What in the world are you talking about? Please tell me how this helps someone waiting for a long, long overdue iBook update? No one is arguing about their sales/stock performace. Yeah, it's good news but it doesn't make a damn bit of difference when shopping for a new computer. Their iBook and Mac mini are looking pitiful. How does a good stock price help? It has nothing to do with it.
it means investors are betting with there $$$$ that apple's value will INCREASE more value for apple means they have momentum for more product sales, more stuff for you and me we WANT apple to grow in popularity and solidify a growing future
so you want them to sell less???? the value of the apple products actual is much greater than a pc because of the less frequent upgrades imo--just look at resale value. g3's still are popular used my g3 isn't realy obsolete . i don't think any update in the next 6-8 months will be breathtaking, that will be left for intel products
it means investors are betting with there $$$$ that apple's value will INCREASE more value for apple means they have momentum for more product sales, more stuff for you and me we WANT apple to grow in popularity and solidify a growing future
so you want them to sell less???? the value of the apple products actual is much greater than a pc because of the less frequent upgrades imo--just look at resale value. g3's still are popular used my g3 isn't realy obsolete . i don't think any update in the next 6-8 months will be breathtaking, that will be left for intel products
Oh for the love of God. For the third time I am not talking about Apple's sales or stock price. It has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Why do people keep bringing it up? I'm talking about the fact that the iBook and Mac mini are in desperate need of an update. That's it. What the hell do investors have to do with the sorry state of the iBook?
Customer: "Boy , the iBook sure looks outdated"
Salesperson: "But AAPL stock is high!"
Customer: "Um, what does that have to do with it?"
Salesperson: "Apple is selling a lot of computers these days"
Customer: "But the iBook is outdated, it's become a poor value.
Oh for the love of God. For the third time I am not talking about Apple's sales or stock price. It has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Why do people keep bringing it up? I'm talking about the fact that the iBook and Mac mini are in desperate need of an update. That's it. What the hell do investors have to do with the sorry state of the iBook?
Customer: "Boy , the iBook sure looks outdated"
Salesperson: "But AAPL stock is high!"
Customer: "Um, what does that have to do with it?"
Salesperson: "Apple is selling a lot of computers these days"
Customer: "But the iBook is outdated, it's become a poor value.
Salesperson: "But AAPL stock is high!"
Customer: Leaves store is disgust and confusion.
Ah, someone gets it:
AMEN...imagine that dell was trying to pedal that slow of a chip for ~999...well...have a look for yourself
For the iBooks target, the G4 is great, it can handle all the basic stuff and then some, and I remember that about two years ago, you Apple zellots were preaching that "MHZ dont matter" and "my 1.2 ghz (where the hell is all the)PowerMac G4 can whip your 2.8 ghz Pentium4!!!!"...Blind Mac/Appole fanboys, dinner is served, the entree will be crow, would you like original recipe or extra crispy?
Oh for the love of God. For the third time I am not talking about Apple's sales or stock price. It has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
You said:
Does Apple still make computers?
Answer:
Yes, as a matter of fact, they're making (and more importantly selling) more than ever.
You responded:
Apple no longer discloses the sales numbers of individual model lines for "competitive reasons" or in other words, to hide which models are selling well and which models are selling poorly. They can be selling more models overall but that doesn't mean all models are selling equally well.
I said:
So? They are still selling more than ever. They could all be Mac minis but they are still Macs and the user base is growing faster than the industry as a whole.
You replied:
What in the world are you talking about? Please tell me how this helps someone waiting for a long, long overdue iBook update? No one is arguing about their sales/stock performace.
I now reply:
We were.
I can't read you mind about you looking for an iBook update. You made a post about Apple still making computers - not a word about you looking for an iBook.
How about stating your complain in your first post instead of dropping a hint now and then?
What in the world are you talking about? Please tell me how this helps someone waiting for a long, long overdue iBook update? No one is arguing about their sales/stock performace. Yeah, it's good news but it doesn't make a damn bit of difference when shopping for a new computer. Their iBook and Mac mini are looking pitiful. How does a good stock price help? It has nothing to do with it.
Hey, I resent this implication! Their tower lines are also woefully outdated! 2+ years without a hardware change? What the hell is that?
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
So? They are still selling more than ever. They could all be Mac minis but they are still Macs and the user base is growing faster than the industry as a whole.
I don't see Dell disclosing numbers on each of their numerous models either, and at least we don't have to have a lot of threads where couch CEOs are blabbering about how good or bad each model is selling - and why.
First, if they are all mac minis, Apple's in some serious trouble because the margins just aren't there for the mini (well, the percentage might be, but $$$ wise, they'd need to sell three minis to get the same amount of profit from a tower or pbook). Second, if its all minis, don't be touting a growing user base. Most of the people I hear about buying minis are buying a second or third mac ("OMG, it'll look so great in my entertainment center! If only it had any of the features that would be useful in an entertainment center!" to "Man, I'm buying one of these and use it as a file server in my closet!" to "Check it out dudes! I have absolutely no life, and too much money and time on my hands, so I've pimped up my car by installing a mini, so now I can read emails and watch DVDs when I should be making sure I don't run over that guy in the crosswalk or rearending that idiot who insists on driving the speed limit!").
As for Dell, now you are comparing Apples to Oranges. Dell builds its systems JIT, and most of their models use the same form factors/housings. Which means if no one buys the Dimension 4700, who cares. They don't have a warehouse full of them collecting dust. They haven't wasted a ton of money on housings or manufacturing like Apple.
Of course, Dell also has been known to implement new technologies a lot quicker than Apple's "We'll get to it when we get around to it. Although don't expect anything until we update the motherboard for a new CPU or something as well, because we can't be wasting time adding PCI-Express to the same old G5 chip computers. That would be wasteful."
Although Apple is way out in the forefront on the whole PCI-X explosion. For people who need to use one or more of the 6 PCI cards that support the spec, man, Apple is the way to go!
Their tower lines are also woefully outdated! 2+ years without a hardware change? What the hell is that?
You say the G5 towers are outdated? Look at the PC world how many people really have the latest computers?
Most of the people I know with PC's are running 4-5 year old machines that don't have any USB ports. What they do have are color coded plugs meant to be idiot proof in plugging the keyboard and mouse into the right port.
Quote:
Of course, Dell also has been known to implement new technologies a lot quicker than Apple's "We'll get to it when we get around to it.
If this is true then why is Intel embracing Apple as a way to push its newest technologies. Why hasn't Dell adopted it already?
It's true that just because some new technology comes out as the new hot thing Apple does not just slap it into its box. But Apple has been first on many important technologies that other OEM's were slow to adopt. USB and Firewire being two of the most significant.
You say the G5 towers are outdated? Look at the PC world how many people really have the latest computers?
Most of the people I know with PC's are running 4-5 year old machines that don't have any USB ports. What they do have are color coded plugs meant to be idiot proof in plugging the keyboard and mouse into the right port.
What in the hell do I care whether some guy is running a 5 year-old Dell or not. The point is, if you go to buy a NEW PC, its not likely to be the same exact PC your neighbor bought two years ago. PCs, motherboards, chipsets, etc, get updated a whole lot more than the snails pace of Apple's hardware.
And what's this snide comment about color-coded plugs? You prefer that all plugs are all the same, forcing users to guess which port to plug a mouse vs. a keyboard in? Yeah, that makes loads of sense. Lets increase support costs rather than make things SIMPLE. Hell, everyone says "Macs are so simple", and PCs try to make it simpler, now its no longer about being simple, its "PC users are idiots, they need color coordination!"
I'd also like to point out that Apple used to (and probably still does) mark all their components with symbols so you'd know that this cable is a printer cable and needs to plug into that printer port, not the serial port, and not the ADB port (which is for the keyboard, you know). Were you complaining when they did that?
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
If this is true then why is Intel embracing Apple as a way to push its newest technologies. Why hasn't Dell adopted it already?
It's true that just because some new technology comes out as the new hot thing Apple does not just slap it into its box. But Apple has been first on many important technologies that other OEM's were slow to adopt. USB and Firewire being two of the most significant.
First, Intel's not embracing Apple to push its newest tech. I've not seen one thing from Intel talking about how this is now going to make USB3 or their new chipsets reach market any quicker. Second, Dell adopts Intel's stuff quite quickly. In fact, they're usually right there when intel's announcing a new motherboard or chip, having product available to order right away.
I bought a Dell at Christmastime, a cheapo sub $700 4600, and guess what, it came with a PCI-Express slot. Plus several PCI slots. Wow! Can't get PCI except on a $2000 mac. Can't get PCI express at all.
USB was first mainly adopted by Apple, true. Firewire doesn't count, since they invented it, it took them YEARS to finally add it to their motherboards, and it still hasn't reached a saturation state where that many people get it with their computers (most computers might offer it as an add-on, only some have it standard). USB2 has taken over from firewire, whether you like it or not.
But besides those? Apple likes playing with their own stuff (ADC) rather than go standard, or they'll go standard along with anyone else. But when was the last time they offered up some truly new useful feature? Hell, macs don't have decent audio out capabilities (stereo only, with the possible exception of the digital ports on the towers). Their video is average (to be kind) and only updatable on the high-end machine (Apple can't figure out, apparently, how to make a video card upgradable on any machine except the overly large tower).
And what's so hard about getting PCI-Express into a Mac? But then, since Apple has no market to speak of, it'd probably cost them a bundle to develop it, then have to write or help write the drivers for it, since the board makers don't want to waste their time doing that. And then the cards will cost $200 more for the mac then the same card for windows. So, yeah, you probably got a point. Too bad none of this gets helped by going to Intel, except if Intel makes the mobo, they'll have the slot (but not the drivers or the cards).
And forget that. What's so hard, if you're going to have a computer that's like 2 feet high and 18" long, that you can't find any room to plug in any external devices except two hard drives and a single optical drive? You ever look inside one of those towers? Everything is designed on looks and keeping them cool, not about expandibility or usability. Who'd want a second optical drive? Or want more than two internal hard drives? Apparently you're an idiot if you think you do. What's a little desk clutter with all those external components when that tower looks so nice and neat (sitting under the desk, where no one can see it)?
[B] PCs, motherboards, chipsets, etc, get updated a whole lot more than the snails pace of Apple's hardware.
Quote:
I'd also like to point out that Apple used to (and probably still does) mark all their components with symbols so you'd know that this cable is a printer cable and needs to plug into that printer port, not the serial port, and not the ADB port (which is for the keyboard, you know). Were you complaining when they did that?
My comment wasn't about the labeling of cable per se. It was about the lack of USB.
My point really is that you are saying G5's are outdated because they don't have features such as PCI-Express. Which is currently an expensive technology that is of limited use right now.
Contrast that with someone running a computer that has PS/2 ports and no USB or Firewire ports, which are of much more functionality to the average user than PCI-Express would be.
When you look at that what does out dated really mean?
Quote:
First, Intel's not embracing Apple to push its newest tech. I've not seen one thing from Intel talking about how this is now going to make USB3 or their new chipsets reach market any quicker.
Chuck Mulloy, Intel?s corporate spokesman
?The dynamic will be different in the marketplace overall. Apple has pushed the envelope historically?that competition to push is good for consumers and good for the market in general. It will reinvigorate the amount of innovation out there.?
"Apple has taken the lead in pushing technology such as USB, FireWire, and wireless networking -- Intel says that type of innovation is what it strives for as well. It?s a very good fit,?
Mulloy said. ?Apple has a track record of being the most innovative PC company, and we think we are very innovative as a semiconductor manufacturer.?
What did he say?
"Apple has a track record of being the most innovative PC company..."
And what's this snide comment about color-coded plugs? You prefer that all plugs are all the same, forcing users to guess which port to plug a mouse vs. a keyboard in? Yeah, that makes loads of sense. Lets increase support costs rather than make things SIMPLE. Hell, everyone says "Macs are so simple", and PCs try to make it simpler, now its no longer about being simple, its "PC users are idiots, they need color coordination!"
I'd also like to point out that Apple used to (and probably still does) mark all their components with symbols so you'd know that this cable is a printer cable and needs to plug into that printer port, not the serial port, and not the ADB port (which is for the keyboard, you know). Were you complaining when they did that?
It's not that PC users are idiots for needing color coordination, it's that the PCs (unlike Macs) haven't evolved past that point. Get a Mac and try as hard as you can to plug the USB based mouse and keyboard into the wrong ports. It can't be done.
My Dell on the other hand has to have the keyboard plugged into the pink port and the mouse plugged into the green port...I think, I'm not sure...I have 3rd party products and they don't have matching colors. I do know that my USB Wifi adapter needs to be plugged into only one of the included USB ports, but again off hand I forget which one. In both these situations, I have to turn the case around and match the icons...not hard mind you, but not as simple as the Mac.
By the way, even back before the Macs had USB, you could plug a printer cable or modem cable into either serial port and they still worked. Neither cable would fit into the ADB ports. The ADB ports were similar to the PS/2 ports only simpler since it didn't matter which ADB port was used for the keyboard or the mouse. The only cable that could fit in an incorrect port on the Mac was back before they included built-in Ethernet and the DB-9 networking cable could've been mistakingly plugged into the modem port with the large phone icon next to it.
But besides those? Apple likes playing with their own stuff (ADC) rather than go standard, or they'll go standard along with anyone else.
When Apple came out with ADC, DVI was not yet standard. ADC allowed Apple to begin implementing DVI and still support VGA, because most of the PC world was still analog VGA.
Once DVI became more standard Apple switched to all DVI.
Quote:
But when was the last time they offered up some truly new useful feature? Hell, macs don't have decent audio out capabilities (stereo only, with the possible exception of the digital ports on the towers).
Funny you say that as a party trick. I connect my Power Book through the mini stereo plug to an amplifier, and play music from iTunes through the large stereo speakers.
I also show off by connecting through the VGA port to S Video how my Power Book can be used as a DVD player.
Quote:
And what's so hard about getting PCI-Express into a Mac?
I know, and there is so much overwhelming demand for PCI-Express cards. There may be a logic to why Apple does not have it yet. But I'm sure when they are ready Power Mac's will have PCI-Express.
It's not that PC users are idiots for needing color coordination, it's that the PCs (unlike Macs) haven't evolved past that point. Get a Mac and try as hard as you can to plug the USB based mouse and keyboard into the wrong ports. It can't be done.
No, but you sure can screw up something if you try to force the thing in upside down. USB is such a pain in this regard, trying to remember which side the stupid thing is supposed to plug in. Apple's serial ports, the PS/2 ports on PCs, and a few others also succomb to this stupidity of not easily determining which way Tab A is supposed to go into slot B. (Those damn PS/2 plugs, with their freakin' arrows to indicate 'this side up', which of course could mean, "this side to the side" in a tower, are the worse). And its not 100% clear to everyone that the mouse plugs into the keyboard. (BTW, just to point this out, but since the Professional Macs only have two USB ports on the back of your computer, and one is for the keyboard, what if you have a scanner AND a printer. You're screwed into buying a USB hub, make sure its powered, etc. Can't apple figure out how to put more than three freakin' USB ports on their computers? Esp. since they claim (lie) that they have five?)
Quote:
Originally posted by macslut
My Dell on the other hand has to have the keyboard plugged into the pink port and the mouse plugged into the green port...I think, I'm not sure...I have 3rd party products and they don't have matching colors. I do know that my USB Wifi adapter needs to be plugged into only one of the included USB ports, but again off hand I forget which one. In both these situations, I have to turn the case around and match the icons...not hard mind you, but not as simple as the Mac.
Well, I'm always crawling behind my mac just trying to find the stupid-assed ports, just like my PC. Not that I go and plug and unplug my keyboard so much that it matters (how anyone can plug this stuff in without seeing them anyway is beyond me, but then, maybe everyone doesn't have the computer in such a way where access can only be done under the desk). But trying to swap out my second USB port with a couple of different cables caused me mountains of time until I realized that I was trying to plug it into a firewire port, not a USB one.
As for your WiFi adapter, I'm not sure why any USB port wouldn't work, but if your dell only has a couple of powered ones, how do you know? Is there actually a marking on the back of the computer that says what the USB ports are for? (Just wondering, I don't have a USB adapter for my PC).
Quote:
Originally posted by macslut
By the way, even back before the Macs had USB, you could plug a printer cable or modem cable into either serial port and they still worked. Neither cable would fit into the ADB ports. The ADB ports were similar to the PS/2 ports only simpler since it didn't matter which ADB port was used for the keyboard or the mouse. The only cable that could fit in an incorrect port on the Mac was back before they included built-in Ethernet and the DB-9 networking cable could've been mistakingly plugged into the modem port with the large phone icon next to it.
You could plug in a printer cable into the modem port and vice versa, but it wouldn't work until you realized you did that, went to the chooser, and flipped the settings. Plus, one of those ports (the printer, I believe) got an extra pin/hole because it was used for networking (this might not have been initially, but it ended up there sooner or later). Oh, wait, that's what you said.
And, yes, you certainly could plug (or, again, attempt to plug) the round serial cable into the round ADB port. It might not fit, but you sure can try.
When Apple came out with ADC, DVI was not yet standard. ADC allowed Apple to begin implementing DVI and still support VGA, because most of the PC world was still analog VGA.
Once DVI became more standard Apple switched to all DVI.
Well, if it wasn't a set standard, it was definitely close to it, because people complained the second ADC was announced that Apple was going their own way again, etc.
And ADC had nothing to do with backward compatibility, because you can get that from DVI as it is (hey, look, is that a DVI-to-VGA adapter in my Mac's box?). And I don't recall them actually providing an adapter anyway, they just had two ports on their video card.
Oh, and they switched to DVI because no one else went with their standard, basically stranding those people with ADC monitors to get expensive adapters to convert from DVI to ADC.
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
Funny you say that as a party trick. I connect my Power Book through the mini stereo plug to an amplifier, and play music from iTunes through the large stereo speakers.
I also show off by connecting through the VGA port to S Video how my Power Book can be used as a DVD player.
Great, except its not Dolby Surround 5.1, which you can get from pretty much any PC, or even with a cheap-o add-on card (I know, now I'm not playing fair, since you can't add cards to 99% of all macs out there). Its just stereo. Wow, that's so 1970's.
And I plugged my iBook into my widescreen TV to watch a DVD as well. Didn't think the picture was that clear or great (blocky in several scenes, it seemed like). Maybe just not up to the iBooks capabilities.
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
I know, and there is so much overwhelming demand for PCI-Express cards. There may be a logic to why Apple does not have it yet. But I'm sure when they are ready Power Mac's will have PCI-Express.
Great, and Apple will offer them just as Wintel is going to PCI-Express2.
Comments
Originally posted by 1984
What in the world are you talking about? Please tell me how this helps someone waiting for a long, long overdue iBook update? No one is arguing about their sales/stock performace. Yeah, it's good news but it doesn't make a damn bit of difference when shopping for a new computer. Their iBook and Mac mini are looking pitiful. How does a good stock price help? It has nothing to do with it.
it means investors are betting with there $$$$ that apple's value will INCREASE more value for apple means they have momentum for more product sales, more stuff for you and me we WANT apple to grow in popularity and solidify a growing future
so you want them to sell less???? the value of the apple products actual is much greater than a pc because of the less frequent upgrades imo--just look at resale value. g3's still are popular used my g3 isn't realy obsolete . i don't think any update in the next 6-8 months will be breathtaking, that will be left for intel products
Originally posted by NOFEER
it means investors are betting with there $$$$ that apple's value will INCREASE more value for apple means they have momentum for more product sales, more stuff for you and me we WANT apple to grow in popularity and solidify a growing future
so you want them to sell less???? the value of the apple products actual is much greater than a pc because of the less frequent upgrades imo--just look at resale value. g3's still are popular used my g3 isn't realy obsolete . i don't think any update in the next 6-8 months will be breathtaking, that will be left for intel products
Oh for the love of God. For the third time I am not talking about Apple's sales or stock price. It has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Why do people keep bringing it up? I'm talking about the fact that the iBook and Mac mini are in desperate need of an update. That's it. What the hell do investors have to do with the sorry state of the iBook?
Customer: "Boy , the iBook sure looks outdated"
Salesperson: "But AAPL stock is high!"
Customer: "Um, what does that have to do with it?"
Salesperson: "Apple is selling a lot of computers these days"
Customer: "But the iBook is outdated, it's become a poor value.
Salesperson: "But AAPL stock is high!"
Customer: Leaves store is disgust and confusion.
Ah, someone gets it:
Originally posted by 1984
Oh for the love of God. For the third time I am not talking about Apple's sales or stock price. It has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Why do people keep bringing it up? I'm talking about the fact that the iBook and Mac mini are in desperate need of an update. That's it. What the hell do investors have to do with the sorry state of the iBook?
Customer: "Boy , the iBook sure looks outdated"
Salesperson: "But AAPL stock is high!"
Customer: "Um, what does that have to do with it?"
Salesperson: "Apple is selling a lot of computers these days"
Customer: "But the iBook is outdated, it's become a poor value.
Salesperson: "But AAPL stock is high!"
Customer: Leaves store is disgust and confusion.
Ah, someone gets it:
AMEN...imagine that dell was trying to pedal that slow of a chip for ~999...well...have a look for yourself
For the iBooks target, the G4 is great, it can handle all the basic stuff and then some, and I remember that about two years ago, you Apple zellots were preaching that "MHZ dont matter" and "my 1.2 ghz (where the hell is all the)PowerMac G4 can whip your 2.8 ghz Pentium4!!!!"...Blind Mac/Appole fanboys, dinner is served, the entree will be crow, would you like original recipe or extra crispy?
Originally posted by 1984
Oh for the love of God. For the third time I am not talking about Apple's sales or stock price. It has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
You said:
Does Apple still make computers?
Answer:
Yes, as a matter of fact, they're making (and more importantly selling) more than ever.
You responded:
Apple no longer discloses the sales numbers of individual model lines for "competitive reasons" or in other words, to hide which models are selling well and which models are selling poorly. They can be selling more models overall but that doesn't mean all models are selling equally well.
I said:
So? They are still selling more than ever. They could all be Mac minis but they are still Macs and the user base is growing faster than the industry as a whole.
You replied:
What in the world are you talking about? Please tell me how this helps someone waiting for a long, long overdue iBook update? No one is arguing about their sales/stock performace.
I now reply:
We were.
I can't read you mind about you looking for an iBook update. You made a post about Apple still making computers - not a word about you looking for an iBook.
How about stating your complain in your first post instead of dropping a hint now and then?
Originally posted by 1984
What in the world are you talking about? Please tell me how this helps someone waiting for a long, long overdue iBook update? No one is arguing about their sales/stock performace. Yeah, it's good news but it doesn't make a damn bit of difference when shopping for a new computer. Their iBook and Mac mini are looking pitiful. How does a good stock price help? It has nothing to do with it.
Hey, I resent this implication! Their tower lines are also woefully outdated! 2+ years without a hardware change? What the hell is that?
Originally posted by JLL
So? They are still selling more than ever. They could all be Mac minis but they are still Macs and the user base is growing faster than the industry as a whole.
I don't see Dell disclosing numbers on each of their numerous models either, and at least we don't have to have a lot of threads where couch CEOs are blabbering about how good or bad each model is selling - and why.
First, if they are all mac minis, Apple's in some serious trouble because the margins just aren't there for the mini (well, the percentage might be, but $$$ wise, they'd need to sell three minis to get the same amount of profit from a tower or pbook). Second, if its all minis, don't be touting a growing user base. Most of the people I hear about buying minis are buying a second or third mac ("OMG, it'll look so great in my entertainment center! If only it had any of the features that would be useful in an entertainment center!" to "Man, I'm buying one of these and use it as a file server in my closet!" to "Check it out dudes! I have absolutely no life, and too much money and time on my hands, so I've pimped up my car by installing a mini, so now I can read emails and watch DVDs when I should be making sure I don't run over that guy in the crosswalk or rearending that idiot who insists on driving the speed limit!").
As for Dell, now you are comparing Apples to Oranges. Dell builds its systems JIT, and most of their models use the same form factors/housings. Which means if no one buys the Dimension 4700, who cares. They don't have a warehouse full of them collecting dust. They haven't wasted a ton of money on housings or manufacturing like Apple.
Of course, Dell also has been known to implement new technologies a lot quicker than Apple's "We'll get to it when we get around to it. Although don't expect anything until we update the motherboard for a new CPU or something as well, because we can't be wasting time adding PCI-Express to the same old G5 chip computers. That would be wasteful."
Although Apple is way out in the forefront on the whole PCI-X explosion. For people who need to use one or more of the 6 PCI cards that support the spec, man, Apple is the way to go!
Originally posted by Louzer
First, if they are all mac minis, Apple's in some serious trouble because the margins just aren't there for the mini
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...605218-6257466
There are a number of apple computers more popular than the mini
2. 20" iMac
3. 15" powerbook, 1.67
4. 12" ibook
5. 12" powerbook 60g
6. 12" powerbook 80g
14. 1.25 mini
17. 17" iMac, 2.0
20. 15" powerbook, 1.5
23. 14" ibook
36. dual 2.0 powermac
39. 17" imac, 1.8
55. 1.42 mini
Their tower lines are also woefully outdated! 2+ years without a hardware change? What the hell is that?
You say the G5 towers are outdated? Look at the PC world how many people really have the latest computers?
Most of the people I know with PC's are running 4-5 year old machines that don't have any USB ports. What they do have are color coded plugs meant to be idiot proof in plugging the keyboard and mouse into the right port.
Of course, Dell also has been known to implement new technologies a lot quicker than Apple's "We'll get to it when we get around to it.
If this is true then why is Intel embracing Apple as a way to push its newest technologies. Why hasn't Dell adopted it already?
It's true that just because some new technology comes out as the new hot thing Apple does not just slap it into its box. But Apple has been first on many important technologies that other OEM's were slow to adopt. USB and Firewire being two of the most significant.
Originally posted by TenoBell
You say the G5 towers are outdated? Look at the PC world how many people really have the latest computers?
Most of the people I know with PC's are running 4-5 year old machines that don't have any USB ports. What they do have are color coded plugs meant to be idiot proof in plugging the keyboard and mouse into the right port.
What in the hell do I care whether some guy is running a 5 year-old Dell or not. The point is, if you go to buy a NEW PC, its not likely to be the same exact PC your neighbor bought two years ago. PCs, motherboards, chipsets, etc, get updated a whole lot more than the snails pace of Apple's hardware.
And what's this snide comment about color-coded plugs? You prefer that all plugs are all the same, forcing users to guess which port to plug a mouse vs. a keyboard in? Yeah, that makes loads of sense. Lets increase support costs rather than make things SIMPLE. Hell, everyone says "Macs are so simple", and PCs try to make it simpler, now its no longer about being simple, its "PC users are idiots, they need color coordination!"
I'd also like to point out that Apple used to (and probably still does) mark all their components with symbols so you'd know that this cable is a printer cable and needs to plug into that printer port, not the serial port, and not the ADB port (which is for the keyboard, you know). Were you complaining when they did that?
Originally posted by TenoBell
If this is true then why is Intel embracing Apple as a way to push its newest technologies. Why hasn't Dell adopted it already?
It's true that just because some new technology comes out as the new hot thing Apple does not just slap it into its box. But Apple has been first on many important technologies that other OEM's were slow to adopt. USB and Firewire being two of the most significant.
First, Intel's not embracing Apple to push its newest tech. I've not seen one thing from Intel talking about how this is now going to make USB3 or their new chipsets reach market any quicker. Second, Dell adopts Intel's stuff quite quickly. In fact, they're usually right there when intel's announcing a new motherboard or chip, having product available to order right away.
I bought a Dell at Christmastime, a cheapo sub $700 4600, and guess what, it came with a PCI-Express slot. Plus several PCI slots. Wow! Can't get PCI except on a $2000 mac. Can't get PCI express at all.
USB was first mainly adopted by Apple, true. Firewire doesn't count, since they invented it, it took them YEARS to finally add it to their motherboards, and it still hasn't reached a saturation state where that many people get it with their computers (most computers might offer it as an add-on, only some have it standard). USB2 has taken over from firewire, whether you like it or not.
But besides those? Apple likes playing with their own stuff (ADC) rather than go standard, or they'll go standard along with anyone else. But when was the last time they offered up some truly new useful feature? Hell, macs don't have decent audio out capabilities (stereo only, with the possible exception of the digital ports on the towers). Their video is average (to be kind) and only updatable on the high-end machine (Apple can't figure out, apparently, how to make a video card upgradable on any machine except the overly large tower).
And what's so hard about getting PCI-Express into a Mac? But then, since Apple has no market to speak of, it'd probably cost them a bundle to develop it, then have to write or help write the drivers for it, since the board makers don't want to waste their time doing that. And then the cards will cost $200 more for the mac then the same card for windows. So, yeah, you probably got a point. Too bad none of this gets helped by going to Intel, except if Intel makes the mobo, they'll have the slot (but not the drivers or the cards).
And forget that. What's so hard, if you're going to have a computer that's like 2 feet high and 18" long, that you can't find any room to plug in any external devices except two hard drives and a single optical drive? You ever look inside one of those towers? Everything is designed on looks and keeping them cool, not about expandibility or usability. Who'd want a second optical drive? Or want more than two internal hard drives? Apparently you're an idiot if you think you do. What's a little desk clutter with all those external components when that tower looks so nice and neat (sitting under the desk, where no one can see it)?
Originally posted by Louzer
[B] PCs, motherboards, chipsets, etc, get updated a whole lot more than the snails pace of Apple's hardware.
I'd also like to point out that Apple used to (and probably still does) mark all their components with symbols so you'd know that this cable is a printer cable and needs to plug into that printer port, not the serial port, and not the ADB port (which is for the keyboard, you know). Were you complaining when they did that?
My comment wasn't about the labeling of cable per se. It was about the lack of USB.
My point really is that you are saying G5's are outdated because they don't have features such as PCI-Express. Which is currently an expensive technology that is of limited use right now.
Contrast that with someone running a computer that has PS/2 ports and no USB or Firewire ports, which are of much more functionality to the average user than PCI-Express would be.
When you look at that what does out dated really mean?
First, Intel's not embracing Apple to push its newest tech. I've not seen one thing from Intel talking about how this is now going to make USB3 or their new chipsets reach market any quicker.
Chuck Mulloy, Intel?s corporate spokesman
?The dynamic will be different in the marketplace overall. Apple has pushed the envelope historically?that competition to push is good for consumers and good for the market in general. It will reinvigorate the amount of innovation out there.?
"Apple has taken the lead in pushing technology such as USB, FireWire, and wireless networking -- Intel says that type of innovation is what it strives for as well. It?s a very good fit,?
Mulloy said. ?Apple has a track record of being the most innovative PC company, and we think we are very innovative as a semiconductor manufacturer.?
What did he say?
"Apple has a track record of being the most innovative PC company..."
Oh OK.
....why is this thread heading away from it's humble beginnings!?!!?!?!?
Originally posted by Louzer
And what's this snide comment about color-coded plugs? You prefer that all plugs are all the same, forcing users to guess which port to plug a mouse vs. a keyboard in? Yeah, that makes loads of sense. Lets increase support costs rather than make things SIMPLE. Hell, everyone says "Macs are so simple", and PCs try to make it simpler, now its no longer about being simple, its "PC users are idiots, they need color coordination!"
I'd also like to point out that Apple used to (and probably still does) mark all their components with symbols so you'd know that this cable is a printer cable and needs to plug into that printer port, not the serial port, and not the ADB port (which is for the keyboard, you know). Were you complaining when they did that?
It's not that PC users are idiots for needing color coordination, it's that the PCs (unlike Macs) haven't evolved past that point. Get a Mac and try as hard as you can to plug the USB based mouse and keyboard into the wrong ports. It can't be done.
My Dell on the other hand has to have the keyboard plugged into the pink port and the mouse plugged into the green port...I think, I'm not sure...I have 3rd party products and they don't have matching colors. I do know that my USB Wifi adapter needs to be plugged into only one of the included USB ports, but again off hand I forget which one. In both these situations, I have to turn the case around and match the icons...not hard mind you, but not as simple as the Mac.
By the way, even back before the Macs had USB, you could plug a printer cable or modem cable into either serial port and they still worked. Neither cable would fit into the ADB ports. The ADB ports were similar to the PS/2 ports only simpler since it didn't matter which ADB port was used for the keyboard or the mouse. The only cable that could fit in an incorrect port on the Mac was back before they included built-in Ethernet and the DB-9 networking cable could've been mistakingly plugged into the modem port with the large phone icon next to it.
Originally posted by Louzer
But besides those? Apple likes playing with their own stuff (ADC) rather than go standard, or they'll go standard along with anyone else.
When Apple came out with ADC, DVI was not yet standard. ADC allowed Apple to begin implementing DVI and still support VGA, because most of the PC world was still analog VGA.
Once DVI became more standard Apple switched to all DVI.
But when was the last time they offered up some truly new useful feature? Hell, macs don't have decent audio out capabilities (stereo only, with the possible exception of the digital ports on the towers).
Funny you say that as a party trick. I connect my Power Book through the mini stereo plug to an amplifier, and play music from iTunes through the large stereo speakers.
I also show off by connecting through the VGA port to S Video how my Power Book can be used as a DVD player.
And what's so hard about getting PCI-Express into a Mac?
I know, and there is so much overwhelming demand for PCI-Express cards. There may be a logic to why Apple does not have it yet. But I'm sure when they are ready Power Mac's will have PCI-Express.
Originally posted by macslut
It's not that PC users are idiots for needing color coordination, it's that the PCs (unlike Macs) haven't evolved past that point. Get a Mac and try as hard as you can to plug the USB based mouse and keyboard into the wrong ports. It can't be done.
No, but you sure can screw up something if you try to force the thing in upside down. USB is such a pain in this regard, trying to remember which side the stupid thing is supposed to plug in. Apple's serial ports, the PS/2 ports on PCs, and a few others also succomb to this stupidity of not easily determining which way Tab A is supposed to go into slot B. (Those damn PS/2 plugs, with their freakin' arrows to indicate 'this side up', which of course could mean, "this side to the side" in a tower, are the worse). And its not 100% clear to everyone that the mouse plugs into the keyboard. (BTW, just to point this out, but since the Professional Macs only have two USB ports on the back of your computer, and one is for the keyboard, what if you have a scanner AND a printer. You're screwed into buying a USB hub, make sure its powered, etc. Can't apple figure out how to put more than three freakin' USB ports on their computers? Esp. since they claim (lie) that they have five?)
Originally posted by macslut
My Dell on the other hand has to have the keyboard plugged into the pink port and the mouse plugged into the green port...I think, I'm not sure...I have 3rd party products and they don't have matching colors. I do know that my USB Wifi adapter needs to be plugged into only one of the included USB ports, but again off hand I forget which one. In both these situations, I have to turn the case around and match the icons...not hard mind you, but not as simple as the Mac.
Well, I'm always crawling behind my mac just trying to find the stupid-assed ports, just like my PC. Not that I go and plug and unplug my keyboard so much that it matters (how anyone can plug this stuff in without seeing them anyway is beyond me, but then, maybe everyone doesn't have the computer in such a way where access can only be done under the desk). But trying to swap out my second USB port with a couple of different cables caused me mountains of time until I realized that I was trying to plug it into a firewire port, not a USB one.
As for your WiFi adapter, I'm not sure why any USB port wouldn't work, but if your dell only has a couple of powered ones, how do you know? Is there actually a marking on the back of the computer that says what the USB ports are for? (Just wondering, I don't have a USB adapter for my PC).
Originally posted by macslut
By the way, even back before the Macs had USB, you could plug a printer cable or modem cable into either serial port and they still worked. Neither cable would fit into the ADB ports. The ADB ports were similar to the PS/2 ports only simpler since it didn't matter which ADB port was used for the keyboard or the mouse. The only cable that could fit in an incorrect port on the Mac was back before they included built-in Ethernet and the DB-9 networking cable could've been mistakingly plugged into the modem port with the large phone icon next to it.
You could plug in a printer cable into the modem port and vice versa, but it wouldn't work until you realized you did that, went to the chooser, and flipped the settings. Plus, one of those ports (the printer, I believe) got an extra pin/hole because it was used for networking (this might not have been initially, but it ended up there sooner or later). Oh, wait, that's what you said.
And, yes, you certainly could plug (or, again, attempt to plug) the round serial cable into the round ADB port. It might not fit, but you sure can try.
Originally posted by TenoBell
When Apple came out with ADC, DVI was not yet standard. ADC allowed Apple to begin implementing DVI and still support VGA, because most of the PC world was still analog VGA.
Once DVI became more standard Apple switched to all DVI.
Well, if it wasn't a set standard, it was definitely close to it, because people complained the second ADC was announced that Apple was going their own way again, etc.
And ADC had nothing to do with backward compatibility, because you can get that from DVI as it is (hey, look, is that a DVI-to-VGA adapter in my Mac's box?). And I don't recall them actually providing an adapter anyway, they just had two ports on their video card.
Oh, and they switched to DVI because no one else went with their standard, basically stranding those people with ADC monitors to get expensive adapters to convert from DVI to ADC.
Originally posted by TenoBell
Funny you say that as a party trick. I connect my Power Book through the mini stereo plug to an amplifier, and play music from iTunes through the large stereo speakers.
I also show off by connecting through the VGA port to S Video how my Power Book can be used as a DVD player.
Great, except its not Dolby Surround 5.1, which you can get from pretty much any PC, or even with a cheap-o add-on card (I know, now I'm not playing fair, since you can't add cards to 99% of all macs out there). Its just stereo. Wow, that's so 1970's.
And I plugged my iBook into my widescreen TV to watch a DVD as well. Didn't think the picture was that clear or great (blocky in several scenes, it seemed like). Maybe just not up to the iBooks capabilities.
Originally posted by TenoBell
I know, and there is so much overwhelming demand for PCI-Express cards. There may be a logic to why Apple does not have it yet. But I'm sure when they are ready Power Mac's will have PCI-Express.
Great, and Apple will offer them just as Wintel is going to PCI-Express2.