It seems to me that SJ is steering the great technology boat here. Apple CREATES a market for products, 'kay? There was no real market for digital music before iPod. Period. The reason there's no market for a video iPod (which I agree with) is because Apple chooses for there not to be.
Remarkable viewpoint, and I believe it. Truly an inspiring company.
While Intel deeply segmented its processors into server, desktop, and lap top.
Actually, it is a bit more segmented than that, just in the x86 lines. They have high end server (Xeon MP), low end server & workstation (Xeon DP), midrange desktop (P4) and laptop (Centrino / Pentium M), low end desktop (Celeron), low end laptop (Celeron M).
Quote:
In the same period Jobs did not segment Power PC into a different class of chips. Accross the G3 and G4 line the chips running in the desk tops and lap tops were basically the same chip. The desktop chip went into the lap top once its power consumption was low enough. The G5 was running the same pattern.
I think you are basically denying and saying it's not necessarily the same chip in the desktops as it is in the laptops. Laptop chips very often use different fab processes, lowering power consumption is not just a die shrink. Apple doesn't make a marketing distinction between desktop and laptop chips though, but there are distinct model differences on the actual chips.
Apple doesn't want to grow out of its teenager market for the iPod. That's why Apple would never consider adding standard AM-FM radio features to the iPod so as to expand its market into the 25-60 year old demographics. God forbid that Apple gave its customers what they want or what they need for it might increase Apple's market share beyond the 3%.
Microsoft has another 20 years to lead the market in giving customers what they want.
Uh, wow, as in wow. You are confusing the iPod and Macintosh lines, in particular, using a Mac statistic to falsely "back up" a claim about the iPod line. The 3% is the stated worldwide market share for Macintosh. Apple's worldwide mp3 player market share is about 30%, and in the G8 nations, I think the average is about 80%.
I'm not sure why some people want AM/FM on an mp3 player. IMO, those bands are generally infested with crap broadcasters.
Uh, wow, as in wow. You are confusing the iPod and Macintosh lines. The 3% is the stated worldwide market share for Macintosh. Apple's worldwide mp3 player market share is about 30%, and in the G8 nations, I think the average is about 80%.
I'm not sure why people want AM/FM on an mp3 player. Those bands are infested with crap broadcasters.
And as far as hard-drive based players go, they have some ridiculous amount, like 90% or perhaps even over that.
I think you are basically denying and saying it's not necessarily the same chip in the desktops as it is in the laptops.
No I'm saying it is the same chip.
The end of 2003 was when Apple finished its transition of the full Macintosh line from the G3 to the G4 and before Apple began its transition to the G5.
eMac (800 Mhz)
iBook (800/933/1000 Mhz)
iMac (1/1.25 Ghz)
PowerBook (667,800,867,1000 Mhz)
PowerMac (1/1.25/1.42 Ghz)
Xserve (1/1.33 Ghz)
In 2003 all of these computers used the exact same chip
I'm not sure why some people want AM/FM on an mp3 player. IMO, those bands are generally infested with crap broadcasters.
Yeah, like NPR, talk radio, emergency broadcasts, news, weather and those stupid live sports events! We can always listen to podcasts of last weeks baseball games, that would be fun.
I like radio. I listen to more than just music and as much as I really love podcasts, I often want to listen to things live, as they happen.
I would like to see an iPod Max with radio, integrated mic and a 20 hour battery....and I don't care if you don't want one.
I would like to see an iPod Max with radio, integrated mic and a 20 hour battery....and I don't care if you don't want one.
There is a radio add-on for the iPod. Also, you mentioned NPR, they have numerous podcasts, they claim about 150 of them, about 20 of them are in the iTunes podcast directory, currently featured on the front page.
I think that the 'Burn in Hell" remark is so outlandish that it itself is a marketing ploy. In one sitting Steve pounces on the greedy record labels -- I've worked with them and they are greedy! -- to defend our 99 cents per tune price and at the same time can rally support for OS X.
I don't know if the quote made the papers, but I'm curious to see when I ride BART today.
I call bulls*it on the "not enough demand" comments.
Firstly, you don't wait for demand, you create it. I don't know of anyone who wouldn't want the feature integrated. You can't judge demand by sales of tacky add-ons. Integrate, people will buy it. DAB and FM, thanks.
Secondly, there is a consistent demand out there for radio and/or recording (live pause/play features) as well as voice. I still see meet so many people using a mic with a Minidisc or a dedicated digital IC recorder. The nano is an ideal package for this type of use. I'll even take a mic attachment, if that's all we can get. It'd still be small enough, but please, a decent bit rate/fidelity...
On the plus side, the nano is so small that you could team it with an accessory of the sam size and still not suffer any real burden...
I call bulls*it on the "not enough demand" comments.
Firstly, you don't wait for demand, you create it. I don't know of anyone who wouldn't want the feature integrated. You can't judge demand by sales of tacky add-ons. Integrate, people will buy it. DAB and FM, thanks.
Secondly, there is a consistent demand out there for radio and/or recording (live pause/play features) as well as voice. I still see meet so many people using a mic with a Minidisc or a dedicated digital IC recorder. The nano is an ideal package for this type of use. I'll even take a mic attachment, if that's all we can get. It'd still be small enough, but please, a decent bit rate/fidelity...
On the plus side, the nano is so small that you could team it with an accessory of the sam size and still not suffer any real burden...
If the demand was really that great then the players out there that offer the feature would be eating more of Apple's lunch.
It would probably cost very little to add but it would still mean extra cost and how many more iPods would really sell as a result? If you want a portable radio they make some super tiny ones that you don't even have to plug into the iPod.
Steve just hit the nail on the head, and landed a glancing blow to another. The only thing that makes a Mac worthwhile is the operating system. Period. Awww, it's pretty. NO, IT'S SLOW AND OVERPRICED. SORRY. But the operating system is absolutely perfect and far exceeds any other. I find that I can be at least twice as productive simply from a time point of view on Mac OS X.
The other nail is making Apple into a software company. Or at least partly into a software country. You can see, by one quote, that Steve sees how great it would be for anyone to be able to install Mac OS X on their beige boxes. He's just hesitant, I believe, because that would mean giving the whole pretty hardware business away. I personally think that they can coexist; people will buy a Mac just as they'd buy any other boutique computer, and the build-it-yourself crows will be ecstasic. It looks like a win-win.
The other nail is making Apple into a software company. Or at least partly into a software country. You can see, by one quote, that Steve sees how great it would be for anyone to be able to install Mac OS X on their beige boxes. He's just hesitant, I believe, because that would mean giving the whole pretty hardware business away. I personally think that they can coexist; people will buy a Mac just as they'd buy any other boutique computer, and the build-it-yourself crows will be ecstasic. It looks like a win-win.
I gotta say I don't agree.
Apple makes the hardware and software because that's what they've always done, and they know it works.
Microsoft's big mistake was letting any computer anywhere run Windows. Know why? Because MS can't possibly make secure and non-buggy versions of Windows for every single configuration out there, it's just not possible.
Apple has really tight integration between it's hardware & software, and it's because of this that the quality of the products is so high.
Seriously, Apple products still have a few bugs every now and then, and Apple knows exactly how to fix them because they make everything themselves so they are familiar with all the components.
I think Apple's biggest mistake would be to let any 'beige box' run Mac OS X.
It would nearly nullify Mac hardware sales, which aren't great at the moment, and Apple would become another stuggling software company.
Apple makes the hardware and software because that's what they've always done, and they know it works.
Microsoft's big mistake was letting any computer anywhere run Windows. Know why? Because MS can't possibly make secure and non-buggy versions of Windows for every single configuration out there, it's just not possible.
Apple has really tight integration between it's hardware & software, and it's because of this that the quality of the products is so high.
Seriously, Apple products still have a few bugs every now and then, and Apple knows exactly how to fix them because they make everything themselves so they are familiar with all the components.
I think Apple's biggest mistake would be to let any 'beige box' run Mac OS X.
It would nearly nullify Mac hardware sales, which aren't great at the moment, and Apple would become another stuggling software company.
Jimzip
A struggling software company with iPods...at least until that fad fades.
A struggling software company with iPods...at least until that fad fades.
Yeah. Hahah. I was going to mention iPods, and how even though they may support the company for years yet, it would be sad to see all of the computers stop being made.. But I think I'll let it sit .
Asking: ?Why have we been able to maintain our position??, Jobs pointed to Apple?s secret success sauce.
?The iPod looks like a piece of hardware, but it?s not. It?s software. And iTunes is the best jukebox and iTunes Music Store is the best digital music distribution service?.
Apple?s competitors need to overcome a foe that boasts: ?World class hardware, applications and services,? he said.
These constituents, ?work together seamlessly?, Jobs added.
And this is the secret, he stressed. Apple?s ?whole widget? approach to music is its strength. It produces the software, the devices and the store.
?No other company does it all,? he said, ?The PC ecosystem where one company makes the hardware another makes the software doesnt work, we do all of them?, he added.
I don't think Apple'll be leaving the hardware market anytime soon...
I call bulls*it on the "not enough demand" comments.
I'd be surprised if they weren't true. Is there enough people wanting to pay the extra money for an fm receiver to warrant the price hike for everyone (go out and look at the comparative prices once one is integrated), I'd say no. Apple has a modular design where if you want an accessory to do it you can add it at your own expense and their sales say they have the right design and function going right now. I'm sure if they feel later they can use it to add value they might but radio obviously isn't that big a seller or the iPod wouldn't be as successful as it is so just because you want something don't think you're the norm because clearly you aren't.
Digital is where it is all going but until there is more convergence there there is no need. If you want a radio buy a radio, why buy a radio/iPod for £139/£200 when you can pick up a tiny portable one for £20 - if not less.
Mobile phone come with radios if you're such a gadget freak.. get one of those.
I doubt very much that Mr Jobs wants to get into producing radios. What's next? Televsion? Microwaves? Freezers? Fax Machines?
Get a life.
As far as Jobs being a buddhist: I doubt it.
He may like some of their ideas but a buddhist wouldn't have any interest in Apple. they're not big in individuality, proabaly more keen on M$.
Nuff said. Probably pi@@ed a lot of people off with my first post.
There's no reason for an iPod not to have a radio. Eh, I guess there is. I think they should sell an iPod, and then a Photo Viewer, and then an address book viewer and clock and three seperate devices. That would be a lot better.
Yes, he is a buddhist. Maybe he has an interest in Apple because he started it and everything?
What kind of radio do you want? AM or FM or digital? and attached to an iPod? Have you noticed the size of these things?
Maybe a few years down the line when everything has switched to digital radio perhaps it could be produced as an attachement (Belkin or Griffin).
An iPod needs a radio like chocolate cake needs mustard.
Again, if you need radio so desparately get a mobile phone with a radio.
Squeezing functionality into things is Microsoft's game... Apple is about form and function. Microsoft is about shoving things into packages... take MS Office for example - the most bloated package ever invented.
You're not the customer Apple wants.
You're the Palm customer: calendar, contacts, Excel, Word, Camera, voice recorder, stylus, phone, minesweeper, MP3, etc
Comments
Originally posted by CosmoNut
It seems to me that SJ is steering the great technology boat here. Apple CREATES a market for products, 'kay? There was no real market for digital music before iPod. Period. The reason there's no market for a video iPod (which I agree with) is because Apple chooses for there not to be.
Remarkable viewpoint, and I believe it. Truly an inspiring company.
Originally posted by AppleInsider
?You don?t want to burn in Hell. ..."
Wow -- I am a Hell bound heart !!
This is serious! I thought I was only a renegade, or at worst a criminal
Apperantly, Hell hath no fury like Steve Jobs!
(I really wanted to use Highway to Hell, but the AC/DC version isnt on ITMS)
Originally posted by TenoBell
While Intel deeply segmented its processors into server, desktop, and lap top.
Actually, it is a bit more segmented than that, just in the x86 lines. They have high end server (Xeon MP), low end server & workstation (Xeon DP), midrange desktop (P4) and laptop (Centrino / Pentium M), low end desktop (Celeron), low end laptop (Celeron M).
In the same period Jobs did not segment Power PC into a different class of chips. Accross the G3 and G4 line the chips running in the desk tops and lap tops were basically the same chip. The desktop chip went into the lap top once its power consumption was low enough. The G5 was running the same pattern.
I think you are basically denying and saying it's not necessarily the same chip in the desktops as it is in the laptops. Laptop chips very often use different fab processes, lowering power consumption is not just a die shrink. Apple doesn't make a marketing distinction between desktop and laptop chips though, but there are distinct model differences on the actual chips.
Originally posted by ouragan
Apple doesn't want to grow out of its teenager market for the iPod. That's why Apple would never consider adding standard AM-FM radio features to the iPod so as to expand its market into the 25-60 year old demographics. God forbid that Apple gave its customers what they want or what they need for it might increase Apple's market share beyond the 3%.
Microsoft has another 20 years to lead the market in giving customers what they want.
Uh, wow, as in wow. You are confusing the iPod and Macintosh lines, in particular, using a Mac statistic to falsely "back up" a claim about the iPod line. The 3% is the stated worldwide market share for Macintosh. Apple's worldwide mp3 player market share is about 30%, and in the G8 nations, I think the average is about 80%.
I'm not sure why some people want AM/FM on an mp3 player. IMO, those bands are generally infested with crap broadcasters.
Originally posted by JeffDM
Uh, wow, as in wow. You are confusing the iPod and Macintosh lines. The 3% is the stated worldwide market share for Macintosh. Apple's worldwide mp3 player market share is about 30%, and in the G8 nations, I think the average is about 80%.
I'm not sure why people want AM/FM on an mp3 player. Those bands are infested with crap broadcasters.
And as far as hard-drive based players go, they have some ridiculous amount, like 90% or perhaps even over that.
I think you are basically denying and saying it's not necessarily the same chip in the desktops as it is in the laptops.
No I'm saying it is the same chip.
The end of 2003 was when Apple finished its transition of the full Macintosh line from the G3 to the G4 and before Apple began its transition to the G5.
eMac (800 Mhz)
iBook (800/933/1000 Mhz)
iMac (1/1.25 Ghz)
PowerBook (667,800,867,1000 Mhz)
PowerMac (1/1.25/1.42 Ghz)
Xserve (1/1.33 Ghz)
In 2003 all of these computers used the exact same chip
the Power PC 7455 G4.
Originally posted by JeffDM
I'm not sure why some people want AM/FM on an mp3 player. IMO, those bands are generally infested with crap broadcasters.
Yeah, like NPR, talk radio, emergency broadcasts, news, weather and those stupid live sports events! We can always listen to podcasts of last weeks baseball games, that would be fun.
I like radio. I listen to more than just music and as much as I really love podcasts, I often want to listen to things live, as they happen.
I would like to see an iPod Max with radio, integrated mic and a 20 hour battery....and I don't care if you don't want one.
Originally posted by MacGregor
I would like to see an iPod Max with radio, integrated mic and a 20 hour battery....and I don't care if you don't want one.
There is a radio add-on for the iPod. Also, you mentioned NPR, they have numerous podcasts, they claim about 150 of them, about 20 of them are in the iTunes podcast directory, currently featured on the front page.
I don't know if the quote made the papers, but I'm curious to see when I ride BART today.
Firstly, you don't wait for demand, you create it. I don't know of anyone who wouldn't want the feature integrated. You can't judge demand by sales of tacky add-ons. Integrate, people will buy it. DAB and FM, thanks.
Secondly, there is a consistent demand out there for radio and/or recording (live pause/play features) as well as voice. I still see meet so many people using a mic with a Minidisc or a dedicated digital IC recorder. The nano is an ideal package for this type of use. I'll even take a mic attachment, if that's all we can get. It'd still be small enough, but please, a decent bit rate/fidelity...
On the plus side, the nano is so small that you could team it with an accessory of the sam size and still not suffer any real burden...
Originally posted by Matsu
I call bulls*it on the "not enough demand" comments.
Firstly, you don't wait for demand, you create it. I don't know of anyone who wouldn't want the feature integrated. You can't judge demand by sales of tacky add-ons. Integrate, people will buy it. DAB and FM, thanks.
Secondly, there is a consistent demand out there for radio and/or recording (live pause/play features) as well as voice. I still see meet so many people using a mic with a Minidisc or a dedicated digital IC recorder. The nano is an ideal package for this type of use. I'll even take a mic attachment, if that's all we can get. It'd still be small enough, but please, a decent bit rate/fidelity...
On the plus side, the nano is so small that you could team it with an accessory of the sam size and still not suffer any real burden...
If the demand was really that great then the players out there that offer the feature would be eating more of Apple's lunch.
It would probably cost very little to add but it would still mean extra cost and how many more iPods would really sell as a result? If you want a portable radio they make some super tiny ones that you don't even have to plug into the iPod.
The other nail is making Apple into a software company. Or at least partly into a software country. You can see, by one quote, that Steve sees how great it would be for anyone to be able to install Mac OS X on their beige boxes. He's just hesitant, I believe, because that would mean giving the whole pretty hardware business away. I personally think that they can coexist; people will buy a Mac just as they'd buy any other boutique computer, and the build-it-yourself crows will be ecstasic. It looks like a win-win.
Originally posted by Placebo
The other nail is making Apple into a software company. Or at least partly into a software country. You can see, by one quote, that Steve sees how great it would be for anyone to be able to install Mac OS X on their beige boxes. He's just hesitant, I believe, because that would mean giving the whole pretty hardware business away. I personally think that they can coexist; people will buy a Mac just as they'd buy any other boutique computer, and the build-it-yourself crows will be ecstasic. It looks like a win-win.
I gotta say I don't agree.
Apple makes the hardware and software because that's what they've always done, and they know it works.
Microsoft's big mistake was letting any computer anywhere run Windows. Know why? Because MS can't possibly make secure and non-buggy versions of Windows for every single configuration out there, it's just not possible.
Apple has really tight integration between it's hardware & software, and it's because of this that the quality of the products is so high.
Seriously, Apple products still have a few bugs every now and then, and Apple knows exactly how to fix them because they make everything themselves so they are familiar with all the components.
I think Apple's biggest mistake would be to let any 'beige box' run Mac OS X.
It would nearly nullify Mac hardware sales, which aren't great at the moment, and Apple would become another stuggling software company.
Jimzip
Originally posted by Jimzip
I gotta say I don't agree.
Apple makes the hardware and software because that's what they've always done, and they know it works.
Microsoft's big mistake was letting any computer anywhere run Windows. Know why? Because MS can't possibly make secure and non-buggy versions of Windows for every single configuration out there, it's just not possible.
Apple has really tight integration between it's hardware & software, and it's because of this that the quality of the products is so high.
Seriously, Apple products still have a few bugs every now and then, and Apple knows exactly how to fix them because they make everything themselves so they are familiar with all the components.
I think Apple's biggest mistake would be to let any 'beige box' run Mac OS X.
It would nearly nullify Mac hardware sales, which aren't great at the moment, and Apple would become another stuggling software company.
Jimzip
A struggling software company with iPods...at least until that fad fades.
Originally posted by mynamehere
A struggling software company with iPods...at least until that fad fades.
Yeah. Hahah. I was going to mention iPods, and how even though they may support the company for years yet, it would be sad to see all of the computers stop being made.. But I think I'll let it sit
Jimzip
Article from Macworld UK
Asking: ?Why have we been able to maintain our position??, Jobs pointed to Apple?s secret success sauce.
?The iPod looks like a piece of hardware, but it?s not. It?s software. And iTunes is the best jukebox and iTunes Music Store is the best digital music distribution service?.
Apple?s competitors need to overcome a foe that boasts: ?World class hardware, applications and services,? he said.
These constituents, ?work together seamlessly?, Jobs added.
And this is the secret, he stressed. Apple?s ?whole widget? approach to music is its strength. It produces the software, the devices and the store.
?No other company does it all,? he said, ?The PC ecosystem where one company makes the hardware another makes the software doesnt work, we do all of them?, he added.
I don't think Apple'll be leaving the hardware market anytime soon...
Originally posted by Matsu
I call bulls*it on the "not enough demand" comments.
I'd be surprised if they weren't true. Is there enough people wanting to pay the extra money for an fm receiver to warrant the price hike for everyone (go out and look at the comparative prices once one is integrated), I'd say no. Apple has a modular design where if you want an accessory to do it you can add it at your own expense and their sales say they have the right design and function going right now. I'm sure if they feel later they can use it to add value they might but radio obviously isn't that big a seller or the iPod wouldn't be as successful as it is so just because you want something don't think you're the norm because clearly you aren't.
-------------
Originally posted by Lincolnrozelle
always with the the iPod radio.
What is it with you people?
What kind of radio then FM, LW, MW?
Or digital?
Internet radio?
Digital is where it is all going but until there is more convergence there there is no need. If you want a radio buy a radio, why buy a radio/iPod for £139/£200 when you can pick up a tiny portable one for £20 - if not less.
Mobile phone come with radios if you're such a gadget freak.. get one of those.
I doubt very much that Mr Jobs wants to get into producing radios. What's next? Televsion? Microwaves? Freezers? Fax Machines?
Get a life.
As far as Jobs being a buddhist: I doubt it.
He may like some of their ideas but a buddhist wouldn't have any interest in Apple. they're not big in individuality, proabaly more keen on M$.
Nuff said. Probably pi@@ed a lot of people off with my first post.
There's no reason for an iPod not to have a radio. Eh, I guess there is. I think they should sell an iPod, and then a Photo Viewer, and then an address book viewer and clock and three seperate devices. That would be a lot better.
Yes, he is a buddhist. Maybe he has an interest in Apple because he started it and everything?
Maybe a few years down the line when everything has switched to digital radio perhaps it could be produced as an attachement (Belkin or Griffin).
An iPod needs a radio like chocolate cake needs mustard.
Again, if you need radio so desparately get a mobile phone with a radio.
Squeezing functionality into things is Microsoft's game... Apple is about form and function. Microsoft is about shoving things into packages... take MS Office for example - the most bloated package ever invented.
You're not the customer Apple wants.
You're the Palm customer: calendar, contacts, Excel, Word, Camera, voice recorder, stylus, phone, minesweeper, MP3, etc