Picasa is so much better than iPhoto

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  • Reply 21 of 150
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,422member
    does picassa have the ability to export to an online photo site, such as shutterfly, with iphoto its a snap--anyone wishing online photo finishing i give 4 thumbs up to shutterfly.



    also, i agree backing up iphoto is a pain, hope someone has a reasonable strategy THAT WORKS. maybe there should be a forum subject just for backup.
  • Reply 22 of 150
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kishan

    4. Picasa creates albums automatically in chronological order. I wish that I could create albums in iPhoto under calendar year headings. This is exactly how Picasa organizes it albums.





    I'm not sure what you mean by that but you can definitely sort chronologically in iPhoto. In fact, if you expand the library source, you'll find that everything is sorted by year headings. You can also click on a day, a week, a month or a year or select a combination of these in the calender and iPhoto will show you the photos taken in that time.



    ---





    Setting keywords is as easy as selecting the photos you want to tag and dragging and dropping them onto the keyword.



    Frankly, there's nothing easier out there...not even Picasa. I do agree that Apple needs to make iPhoto use Spotlight (finding photos on the computer without taking into account the location and without organizing the photos for you) and CoreData to stop the library bloat (just keeping the list of changes vs keeping different version of the photos.)



    But these would up the requirements to 10.4+, G4-only and other nasty stuff that people aren't ready to accept.



    Picasa's requirement are a 300MHz Pentium with 64MB of RAM...I can't imagine it running on such a computer at anything but "mind-boggling slow" speeds. Someone prove me wrong...there's no way, IMO, that Picasa can do half the things it does on a 300MHz computer with RAM requirement standards of the late 90s.



    Apple is probably serving a a larger customer base percentage-wise (percent of Mac users using iPhoto vs percent of Windows users using Picasa), simply because iPhoto has design-decisions that favor slower computers.



    Simply put, Apple *could* design something like Picasa...but people on G3s and/or slow HHDs will tear their hair out when Spotlight kicks in all the time to find all the photos on the computer, or applies 3 layers of CoreImage changes to a photo.



    Apple could hack a different solution into iPhoto (something similar to Picasa) to accomodate people on 10.2 and 10.3 and G3s but what's the point when CoreData, CoreImag, Spotlight, and fast Intel processors in consumer products are the future.



    I personally hope Apple dumps 10.2-10.3 support and adds all of Aperture's goodies...sure, that would mean alienating a large userbase portion but, hey, if you're still on a G3 when G4s and G5s have been around and Intel processors are right around the corner, I think it's time for an upgrade...and 10.4.3 and the new iLife will come with the computer...BONUS!!!



    edit: actually...I just checked iLife 2005's requirements and they do indeed ask for 10.3.6! It was released before 10.4 was released so there was no way they could add a full-blown Spotlight or CoreImage implementation. Now I have no doubt in my mind that iLife 2006 will require 10.4.3 or 10.4.4 and come with Spotlight and CoreImage (and hopefully CoreData) support. iPhoto is about to get a lot better. iMovie also.
  • Reply 23 of 150
    Quote:

    Same with iTunes...it could be 10 times better, but alas, it's being held back by that fact that it has to run on Windows...so no CoreData, no Spotlight, no CoreAudio effects for yuo. The iTunes team has been unwilling to split the codebase and with iTunes 5 and now 6 that whizzed by, it's highly unlikely we're gonna see something done about this for at least another year...





    What would be the point of Spotlight in iTunes? The iTunes search is already really similar and gets the job done quite well. CoreAudio effects on the other hand would be really sweet. And what could CoreData add to iTunes.





    In order for iPhoto to get rid of the bloat and use versioning it would would use a list of changes form CoreData and render CoreImage effects on the fly non destructively. This would of course require a CoreImage capable GPU. This would still alienate 10.4 users with Mac mini's for example so that still doesn't fix the problem. Apple should have been shipping CoreImage capable GPU's since the mini came out.
  • Reply 24 of 150
    I?d like to clear up some points a few people have mentioned and then address the iPhoto/Picasa ease of use comparison. First here are some basic system requirements for Picasa since we will be making comparisons?



    Picasa requires:

    ?\tPC with 300MHz Pentium® processor and MMX® technology.

    ?\t64 MB RAM (128MB Recommended)

    ?\t50 MB available hard disk space (100MB recommended)

    ?\t800 × 600 pixels, 16 bit color monitor.

    ?\tMicrosoft Windows 2000 or Microsoft® Windows XP.

    ?\tMicrosoft® Internet Explorer 5.01 or better (6.0 recommended). If at any time you get an ?unable to authenticate? error, you should upgrade to IE 6.0.

    ?\tMicrosoft® DirectX 7.0 or higher (8.1 ships with XP, 9.0b recommended).

    ?\tOptional: 56K Internet connection speed or better (for access to any online services and picture sharing via Hello).

    Related information about Picasa:



    File types supported include:



    Images: jpg, bmp, gif, png, psd, tif

    Movies: avi, mpg, wmv, asf, mov (QuickTime)

    RAW data files, including cameras from Canon, Nikon, Kodak, Minolta and Pentax.



    Learn how Picasa works with other browsers.

    Picasa makes use of the following software libraries: IJG, zlib, and libtiff



    For additional information on Picasa?s features use the following link; http://picasa.google.com/index.html



    OK here?s my summary of what makes Picasa a definitively better application; First Picasa is completely non-intrusive meaning you simply install it and it categorizes your photos based on the information you currently have associated with your pictures. Additionally, with Picasa you can crop, edit, resize, and many other features without ever affecting your original file. You can simply click undo and any changes you might have made will be removed. This might be achievable with iPhoto but it simply isn?t as easy. Yes you read that right someone wrote an easier app to use than Apple?s iPhoto



    I also wouldn?t be doing Google any justice if I failed to mention the coolness factors like the multiple viewing options Picasa offers and the numerous export options available (again several things you wont find in iPhoto).



    I?d like to finish up by saying that I love iPhoto and have since it came out, but I am 100% sure after spending a significant amount of time using both that Picasa is a superior app with more functionality and it?s easier to use. The downside is that it?s not available for my Mac. For those of you who have the means (a crummy PC that you are forced to use) give this free app a shot you may just be surprised.
  • Reply 25 of 150
    jabohnjabohn Posts: 566member
    Quote:

    Additionally, with Picasa you can crop, edit, resize, and many other features without ever affecting your original file.



    iPhoto actually does this automatically, it never touches the original file. At any time, you can go back to the original. If, for example, the next day you change your mind about the changes you've made, control-click on the thumbnail and choose "Revert to Original".



    Quote:

    I also wouldn?t be doing Google any justice if I failed to mention the coolness factors like the multiple viewing options Picasa offers and the numerous export options available (again several things you wont find in iPhoto).



    True about viewing multiple full-sized photos at once, but what other Export features does it have that iPhoto doesn't? Just curious...
  • Reply 26 of 150
    Quote:

    Originally posted by krisneph

    What would be the point of Spotlight in iTunes? The iTunes search is already really similar and gets the job done quite well. CoreAudio effects on the other hand would be really sweet. And what could CoreData add to iTunes.





    Same deal as iPhoto...it would store CoreAudio changes to a song



    Quote:



    In order for iPhoto to get rid of the bloat and use versioning it would would use a list of changes form CoreData and render CoreImage effects on the fly non destructively. This would of course require a CoreImage capable GPU. This would still alienate 10.4 users with Mac mini's for example so that still doesn't fix the problem. Apple should have been shipping CoreImage capable GPU's since the mini came out.




    Let's bust this myth once and for all (I know this asking for too much but...) The fact is, you *don't* need a CoreImage capable GPU for CoreImage. A lot of the confusion comes from the wording Apple uses: "CoreImage Support/Not supported". This is simply *not* true. Any Mac with an Altivec chip can use CoreImage just fine. The effects will simply take more time to apply because they will be passed to Altivec instead of the GPU.



    If you or others still do not believe me, take any G4 computer with a graphics card that doesn't have a "CoreImage capable GPU" and download iMaginator, LiveQuartz Image Editor, or the experimental build of SNES9x downloadable from Emuscene.com and play with the filters and effects.



    If you want, you can also try to find PhotoBooth...it'll run on my computer with a very "not supported" Radeon 8500...it'll run slow but it'll run.



    Using CoreImage for simple filters such as Sepia, Color Adjustment, are actually really fast...but don't expect Bump Distortions, Crystalize, Bloom, Gloom and other fancy effects to be applied in real-time...but they're definitely usable on this old Dual 800 G4.



    Of course, the problem still lies in the piling of CI effects...if the computer has to render 4-5 layers of effects on the fly on the original photo, things may get much slower than they are now in iPhoto.



    I don't know how Picasa does it but I suspect they make multiple copies of the original but with the changes...or does it simply erase the original and only keep the changes? Judging by what some people have said in this thread, the former would be what Picasa does...or they'd have the same problem iPhoto would have with CoreImage filters being applied one after another onto the original photo.
  • Reply 27 of 150
    So how much use is it when the CPU has to render it. It probably becomes really slow specialy when piling up effects. And you lose real time effects and it can't render the changes on the fly. So to load up your images you would have to be waiting for them to render.
  • Reply 28 of 150
    kishankishan Posts: 732member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    I'm not sure what you mean by that but you can definitely sort chronologically in iPhoto. In fact, if you expand the library source, you'll find that everything is sorted by year headings. You can also click on a day, a week, a month or a year or select a combination of these in the calender and iPhoto will show you the photos taken in that time.



    ---





    Setting keywords is as easy as selecting the photos you want to tag and dragging and dropping them onto the keyword.







    What i mean about the chronologic ordering is that in Picasa, the heading "2005" would appear and then all the albums I added in 2005 would appear under that heading. So I could just follow the tree "2005-->Holiday Party" or something like that. Right now, if I click on 2005 in the library menu, I get all the pictures from 2005 without any additional organization imposed upon them.



    As far as setting keywords, I would much rather just be able to click on a folder in the source column and see all the pictures in that folder. This is what i did when I switched. I created a new album for each of my folders that used to be under "my pictures" in the "my documents" folder of my WinPC. I was able to keep the pictures together that i wanted to, but I lost the chronology of the album orders.
  • Reply 29 of 150
    so all you guys fussing about not being able to back up your photos - all i've been doing is copying my iPhoto Library folder to disc. when i reformatted a powerbook i got a couple months back, i simply replaced the existing folder with the one that had all my crap in it, opened iPhoto - and voila - iPhoto and all my pics exactly as i remembered them. what's the big deal? to me, that's "backing up", and f'n simple to boot...



    EDIT: oh, and google always claims that a mac version is in development, but we never see them surface - google desktop, google earth, and now picasa, all had messages up saying a mac version was on the way, i'm still waiting..
  • Reply 30 of 150
    jabohnjabohn Posts: 566member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Trans9B

    so all you guys fussing about not being able to back up your photos - all i've been doing is copying my iPhoto Library folder to disc.



    Exactly. You can just copy the whole Library yourself. You can also utilize the built-in burning capability. I burned a whole DVD full of photos from the last 2 years onto 1 DVD and I set it up so it kept my albums in place. When I put the DVD in, iPhoto brings it up in much the same way as iTunes brings up a music CD.
  • Reply 31 of 150
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Trans9B

    and f'n simple to boot...



    No, it ain't fucking simple to boot because that would require people actually knowing where iPhoto stores its library, and actually selecting, one by one, what photo they want to backup, do they want the original version, or do they want the version they played with in iPhoto, or do they want the one that's stored in one of the zillion folders you have to navigate to until you find the one you want.



    That is not simple to boot at all. And if you use iPhoto for any croping, resizing, enhancing, or just simple brightness/contrast, you'll notice that using your way of backing stuff up, you'll have more than 2 versions of the same picture.



    That, my friend, is lame.
  • Reply 32 of 150
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Trans9B

    so all you guys fussing about not being able to back up your photos - all i've been doing is copying my iPhoto Library folder to disc. when i reformatted a powerbook i got a couple months back, i simply replaced the existing folder with the one that had all my crap in it, opened iPhoto - and voila - iPhoto and all my pics exactly as i remembered them. what's the big deal? to me, that's "backing up", and f'n simple to boot...



    EDIT: oh, and google always claims that a mac version is in development, but we never see them surface - google desktop, google earth, and now picasa, all had messages up saying a mac version was on the way, i'm still waiting..




    You are indeed correct they do claim to have a Mac version of everything (google earth, google desktop, etc.) in the works but it doesnt seem to materialize, however I have scoured the google/picasa pages for a "mac version in the works" statement and unfortunatly I cant seem to find it. sorry for the misinformation there.



    I am not sure how to answer some of the comparison questions I've read but from what I can see the coolest thing about Picasa that I can see is the fact that I never have to worry about where I move the original jpeg on my work machine because Picasa seems to find it and doesnt make duplicates everywhere. additionally it always offers a "undo" button on the filters that I've added, which seems to be too much to ask on iPhoto....at least easily. Perhaps I'm wrong on this one but I havent found an easy way to undo even simple changes without several clicks in iPhoto.



    As far as the back-up arguement is concerned for whatever reason (possibly my personal cry for help here) I cant seem to share my back-up libraries with any PC's even my own which is a real pain in the ass with iPhoto. It seems to work seemlessly in Picasa. Any advice on what I might be doing wrong?
  • Reply 33 of 150
    Gene Clean is spot on.



    Trans9b - I have zero idea how that worked for you. Read my post - I copied my entire iPhoto folder to an external HD. When I copied it back (as my internal HD failed and had to be replaced), iPhoto was mighty confused. ANY photo I had manipulated (crop, rotate, enhance) had multiple versions. While all my albums were there, NONE had any photos in them. Not one of my photo books I'd made up retained their data.



    I now have over 4000 images in iPhoto, of which over half are duplicates. After several hours I think I've cleaned up 10% of the pictures.



    A decent Backup function has to be iPhoto's next upgrade.



    DAvid
  • Reply 34 of 150
    playmaker - ummm....just select the photo you want to revert, click Photos > Revert to original. i suppose it would be useful for there to be a command shortcut for this, or an icon.



    like i said before, its easy to backup Gene Clean. there's a pictures folder in your home directory, within it is an iPhoto Library folder. that's as far as i went - dragged that directly to a dvd. perhaps the reason it worked so well for me is because i copied that iPhoto Library folder into a "fresh" iPhoto with no pictures in it already.



    but you're right in that it should be a one step process...similar to how you can create a backup of your addressbook (File > Backup Address Book)
  • Reply 35 of 150
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gene Clean

    No, it ain't fucking simple to boot because that would require people actually knowing where iPhoto stores its library, and actually selecting, one by one, what photo they want to backup, do they want the original version, or do they want the version they played with in iPhoto, or do they want the one that's stored in one of the zillion folders you have to navigate to until you find the one you want.



    That is not simple to boot at all. And if you use iPhoto for any croping, resizing, enhancing, or just simple brightness/contrast, you'll notice that using your way of backing stuff up, you'll have more than 2 versions of the same picture.



    That, my friend, is lame.




    What ever happened to dragging and dropping from iPhoto directly to the medium in question?



    *That* is ridiculously simple...to boot.



    I'm curious...how does Picasa handle the different versions? And how is its backup methods more intuitive?
  • Reply 36 of 150
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    What ever happened to dragging and dropping from iPhoto directly to the medium in question?



    *That* is ridiculously simple...to boot.



    I'm curious...how does Picasa handle the different versions? And how is its backup methods more intuitive?




    Not sure how it handles the different versions, but from what I can see it doesnt carry multiple versions or copys of the original files because I've looked for them. As far as backing up there are a few options; first any photo from any library can be highlighted and then by clicking hold (bottom left of the screen)you mark them ready for whatever next function needed. Then you can choose the export option or burn cd option on the lower right hand corner to export the files as jpegs onto your disk or where ever you designate. It's not just intuitive its easy and its all right there on screen without having to drop down menus and such.
  • Reply 37 of 150
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Trans9B

    like i said before, its easy to backup Gene Clean. there's a pictures folder in your home directory, within it is an iPhoto Library folder. that's as far as i went - dragged that directly to a dvd. perhaps the reason it worked so well for me is because i copied that iPhoto Library folder into a "fresh" iPhoto with no pictures in it already.



    I had a backup of iPhoto Library folder, too, and nothing I did would make my new iPhoto realize such a folder exists. I tried plain copy in place, I tried copying backup folder contents into new folder created by iPhoto on its first start, I tried removing plist files from ~/Library. Nothing worked. Like others, I ended up sifting through all 3000 photos by hand, filtering out thumbnails, and hand-sorting the remaining real photos into folders by time. All because the dummies in the iPhoto team couldn't put in a simple preference which lets you choose which iPhoto Library folder to use. I'm not buying a single new iPhoto until I hear this is fixed.
    Quote:

    but you're right in that it should be a one step process...similar to how you can create a backup of your addressbook (File > Backup Address Book)



    The backup of the photos is a problem best solved by backup software. There's no reason to push this bloat on every app separately. If someone still has a photo library under 5GB, they won't for long, and then a DVD runs out of space. Not that everyone can write to DVD's for that matter.
  • Reply 38 of 150
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Playmaker

    Not sure how it handles the different versions, but from what I can see it doesnt carry multiple versions or copys of the original files because I've looked for them. As far as backing up there are a few options; first any photo from any library can be highlighted and then by clicking hold (bottom left of the screen)you mark them ready for whatever next function needed. Then you can choose the export option or burn cd option on the lower right hand corner to export the files as jpegs onto your disk or where ever you designate. It's not just intuitive its easy and its all right there on screen without having to drop down menus and such.



    Last time I used Picasa (about 6 months to a year i think) picasa did keep seperate copies of the edited photos. It does it the "other way around" than iPhoto. iPhoto stores a folder "original" and keeps the edited version in its "date-folder". Picasa uses a folder "edited", or labeled something similar, inside the folder with the original photo.



    I wonder, if Apple did make iPhoto 06 use CoreData for non-destrictive editing, how it would be able to re-create non-destructive editing for those photos that you have already edited in prior versions of iPhoto 06. My guess is that you'd still end up with two copies for these files. I'd love non-destricutive editing because currently:



    If I want do do any crop or resize I always work on a copy (hit apple-D), as I am 100% sure that I will never ever remeber which photographs were cropped or not. That basically means that I have 3 copies for a lot of edited photos. The Original, the original-cropped version, and the cropped edited version. Thats just silly and wastes a LOT of space. last time I checked my edited photographs ate up 4GB. waaay to much if you ask me
  • Reply 39 of 150
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BoeManE

    Last time I used Picasa (about 6 months to a year i think) picasa did keep seperate copies of the edited photos. It does it the "other way around" than iPhoto. iPhoto stores a folder "original" and keeps the edited version in its "date-folder". Picasa uses a folder "edited", or labeled something similar, inside the folder with the original photo.



    I wonder, if Apple did make iPhoto 06 use CoreData for non-destrictive editing, how it would be able to re-create non-destructive editing for those photos that you have already edited in prior versions of iPhoto 06. My guess is that you'd still end up with two copies for these files. I'd love non-destricutive editing because currently:



    If I want do do any crop or resize I always work on a copy (hit apple-D), as I am 100% sure that I will never ever remeber which photographs were cropped or not. That basically means that I have 3 copies for a lot of edited photos. The Original, the original-cropped version, and the cropped edited version. Thats just silly and wastes a LOT of space. last time I checked my edited photographs ate up 4GB. waaay to much if you ask me




    For all these reasons, I cannot wait for iPhoto 06 which hopefully will use the meta-data no-harm to originals trick from Aperture.



    and stacks...OH GOD LET THERE BE STACKS!



    I also look for a new iApp that does one click iPhoto/GB/iTunes/iMovie/iDVD backup to a external HDD, they arecheap now-a-days, I mean consumer cheap, and good backup is so soarly lacking in the iLife platform at present.



    They ciould also include this with iWork with a couple of modifications to get more bang for the engineering bucks,
  • Reply 40 of 150
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    What ever happened to dragging and dropping from iPhoto directly to the medium in question?



    *That* is ridiculously simple...to boot.




    Yay, manual backup without preserving metadata!
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