(i think it was ferrari anyway.)



    The fia were toltally unwilling to make a comprimise at all, and i think the teams were right to pull out as it was a matter of safety, not only the drivers, but the stewards, pit crews and spectators.



    There were almost only the two ferraris starting the race.



    Formula one ay well now be dead in america, but it never reallly took off to start with.

    It will be fine in the rest of the world, but the fia is doing the sport a great dis-service.



    The fia has far more money than sense.
  • Reply 2 of 61
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by stustanley

    i dont really think you can blame the teams (appart from ferrari),



    whats the problem with ferrari? they just tried to put on a show, had everyone parked, there would have beeen mob riots in indianapolis!



    also the local announcers on wibc AM, indianapolis said a lot of sponcers were already ticked at the FIA and on the fence, as was BMW, and this may have been the shove that they needed to get out
  • Reply 3 of 61
    omegaomega Posts: 427member
    Rumour is that 9 out of the 10 teams were looking to have a chicane put into the course to solve the problem.



    Guess which team was not included.



    Yes Ferrari is in the "right", but was it worth it?
  • Reply 4 of 61
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Omega

    Rumour is that 9 out of the 10 teams were looking to have a chicane put into the course to solve the problem.



    Guess which team was not included.



    Yes Ferrari is in the "right", but was it worth it?




    why change the track layout minutes before the race when the teams (at least the responsable ones) were preparing for the track as it was, also, the word on the radio was the teams were not inflating the tires to the manufacturer spec, and if that is true, then it is soley the Michelin teams fault, not the manufacturer its self
  • Reply 5 of 61
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    What the fuck is a chicane?
  • Reply 6 of 61
    omegaomega Posts: 427member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hardeeharhar

    What the fuck is a chicane?



    Two sharp corners designed to slow the cars done



    eg a sharp left right corner
  • Reply 7 of 61
    omegaomega Posts: 427member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by a_greer

    why change the track layout minutes before the race when the teams (at least the responsable ones) were preparing for the track as it was, also, the word on the radio was the teams were not inflating the tires to the manufacturer spec, and if that is true, then it is soley the Michelin teams fault, not the manufacturer its self



    The proposal was not made "minutes" before the race. There was sufficient time to build a temporary chicane according to most parties involved.



    I do find it amusing that BE puts all these restrictions on the tyres that can be used and now will sanction Michelin for non-performance. Michelin had a tyre that could have been used. They were not allowed to use them according to the rules BE implemented.



    From most accounts the Michelin runners would have been happy to race today with the new tyres and not receive any points, giving the fans a spectacle that in the very least was better than this.



    It would have also been interesting if Jordan had not raced and honoured the agreement to not race unless a chicane had been in place. Minardi only went out because Jordan did (they are racing each other in the constructors).



    This would have only left Ferrari on the track. Would it have been black flagged?
  • Reply 8 of 61
    hardeeharharhardeeharhar Posts: 4,841member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Omega

    Two sharp corners designed to slow the cars done



    eg a sharp left right corner




    Ah....



    That is more or less what I thought it was...
  • Reply 9 of 61
    stustanleystustanley Posts: 236member
    Quote:

    whats the problem with ferrari?



    the problem i had with ferrari is that they wouldnt agree to put in the chicane when the other 9 teams would, im suspecting that they knew this would mean the other teams couldnt race, giving them 18 easy points in the constrructors champ.





    There was plenty of time for a number of options to be carried out, and as a fan of the sport i am extremely dissapointed at the show given today.
  • Reply 10 of 61
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    It was ridiculous...but not for the "reasons" the poster stated. Either way, I'd almost* rather watch 6 Formula 1 cars going around a circuit than 40 cars going around and around and around in an oval/circle for two or three hours.

  • Reply 11 of 61
    Sorry a_greer, but I guess you don't know too much about the sport? Completely the FIAs fault for not giving any kind of show. I'm guessing you are American? Not stereotyping or nowt, but many Americans I speak to just don't get formula 1. However I completely agree with Omega's and stustanley's posts in this thread.



    Hopefully all of the people in the grandstands will get a refund and the circuit managers will sue the FIA for such a stupid waste of time and money for them. So the losers here are the fans, and the winners seem to be the FIA. Of course the fans pay the cash and the FIA makes it. The FIA need to tread carefully now and stop mucking with our rules every year (or every few months on some occasions).



    But yes F1 would seem sadly dead now for the US. It's a shame to lose an interesting and different circuit - which I would guess is guaranteed.







    As an aside, I didn't know why the Indycars needed a perfectly dry track to run on when I saw them over here a few years ago. I also couldn't work out why then they held the British race in September (as opposed to a dryer August)... Hey ho.
  • Reply 12 of 61
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by danielctull

    But yes F1 would seem sadly dead now for the US. It's a shame to lose an interesting and different circuit - which I would guess is guaranteed.



    As an aside, I didn't know why the Indycars needed a perfectly dry track to run on when I saw them over here a few years ago. I also couldn't work out why then they held the British race in September (as opposed to a dryer August)... Hey ho.




    I almost cried when I saw what happened today. As an F1 fan, an American, and someone who works (peripherally) in the auto racing business, I was hoping that F1 would start to catch on more in the states.



    I don't know if the blame can be placed squarely on anyone's shoulders, but, with this year's travesty and last year's generally bad race, it does feel like Formula 1 was trying to sabotage its existence in the USA. I don't believe that's the case, but it feels like it. I'm inclined to bet, though, that the reason for the problems has more to do with the relative uniqueness of the Indianapolis road course itself. In order to foster a better F1 climate in the US, the US tracks should be bread-and-butter F1 tracks over which the powers-that-be can sleepwalk through their preparations. The fact that all of this confusion over chicanes and downdraft and everything else exists at all is really, in my eyes, the root of the problem. F1 teams, the suppliers, and the admin have the luxury to worry about little more than the big events, which the US grand prix is unfortunately not.
  • Reply 13 of 61
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by danielctull

    Not stereotyping or nowt, but many Americans I speak to just don't get formula 1.



    It's not our cup of tea. We don't really care for road racing and we despise elitism which are both intertwined in Formula One. To us, the racing is very boring and besides Montoya we really can't stand any of the drivers.
  • Reply 14 of 61
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BenRoethig

    It's not our cup of tea. We don't really care for road racing and we despise elitism which are both intertwined in Formula One. To us, the racing is very boring and besides Montoya we really can't stand any of the drivers.



    That's a pretty broad statement. Clearly, the 145 thousand people who went to the US grand prix wanted to see some road racing. But I'm really curious how you find slower, oval track racing in less optimized cars to be more exciting [or less boring] than F1. Most of Nascar's success can be pinned on the fact that International Speedway Corp found that generally-Southern males, a demographic that enjoys getting toasted for three day weekends, would be happy to drive long distances and pay a lot of money if the drivers were also generally-southern males. ISC and Nascar have done a brilliant marketing job, and "Generally-Southern" has now expanded to "middle-American," but for folks like me who have grown up East coast cities, the cosmopolitan flair of F1 is still a much more comfortable ambiance.



    Lastly, you speak of elitism. The elitism is there for sure, just the other way around: At Nascar I take plenty of guff for being a "city boy F1 fan." Also, despite the myth perpetuated by "Days of Thunder," there's plenty of aristocracy in Nascar. Fuck: people cheer when "Junior" does so much as start his engine.



    F1 clearly has an audience in America. The guy who figures out how to market it, especially after having to clean up the mess from this incident, will be a rich man.
  • Reply 15 of 61
    the cool gutthe cool gut Posts: 1,714member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Splinemodel

    The elitism is there for sure, just the other way around:





    ++



    Nascar driver's are just a bunch of hill billies, with not much sense (eg. rusty wallace). The cars travel at the same speed for the entire duration of the race, and only turn in one direction. Not much of a sport, auto racing wise.
  • Reply 16 of 61
    omegaomega Posts: 427member
    They were saying that Bernie was trying to get a race on the Strip. Wonder where this debacle leaves that plan......



    As for F1 being elitist, I think we can say that to drive a car competively for a job you are already elitist, whether F1, Indy cars or Nascar.



    This is no longer about being a sport, it is a business.
  • Reply 17 of 61
    If Michelin had supplied the correct tires (read: tires that didn't shift the belts when subjected to vertical g loads), then the race would have continued as it should have. The only blame Ferrari have in this is not compromising the fact that they showed up with all of the correct equipment to race and, as such, not agreeing to slow down the corner for the other teams who were not ready.



    It's not like they added the corner-banking on Thursday night. Michelin were asleep at the wheel, so to speak, and will feel the pain of this if the FIA go ahead with one tire supplier in 2008.
  • Reply 18 of 61
    omegaomega Posts: 427member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by audiopollution

    If Michelin had supplied the correct tires (read: tires that didn't shift the belts when subjected to vertical g loads), then the race would have continued as it should have.



    I was under the impression that even the new tyres they shipped over (and arrived Sunday morning) were not going to perform safely on this circuit, which leads you to believe that maybe that they had NO tyres suitable for this circuit.



    Looks more and more like a control tyre will be back in the future, and no guesses who it comes from.
  • Reply 19 of 61
    Quote:

    Originally posted by audiopollution

    If Michelin had supplied the correct tires (read: tires that didn't shift the belts when subjected to vertical g loads), then the race would have continued as it should have. The only blame Ferrari have in this is not compromising the fact that they showed up with all of the correct equipment to race and, as such, not agreeing to slow down the corner for the other teams who were not ready.



    It's not like they added the corner-banking on Thursday night. Michelin were asleep at the wheel, so to speak, and will feel the pain of this if the FIA go ahead with one tire supplier in 2008.




    In fairness, they don't do any testing at Indy to get full info on it. And you're right Ferrari don't have any blame, no-one sympathised with them when they had tyre problems, so why should they stop when they have an advantage.



    Also I can see the interest in Indycars, they all have the same spec and from what I've seen fewer rules about what they can do. They usually have closer races, which any F1 fan has been dying for, and we are only just getting now.
  • Reply 20 of 61
    danmacmandanmacman Posts: 773member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by the cool gut

    ++

    Nascar driver's are just a bunch of hill billies, with not much sense (eg. rusty wallace). The cars travel at the same speed for the entire duration of the race, and only turn in one direction. Not much of a sport, auto racing wise.




    I would love to see an F1 Driver try and handle a 3400 pound stockcar with 800 horsepower and none of the technology that he is used to. I highly doubt that that driver could handle himself with such a heavy and poor handling racecar (compared to F1 and IRL) in a 43 car pack at 190 mph - not to mention bump drafting and racing three and four wide into a corner.



    As for the hillbilly reference, Rusty is from St. Louis, point leader Jimmie Johnson is from the San Diego area, yesterday's race winner, Greg Biffle, is from Oregon.



    I think your disdain for Nascar is blinding you from its reality.
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