iwork is worth the price solely for keynote. period. if you don't think so, i would suggest you might not be using it correctly. try to stop thinking of it as a presentation app. hell, it's the cheapest basic compositing app out there today. period. hell, you can have it do awesome training quicktime demos, trade show kiosks, etc. in like, no time, and very little learning curve.
admittedly, pages is a bit of a "well, it's int he box, so i guess that's nice" sort of thing going for it, and john gruber at daringfireball says that apple wants to use pages for all of its documentation, which is a bold (and possibly foolhardy, if it's not ready) move.
the only thing that sucks is that it appears both the ilife and iwork suites are now on a once-a-year-except-itunes-because-that-sells-ipods-so-we'll-update-it-ten-times-more-often schedule, so pages 3 and keynote 4 will be here... um, 12 months from now. see ya then! maybe THEN we'll get numbers 1.0.
It seems like people are so used to Excel, that they just want an Apple version of it.
Maybe Apple knows that not many people use a spreadsheet. I teach at a university, and I use excel all the time for grades. But is it really that commonly-used of an application? Or maybe the table function fulfills the vast majority of what people use the spreadsheets for: It looks like it has formula and sorting and fill and number formatting. Without having used it yet, it looks like it may do everything I'd want. I'm sure other people need more, but as someone else said, Apple need not do everything.
Excel is used in financial environments extensively. Anywhere you do a lot of numerical reports or monthly inputs. It has far more robust features for comparison, statistics and automation. I don't think people give Excel the credit it's due. That said I think it far outdoes what many people need.
I'm curious to see how Apple's going to continue to develop iWork since they just signed agreements with MS for 5 more years of Office. I doubt MS would like it if they were stuck in a contract with a company that released a direct-competitor software suite.
I'm curious to see how Apple's going to continue to develop iWork since they just signed agreements with MS for 5 more years of Office. I doubt MS would like it if they were stuck in a contract with a company that released a direct-competitor software suite.
Then I wonder if Apple is developing a spreadsheet application that's not a spreadsheet application, if you know what I mean.
I'm curious to see how Apple's going to continue to develop iWork since they just signed agreements with MS for 5 more years of Office. I doubt MS would like it if they were stuck in a contract with a company that released a direct-competitor software suite.
Which is why iWork isn't a direct competitor, and a basic spreadsheet for home use won't compete with Excel.
people seem to think that apple is one app away from microsoft or adobe pulling the plug on software development. do people think this is how big business is run? out of spite? i think these apps are way more profitable to these companies than people give them credit for. and there's gotta be at least one person in the halls of adobe and microsoft that think (and i'm making up numbers here), "well, apple is just 10% of our business, but i'll be damned if i'm just going to give up 10% of my business, because most of them will go banging on apple's door for help."
No you're just displaying a uncommon amount of common sense. Apple did what it had to do to secure Office for the transition. Every transition means they get put over a barrel and have to make concessions for support.
Hell if I was Gates or Chizen I'd be raking Steve over the coals as well. He'd do it to them in a heart beat. This is business
But presumably you could buy Appleworks and it will run under Rossetta? Since it isn't Photoshop the performance shuld be OK.
Agreed it is a pain to pay for something previously free with iMacs.
But also, what is there that is wrong/limiting with the spreadsheet for a home user? [Don't get me wrong - it hasn't the features for professional use, but I'm talking home budgets, holiday costings, keeping track of holiday time etc]
I own the previous version of iWork and while I like the new feaures I can't say that I'm dying to upgrade. If I was getting a new iMac or MacBook I might be singing a different tune.
Oh well, probably will buy the new version of iWork anyhow. Besides, its a business expense after all.
I think one of the problems that Apple is creating is that they're talking the difficult road.
Consumers are many things but creativity is something that many lack. Apple is asking them to become creative and dutifully providing the tools necessary. I love iLife and .mac as a system for displaying your media but I actually value tools that will make my life a bit more productive and Apple has a lot of technology that can do that yet they haven't displayed that they are interested.
Checked it out today at MWSF. I was really hoping for more of an update. If this came 6 months after the last ok, but at this pace it will take a decade to get to were I think this software could be.
The Apple guy demoing the product was almost a little ashamed, and suggested that if the user base was bigger that it would accelerate development. However, I generally don't think these guys have that much inside knowledge. Either way the suggestion is crap since if Apple can't find the resources, then who can? Chicken and and egg, they have to build it and then the users will come.
I will be upgrading anyway. It is cheap and I do love Keynote. I just wish I could use Pages instead of Office for all my work.
Off topic: Macworld seemed a bit dull to me. I've been going for years and every year has its flavor. This year it was clearly iPodWorld, with many small and big vendors trying to cash in on the iPod with every imaginable thingy. It was that way last year as well. I guess what I was missing was the cool new software doing something that just blows me away. The best new thing that I saw was the iLife update. Just wish that somebody other than Apple would draw some attention.
I think one of the problems that Apple is creating is that they're talking the difficult road.
Consumers are many things but creativity is something that many lack. Apple is asking them to become creative and dutifully providing the tools necessary. I love iLife and .mac as a system for displaying your media but I actually value tools that will make my life a bit more productive and Apple has a lot of technology that can do that yet they haven't displayed that they are interested.
I somewhat agree with what you're saying but I think Apple wants to concentrate on the 'creative' and less on the 'productive'. I think when people come back from work using their PC (most don't have a choice using those archaic beasts ) the last thing they want to do is 'more work' or be 'productive'. They'll probably want to plop down in front of a TV or Front Row and watch a movie, or listen to music, or create a podcast or blog about their crappy day at work.
It's tough to market something like 'Numbers' or 'Pages'. Only a few people have the willpower to sit down and crunch more numbers or write up a newsletter or whatever at 8:00PM after a full day of work. It's just not fun to most people.
Plenty of people do newsletters and things though and Word is actually horrendous for that. Also these days a lot of the work ends up coming at home. At work I use PCs almost exclusively, at home I use macs where possible because I just prefer the ease of use and interface. Pages can attempt to make the common tasks more easy and sell that way.
Downside is until they can guarantee 100% compatibility people will be reluctant to use it for work they bring home.
Comments
admittedly, pages is a bit of a "well, it's int he box, so i guess that's nice" sort of thing going for it, and john gruber at daringfireball says that apple wants to use pages for all of its documentation, which is a bold (and possibly foolhardy, if it's not ready) move.
the only thing that sucks is that it appears both the ilife and iwork suites are now on a once-a-year-except-itunes-because-that-sells-ipods-so-we'll-update-it-ten-times-more-often schedule, so pages 3 and keynote 4 will be here... um, 12 months from now. see ya then! maybe THEN we'll get numbers 1.0.
Maybe Apple knows that not many people use a spreadsheet. I teach at a university, and I use excel all the time for grades. But is it really that commonly-used of an application? Or maybe the table function fulfills the vast majority of what people use the spreadsheets for: It looks like it has formula and sorting and fill and number formatting. Without having used it yet, it looks like it may do everything I'd want. I'm sure other people need more, but as someone else said, Apple need not do everything.
view the demo
and ask yourself why Apple isn't at the forefront of making a spreadsheet easier to use.
We're not asking that Apple create everything. We're simply asking that if you let Appleworks die on the vine..give us a capable replacement.
Office is still going to sell regardless.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
I'm curious to see how Apple's going to continue to develop iWork since they just signed agreements with MS for 5 more years of Office. I doubt MS would like it if they were stuck in a contract with a company that released a direct-competitor software suite.
Then I wonder if Apple is developing a spreadsheet application that's not a spreadsheet application, if you know what I mean.
And I think its good that Apple and Microsoft are continuing to have a good partnership so that we will have office on the Mac!!
But a basic spreadsheet wouldn't be to bad to have in iWork. But check out Mariner Calc coz its really good!!!
My big question is: is iWork localized now??? I really need a swedish version!!
What is so terrible about Applework's spreadsheet for basic consumer spreadsheet requirements?
At work I use Excel, at home Appleworks. I can't remember the last time I cursed Appleworks, as for home use it does more than enough.
David
Originally posted by CosmoNut
I'm curious to see how Apple's going to continue to develop iWork since they just signed agreements with MS for 5 more years of Office. I doubt MS would like it if they were stuck in a contract with a company that released a direct-competitor software suite.
Which is why iWork isn't a direct competitor, and a basic spreadsheet for home use won't compete with Excel.
am i just being overly naive here?
Originally posted by iMac David
OK, I'll bite.
What is so terrible about Applework's spreadsheet for basic consumer spreadsheet requirements?
At work I use Excel, at home Appleworks. I can't remember the last time I cursed Appleworks, as for home use it does more than enough.
David
The problem is you don't get appleworks with intel macs.
I think iWork should have been free with them.
am i just being overly naive here?
No you're just displaying a uncommon amount of common sense. Apple did what it had to do to secure Office for the transition. Every transition means they get put over a barrel and have to make concessions for support.
Hell if I was Gates or Chizen I'd be raking Steve over the coals as well. He'd do it to them in a heart beat. This is business
But presumably you could buy Appleworks and it will run under Rossetta? Since it isn't Photoshop the performance shuld be OK.
Agreed it is a pain to pay for something previously free with iMacs.
But also, what is there that is wrong/limiting with the spreadsheet for a home user? [Don't get me wrong - it hasn't the features for professional use, but I'm talking home budgets, holiday costings, keeping track of holiday time etc]
David
Oh well, probably will buy the new version of iWork anyhow. Besides, its a business expense after all.
Consumers are many things but creativity is something that many lack. Apple is asking them to become creative and dutifully providing the tools necessary. I love iLife and .mac as a system for displaying your media but I actually value tools that will make my life a bit more productive and Apple has a lot of technology that can do that yet they haven't displayed that they are interested.
wow that was fast!!!
The Apple guy demoing the product was almost a little ashamed, and suggested that if the user base was bigger that it would accelerate development. However, I generally don't think these guys have that much inside knowledge. Either way the suggestion is crap since if Apple can't find the resources, then who can? Chicken and and egg, they have to build it and then the users will come.
I will be upgrading anyway. It is cheap and I do love Keynote. I just wish I could use Pages instead of Office for all my work.
Off topic: Macworld seemed a bit dull to me. I've been going for years and every year has its flavor. This year it was clearly iPodWorld, with many small and big vendors trying to cash in on the iPod with every imaginable thingy. It was that way last year as well. I guess what I was missing was the cool new software doing something that just blows me away. The best new thing that I saw was the iLife update. Just wish that somebody other than Apple would draw some attention.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I think one of the problems that Apple is creating is that they're talking the difficult road.
Consumers are many things but creativity is something that many lack. Apple is asking them to become creative and dutifully providing the tools necessary. I love iLife and .mac as a system for displaying your media but I actually value tools that will make my life a bit more productive and Apple has a lot of technology that can do that yet they haven't displayed that they are interested.
I somewhat agree with what you're saying but I think Apple wants to concentrate on the 'creative' and less on the 'productive'. I think when people come back from work using their PC (most don't have a choice using those archaic beasts
It's tough to market something like 'Numbers' or 'Pages'. Only a few people have the willpower to sit down and crunch more numbers or write up a newsletter or whatever at 8:00PM after a full day of work. It's just not fun to most people.
Downside is until they can guarantee 100% compatibility people will be reluctant to use it for work they bring home.
Originally posted by iMac David
OK, I'll bite.
What is so terrible about Applework's spreadsheet for basic consumer spreadsheet requirements?
At work I use Excel, at home Appleworks. I can't remember the last time I cursed Appleworks, as for home use it does more than enough.
David
I agree, although I would like to see some advanced functions like sumif.