Yes, the iBook and Mac mini updates are underwhelming but they're still important and much needed updates. I don't see them as indicative of no new PBs in the fall. Even with the 7448 chip, an update would still be quite lame. Unless I'm mistaken, the 7448 only goes up to 1.7 GHz. The current top of the line PBs only go to 1.67 GHz. The reasons to use the 7448 are lower heat and better battery life.
So, if the next version of the PBs aren't going to be much faster than they are now, the new iBooks announced today make sense.
What sorts of new features would a new PB have? How about the next generation AirPort that goes to 108Mbps? Better AirPort range? Maybe faster graphics? Larger, faster HDs?
Any PB update between now and the time the Mactel PBs come out is bound to be minor so why wait until January? You won't get anything better in January than you can get in October.
My guess is this is the last G4 update for the iBooks and that the next one will be a Mactel somewhere around March. If the PBs are updated in October, the Mactel version could be out in April or May.
See, a January into of a PB G4 makes no sense because the dual core Yonah is going to be available for use by March so why wait to have new PBs using them in July?
Unless I'm mistaken, the 7448 only goes up to 1.7 GHz. The current top of the line PBs only go to 1.67 GHz. The reasons to use the 7448 are lower heat and better battery life.
Officially it is 1.7 Ghz. But traditionally, Apple had slightly higher clock speeds. With little luck it could be 1.8 GHz. Add to that not only low power consumption, but twice the L2 cache and a faster bus.
Quote:
So, if the next version of the PBs aren't going to be much faster than they are now, the new iBooks announced today make sense.
What we can all probably agree on is that Apple will be limping to the finish line with these PowerPC products.
Apple probably has a pretty good bead on what's going to start the new course with Intel technology, and I think it's plainly obvious that it's going to be the portables.
What we can all probably agree on is that Apple will be limping to the finish line with these PowerPC products.
Apple probably has a pretty good bead on what's going to start the new course with Intel technology, and I think it's plainly obvious that it's going to be the portables.
I think it has already been stated that Apple will start the Mactels off with the low end. That suggests Mac minis and iBooks. Maybe dual or single core Celeron? Maybe the speed won't be much higher than the stuff just announced yesterday and lower than what this fall's PBs might be.
There's room for one more PB upgrade before the Mactel version and it makes sense that it'd be this fall rather than January but I have no idea what might be announced in January.
I think it has already been stated that Apple will start the Mactels off with the low end.
...Yeah in a CNet article before the announcement from an unnamed source.
It is very important to note that Apple has not officially stated that what products will start using Intels or what tier of products will start using Intels. They have only given an approximate time frame of when the switch will begin.
I think it has already been stated that Apple will start the Mactels off with the low end. That suggests Mac minis and iBooks. Maybe dual or single core Celeron? Maybe the speed won't be much higher than the stuff just announced yesterday and lower than what this fall's PBs might be.
I think we can agree that apple hardly even knows what is going to happen in 12 months. They never have... so why would cnet know this? (this is the "statement" you are referring to right?) Personally I believe cnet's statement was an educated guess... why? because cnet is VERY PC oriented, and the only true competitor with pc marketshare is the mac mini... so they are hoping that will be the first to be announced. Its obvious apple is going to work on their g4 line before the g5 line with intel chips... so they had a guess of 1 to 4... mini, eMac, iBook, Powerbook. In my eyes (and many others) only one of those is DYING for a faster processor. The others are cheap consumer products... I have my money on the Powerbooks being the very first apple's with intel processors. This way developers will have pro type development machines to develop intel software without having to return a machine. If apple wants this transition to go smoothly, they need all the help from developers they can get. Having only mini's and iBooks available is not going to have developers jumping with joy to transition their software with. Unless apple has an ace up the sleeve with private development machines that don't have to be returned... expect the poewrbook to be with the first intel chip.
...Yeah in a CNet article before the announcement from an unnamed source.
It is very important to note that Apple has not officially stated that what products will start using Intels or what tier of products will start using Intels. They have only given an approximate time frame of when the switch will begin.
Oops, forgot to comment on that completely...
Rolo, have you seen any of these rumor sites comment on the mini or iBook being the first to get intel chips? Not that i've seen... I'll take these rumor sites word over a cnet word any day of the week. Cause we all know that cnet is owned by............................... none other than................................. M$
...Yeah in a CNet article before the announcement from an unnamed source.
It is very important to note that Apple has not officially stated that what products will start using Intels or what tier of products will start using Intels.
Rolo, have you seen any of these rumor sites comment on the mini or iBook being the first to get intel chips? Not that i've seen... I'll take these rumor sites word over a cnet word any day of the week. Cause we all know that cnet is owned by............................... none other than................................. M$
I was going by what I've been reading, what Jobs said at WWDC, and by what we've been seeing of Intel's processor roadmap. It seems like the first Mactel PB would use a dual core, 32-bit Yonah chip which should be at full production by the end of March. That's why I said it could be in a PB in April or May. Mactel versions of the iBook and Mac mini could precede the PB by a month but I'm only guessing based on chip availability. For all we know, the iBook and Mac mini could get a single core Yonah but I'm thinking more along the lines of a new version of the single core, 32-bit Celeron.
You can look at the various Intel chips coming out in 2006 and 2007 and draw your own conclusions. Mactel chip article It seems like Macs currently using G4s would be the first to get the Intel treatment but that includes the PBs. What goes first is debatable but the iBook, Mac mini and PB could be out before June and whichever is first will likely see the other in about a month or two.
It seems things are going to get mighty interesting next spring.
This is not a rumor. It has been discussed repeatedly on a S. Jobs statement basis.
when jobs said bottom-up he was referring to the types of processors, not the lineup. IE going from 7447 chips to the 970fx chips, or whatever else is available at the time. As in starting with the g4 and ending with the g5. When he made this statement the keynote background was a g4 chip then a ppc chip... which meant to mean a g4 then a g5 since IBM was erased from the notes.
when jobs said bottom-up he was referring to the types of processors, not the lineup. IE going from 7447 chips to the 970fx chips, or whatever else is available at the time. As in starting with the g4 and ending with the g5. When he made this statement the keynote background was a g4 chip then a ppc chip... which meant to mean a g4 then a g5 since IBM was erased from the notes.
And this changes things how? We know that the G4 lines (be it Powerbooks, iBooks, eMacs or Mac minis) suffer in performance and will get first the Intel processors. The G5 lines will follow in 2007. For example, no one expects the transition to start with the iMac. All bets are for the Powerbook, iBook and Mac mini.
This in my mind means exactly the opposite. It means that Apple will update the Powerbooks this autumn with the 7448 Freescale chips and since the update will be marginal clock-wise, they feel that they need to protect the Powerbook until then. The latest iBook update still leaves enough room for the Powerbook to breath.
It could be. I think it all depends on how quickly they can get Intels into the PowerBooks. If they can announce them at the January expo, to be shipped a month or so later, I seriously doubt they'll put another G4 in them between then and now, especially if they can't get the new Freescale chip in them until late fall or winter. It just doesn't make sense to put a new G4 in them, only to be upgraded again in two months.
On the other hand, if they can't get the Intels in the PowerBook until, say, May/June (WWDC 2006?), then I think there will be another G4 upgrade, because that would give the new G4 six months or so to settle in.
The reason I think this iBook update signals the former rather than the latter scenario is that, if the PowerBook was going to be upgraded soon, they would have put a faster G4 chips in the iBook, because then any encroachment by the iBook into the PowerBook's territory would have soon been reversed.
The reason I think this iBook update signals the former rather than the latter scenario is that, if the PowerBook was going to be upgraded soon, they would have put a faster G4 chips in the iBook, because then any encroachment by the iBook into the PowerBook's territory would have soon been reversed.
The "soon" here cannot be so... soon. The Powerbook cannot get the new 7448 from Freescale before this October, even if the announcement of the new models is for Apple Expo. Between now and then it is three months. Three months with the iBook cannibalizing the Powerbook (if the update was more aggressive) is not good.
It could be. I think it all depends on how quickly they can get Intels into the PowerBooks. If they can announce them at the January expo, to be shipped a month or so later, I seriously doubt they'll put another G4 in them between then and now...
Why do so many people around here seem to think that Apple's going to have Mactel's by January? It was very clearly laid out, barely a month ago, that Apple would begin delivering Intel-based Macs "by this time next year" (i.e. June 2006), and have the transition completed by the end of 2007.
To me, that means they'll have maybe one line available with Intel processors next summer. Whatever it is will probably be announced at WWDC--NOT Macworld--and ship sometime after that. I think it's very likely they'll have at least one PowerPC-based revision to the PowerBooks and Mac Minis before then.
On another topic, 13.3" widescreen notebooks was never a real rumor. I don't believe there has ever even been a reported source on that; the always-wrong DigiTimes reported on 12" and 14" widescreens. 13.3" was just somebody on this forum's wishful thinking.
Comments
So, if the next version of the PBs aren't going to be much faster than they are now, the new iBooks announced today make sense.
What sorts of new features would a new PB have? How about the next generation AirPort that goes to 108Mbps? Better AirPort range? Maybe faster graphics? Larger, faster HDs?
Any PB update between now and the time the Mactel PBs come out is bound to be minor so why wait until January? You won't get anything better in January than you can get in October.
My guess is this is the last G4 update for the iBooks and that the next one will be a Mactel somewhere around March. If the PBs are updated in October, the Mactel version could be out in April or May.
See, a January into of a PB G4 makes no sense because the dual core Yonah is going to be available for use by March so why wait to have new PBs using them in July?
Originally posted by Rolo
Unless I'm mistaken, the 7448 only goes up to 1.7 GHz. The current top of the line PBs only go to 1.67 GHz. The reasons to use the 7448 are lower heat and better battery life.
Officially it is 1.7 Ghz. But traditionally, Apple had slightly higher clock speeds. With little luck it could be 1.8 GHz. Add to that not only low power consumption, but twice the L2 cache and a faster bus.
So, if the next version of the PBs aren't going to be much faster than they are now, the new iBooks announced today make sense.
Exactly my thoughts.
What we can all probably agree on is that Apple will be limping to the finish line with these PowerPC products.
Apple probably has a pretty good bead on what's going to start the new course with Intel technology, and I think it's plainly obvious that it's going to be the portables.
Originally posted by DHagan4755
I disagree.
What we can all probably agree on is that Apple will be limping to the finish line with these PowerPC products.
Apple probably has a pretty good bead on what's going to start the new course with Intel technology, and I think it's plainly obvious that it's going to be the portables.
I think it has already been stated that Apple will start the Mactels off with the low end. That suggests Mac minis and iBooks. Maybe dual or single core Celeron? Maybe the speed won't be much higher than the stuff just announced yesterday and lower than what this fall's PBs might be.
There's room for one more PB upgrade before the Mactel version and it makes sense that it'd be this fall rather than January but I have no idea what might be announced in January.
Originally posted by 9secondko
No widescreen iBook is a dissapointment, but there is room for a third model to join the lineup.
Disappointment to those who read the tea leaves and predicted it?
Originally posted by g3pro
Disappointment to those who read the tea leaves and predicted it?
No.
A disappointment to those who wanted a super-affordable, widescreen notebook from Apple. Even Dell's lowest grade notebook is widescreen.
Originally posted by DHagan4755
I disagree.
No problem. I think we agree that we disagree
Originally posted by Rolo
I think it has already been stated that Apple will start the Mactels off with the low end.
...Yeah in a CNet article before the announcement from an unnamed source.
It is very important to note that Apple has not officially stated that what products will start using Intels or what tier of products will start using Intels. They have only given an approximate time frame of when the switch will begin.
Originally posted by Rolo
I think it has already been stated that Apple will start the Mactels off with the low end. That suggests Mac minis and iBooks. Maybe dual or single core Celeron? Maybe the speed won't be much higher than the stuff just announced yesterday and lower than what this fall's PBs might be.
I think we can agree that apple hardly even knows what is going to happen in 12 months. They never have... so why would cnet know this? (this is the "statement" you are referring to right?) Personally I believe cnet's statement was an educated guess... why? because cnet is VERY PC oriented, and the only true competitor with pc marketshare is the mac mini... so they are hoping that will be the first to be announced. Its obvious apple is going to work on their g4 line before the g5 line with intel chips... so they had a guess of 1 to 4... mini, eMac, iBook, Powerbook. In my eyes (and many others) only one of those is DYING for a faster processor. The others are cheap consumer products... I have my money on the Powerbooks being the very first apple's with intel processors. This way developers will have pro type development machines to develop intel software without having to return a machine. If apple wants this transition to go smoothly, they need all the help from developers they can get. Having only mini's and iBooks available is not going to have developers jumping with joy to transition their software with. Unless apple has an ace up the sleeve with private development machines that don't have to be returned... expect the poewrbook to be with the first intel chip.
Originally posted by DHagan4755
...Yeah in a CNet article before the announcement from an unnamed source.
It is very important to note that Apple has not officially stated that what products will start using Intels or what tier of products will start using Intels. They have only given an approximate time frame of when the switch will begin.
Oops, forgot to comment on that completely...
Rolo, have you seen any of these rumor sites comment on the mini or iBook being the first to get intel chips? Not that i've seen... I'll take these rumor sites word over a cnet word any day of the week. Cause we all know that cnet is owned by............................... none other than................................. M$
Originally posted by DHagan4755
...Yeah in a CNet article before the announcement from an unnamed source.
It is very important to note that Apple has not officially stated that what products will start using Intels or what tier of products will start using Intels.
Apple perhaps not, but Jobs yes:
A bottom-up transition
Steve Jobs' announcement that Apple would introduce Intel processors into its products at the laptop and low-end levels makes a ton of sense.
This is not a rumor. It has been discussed repeatedly on a S. Jobs statement basis.
Originally posted by emig647
Oops, forgot to comment on that completely...
Rolo, have you seen any of these rumor sites comment on the mini or iBook being the first to get intel chips? Not that i've seen... I'll take these rumor sites word over a cnet word any day of the week. Cause we all know that cnet is owned by............................... none other than................................. M$
I was going by what I've been reading, what Jobs said at WWDC, and by what we've been seeing of Intel's processor roadmap. It seems like the first Mactel PB would use a dual core, 32-bit Yonah chip which should be at full production by the end of March. That's why I said it could be in a PB in April or May. Mactel versions of the iBook and Mac mini could precede the PB by a month but I'm only guessing based on chip availability. For all we know, the iBook and Mac mini could get a single core Yonah but I'm thinking more along the lines of a new version of the single core, 32-bit Celeron.
You can look at the various Intel chips coming out in 2006 and 2007 and draw your own conclusions. Mactel chip article It seems like Macs currently using G4s would be the first to get the Intel treatment but that includes the PBs. What goes first is debatable but the iBook, Mac mini and PB could be out before June and whichever is first will likely see the other in about a month or two.
It seems things are going to get mighty interesting next spring.
Originally posted by PB
This is not a rumor. It has been discussed repeatedly on a S. Jobs statement basis.
when jobs said bottom-up he was referring to the types of processors, not the lineup. IE going from 7447 chips to the 970fx chips, or whatever else is available at the time. As in starting with the g4 and ending with the g5. When he made this statement the keynote background was a g4 chip then a ppc chip... which meant to mean a g4 then a g5 since IBM was erased from the notes.
Originally posted by PB
This is not a rumor. It has been discussed repeatedly on a S. Jobs statement basis.
Yeah, well the article is not official Apple comment, nor have I read or heard Steve say it. The article is not quoting him in that regard.
Further, the article pretty much speculates what I said with regard to the 1st Intel Mac would be a PowerBook.
Originally posted by PB
Apple perhaps not, but Jobs yes:
This is not a rumor. It has been discussed repeatedly on a S. Jobs statement basis.
Thanks, PB. That Ars article makes a lot of sense. Bring on the fall PBs!
Originally posted by emig647
when jobs said bottom-up he was referring to the types of processors, not the lineup. IE going from 7447 chips to the 970fx chips, or whatever else is available at the time. As in starting with the g4 and ending with the g5. When he made this statement the keynote background was a g4 chip then a ppc chip... which meant to mean a g4 then a g5 since IBM was erased from the notes.
And this changes things how? We know that the G4 lines (be it Powerbooks, iBooks, eMacs or Mac minis) suffer in performance and will get first the Intel processors. The G5 lines will follow in 2007. For example, no one expects the transition to start with the iMac. All bets are for the Powerbook, iBook and Mac mini.
Originally posted by PB
This in my mind means exactly the opposite. It means that Apple will update the Powerbooks this autumn with the 7448 Freescale chips and since the update will be marginal clock-wise, they feel that they need to protect the Powerbook until then. The latest iBook update still leaves enough room for the Powerbook to breath.
It could be. I think it all depends on how quickly they can get Intels into the PowerBooks. If they can announce them at the January expo, to be shipped a month or so later, I seriously doubt they'll put another G4 in them between then and now, especially if they can't get the new Freescale chip in them until late fall or winter. It just doesn't make sense to put a new G4 in them, only to be upgraded again in two months.
On the other hand, if they can't get the Intels in the PowerBook until, say, May/June (WWDC 2006?), then I think there will be another G4 upgrade, because that would give the new G4 six months or so to settle in.
The reason I think this iBook update signals the former rather than the latter scenario is that, if the PowerBook was going to be upgraded soon, they would have put a faster G4 chips in the iBook, because then any encroachment by the iBook into the PowerBook's territory would have soon been reversed.
Originally posted by BRussell
The reason I think this iBook update signals the former rather than the latter scenario is that, if the PowerBook was going to be upgraded soon, they would have put a faster G4 chips in the iBook, because then any encroachment by the iBook into the PowerBook's territory would have soon been reversed.
The "soon" here cannot be so... soon. The Powerbook cannot get the new 7448 from Freescale before this October, even if the announcement of the new models is for Apple Expo. Between now and then it is three months. Three months with the iBook cannibalizing the Powerbook (if the update was more aggressive) is not good.
Originally posted by BRussell
It could be. I think it all depends on how quickly they can get Intels into the PowerBooks. If they can announce them at the January expo, to be shipped a month or so later, I seriously doubt they'll put another G4 in them between then and now...
Why do so many people around here seem to think that Apple's going to have Mactel's by January? It was very clearly laid out, barely a month ago, that Apple would begin delivering Intel-based Macs "by this time next year" (i.e. June 2006), and have the transition completed by the end of 2007.
To me, that means they'll have maybe one line available with Intel processors next summer. Whatever it is will probably be announced at WWDC--NOT Macworld--and ship sometime after that. I think it's very likely they'll have at least one PowerPC-based revision to the PowerBooks and Mac Minis before then.
On another topic, 13.3" widescreen notebooks was never a real rumor. I don't believe there has ever even been a reported source on that; the always-wrong DigiTimes reported on 12" and 14" widescreens. 13.3" was just somebody on this forum's wishful thinking.