i think the new xbox looks nice, hell of a lot better than that new ps3 or even revolution.
how is this console just a 1.5? i dont see that at all.
will the new ps3 be just 2.5? i dont understand it?
if anything the new xbox is a bigger leap than what the ps3 is offering.
Let me get this straight - the original Xbox was more powerful than the PS2, and now the PS3 is going to be twice as powerful as the 360 - and you think the 360 was a bigger leap? Stay off the crack.
Let me get this straight - the original Xbox was more powerful than the PS2, and now the PS3 is going to be twice as powerful as the 360 - and you think the 360 was a bigger leap? Stay off the crack.
Awwww. You're just bitter that you couldn't get a 360 this week.
They could all very well be .5 updates in a sense...
At some point graphical prowess will not substantially change the way we interact with game environs. They prettier the better, sure, but it doesn't look like any of the systems will suffer for either resolution, polys, or textures -- so perhaps that is not what can distinguish them. And while most games will look better, they may not really play any better.
Things like online play, media center functionality, web browsing, next gen optical support, backwards compatibility etc etc... may end being more important than outright graphical goodness. Basically there's a lot more that can go into a successful console these days, and yeah, it does come back tot he games. If the software teams work out innovative game models that may mean more to the gaming experience than a few extra fps or polys.
If the Sony does indeed support dual screen 1080P, that would be neat, but almost no one will be in a position to use that feature. The 720P/1080i of Xbox is more than fine.
System specs also look roughly equal with the exception of next gen media on the PS3. It's obvious that Sony is pushing to make BR Disc the HDTV media of choice. If they succeed, it may in fact enjoy a very long run (similar to CD's) as the physical media for consumers -- for the simple fact that it can show the maximum resolution of HD and fit feature length and double length films with bonuses and special features all on one disc!
However, if one side in this stupid standards battle doesn't emerge quickly and cleanly by next christmas, consumers may just not give a damn, and blue-ray or HD-DVD may not mean a thing to anyone.
Maybe better features here and there, but "twice as powerful" is really stretching it.
Xbox 360 has 3 cores, and the PS3 has 8 (7 special purpose, 1 general purpose) - I don't think that the table you linked to conveys that very well.
It could easily be twice as powerful, and the larger format disk is a huge advantage.
The difference between the digital video out of the PS3 and the analog video out of the 360 will also be huge - just look at the quality differences when we all moved from analog VGA to digital DVI on our computers, it will be the same improvement for game consoles.
Xbox 360 has 3 cores, and the PS3 has 8 (7 special purpose, 1 general purpose) - I don't think that the table you linked to conveys that very well.
It could easily be twice as powerful, and the larger format disk is a huge advantage.
The difference between the digital video out of the PS3 and the analog video out of the 360 will also be huge - just look at the quality differences when we all moved from analog VGA to digital DVI on our computers, it will be the same improvement for game consoles.
the core debate has been going on outside this forum for a while now and basically i haven't scene one single professional mention the ps3 as that much mroe powerful .
game developers are finding it hard to produce games using all 3 cores so imagine what it would be like for the cell.
also, the development costs for the ps3 is said to be ridiculous.
the disk format is not a huge advantage. 3 maybe 4 publishers max would take advantage of that disk format.
Awwww. You're just bitter that you couldn't get a 360 this week.
Naaaa, I think the bitter ones are the people who stood in the freezing cold for 12 hours and didn't get one because most stores where only allotted 3 dozen units -as well, all the people who got one, and then the thing overheated after 15 minutes. Way to fuck up the release M$!
What can you expect, after Microsoft hires a fucking *idiot to design the box - the same guy who designs their mouses and keyboards, this is rich:
"He's a laughingstock at Microsoft because he's so uneducated electronically," says his dad, Robert, in a phone interview. "He's not a computer geek. He's not a gamer. He can barely navigate his way around e-mail."
And to top it off? They hire the same Marketing "Genius" who guided the Dreamcast to failure. We have all the ingredients for a perfect storm here.
[B]game developers are finding it hard to produce games using all 3 cores so imagine what it would be like for the cell.
also, the development costs for the ps3 is said to be ridiculous.
Same arguements went around last time "The Xbox is going to be so easy to develope for" Well, the problem is development time and costs are only really a problem when you have no market share, like the Xbox does. Further more, you develope a game for PS3 it is guarranteed to work on the PS4, 5, 6 etc. Sony has treated developers well in this regard. A hit game on the Playstation has the potential to bring in 4 times the amount of a successful Xbox game -
it is unfair of you to measure the risk without measuring the reward.
Quote:
the disk format is not a huge advantage. 3 maybe 4 publishers max would take advantage of that disk format.
I disagree. These consoles are going to have to last 5 years - what happens when games get to 30 gigs? Ooooh, but that's right, we are talking about Bill Gates here: Mr. ?640K ought to be enough for anybody."
the market share could be significantly reduced for the ps3.
people put too much weight on past performance and in the technology field its been proven the past wont always predict the future.
This isn't just about performance - this is about having one of the stongest brands on the planet. An area MS is failing miserably at. Even if the PS3 market share where cut in half, you are looking at 50 million users. That's Xbox 1 and Nintendo Cube combined.
Quote:
by no means was the xbox a failure as a gaming unit.
It was a failure in almost every sense of the word. If any other company lost 4 - 5 billion, the product would have been pulled. Apple had to pull the fucking Cube after only 1 quarter. This is the problem with companies who have to much money - same thing happend to Disney - you stop thinking.
Quote:
that marketing "genius" did wonders for the dreamcast. it wasn't his fault the dreamcast failed.
come on now if i could market a piece of dog poop to you
if you buy it is it my fault it tastes like crap?
i did my job.
He took the job, he shouldn't have taken it if he couldn't sell it. I don't know if the Dreamcast was a peice of crap or not - from what I hear, it wasn't - it had a great launch. It was the buzz around the PS2 that killed it - that's right - better marketing. Regardless, if the Dreamcast was a piece of shit, then Moore shouldn't have taken the job. You can't sell something you don't believe in, that's marketing 101.
cool gut i'm going to try and not sound mean but you're an idiot.
marketing 101? lmao, you think he didn't believe in his product? you're talking straight out of your ass man. you know nothing of marketing.
do you even know anything about gaming? the gaming industry?
the dreamcast was a great system and did a lot of things right. for the first year of its life the dreamcast had much better games than the ps2 did.
sony pulled in gamers by hyping their machine (something they do very well). how'd they do that? by promoting this emotion engine that never achieved what they said it would.
there are other factors in selling a product. the marketer brings you in, after that its up to the product to do the rest.
Your the one who referred to the Dreamcast as a peice of shit -
Quote:
"come on now if i could market a piece of dog poop to you
if you buy it is it my fault it tastes like crap? "
Well???
The reason it failed, is because Sony out hyped Sega. Moore couldn't keep the momentum going, got crushed under the pressure, I guess you can say. He had to fire the entire team he brought over from Reebok. Nice.
Quote:
the dreamcast was a great system and did a lot of things right. for the first year of its life the dreamcast had much better games than the ps2 did.
sony pulled in gamers by hyping their machine (something they do very well). how'd they do that? by promoting this emotion engine that never achieved what they said it would.
Thanks for proving my point. It's about marketing, not technology. Oh - you mean they OVERHYPED it? Good god, those BASTARDS!! THEY CAN'T LIE - THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!!!
Quote:
at launch the dreamcast was sold out everywhere.
the flaws were not of the marketing department.
Great job at contradicting yourself there. It was a great machine, but it flopped anyway - not because of Marketing - nooo - some other "Mysterious" reason I guess - even by your own admission that Sony out hyped them. Why don't you take some time to put a proper argument together - you are becoming a laughing stock.
""We screwed up," Moore told retailers in back in April. "Everything that went wrong with Saturn, we've learned from: insufficient distribution; poorly thought out marketing campaign; hardly any software at launch -- all of those things have been resolved and are well in our past."
"But right now, the next-generation systems from Sony and Nintendo are basically still on paper, and Sega is looking to get hold of gamers early and hook them, long before next year's releases of other systems. "I'd rather be where I am right now," says Moore, "than having the promise of where Sony might be a year from now. The ball's in our court; if we screw it up, drop it, fumble it, it's our own fault."
The guy is fucked up:
""I like to say I get to boys in their bedrooms," Moore jokes, "but my PR department says that's not the right thing to say."
Is that supposed to be fucking funny? What a fuckup. Good luck to Microsoft, that's all I can say - 'cause they are gonna need it.
maybe you have a personal vendetta against moore? were you on that dreamcast team? did he fire you? awww.
sony always does promise stuff later down the line. so far its worked but eventually ( i hope) after they fail to hold true this time around people will get sick of it and not fall into the same routine.
again it wasn't the marketing departments fault. sega had a lot to bounce back from but in the end it didn't have a dvd drive nor the support from EA.
Sega couldn't hold on under the pressure. Who knows if sega had the financial backing microsoft does to hold on just a bit longer people wouldve realized dreamcast had the better games for a good while.
the core debate has been going on outside this forum for a while now and basically i haven't scene one single professional mention the ps3 as that much mroe powerful .
Umm, I'm a professional, and I've said it before: if the Cell lives up to half of what we've seen it do in IBM tests and benchmarks, the PS3 will handily outpace the 360. What some people don't seem to realize is that the 360's processor elements are more similar to those in the Cell than those in the PPC970. They are not deep OOE designs, and they require a lot from the programmer and/or compiler to optimize. The Cell has one extra level of hierarchy than the 360's chip, but they are more similar than they are different, and the fact that Cell has a few extra elements is certainly going to help give it an edge.
There is some possibility that the 360's chip may perform better than the Cell in areas of sequential conditional branching and very frequent thread switching, since there's less intra-chip communication required and less data to flush. But in this case both chips will perform poorly in comparison to their optimal instruction mixes, and these programming methods are discouraged for both architectures.
I want one too, on ebay I could get one for 1,000 with a extra wireless controller and a game of my choice, so im debating cause 1,000 is alot...and also im thinking cause its the 399.99 bundle pack, with already the harddrive and the wireless controller? Can you guys give me any feedback on that offer?
I want one too, on ebay I could get one for 1,000 with a extra wireless controller and a game of my choice, so im debating cause 1,000 is alot...and also im thinking cause its the 399.99 bundle pack, with already the harddrive and the wireless controller? Can you guys give me any feedback on that offer?
I am waiting and periodically calling the local stores to see when / if they will get a new shipment in.
Comments
Originally posted by Elixir
well great opinions you got there.
i think the new xbox looks nice, hell of a lot better than that new ps3 or even revolution.
how is this console just a 1.5? i dont see that at all.
will the new ps3 be just 2.5? i dont understand it?
if anything the new xbox is a bigger leap than what the ps3 is offering.
Let me get this straight - the original Xbox was more powerful than the PS2, and now the PS3 is going to be twice as powerful as the 360 - and you think the 360 was a bigger leap? Stay off the crack.
Originally posted by the cool gut
Let me get this straight - the original Xbox was more powerful than the PS2, and now the PS3 is going to be twice as powerful as the 360 - and you think the 360 was a bigger leap? Stay off the crack.
Awwww. You're just bitter that you couldn't get a 360 this week.
Keep it civil, or stop.
At some point graphical prowess will not substantially change the way we interact with game environs. They prettier the better, sure, but it doesn't look like any of the systems will suffer for either resolution, polys, or textures -- so perhaps that is not what can distinguish them. And while most games will look better, they may not really play any better.
Things like online play, media center functionality, web browsing, next gen optical support, backwards compatibility etc etc... may end being more important than outright graphical goodness. Basically there's a lot more that can go into a successful console these days, and yeah, it does come back tot he games. If the software teams work out innovative game models that may mean more to the gaming experience than a few extra fps or polys.
Originally posted by the cool gut
...the PS3 is going to be twice as powerful as the 360...
You're kidding, right?
Maybe better features here and there, but "twice as powerful" is really stretching it.
System specs also look roughly equal with the exception of next gen media on the PS3. It's obvious that Sony is pushing to make BR Disc the HDTV media of choice. If they succeed, it may in fact enjoy a very long run (similar to CD's) as the physical media for consumers -- for the simple fact that it can show the maximum resolution of HD and fit feature length and double length films with bonuses and special features all on one disc!
However, if one side in this stupid standards battle doesn't emerge quickly and cleanly by next christmas, consumers may just not give a damn, and blue-ray or HD-DVD may not mean a thing to anyone.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
You're kidding, right?
Maybe better features here and there, but "twice as powerful" is really stretching it.
Xbox 360 has 3 cores, and the PS3 has 8 (7 special purpose, 1 general purpose) - I don't think that the table you linked to conveys that very well.
It could easily be twice as powerful, and the larger format disk is a huge advantage.
The difference between the digital video out of the PS3 and the analog video out of the 360 will also be huge - just look at the quality differences when we all moved from analog VGA to digital DVI on our computers, it will be the same improvement for game consoles.
Originally posted by e1618978
Xbox 360 has 3 cores, and the PS3 has 8 (7 special purpose, 1 general purpose) - I don't think that the table you linked to conveys that very well.
It could easily be twice as powerful, and the larger format disk is a huge advantage.
The difference between the digital video out of the PS3 and the analog video out of the 360 will also be huge - just look at the quality differences when we all moved from analog VGA to digital DVI on our computers, it will be the same improvement for game consoles.
the core debate has been going on outside this forum for a while now and basically i haven't scene one single professional mention the ps3 as that much mroe powerful .
game developers are finding it hard to produce games using all 3 cores so imagine what it would be like for the cell.
also, the development costs for the ps3 is said to be ridiculous.
the disk format is not a huge advantage. 3 maybe 4 publishers max would take advantage of that disk format.
Originally posted by audiopollution
Awwww. You're just bitter that you couldn't get a 360 this week.
Naaaa, I think the bitter ones are the people who stood in the freezing cold for 12 hours and didn't get one because most stores where only allotted 3 dozen units -as well, all the people who got one, and then the thing overheated after 15 minutes. Way to fuck up the release M$!
What can you expect, after Microsoft hires a fucking *idiot to design the box - the same guy who designs their mouses and keyboards, this is rich:
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/...s/13249864.htm
"He's a laughingstock at Microsoft because he's so uneducated electronically," says his dad, Robert, in a phone interview. "He's not a computer geek. He's not a gamer. He can barely navigate his way around e-mail."
And to top it off? They hire the same Marketing "Genius" who guided the Dreamcast to failure. We have all the ingredients for a perfect storm here.
Originally posted by Elixir
[B]game developers are finding it hard to produce games using all 3 cores so imagine what it would be like for the cell.
also, the development costs for the ps3 is said to be ridiculous.
Same arguements went around last time "The Xbox is going to be so easy to develope for" Well, the problem is development time and costs are only really a problem when you have no market share, like the Xbox does. Further more, you develope a game for PS3 it is guarranteed to work on the PS4, 5, 6 etc. Sony has treated developers well in this regard. A hit game on the Playstation has the potential to bring in 4 times the amount of a successful Xbox game -
it is unfair of you to measure the risk without measuring the reward.
the disk format is not a huge advantage. 3 maybe 4 publishers max would take advantage of that disk format.
I disagree. These consoles are going to have to last 5 years - what happens when games get to 30 gigs? Ooooh, but that's right, we are talking about Bill Gates here: Mr. ?640K ought to be enough for anybody."
people put too much weight on past performance and in the technology field its been proven the past wont always predict the future.
people keep forgetting the xbox broke into the market. it was microsofts first stab at developing gaming hardware.
by no means was the xbox a failure as a gaming unit.
that marketing "genius" did wonders for the dreamcast. it wasn't his fault the dreamcast failed.
come on now if i could market a piece of dog poop to you
if you buy it is it my fault it tastes like crap?
i did my job.
Originally posted by Elixir
the market share could be significantly reduced for the ps3.
people put too much weight on past performance and in the technology field its been proven the past wont always predict the future.
This isn't just about performance - this is about having one of the stongest brands on the planet. An area MS is failing miserably at. Even if the PS3 market share where cut in half, you are looking at 50 million users. That's Xbox 1 and Nintendo Cube combined.
by no means was the xbox a failure as a gaming unit.
It was a failure in almost every sense of the word. If any other company lost 4 - 5 billion, the product would have been pulled. Apple had to pull the fucking Cube after only 1 quarter. This is the problem with companies who have to much money - same thing happend to Disney - you stop thinking.
that marketing "genius" did wonders for the dreamcast. it wasn't his fault the dreamcast failed.
come on now if i could market a piece of dog poop to you
if you buy it is it my fault it tastes like crap?
i did my job.
He took the job, he shouldn't have taken it if he couldn't sell it. I don't know if the Dreamcast was a peice of crap or not - from what I hear, it wasn't - it had a great launch. It was the buzz around the PS2 that killed it - that's right - better marketing. Regardless, if the Dreamcast was a piece of shit, then Moore shouldn't have taken the job. You can't sell something you don't believe in, that's marketing 101.
marketing 101? lmao, you think he didn't believe in his product? you're talking straight out of your ass man. you know nothing of marketing.
do you even know anything about gaming? the gaming industry?
the dreamcast was a great system and did a lot of things right. for the first year of its life the dreamcast had much better games than the ps2 did.
sony pulled in gamers by hyping their machine (something they do very well). how'd they do that? by promoting this emotion engine that never achieved what they said it would.
there are other factors in selling a product. the marketer brings you in, after that its up to the product to do the rest.
at launch the dreamcast was sold out everywhere.
the flaws were not of the marketing department.
Originally posted by Elixir
you think he didn't believe in his product?
Your the one who referred to the Dreamcast as a peice of shit -
"come on now if i could market a piece of dog poop to you
if you buy it is it my fault it tastes like crap? "
Well???
The reason it failed, is because Sony out hyped Sega. Moore couldn't keep the momentum going, got crushed under the pressure, I guess you can say. He had to fire the entire team he brought over from Reebok. Nice.
the dreamcast was a great system and did a lot of things right. for the first year of its life the dreamcast had much better games than the ps2 did.
sony pulled in gamers by hyping their machine (something they do very well). how'd they do that? by promoting this emotion engine that never achieved what they said it would.
Thanks for proving my point. It's about marketing, not technology. Oh - you mean they OVERHYPED it? Good god, those BASTARDS!! THEY CAN'T LIE - THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!!!
at launch the dreamcast was sold out everywhere.
the flaws were not of the marketing department.
Great job at contradicting yourself there. It was a great machine, but it flopped anyway - not because of Marketing - nooo - some other "Mysterious" reason I guess - even by your own admission that Sony out hyped them. Why don't you take some time to put a proper argument together - you are becoming a laughing stock.
Originally posted by Elixir
the flaws were not of the marketing department.
There are non so blind than those who fail to open their eyes:
http://archive.salon.com/tech/featur...ast/print.html
""We screwed up," Moore told retailers in back in April. "Everything that went wrong with Saturn, we've learned from: insufficient distribution; poorly thought out marketing campaign; hardly any software at launch -- all of those things have been resolved and are well in our past."
"But right now, the next-generation systems from Sony and Nintendo are basically still on paper, and Sega is looking to get hold of gamers early and hook them, long before next year's releases of other systems. "I'd rather be where I am right now," says Moore, "than having the promise of where Sony might be a year from now. The ball's in our court; if we screw it up, drop it, fumble it, it's our own fault."
The guy is fucked up:
""I like to say I get to boys in their bedrooms," Moore jokes, "but my PR department says that's not the right thing to say."
Is that supposed to be fucking funny? What a fuckup. Good luck to Microsoft, that's all I can say - 'cause they are gonna need it.
maybe you have a personal vendetta against moore? were you on that dreamcast team? did he fire you? awww.
sony always does promise stuff later down the line. so far its worked but eventually ( i hope) after they fail to hold true this time around people will get sick of it and not fall into the same routine.
again it wasn't the marketing departments fault. sega had a lot to bounce back from but in the end it didn't have a dvd drive nor the support from EA.
Sega couldn't hold on under the pressure. Who knows if sega had the financial backing microsoft does to hold on just a bit longer people wouldve realized dreamcast had the better games for a good while.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
I never thought that Mac devotees could be outdone. Then I met the gamers.
i'm not a gamer if that is what you are trying to get at.
though they are devoted.
Originally posted by Elixir
the core debate has been going on outside this forum for a while now and basically i haven't scene one single professional mention the ps3 as that much mroe powerful .
Umm, I'm a professional, and I've said it before: if the Cell lives up to half of what we've seen it do in IBM tests and benchmarks, the PS3 will handily outpace the 360. What some people don't seem to realize is that the 360's processor elements are more similar to those in the Cell than those in the PPC970. They are not deep OOE designs, and they require a lot from the programmer and/or compiler to optimize. The Cell has one extra level of hierarchy than the 360's chip, but they are more similar than they are different, and the fact that Cell has a few extra elements is certainly going to help give it an edge.
There is some possibility that the 360's chip may perform better than the Cell in areas of sequential conditional branching and very frequent thread switching, since there's less intra-chip communication required and less data to flush. But in this case both chips will perform poorly in comparison to their optimal instruction mixes, and these programming methods are discouraged for both architectures.
Originally posted by evazquez757
I want one too, on ebay I could get one for 1,000 with a extra wireless controller and a game of my choice, so im debating cause 1,000 is alot...and also im thinking cause its the 399.99 bundle pack, with already the harddrive and the wireless controller? Can you guys give me any feedback on that offer?
I am waiting and periodically calling the local stores to see when / if they will get a new shipment in.