I've test-driven one. The interior is dang ugly, and the exterior isn't much better. And except for the wheel, which was nice-feeling for a plastic wheel, the interior felt really, really cheap.
If Chevy put out that car they would be getting reemed a new one by the automotive 'press'. But because its a Honda I hear hardly a criticizm, if any at all.
Can you imagine if GM came out with Scion? They would be ripped to shreds. Since Toyota built them? No problem.
Intruments in center of dash in the Saturn Ion? "What were they thinking!?"
Instruments in center of dash in Scions? "Its not so bad"
The press is so biased its not funny.
Not to say American cars can't improve but there isn't as much difference as people think, if at all.
Do people know the large Chevy Impala gets over 30 MPG highway?
Do people know that Honda and Toyota lied about the MPG their cars get?
I think Consumer Reports has the largest privately-owned car testing facility in the states. Their reliability reports are based on people reporting all problems they have had with particular cars to the organization. other than that, they are the only major tester who doesn't allow cars to use their ratings as a basis for advertising, so they are clearly not biased.
Just because Consumer Reports gives your car bad reliability/whatever ratings, however, doesn't mean that you're not allowed to still like your car.
Complaints against them always just seem like sour apples to me.
Consumer Reports has always been biased against domestic cars. They have a rep for it.
You can read a review in CR ripping apart, say, the Chevy Colorado.
Then I pick up an issue of Motor Trend and they praise it.
the t5 with auto, select shift is a total hoot to drive that turbo doesn't require shifting your brains out can't beat turbo broad torque with a standard it would be sweeeeeet
you may need a review from an enthusists mag. volvo give free service first 36kk miles, the audi a4 also a hoot is free everything for 4 years including bulbs an wiper blades, brakes everything (great service) my wife (i) takes the audi a6 every 10k miles and they changed everything--the best i have ever had (better than lexus)
what's the torque steer of each with fwd?? (tsx, volvo) i haven't driven either with fwd
Consumer Reports has always been biased against domestic cars. They have a rep for it.
You can read a review in CR ripping apart, say, the Chevy Colorado.
Then I pick up an issue of Motor Trend and they praise it.
Who would you believe?
Car people do not work for CR.
i buy reliability and safety--oh and the car mags don't make a mistake--wasn't the volare car of the year---yea they like it for 15 minutes. live with the car. look at jd powers long term ownership and mag LONG TERM TESTS. take a look at msn auto. look at resale values some cars with 60k have no value--honda's with 250k still have value. good cars tend to have good reviews across the board. you can also use edmunds (i did ) and read consumer reviews. anyone can like the car the first week. live with someone and live with a car. see the car after a crash. it takes a while. did i like my m3 convertible???sure untill the service dept could fix a sharp sqeek in the clutch-= service matters --A LOT.
Not to say American cars can't improve but there isn't as much difference as people think, if at all.
Do people know the large Chevy Impala gets over 30 MPG highway?
Do people know that Honda and Toyota lied about the MPG their cars get?
Perception
I think you're getting carried away here. Remember that the EPA, not the automotive press, is the most reputable source for fuel mileage. Anyone who reads Consumer Reports knows that the Chevy Impala gets 21mpg city, 32mph highway with the 3.4 liter V6, and 20mpg city, 30mpg highway with the 3.8 liter V6.
The EPA, not Honda and Toyota Corporations, is responsible for the fuel economy numbers on Honda and Toyota's web pages. So if they're lying, they have the United States federal government in cahoots with them.
Quote:
You can read a review in CR ripping apart, say, the Chevy Colorado.
Then I pick up an issue of Motor Trend and they praise it.
In all fairness, Car & Driver ranked the Colorado dead last when compared to the Dodge Dakota, Toyota Tacoma, Honda Ridgeline, and Nissan Frontier. So CR isn't the only outlet that criticizes that truck.
Torque steer was noticeable, but not bad, on the TSX. It should have been more noticeable on the S40 T5, but I didn't notice any at all. And I certainly didn't notice any on the S40 2.4i. Admittedly, I didn't have the chance to drive the cars back-to-back on the same roads.
You don't think maybe you're being just a teensy-weensy bit touchy?
(It was just advice, I'm not trying to divine your motives. Although, when you find yourself going into debt for wants and not needs, you should be honest as to why.)
No, I'm not being touchy. You're acting like Tyler Durden. You accused me of hubris (though I think you meant vanity or materialism) because I was asking for advice between two cars.
Why am I willing to go into debt here?
(1) Because it's a want AND a need, not just a want. My current car, a 1999 Civic coupe, is too small and is not nearly as safe as I would like. I need two more doors, an upgrade in room, and major upgrade in safety.
(2) Because driving is my main hobby. I want a nice car because it's fun to drive, not to impress others. Do you have hobbies? Or do you only buy what you "need" in the hunter-gatherer sense of the word?
According solely to the information you gave here about your own evaluation of these two cars (I know little about either model) as well as about your own preferences,? the Volvo.
Not to say American cars can't improve but there isn't as much difference as people think, if at all.
No - American cars really do suck. I will never forgive Dodge for the multiple transmission failures and stuff falling off of my 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan. On top of that, it depriciated from 31K down to 4K in 4 years/96K miles - My honda odyssey is so much better I don't know how Dodge can sell any minivans.
I recently drove a new Lincoln town car - total piece of crap.
The big 3 spend all their time worrying about their built up pension liabilities and union concessions. The interiors are crap, the drive is crap (except for a very few cars), and the cars fall apart.
the market works, cars of value have well value....why has honda, toy, etc made inroads in so called "american cars" quality, quality quality--as loans are streatched to 3-4-5-6-7 years you need something that will last with low ownership costs one of the most is the depreciation. if the "american" car companies stopped producing rent a car quality to keep their lines running therefore the union contracts satisfied, then they can focus on quality. after being burned by so called "american" cars. people and myself say hey there is nowhere on my 1040 that says donation to "american car comp" so it comes out of my pocket. i/ consumers need to look 4-5 years down the road. i've had enough cars that i get tired of going back to the dealer on my time/ which is money to me, to fix a mess the manufacturer can't or won't. why did i buy a lexus ls430--because when i test drove a 3 year old car with 50k miles (that's all they had to test drive close to the newest model)i was so impressed i said, hey this will be me in 3 years, this car holds it's value and hassle free. gee whiz ---mine was.
we should make a list of the "american" cars and where they are produced. that will open many a consuemrs eyes. my attitude when i suggested my brother buy a honda--i said it uses US steel and employs a US worker--he bought the car and had it 12 trouble free years. soooo this notion of "american" is corp propaganda
now not all honda and toyotas are hassle free, e.g. honda and it's road noise, trans failures and sliding door major problems--took a redesign and 3-4 years to fix, and lets talk about sludge in toy v6 engines for YEARS. but it's continuous quality improvement.US companies can do it, but they have to have the mind set to do it., great example was hyundai--so ford, chevy, and chrysler CAN IF THEY CHOOSE TO
I am considering both the Volvo S40 2.4i (cheaper than the TSX) and the Volvo S40 T5 (more expensive than the TSX).
The TSX and the 2.4i make equal torque (though the TSX makes 35 more horsepower). The T5 makes a lot more torque (230 versus 170 ft-lbs), though barely more horsepower than the TSX.
I think an automotive journalist put it best with:
"In these homogenous automotive times, the ethnic motorcar has become seriously blurred. For German precision and reliability, we buy Japanese; for Japanese thrift at the cost of style, we buy from Detroit; and for Detroit pizazz and over-the-top performance, we go to the Germans."
I think an automotive journalist put it best with:
"In these homogenous automotive times, the ethnic motorcar has become seriously blurred. For German precision and reliability, we buy Japanese; for Japanese thrift at the cost of style, we buy from Detroit; and for Detroit pizazz and over-the-top performance, we go to the Germans."
The review was for a maserati.
I agree that the time of the "ethnic motorcar" is waning rapidly, but for slightly different reasons. Take the Volvo S40, one of the two cars I'm looking at. It's made by Volvo, a Swedish company. But Volvo Cars is a wholly owned subsidiary of Ford Corp, an American company. And the S40 was designed jointly with Mazda (resulting in the Mazda3) and Ford (resulting in a Europe-only version of the Focus). So is the Volvo S40 European, American, or Japanese? Who knows.
Likewise, when you buy a Jetta made in Mexico, are you really buying a German car? In the world of international commerce, these labels are rapidly becoming useless.
I think you're getting carried away here. Remember that the EPA, not the automotive press, is the most reputable source for fuel mileage. Anyone who reads Consumer Reports knows that the Chevy Impala gets 21mpg city, 32mph highway with the 3.4 liter V6, and 20mpg city, 30mpg highway with the 3.8 liter V6.
The EPA, not Honda and Toyota Corporations, is responsible for the fuel economy numbers on Honda and Toyota's web pages. So if they're lying, they have the United States federal government in cahoots with them.
In all fairness, Car & Driver ranked the Colorado dead last when compared to the Dodge Dakota, Toyota Tacoma, Honda Ridgeline, and Nissan Frontier. So CR isn't the only outlet that criticizes that truck.
Also, you say Consumer Reports bashes every American vehicle? How about these CR rankings?
Buick Park Avenue: Recommended
Cadillac CTS: Best Buy
Cadillac DeVille: Recommended
Cadillac Escalade: Recommended
Chevy Corvette: Best Buy
Chevy Silverade: Best Buy
Chevy Tahoe/Suburban: Best Buy
Chrysler 300: Best Buy
Chrysler Crossfire: Recommended
Chrysler PT Cruiser: Best Buy
Chrysler Town & Country: Best Buy
Dodge Caravan: Best Buy
Dodge Dakota: Recommended
Dodge Durango: Recommended
Dodge Magnum: Best Buy
Dodge Ram: Recommended
Ford Escape: Best Buy
Ford Expedition: Best Buy
Ford Explorer: Recommended
Ford F-150: Best Buy
Ford Focus: Recommended
Ford Ranger: Recommended
GMC Sierra: Best Buy
GMC Yukon/Denali: Recommended
Jeep Liberty: Recommended
I'm sorry that CR bashed the Chevy Colorado, but that doesn't mean that they're in a conspiracy to demean all American cars.
Consumer Reports didn't label either the Scion xA or the xB "recommended."
CR has to be dragged kicking and screaming to recommend an American vehicle. Their data is meaningless to most car owners.
While the Colorado finished last next to those trucks it wasn't panned. CR basically said the Colorado was a POS. Funny how those who own the truck love it.
As for EPA mileage, GM cars are almost always spot-on with estimated MPG, while Honda and Toyota are way off. Conspiracy? Dont know, but something is rotten.
No - American cars really do suck. I will never forgive Dodge for the multiple transmission failures and stuff falling off of my 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan. On top of that, it depriciated from 31K down to 4K in 4 years/96K miles - My honda odyssey is so much better I don't know how Dodge can sell any minivans.
I recently drove a new Lincoln town car - total piece of crap.
The big 3 spend all their time worrying about their built up pension liabilities and union concessions. The interiors are crap, the drive is crap (except for a very few cars), and the cars fall apart.
My mothers Chevy Celebrity is 18 yrs old!
If you take proper care of a car they tend to last a long time.
There are clunkers in every make. I know 2 people who own Nissan's and they are having problems left and right.
As for interiors I tend to agree with you. The only decent interiors I have seen personally are the Chevy Cobalt, 2006 Impala, the new GM minivans, and the Pontiac G6 isnt bad. They are supposedly much improved in the 2007 models that only the press got to see, but GM and Ford move way too slow in response to competition.
I agree that the time of the "ethnic motorcar" is waning rapidly, but for slightly different reasons. Take the Volvo S40, one of the two cars I'm looking at. It's made by Volvo, a Swedish company. But Volvo Cars is a wholly owned subsidiary of Ford Corp, an American company. And the S40 was designed jointly with Mazda (resulting in the Mazda3) and Ford (resulting in a Europe-only version of the Focus). So is the Volvo S40 European, American, or Japanese? Who knows.
Likewise, when you buy a Jetta made in Mexico, are you really buying a German car? In the world of international commerce, these labels are rapidly becoming useless.
In many cases yes. Most Suzuki's are Korean made by Daewoo which is owned by GM.
Saab is owned by GM as is much of Isuzu.
Mazda is controlled by Ford.
But if you buy a Toyota or Honda you are buying Japanese. If they build the cars here it means squat because most of the content is foreign and the profits go back to japan.
If you want to buy Japanese and not feel guilty buy a Suzuki or a Mazda.
CR has to be dragged kicking and screaming to recommend an American vehicle. Their data is meaningless to most car owners.
Dragged kicking and screaming to recommending 25 American vehicles you mean? Including 13 Best Buys?
Quote:
While the Colorado finished last [in Car and Driver] next to those trucks it wasn't panned. CR basically said the Colorado was a POS. Funny how those who own the truck love it.
Car and Driver: "One tester commented, "It's as if Chevy were looking for ways not to compete." ... In the end, what really stung us was how little innovative thinking went into the Colorado ... GM had 20 years to get its compact pickup right. The Colorado should be better."
Consumer Reports: "Chevy's Colorado and its GMC Canyon companion focus on the light-duty noncommercial user--assuming heavy haulers will move up to the large Silverado and Sierra. Given that mission, these are useful, well-balanced small trucks." Incidentally, for "total score," on a scale of 100, the 2WD 5-cylinder model scored a 43 and the 4WD 5-cylinder model scored a 44. The average total for compact pickups is 42.5.
Who is panning the Colorado again?
Quote:
But if you buy a Toyota or Honda you are buying Japanese. If they build the cars here it means squat because most of the content is foreign and the profits go back to japan.
My dollars contribute to my community NO MORE if I buy from Ford than from Toyota. The CEOs and shareholders of those corporations benefit. Not "Japan as a whole" or "America as a whole." The CEOs of don't share with the everyday people of the countries they live in. They just live like fat-cats themselves. As for shareholders, you don't have to be American to buy stock in GM and you don't have to be Japanese to buy stock in Toyota. I believe both are publicly-traded companies, though I could be wrong.
The only public benefit these companies give is jobs, and that is determined by where their manufacturaing plants are located, not where the CEO lives. And Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai all do most of their manufacturing of US-market cars in the US, even though the CEOs live in East Asia.
When General Motors starts contributing to public education in Oregon, or pays for road repair in Oregon, then maybe I'll see a patriotic reason to buy GM. But at the moment, neither GM nor Toyota is doing jack to help the community I live in, so I see no reason to be more loyal to one than the other.
Comments
Originally posted by Mitlov
I've test-driven one. The interior is dang ugly, and the exterior isn't much better. And except for the wheel, which was nice-feeling for a plastic wheel, the interior felt really, really cheap.
If Chevy put out that car they would be getting reemed a new one by the automotive 'press'. But because its a Honda I hear hardly a criticizm, if any at all.
Can you imagine if GM came out with Scion? They would be ripped to shreds. Since Toyota built them? No problem.
Intruments in center of dash in the Saturn Ion? "What were they thinking!?"
Instruments in center of dash in Scions? "Its not so bad"
The press is so biased its not funny.
Not to say American cars can't improve but there isn't as much difference as people think, if at all.
Do people know the large Chevy Impala gets over 30 MPG highway?
Do people know that Honda and Toyota lied about the MPG their cars get?
Perception
Originally posted by progmac
I think Consumer Reports has the largest privately-owned car testing facility in the states. Their reliability reports are based on people reporting all problems they have had with particular cars to the organization. other than that, they are the only major tester who doesn't allow cars to use their ratings as a basis for advertising, so they are clearly not biased.
Just because Consumer Reports gives your car bad reliability/whatever ratings, however, doesn't mean that you're not allowed to still like your car.
Complaints against them always just seem like sour apples to me.
Consumer Reports has always been biased against domestic cars. They have a rep for it.
You can read a review in CR ripping apart, say, the Chevy Colorado.
Then I pick up an issue of Motor Trend and they praise it.
Who would you believe?
Car people do not work for CR.
Originally posted by e1618978
If you are an expert in a particular area, look at their reports from that area and you will see why people dislike them.
I look at their stereo ratings, and see ratings written by fools.
I always find those the funniest.
They recommend an inexpensive SONY stereo or Panasonic.
They are pure garbage to anyone who knows about them
The only low end Hi-Fi worth a damn are Harmon-Kardan, Denon, Onkyo, and Marantz.
NAD is the best of the lot and not much more expensive but CR has never heard of them!
the t5 with auto, select shift is a total hoot to drive that turbo doesn't require shifting your brains out can't beat turbo broad torque with a standard it would be sweeeeeet
you may need a review from an enthusists mag. volvo give free service first 36kk miles, the audi a4 also a hoot is free everything for 4 years including bulbs an wiper blades, brakes everything (great service) my wife (i) takes the audi a6 every 10k miles and they changed everything--the best i have ever had (better than lexus)
what's the torque steer of each with fwd?? (tsx, volvo) i haven't driven either with fwd
Originally posted by steve666
Consumer Reports has always been biased against domestic cars. They have a rep for it.
You can read a review in CR ripping apart, say, the Chevy Colorado.
Then I pick up an issue of Motor Trend and they praise it.
Who would you believe?
Car people do not work for CR.
i buy reliability and safety--oh and the car mags don't make a mistake--wasn't the volare car of the year---yea they like it for 15 minutes. live with the car. look at jd powers long term ownership and mag LONG TERM TESTS. take a look at msn auto. look at resale values some cars with 60k have no value--honda's with 250k still have value. good cars tend to have good reviews across the board. you can also use edmunds (i did ) and read consumer reviews. anyone can like the car the first week. live with someone and live with a car. see the car after a crash. it takes a while. did i like my m3 convertible???sure untill the service dept could fix a sharp sqeek in the clutch-= service matters --A LOT.
Originally posted by NOFEER
volvo give free service first 36kk miles
It was 45K miles, but no longer - they discontinued this in the 2005 model year.
Originally posted by steve666
The press is so biased its not funny.
Not to say American cars can't improve but there isn't as much difference as people think, if at all.
Do people know the large Chevy Impala gets over 30 MPG highway?
Do people know that Honda and Toyota lied about the MPG their cars get?
Perception
I think you're getting carried away here. Remember that the EPA, not the automotive press, is the most reputable source for fuel mileage. Anyone who reads Consumer Reports knows that the Chevy Impala gets 21mpg city, 32mph highway with the 3.4 liter V6, and 20mpg city, 30mpg highway with the 3.8 liter V6.
The EPA, not Honda and Toyota Corporations, is responsible for the fuel economy numbers on Honda and Toyota's web pages. So if they're lying, they have the United States federal government in cahoots with them.
You can read a review in CR ripping apart, say, the Chevy Colorado.
Then I pick up an issue of Motor Trend and they praise it.
In all fairness, Car & Driver ranked the Colorado dead last when compared to the Dodge Dakota, Toyota Tacoma, Honda Ridgeline, and Nissan Frontier. So CR isn't the only outlet that criticizes that truck.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=9470
Also, you say Consumer Reports bashes every American vehicle? How about these CR rankings?
Buick Park Avenue: Recommended
Cadillac CTS: Best Buy
Cadillac DeVille: Recommended
Cadillac Escalade: Recommended
Chevy Corvette: Best Buy
Chevy Silverade: Best Buy
Chevy Tahoe/Suburban: Best Buy
Chrysler 300: Best Buy
Chrysler Crossfire: Recommended
Chrysler PT Cruiser: Best Buy
Chrysler Town & Country: Best Buy
Dodge Caravan: Best Buy
Dodge Dakota: Recommended
Dodge Durango: Recommended
Dodge Magnum: Best Buy
Dodge Ram: Recommended
Ford Escape: Best Buy
Ford Expedition: Best Buy
Ford Explorer: Recommended
Ford F-150: Best Buy
Ford Focus: Recommended
Ford Ranger: Recommended
GMC Sierra: Best Buy
GMC Yukon/Denali: Recommended
Jeep Liberty: Recommended
I'm sorry that CR bashed the Chevy Colorado, but that doesn't mean that they're in a conspiracy to demean all American cars.
an you imagine if GM came out with Scion? They would be ripped to shreds. Since Toyota built them? No problem.
Consumer Reports didn't label either the Scion xA or the xB "recommended."
Originally posted by NOFEER
are we talking standard trans or auto
Manual transmission.
Torque steer was noticeable, but not bad, on the TSX. It should have been more noticeable on the S40 T5, but I didn't notice any at all. And I certainly didn't notice any on the S40 2.4i. Admittedly, I didn't have the chance to drive the cars back-to-back on the same roads.
Originally posted by dmz
You don't think maybe you're being just a teensy-weensy bit touchy?
(It was just advice, I'm not trying to divine your motives. Although, when you find yourself going into debt for wants and not needs, you should be honest as to why.)
No, I'm not being touchy. You're acting like Tyler Durden. You accused me of hubris (though I think you meant vanity or materialism) because I was asking for advice between two cars.
Why am I willing to go into debt here?
(1) Because it's a want AND a need, not just a want. My current car, a 1999 Civic coupe, is too small and is not nearly as safe as I would like. I need two more doors, an upgrade in room, and major upgrade in safety.
(2) Because driving is my main hobby. I want a nice car because it's fun to drive, not to impress others. Do you have hobbies? Or do you only buy what you "need" in the hunter-gatherer sense of the word?
Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
According solely to the information you gave here about your own evaluation of these two cars (I know little about either model) as well as about your own preferences,? the Volvo.
That's the way I'm leaning.
Originally posted by steve666
Not to say American cars can't improve but there isn't as much difference as people think, if at all.
No - American cars really do suck. I will never forgive Dodge for the multiple transmission failures and stuff falling off of my 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan. On top of that, it depriciated from 31K down to 4K in 4 years/96K miles - My honda odyssey is so much better I don't know how Dodge can sell any minivans.
I recently drove a new Lincoln town car - total piece of crap.
The big 3 spend all their time worrying about their built up pension liabilities and union concessions. The interiors are crap, the drive is crap (except for a very few cars), and the cars fall apart.
we should make a list of the "american" cars and where they are produced. that will open many a consuemrs eyes. my attitude when i suggested my brother buy a honda--i said it uses US steel and employs a US worker--he bought the car and had it 12 trouble free years. soooo this notion of "american" is corp propaganda
now not all honda and toyotas are hassle free, e.g. honda and it's road noise, trans failures and sliding door major problems--took a redesign and 3-4 years to fix, and lets talk about sludge in toy v6 engines for YEARS. but it's continuous quality improvement.US companies can do it, but they have to have the mind set to do it., great example was hyundai--so ford, chevy, and chrysler CAN IF THEY CHOOSE TO
Originally posted by Mitlov
Not necessarily true.
I am considering both the Volvo S40 2.4i (cheaper than the TSX) and the Volvo S40 T5 (more expensive than the TSX).
The TSX and the 2.4i make equal torque (though the TSX makes 35 more horsepower). The T5 makes a lot more torque (230 versus 170 ft-lbs), though barely more horsepower than the TSX.
Originally posted by e1618978
No - American cars really do suck. . . .
I think an automotive journalist put it best with:
"In these homogenous automotive times, the ethnic motorcar has become seriously blurred. For German precision and reliability, we buy Japanese; for Japanese thrift at the cost of style, we buy from Detroit; and for Detroit pizazz and over-the-top performance, we go to the Germans."
The review was for a maserati.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
I think an automotive journalist put it best with:
"In these homogenous automotive times, the ethnic motorcar has become seriously blurred. For German precision and reliability, we buy Japanese; for Japanese thrift at the cost of style, we buy from Detroit; and for Detroit pizazz and over-the-top performance, we go to the Germans."
The review was for a maserati.
I agree that the time of the "ethnic motorcar" is waning rapidly, but for slightly different reasons. Take the Volvo S40, one of the two cars I'm looking at. It's made by Volvo, a Swedish company. But Volvo Cars is a wholly owned subsidiary of Ford Corp, an American company. And the S40 was designed jointly with Mazda (resulting in the Mazda3) and Ford (resulting in a Europe-only version of the Focus). So is the Volvo S40 European, American, or Japanese? Who knows.
Likewise, when you buy a Jetta made in Mexico, are you really buying a German car? In the world of international commerce, these labels are rapidly becoming useless.
Originally posted by Mitlov
I think you're getting carried away here. Remember that the EPA, not the automotive press, is the most reputable source for fuel mileage. Anyone who reads Consumer Reports knows that the Chevy Impala gets 21mpg city, 32mph highway with the 3.4 liter V6, and 20mpg city, 30mpg highway with the 3.8 liter V6.
The EPA, not Honda and Toyota Corporations, is responsible for the fuel economy numbers on Honda and Toyota's web pages. So if they're lying, they have the United States federal government in cahoots with them.
In all fairness, Car & Driver ranked the Colorado dead last when compared to the Dodge Dakota, Toyota Tacoma, Honda Ridgeline, and Nissan Frontier. So CR isn't the only outlet that criticizes that truck.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=9470
Also, you say Consumer Reports bashes every American vehicle? How about these CR rankings?
Buick Park Avenue: Recommended
Cadillac CTS: Best Buy
Cadillac DeVille: Recommended
Cadillac Escalade: Recommended
Chevy Corvette: Best Buy
Chevy Silverade: Best Buy
Chevy Tahoe/Suburban: Best Buy
Chrysler 300: Best Buy
Chrysler Crossfire: Recommended
Chrysler PT Cruiser: Best Buy
Chrysler Town & Country: Best Buy
Dodge Caravan: Best Buy
Dodge Dakota: Recommended
Dodge Durango: Recommended
Dodge Magnum: Best Buy
Dodge Ram: Recommended
Ford Escape: Best Buy
Ford Expedition: Best Buy
Ford Explorer: Recommended
Ford F-150: Best Buy
Ford Focus: Recommended
Ford Ranger: Recommended
GMC Sierra: Best Buy
GMC Yukon/Denali: Recommended
Jeep Liberty: Recommended
I'm sorry that CR bashed the Chevy Colorado, but that doesn't mean that they're in a conspiracy to demean all American cars.
Consumer Reports didn't label either the Scion xA or the xB "recommended."
CR has to be dragged kicking and screaming to recommend an American vehicle. Their data is meaningless to most car owners.
While the Colorado finished last next to those trucks it wasn't panned. CR basically said the Colorado was a POS. Funny how those who own the truck love it.
As for EPA mileage, GM cars are almost always spot-on with estimated MPG, while Honda and Toyota are way off. Conspiracy? Dont know, but something is rotten.
Originally posted by e1618978
No - American cars really do suck. I will never forgive Dodge for the multiple transmission failures and stuff falling off of my 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan. On top of that, it depriciated from 31K down to 4K in 4 years/96K miles - My honda odyssey is so much better I don't know how Dodge can sell any minivans.
I recently drove a new Lincoln town car - total piece of crap.
The big 3 spend all their time worrying about their built up pension liabilities and union concessions. The interiors are crap, the drive is crap (except for a very few cars), and the cars fall apart.
My mothers Chevy Celebrity is 18 yrs old!
If you take proper care of a car they tend to last a long time.
There are clunkers in every make. I know 2 people who own Nissan's and they are having problems left and right.
As for interiors I tend to agree with you. The only decent interiors I have seen personally are the Chevy Cobalt, 2006 Impala, the new GM minivans, and the Pontiac G6 isnt bad. They are supposedly much improved in the 2007 models that only the press got to see, but GM and Ford move way too slow in response to competition.
Originally posted by Mitlov
I agree that the time of the "ethnic motorcar" is waning rapidly, but for slightly different reasons. Take the Volvo S40, one of the two cars I'm looking at. It's made by Volvo, a Swedish company. But Volvo Cars is a wholly owned subsidiary of Ford Corp, an American company. And the S40 was designed jointly with Mazda (resulting in the Mazda3) and Ford (resulting in a Europe-only version of the Focus). So is the Volvo S40 European, American, or Japanese? Who knows.
Likewise, when you buy a Jetta made in Mexico, are you really buying a German car? In the world of international commerce, these labels are rapidly becoming useless.
In many cases yes. Most Suzuki's are Korean made by Daewoo which is owned by GM.
Saab is owned by GM as is much of Isuzu.
Mazda is controlled by Ford.
But if you buy a Toyota or Honda you are buying Japanese. If they build the cars here it means squat because most of the content is foreign and the profits go back to japan.
If you want to buy Japanese and not feel guilty buy a Suzuki or a Mazda.
Toyota can go fuck themselves.
Originally posted by steve666
CR has to be dragged kicking and screaming to recommend an American vehicle. Their data is meaningless to most car owners.
Dragged kicking and screaming to recommending 25 American vehicles you mean? Including 13 Best Buys?
While the Colorado finished last [in Car and Driver] next to those trucks it wasn't panned. CR basically said the Colorado was a POS. Funny how those who own the truck love it.
Car and Driver: "One tester commented, "It's as if Chevy were looking for ways not to compete." ... In the end, what really stung us was how little innovative thinking went into the Colorado ... GM had 20 years to get its compact pickup right. The Colorado should be better."
Consumer Reports: "Chevy's Colorado and its GMC Canyon companion focus on the light-duty noncommercial user--assuming heavy haulers will move up to the large Silverado and Sierra. Given that mission, these are useful, well-balanced small trucks." Incidentally, for "total score," on a scale of 100, the 2WD 5-cylinder model scored a 43 and the 4WD 5-cylinder model scored a 44. The average total for compact pickups is 42.5.
Who is panning the Colorado again?
But if you buy a Toyota or Honda you are buying Japanese. If they build the cars here it means squat because most of the content is foreign and the profits go back to japan.
My dollars contribute to my community NO MORE if I buy from Ford than from Toyota. The CEOs and shareholders of those corporations benefit. Not "Japan as a whole" or "America as a whole." The CEOs of don't share with the everyday people of the countries they live in. They just live like fat-cats themselves. As for shareholders, you don't have to be American to buy stock in GM and you don't have to be Japanese to buy stock in Toyota. I believe both are publicly-traded companies, though I could be wrong.
The only public benefit these companies give is jobs, and that is determined by where their manufacturaing plants are located, not where the CEO lives. And Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai all do most of their manufacturing of US-market cars in the US, even though the CEOs live in East Asia.
When General Motors starts contributing to public education in Oregon, or pays for road repair in Oregon, then maybe I'll see a patriotic reason to buy GM. But at the moment, neither GM nor Toyota is doing jack to help the community I live in, so I see no reason to be more loyal to one than the other.