How punched in the face with what's actually gone down do you have to be before you stop acting as one of the countless enablers for this train wreck of an administration?
Do you actually think the American people would be better served by allowing the same FEMA that fucked this up beyond all knowing to control the message and focus on political results, than to let the press do its job so that we can see for ourselves that the job is getting done?
What if the press had been kept out from the beginning? How much you want to bet that you would be one of the ones discounting as "partisan" the wild stories the people that got out would be telling, about how they were left to die? That you would be backing up the Bush admin in its assertion that frenzied poor people say the craziest things?
FEMA has been assuring us all along that the stranded were being fed, or that they didn't exist, or that they had already been rescued. The only reason we know better is that reporters were standing right there saying "nope, that's not true, there is not food and water here, no one is being rescued".
But you think that same FEMA should now be left to its own devices.
Christ, is there no bottom to the willingness of Bush's hacks to bring the whole country down to his small minded level?
And just in case there is any doubt whatsoever what FEMA is actually tasked to do out of sight of those America hating reporters, think a moment about the recent job history of the top guys at that agency:
Quote:
Somewhere along the way FEMA became a dumping ground for the president's political cronies with little experience in disaster relief. The agency's first director was Joe Albaugh. He was president Bush's 2000 campaign chairman. Albaugh brought in the current failure Michael Brown. His previous work was with Arabian horses. The number two guy, Brown's top deputy at FEMA, is a fellow named Patrick Rhode. He worked for the 2000 election campaign. The number 3 guy at FEMA is Brooks Altshuler. He used to work in the White House. His job was planning presidential trips. FEMA's long term recovery director is a guy named Scott Morris. He produced television and radio commercials for the Bush campaign. The federal agency charged with handling national emergencies is staffed at the very top by a bunch of political hacks with virtually no experience that qualifies them to respond to something like Katrina. But I digress.
Political operatives to a man, with a collective resume that qualifies them for stage managing campaign events.
Can't see any reason why we'd want to keep an eye on them.
The only thing demonstratably false is your own sense of self-importance. Until you have attended activities actually covered by the media masses you will have no ideal of their size, scope and influence on efforts.
When I attended the 1996 Republican Convention in San Diego there were three media members for every actual delegate. Katrina coverage is much bigger than this obviously. Thousands of newsvans and hundreds of helicopters that do nothing but get in the way, take pictures of the dead and pray they get to take video of that resident who is being evacuated against their will is not what we need here. There is no shortage of news about Katrina and the aftermath. Having a thousand people repeat the same information will make us no more informed.
The only thing demonstratably false is your own sense of self-importance.
Look at that. Another unprovoked personal attack from trumptman.
Too bad your failed attempt to compare two completely incomparable situations does nothing to change the fact that it's demonstratably false both that FEMA's being hindered by journalists and that FEMA gave the order not to photograph bodies specifically because journalists are getting the in the way of rescue efforts. Hell, FEMA appears to be getting some of its most important information from journalists. What, are journalists now the reason that FEMA has yet to show up Biloxi?
And trumptman, in your inevitable rabid response, see if you can muster the restraint to do so without including a personal attack, something you've failed to do in every one of your posts in this thread.
Thousands of newsvans and hundreds of helicopters that do nothing but get in the way, take pictures of the dead and pray they get to take video of that resident who is being evacuated against their will is not what we need here. There is no shortage of news about Katrina and the aftermath. Having a thousand people repeat the same information will make us no more informed.
It appears that we all have differing OPINIONS on various matters related to the Hurricane and its aftermath. I will say nothing else in response to any of your statements because doing so would only fuel the fire of an argument I'm not interested in having.
Right now its 6-40pm Pacific Time. I am watching CNN, and on the bottom of the screen, the total "known" deaths from Hurricane Katrina are being displayed: Some 294 in total, comprising 194 in Mississippi, 83 in Louisiana and the remainder in Florida, Alabama and a few other states.
Now look at the LIST here on the wikipedia site. The deaths reported here are those apparently confirmed by local newsagencies. The figure is 735 as a direct consequence of the hurricane, or 1691+ deaths including those caused by indirect effects of the hurricane.
Question:
Who is reporting the most accurate figure here, and why the enormous discrepancy?
No matter what public officials blame gets cast upon, something also must be said about the negligence of people to protect themselves and prepare in case of an emergency.
Since 9/11 the Dept. of Homeland Security has had NUMEROUS resources available for people to prepare emergency kits, learn how to shelter in place, and lots of other important information. Among the recommendations are to have non-perishable food and water to last everyone at least 3 days.
Being "Ready" has been well promoted in this country. Sure, it's not been at the forefront for a while, but if we're going to cast blame, let's not forget those who did not make an attempt to protect themselves with portable ready kits and water/food.
Let's also hope that the rest of Americans will learn another sobering lesson from this and become ready themselves.
Look at that. Another unprovoked personal attack from trumptman.
Pointing out the fact that you continually dismiss the opinion of one person with nothing more than your own opinion is not attacking you. It is simply stating what you are doing and why you feel you can do it.
Let me help you understand this a little better.
Quote:
self-im·por·tance (slfm-pôrtns)
n.
Excessively high regard for one's own importance or station; conceit.
Why do you believe you can dismiss and call false the opinion of another person with nothing more than your own opinion? It is because you have an excessively high regard for yourself.
Quote:
Too bad your failed attempt to compare two completely incomparable situations does nothing to change the fact that it's demonstratably false both that FEMA's being hindered by journalists and that FEMA gave the order not to photograph bodies specifically because journalists are getting the in the way of rescue efforts. Hell, FEMA appears to be getting some of its most important information from journalists. What, are journalists now the reason that FEMA has yet to show up Biloxi?
Yes we should dismiss the source (FEMA) and believe some guy posting on a Mac internet forums because, well because he says so. What you have failed to do is show in any fashion how information about Katrina and NO is somehow not getting out. Like I mentioned earlier you don't need a photograph of a floating corpse to find out how many have died. There is no lack of information about this matter. The agencies are attempting to get their work done and if that means they deal with press releases or news briefs for a while then so be it. You claim that the journalists are going to places and reporting information that the government then moves and acts on. How is that in any fashion limiting the journalists? Yet when they have the now has the information, the journalists need to get and stay out of the way.
Quote:
And trumptman, in your inevitable rabid response, see if you can muster the restraint to do so without including a personal attack, something you've failed to do in every one of your posts in this thread.
Criticism means you are helping the terrorists....
That isn't true and guess what, criticism of the methods both you and Shawn use to dismiss people posting on here isn't a personal attack either. Shawn didn't address the posted information. He addressed the "motives" of the person giving that information. You as well as I know that is a logical fallacy called killing the messenger or sometimes poisoning the well.
You on the otherhand tend to mix appeals to authority while having none along with a bit of ridicule and mockery based off your perceived authority.
But on topic, how does someone reporting on a dead body, or taking a photograph of a dead body help that body get found or help the family of the person that perished? You can claim all day that unlimited or some magical number of media should be allowed, but you've not shown in any fashion how this will help or how information is being limited. Having more people reporting the exact same information does not help us.
Let me suggest that sometime in the future you simply go to any place where a major news story is being covered and what I am talking about will be entirely self-evident to you.
Warning : any form of personal attack (read a judgement about others members) is forbidden.
I won't tolerate a single more post like this. People are entitled of their opinions, wheter they please you or not, you have to respect them, at least here at AI.
Right now its 6-40pm Pacific Time. I am watching CNN, and on the bottom of the screen, the total "known" deaths from Hurricane Katrina are being displayed: Some 294 in total, comprising 194 in Mississippi, 83 in Louisiana and the remainder in Florida, Alabama and a few other states.
Now look at the LIST here on the wikipedia site. The deaths reported here are those apparently confirmed by local newsagencies. The figure is 735 as a direct consequence of the hurricane, or 1691+ deaths including those caused by indirect effects of the hurricane.
Question:
Who is reporting the most accurate figure here, and why the enormous discrepancy?
oh lord. here we go with conspiracy theories
keyword for CNN: OFFICIAL.
wikipedia is not an official number. The official number last night barely included any NO deaths. Officials are not releasing those numbers till they have a better idea of the total number. Right now they are retrieving and tagging so many bodies that to release any number would be inaccurate and at this point is not important.
The fact that they ordered 25,000 body bags should give you an idea.
The number will come and the number will be devastating.
Let's remember that NY officials ordered FAR more body bags than were actually used. To me, that's a glimmer of hope that it won't be nearly 25,000. Let's hope.
Oh GROW UP already! Sheesh, whats with the knee jerking every time a point is raised? Why is there always some idiot who starts bleating about conspiracy theories. Jeesus H Christ! I thought people from the Bronx were supposed to be pragmatists. Obviously I must be mistaken.
Quote:
keyword for CNN: OFFICIAL.
wikipedia is not an official number. The official number last night barely included any NO deaths. Officials are not releasing those numbers till they have a better idea of the total number. Right now they are retrieving and tagging so many bodies that to release any number would be inaccurate and at this point is not important.
The fact that they ordered 25,000 body bags should give you an idea.
The number will come and the number will be devastating.
OK...Back on topic: When I said "CNN", I could have said ABC, CBS, MSNBC and/or all the others. Official or otherwise, the list in wiki comprises the total known so far from adding up reports from local news agencies. Is this a correct total or not? If there is a 575% discrepancy between that figure and the national media figures, then how come? It's a perfectly legitimate question. And that 25,000 figure ... that has to be vastly inflated.
Anyway who is going to be counting the deaths here? I just hope its not Diebold.
Warning : any form of personal attack (read a judgement about others members) is forbidden.
I won't tolerate a single more post like this. People are entitled of their opinions, wheter they please you or not, you have to respect them, at least here at AI.
how about you put some action behind your words......
Quote:
Oh GROW UP already! Sheesh, whats with the knee jerking every time a point is raised? Why is there always some idiot who starts bleating about conspiracy theories. Jeesus H Christ! I thought people from the Bronx were supposed to be pragmatists. Obviously I must be mistaken.
Oh GROW UP already! Sheesh, whats with the knee jerking every time a point is raised? Why is there always some idiot who starts bleating about conspiracy theories. Jeesus H Christ! I thought people from the Bronx were supposed to be pragmatists. Obviously I must be mistaken.
Because you always jump at the chance to be that idiot
Comments
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Well actually, yeah.
How punched in the face with what's actually gone down do you have to be before you stop acting as one of the countless enablers for this train wreck of an administration?
Do you actually think the American people would be better served by allowing the same FEMA that fucked this up beyond all knowing to control the message and focus on political results, than to let the press do its job so that we can see for ourselves that the job is getting done?
What if the press had been kept out from the beginning? How much you want to bet that you would be one of the ones discounting as "partisan" the wild stories the people that got out would be telling, about how they were left to die? That you would be backing up the Bush admin in its assertion that frenzied poor people say the craziest things?
FEMA has been assuring us all along that the stranded were being fed, or that they didn't exist, or that they had already been rescued. The only reason we know better is that reporters were standing right there saying "nope, that's not true, there is not food and water here, no one is being rescued".
But you think that same FEMA should now be left to its own devices.
Christ, is there no bottom to the willingness of Bush's hacks to bring the whole country down to his small minded level?
Somewhere along the way FEMA became a dumping ground for the president's political cronies with little experience in disaster relief. The agency's first director was Joe Albaugh. He was president Bush's 2000 campaign chairman. Albaugh brought in the current failure Michael Brown. His previous work was with Arabian horses. The number two guy, Brown's top deputy at FEMA, is a fellow named Patrick Rhode. He worked for the 2000 election campaign. The number 3 guy at FEMA is Brooks Altshuler. He used to work in the White House. His job was planning presidential trips. FEMA's long term recovery director is a guy named Scott Morris. He produced television and radio commercials for the Bush campaign. The federal agency charged with handling national emergencies is staffed at the very top by a bunch of political hacks with virtually no experience that qualifies them to respond to something like Katrina. But I digress.
Political operatives to a man, with a collective resume that qualifies them for stage managing campaign events.
Can't see any reason why we'd want to keep an eye on them.
Originally posted by giant
That's demonstratably false in this case.
The only thing demonstratably false is your own sense of self-importance. Until you have attended activities actually covered by the media masses you will have no ideal of their size, scope and influence on efforts.
When I attended the 1996 Republican Convention in San Diego there were three media members for every actual delegate. Katrina coverage is much bigger than this obviously. Thousands of newsvans and hundreds of helicopters that do nothing but get in the way, take pictures of the dead and pray they get to take video of that resident who is being evacuated against their will is not what we need here. There is no shortage of news about Katrina and the aftermath. Having a thousand people repeat the same information will make us no more informed.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
The only thing demonstratably false is your own sense of self-importance.
Look at that. Another unprovoked personal attack from trumptman.
Too bad your failed attempt to compare two completely incomparable situations does nothing to change the fact that it's demonstratably false both that FEMA's being hindered by journalists and that FEMA gave the order not to photograph bodies specifically because journalists are getting the in the way of rescue efforts. Hell, FEMA appears to be getting some of its most important information from journalists. What, are journalists now the reason that FEMA has yet to show up Biloxi?
And trumptman, in your inevitable rabid response, see if you can muster the restraint to do so without including a personal attack, something you've failed to do in every one of your posts in this thread.
Originally posted by trumptman
Thousands of newsvans and hundreds of helicopters that do nothing but get in the way, take pictures of the dead and pray they get to take video of that resident who is being evacuated against their will is not what we need here. There is no shortage of news about Katrina and the aftermath. Having a thousand people repeat the same information will make us no more informed.
Nick
Honestly, what are you talking about?
And this is where you say...
Now look at the LIST here on the wikipedia site. The deaths reported here are those apparently confirmed by local newsagencies. The figure is 735 as a direct consequence of the hurricane, or 1691+ deaths including those caused by indirect effects of the hurricane.
Question:
Who is reporting the most accurate figure here, and why the enormous discrepancy?
Since 9/11 the Dept. of Homeland Security has had NUMEROUS resources available for people to prepare emergency kits, learn how to shelter in place, and lots of other important information. Among the recommendations are to have non-perishable food and water to last everyone at least 3 days.
Being "Ready" has been well promoted in this country. Sure, it's not been at the forefront for a while, but if we're going to cast blame, let's not forget those who did not make an attempt to protect themselves with portable ready kits and water/food.
Let's also hope that the rest of Americans will learn another sobering lesson from this and become ready themselves.
Originally posted by giant
Look at that. Another unprovoked personal attack from trumptman.
Pointing out the fact that you continually dismiss the opinion of one person with nothing more than your own opinion is not attacking you. It is simply stating what you are doing and why you feel you can do it.
Let me help you understand this a little better.
self-im·por·tance (slfm-pôrtns)
n.
Excessively high regard for one's own importance or station; conceit.
Why do you believe you can dismiss and call false the opinion of another person with nothing more than your own opinion? It is because you have an excessively high regard for yourself.
Too bad your failed attempt to compare two completely incomparable situations does nothing to change the fact that it's demonstratably false both that FEMA's being hindered by journalists and that FEMA gave the order not to photograph bodies specifically because journalists are getting the in the way of rescue efforts. Hell, FEMA appears to be getting some of its most important information from journalists. What, are journalists now the reason that FEMA has yet to show up Biloxi?
Yes we should dismiss the source (FEMA) and believe some guy posting on a Mac internet forums because, well because he says so. What you have failed to do is show in any fashion how information about Katrina and NO is somehow not getting out. Like I mentioned earlier you don't need a photograph of a floating corpse to find out how many have died. There is no lack of information about this matter. The agencies are attempting to get their work done and if that means they deal with press releases or news briefs for a while then so be it. You claim that the journalists are going to places and reporting information that the government then moves and acts on. How is that in any fashion limiting the journalists? Yet when they have the now has the information, the journalists need to get and stay out of the way.
And trumptman, in your inevitable rabid response, see if you can muster the restraint to do so without including a personal attack, something you've failed to do in every one of your posts in this thread.
Criticism means you are helping the terrorists....
That isn't true and guess what, criticism of the methods both you and Shawn use to dismiss people posting on here isn't a personal attack either. Shawn didn't address the posted information. He addressed the "motives" of the person giving that information. You as well as I know that is a logical fallacy called killing the messenger or sometimes poisoning the well.
You on the otherhand tend to mix appeals to authority while having none along with a bit of ridicule and mockery based off your perceived authority.
But on topic, how does someone reporting on a dead body, or taking a photograph of a dead body help that body get found or help the family of the person that perished? You can claim all day that unlimited or some magical number of media should be allowed, but you've not shown in any fashion how this will help or how information is being limited. Having more people reporting the exact same information does not help us.
Nick
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Honestly, what are you talking about?
Let me suggest that sometime in the future you simply go to any place where a major news story is being covered and what I am talking about will be entirely self-evident to you.
Nick
I won't tolerate a single more post like this. People are entitled of their opinions, wheter they please you or not, you have to respect them, at least here at AI.
Originally posted by sammi jo
Right now its 6-40pm Pacific Time. I am watching CNN, and on the bottom of the screen, the total "known" deaths from Hurricane Katrina are being displayed: Some 294 in total, comprising 194 in Mississippi, 83 in Louisiana and the remainder in Florida, Alabama and a few other states.
Now look at the LIST here on the wikipedia site. The deaths reported here are those apparently confirmed by local newsagencies. The figure is 735 as a direct consequence of the hurricane, or 1691+ deaths including those caused by indirect effects of the hurricane.
Question:
Who is reporting the most accurate figure here, and why the enormous discrepancy?
oh lord. here we go with conspiracy theories
keyword for CNN: OFFICIAL.
wikipedia is not an official number. The official number last night barely included any NO deaths. Officials are not releasing those numbers till they have a better idea of the total number. Right now they are retrieving and tagging so many bodies that to release any number would be inaccurate and at this point is not important.
The fact that they ordered 25,000 body bags should give you an idea.
The number will come and the number will be devastating.
Originally posted by Bronxite
[B]oh lord. here we go with conspiracy theories
Oh GROW UP already! Sheesh, whats with the knee jerking every time a point is raised? Why is there always some idiot who starts bleating about conspiracy theories. Jeesus H Christ! I thought people from the Bronx were supposed to be pragmatists. Obviously I must be mistaken.
keyword for CNN: OFFICIAL.
wikipedia is not an official number. The official number last night barely included any NO deaths. Officials are not releasing those numbers till they have a better idea of the total number. Right now they are retrieving and tagging so many bodies that to release any number would be inaccurate and at this point is not important.
The fact that they ordered 25,000 body bags should give you an idea.
The number will come and the number will be devastating.
OK...Back on topic: When I said "CNN", I could have said ABC, CBS, MSNBC and/or all the others. Official or otherwise, the list in wiki comprises the total known so far from adding up reports from local news agencies. Is this a correct total or not? If there is a 575% discrepancy between that figure and the national media figures, then how come? It's a perfectly legitimate question. And that 25,000 figure ... that has to be vastly inflated.
Anyway who is going to be counting the deaths here? I just hope its not Diebold.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Warning : any form of personal attack (read a judgement about others members) is forbidden.
I won't tolerate a single more post like this. People are entitled of their opinions, wheter they please you or not, you have to respect them, at least here at AI.
how about you put some action behind your words......
Oh GROW UP already! Sheesh, whats with the knee jerking every time a point is raised? Why is there always some idiot who starts bleating about conspiracy theories. Jeesus H Christ! I thought people from the Bronx were supposed to be pragmatists. Obviously I must be mistaken.
I expect sammi jo to be banned
Originally posted by sammi jo
Oh GROW UP already! Sheesh, whats with the knee jerking every time a point is raised? Why is there always some idiot who starts bleating about conspiracy theories. Jeesus H Christ! I thought people from the Bronx were supposed to be pragmatists. Obviously I must be mistaken.
Because you always jump at the chance to be that idiot