Reasons to switch (back) to Windows

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
All frustrated Mac users unite! Every once in a while, I get so frustrated with the inconvenients and limitations of using a Mac that I just feel like going out and buying a PC instead.

So in an attempt to prove myself wrong, I'd like to start going through each item one by one, and so if others can either debunk it or at least find mitigating factors.

Excuses don't count as mitigating factors btw, so no need to post things like "but but but.... it's not Apple's fault that <reason X>!" That might very well be but why should Mac users care? Also please put aside any loyalty you might have for Apple: I want to consider solely from a consumer's benefits perspective.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Reason #1: Quicken for Mac sucks!!! (and there is no Money for Mac)



    Year after year, I hope that Intuit would finally release a decent Quicken for Mac, but year after year they keeping release the same crap over and over again, with only minor "Mac-only" (hah!) enhancements, like integration with iCal (WTF??)



    The program has an unbelievable number of glitches and shoddiness all over. The Windows version is miles ahead in so many ways it's not even funny (including and especially the UI).



    And this, with SJ welcoming Intuit back into the fold a few years ago, and having its CEO on the board of Apple.



    Of course, if there were solid alternatives, then none of this would matter: we could just all give Intuit the big finger and move on. But no, there is MS Money unfortunately, which I hear is as good if not better than Quicken on the Windows side of things. Now granted, there are a number of low-cost alternatives, but they're also far less full-featured, modern, and their reliability is all up in the air. Who would want to trust one's years of data to some little known one-person software shop.



    Appendix: for a sample of all the bad reviews Quicken for Mac consistently gets from users year after year, release after release:

    http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/6866

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cus..._encoding=UTF8



    Of course, go figure why MacWhore would give 4 stars to the same product when it's so obviously bad: http://www.macworld.com/2005/10/revi...2006/index.php
  • Reply 2 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Reason #2: No support for videochat from the major IM players (MSN, Yahoo IM, Skype, AIM, etc.). And no iChat doesn't count.



    Living far away from my family and having friends and acquaintances in many different locations around the world, I'd love to be able to videochat with them, as all my friends are doing and have been doing for years now with their respective friends and families.



    But of course... I can't. They all have PCs of course, in line with the current statistics for Apple's world market share: 2% or so.



    Now Apple can give me all the crap they want about iChat being a superb solution and all that, but if virtually nobody (outside of their fancy Infinite Loop campus) uses it, then who cares??? And in the same vein, what good is that iSight going to be if all you can is use it with iChat??



    Now I know there are other alternatives, but they're all obscure, and even fewer people use them (and you can imagine how hard it'd be to ask my parents to setup something like that on their own... at least MSN Messenger comes built-in on their PCs).
  • Reply 3 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Reason #3: Office for Mac sucks... Yep, you heard right: it sux!



    I try to use Office as little as possible on my Mac, as everytime I open it, it makes me cringe when I think of how much it sucks compared to the Windows version: inexplicably high CPU usage in Word, horrible font rendering, weid Excel behavior, horribly slow scrolling in both, There is just no comparison. And all those reviews who claim that the Project Center is the best thing since sliced bread, get real!
  • Reply 4 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Reason #4: Web browsing is still slow and not as smooth on the Mac.



    Safari, Firefox, Camino, whichever. They're all pretty good browsers with pretty good rendering and decent speed. However browsing on Windows is still miles ahead in terms of speed, and smoothness of experience. Flash performance on the Mac makes browsing sites with lots of Flash content (and which don't these days) a nightmare of obscenely high CPU usage, poor responsiveness, and jerky rendering. Not to mention the fact that so-called "smooth scrolling" in Safari/Mac OS X is still far smoother had has been for years on Windows than on the Mac. Oh and that Bookmarks menu, forget about opening it in any reasonable amount of time... ever heard of caching Apple?



    And of course, Safari has such glaring limitations it's not even funny (can't get the properties or info of the current page, WTF??)
  • Reply 5 of 120
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    #1: Haven't upgraded on the Quicken front in a couple of years. What features do you use on the Windows side that you miss on the latest Mac version?



    #2: iChat interoperates with AIM 5.5 and higher for videochat. Perhaps if your PC friends upgraded once in a while... Seriously, works great.



    #3: Funny, I keep getting comments from Windows Office users about how much nicer Mac Office is... I think this one is going to have to just be personal preference.



    #4: Er, exactly what 'properties' are you looking for for a page? Perhaps you've just missed where to find it in Safari? As to speed, I can't say that I've noticed a huge hit with Safari 2 vs. the PCs at work running IE6, or Firefox. The Flash engine got a big boost recently, and is now much more snappy... and unlike the PCs at work, the sound and video stay in sync. ("We're so much faster, we can't keep track of it all! Whee!")



    Just curious... if you hate it so much, why do you use a Mac at all? Serious question. I can't stand Windows, so I don't use it. I use what I prefer. Why don't you?
  • Reply 6 of 120
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    wow, cygsid, you really like to see yourself type, huh? if kickaha hadn't gotten in here, you may have had an AI record for "longest thread that has only one participant."
  • Reply 7 of 120
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Because editing your own post doesn't bump the thread to the top.
  • Reply 8 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    Because editing your own post doesn't bump the thread to the top.



    No, not really. I just thought I'd make this a real participatory thread, where others could easily post their own reasons, and each reason could be commented on separately (through quoting).



    Although granted, now that you pointed that out, that's a nice benefit too



    It would have been even nicer if there was a way to have multiple threads in one.
  • Reply 9 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    (...) Just curious... if you hate it so much, why do you use a Mac at all? Serious question. I can't stand Windows, so I don't use it. I use what I prefer. Why don't you?



    That's a very good point for sure, though it's also a very common reaction to attempts to start a lively spirited debate like my thread starter. I would argue that that question and its answer is somewhat irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and that each reason should be evaluated based on its sole merit (or lack thereof).

    However, to answer your question, I am certainly - and have been for a long time now - thinking about alternatives. Of course, the ability to run Windows on a Macintel, whenever that might be, will go a long way toward alleviating my concerns with being a Mac user. Let's just hope that'll happen sooner rather than later. Another option is of course to buy a cheap PC to complement my Mac, but I'd rather have only one machine to do it all (ideally through a virtualization solution for Windows).

    More importantly however, I don't hate Macs. In fact I love many things about it: the elegant Aqua GUI, the elegantly designed Cocoa freeware and shareware apps, the mindset of the platform (focus on ease of use, elegance, and "It just works"), and many others. It's just that it irks me and I find it sometime frustrating the (very real) downsides of the Mac are seldom discussed or brought up in forums like this one. We paint this idyllic but untruthful picture of the Mac experience, probably in a misguided attempt to support the mothership in its efforts to recruit new switchers. I just don't think that's fair or right.
  • Reply 10 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rok

    wow, cygsid, you really like to see yourself type, huh? if kickaha hadn't gotten in here, you may have had an AI record for "longest thread that has only one participant."



    You're right, maybe I should just start my own MacSkeptic blog

    (damn... already taken)
  • Reply 11 of 120
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,458member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cygsid

    Reason #1: Quicken for Mac sucks!!! (and there is no Money for Mac)



    Year after year, I hope that Intuit would finally release a decent Quicken for Mac, but year after year they keeping release the same crap over and over again, with only minor "Mac-only" (hah!) enhancements, like integration with iCal (WTF??)



    The program has an unbelievable number of glitches and shoddiness all over. The Windows version is miles ahead in so many ways it's not even funny (including and especially the UI).




    So don't use it. I'm serious in that it is actually becoming much more easy for me take care of most of my banking issues through a web interface. I do use Mac Quicken to keep track of my checkbook register,(and I could use a dozen other programs to do this) but other than that, all the things I would use an advanced version of Quicken for can be taken care of better online.



    I have a brokerage account, home equity line (zero balance on it), two checking accounts and two savings accounts all online with Wells Fargo. I much prefer to deal with them all through the web interface than through Quicken on any platform.



    Everything that Quicken used to build into their program can now be done on the web. Better still Quicken often attempts to make money off you managing your finances whereas my bank often attempts to save me money by working to get my business in multiple financial areas.



    Quicken wants your yearly upgrade fee, they often want monthly fees for online account access. For Wells Fargo the fees total up to $10 a month.



    I'll keep that money thank you very much.



    Nick
  • Reply 12 of 120
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,458member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cygsid

    Reason #2: No support for videochat from the major IM players (MSN, Yahoo IM, Skype, AIM, etc.). And no iChat doesn't count.



    Living far away from my family and having friends and acquaintances in many different locations around the world, I'd love to be able to videochat with them, as all my friends are doing and have been doing for years now with their respective friends and families.



    But of course... I can't. They all have PCs of course, in line with the current statistics for Apple's world market share: 2% or so.



    Now Apple can give me all the crap they want about iChat being a superb solution and all that, but if virtually nobody (outside of their fancy Infinite Loop campus) uses it, then who cares??? And in the same vein, what good is that iSight going to be if all you can is use it with iChat??



    Now I know there are other alternatives, but they're all obscure, and even fewer people use them (and you can imagine how hard it'd be to ask my parents to setup something like that on their own... at least MSN Messenger comes built-in on their PCs).




    As mentioned iChat works with AOL 5.5. My Yahoo Messenger software shows support for video chat as well.



    Nick
  • Reply 13 of 120
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cygsid

    That's a very good point for sure, though it's also a very common reaction to attempts to start a lively spirited debate like my thread starter. I would argue that that question and its answer is somewhat irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and that each reason should be evaluated based on its sole merit (or lack thereof).

    However, to answer your question, I am certainly - and have been for a long time now - thinking about alternatives. Of course, the ability to run Windows on a Macintel, whenever that might be, will go a long way toward alleviating my concerns with being a Mac user. Let's just hope that'll happen sooner rather than later. Another option is of course to buy a cheap PC to complement my Mac, but I'd rather have only one machine to do it all (ideally through a virtualization solution for Windows).

    More importantly however, I don't hate Macs. In fact I love many things about it: the elegant Aqua GUI, the elegantly designed Cocoa freeware and shareware apps, the mindset of the platform (focus on ease of use, elegance, and "It just works"), and many others. It's just that it irks me and I find it sometime frustrating the (very real) downsides of the Mac are seldom discussed or brought up in forums like this one. We paint this idyllic but untruthful picture of the Mac experience, probably in a misguided attempt to support the mothership in its efforts to recruit new switchers. I just don't think that's fair or right.




    You must be reading a different forum than I am, if you think it's all sweetness and light...



    Seriously, there are flaws. Your points so far, however, seem to be either a case of not realizing there is a solution (videoconf with AIM 5.5), or strictly personal preference that doesn't match a lot of other people's (Office). If it truly comes down to personal preference, then there's absolutely no argument that is going to change your mind, because it's not a rational logic-based decision, it's just personal preference.



    The rest we can edumakate you on, but it's still a matter of choice in the end. Me, I can't *imagine* dealing with the vagaries of Windows on a daily basis - I just don't have the time, I have work to get done... but obviously others feel different.
  • Reply 14 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    So don't use it. I'm serious in that it is actually becoming much more easy for me take care of most of my banking issues through a web interface. I do use Mac Quicken to keep track of my checkbook register,(and I could use a dozen other programs to do this) but other than that, all the things I would use an advanced version of Quicken for can be taken care of better online.

    (...)

    Nick




    Oh yeah? I am using Bank of America, and as far as I can see it, they have nothing like the wealth of features a product like Quicken has built over the decade or so of existence.

    I doubt there is a website out there that would give you a complete picture of your financial situation especially across different banks, accounts and so on. Of course there is also the issue of security: not sure I would trust some random portal website with all my financial data. But maybe I am wrong and there is such a thing from a trustworthy provider.
  • Reply 15 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    As mentioned iChat works with AOL 5.5. My Yahoo Messenger software shows support for video chat as well.



    Nick




    Yahoo Messenger on Mac has no audio, only video. And I hear the video is horrid, 1-2 fps. Seriously let's not waste time on totally unviable options like that one. Next thing, you're going to tell me I should be using Yahoo video in combination with Skype audio (and believe it or not, in my desperation for any workable solution, I *have* considered that option)....

    As for iChat's interoperability with AOL, last I heard performance is pretty dismal and reliability is not far ahead. Again let's stick to realistic solutions.
  • Reply 16 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    (...)

    seriously, there are flaws. Your points so far, however, seem to be either a case of not realizing there is a solution (videoconf with AIM 5.5), or strictly personal preference that doesn't match a lot of other people's (Office). If it truly comes down to personal preference, then there's absolutely no argument that is going to change your mind, because it's not a rational logic-based decision, it's just personal preference.





    My, what a race to conclusions! nice try buddy.

    How can bad performance be about personal preference?? Are you going to tell me that Office really has no notable performance problems to speak of? Give me a break. Now surely it has a few niceties here and there that go beyond what Windows Office has to offer (easy installation, auto-repair, Project Center, and maybe a few others)... I'll give you that. But that certainly doesn't make up in my book for other graver limitations, and in particular obviously bad performance.

    As for videoconf, see previous reply.



    Quote:



    The rest we can edumakate you on, but it's still a matter of choice in the end. Me, I can't *imagine* dealing with the vagaries of Windows on a daily basis - I just don't have the time, I have work to get done... but obviously others feel different.




    "Edumakate" me?? Pluuuuze... I really need no more edumacation than you need it... I've been around the Mac block long enough to not need any, believe me. I am looking for some healthy discussion here on what I think is a perfectly legtitimate topic, not condescension.
  • Reply 17 of 120
    flounderflounder Posts: 2,674member
    Dude, maybe people would be friendlier if you didn't come off as such a dismissive jerk.
  • Reply 18 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Flounder

    Dude, maybe people would be friendlier if you didn't come off as such a dismissive jerk.



    *sigh* I guess that's always the risk one takes when posting "sensitive" topics like this one. I am not being dismissive at all, just trying to keep the thread on a "productive" course. 8)
  • Reply 19 of 120
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cygsid

    My, what a race to conclusions! nice try buddy.



    I'm sorry, your points seemed pretty definite.



    Quote:

    How can bad performance be about personal preference?? Are you going to tell me that Office really has no notable performance problems to speak of? Give me a break. Now surely it has a few niceties here and there that go beyond what Windows Office has to offer (easy installation, auto-repair, Project Center, and maybe a few others)... I'll give you that. But that certainly doesn't make up in my book for other graver limitations, and in particular obviously bad performance.



    And yet obviously, for many other people, any perceived performance issues are overwhelmed by those features. You said it yourself: 'in my book'. It's your opinion, and your preference, that performance trumps features. Fair enough - but that's all that it is, an opinion. From the vast majority of people who I know who have used both Office versions, the Mac version is praised, while the Windows version is tolerated at best.



    I don't use either, because I can't stand either version, but all I can pass on is that the consensus by far in my experience is that the Windows version simply doesn't measure up.



    Quote:

    As for videoconf, see previous reply.



    Yeeeeeeah... you haven't actually tried these solutions that the rest of us seem to have little problems with, and dismiss them out of hand as unrealistic. Right.



    FWIW, I use iChat to videoconf with some friends a couple states over on a pretty regular basis - once they upgraded to AIM 5.5, no problems. And I'm sorry, but if you're going to say that AIM isn't widespread enough to be a viable option, you're not going to get much further response.



    No app, Mac or PC, works with every system out there. Both ends need to find a compatible paired solution. AIM has a widespread enough user base that it's quite viable. If your friends on the other end aren't willing to even entertain an option, and expect you to adapt to whatever they have, that's unrealistic. It's a two-way street.



    Quote:

    "Edumakate" me?? Pluuuuze... I really need no more edumacation than you need it... I've been around the Mac block long enough to not need any, believe me. I am looking for some healthy discussion here on what I think is a perfectly legtitimate topic, not condescension. [/B]



    *cluestick* It was meant as a lighthearted jest, not condescension. Don't be so thin skinned.



    And yes, if you don't know about solutions that *are* realistic, and work, then learning about them would be, I would *think*, appreciated. I know that if I came on here stating that I was having problems, I'd want to know about solutions. But, instead, if you're unhappy getting such information because it undercuts your assertions, then maybe you shouldn't ask? Just sayin'.



    Now, did you want actual solutions, or did you want to just keep ranting? Either way, up to you.
  • Reply 20 of 120
    cygsidcygsid Posts: 210member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    And yet obviously, for many other people, any perceived performance issues are overwhelmed by those features. You said it yourself: 'in my book'. It's your opinion, and your preference, that performance trumps features. Fair enough - but that's all that it is, an opinion. From the vast majority of people who I know who have used both Office versions, the Mac version is praised, while the Windows version is tolerated at best.

    I don't use either, because I can't stand either version, but all I can pass on is that the consensus by far in my experience is that the Windows version simply doesn't measure up.





    Fair enough. I note though that your experience with either app sounds itself pretty limited. Though I might not know other people who use Office for Mac personally, I know what I see with my own eyes, and it ain't pretty. I also note that there are plenty of reports from actual users to back me up. But as you said, maybe it's a matter of priorities: ease of use and good looks vs. performance and features. This is probably also true of the OS itself and your typical Mac app. I guess it's a question of balance, and I feel that the balance is just way too titled to the left in the case of Office.



    Quote:



    Yeeeeeeah... you haven't actually tried these solutions that the rest of us seem to have little problems with, and dismiss them out of hand as unrealistic. Right.



    FWIW, I use iChat to videoconf with some friends a couple states over on a pretty regular basis - once they upgraded to AIM 5.5, no problems. And I'm sorry, but if you're going to say that AIM isn't widespread enough to be a viable option, you're not going to get much further response.



    No app, Mac or PC, works with every system out there. Both ends need to find a compatible paired solution. AIM has a widespread enough user base that it's quite viable. If your friends on the other end aren't willing to even entertain an option, and expect you to adapt to whatever they have, that's unrealistic. It's a two-way street.





    ok.. misunderstanding here: I never said - or even meant to say - that AIM wasn't widespread (although it seems to me its spread is rather US-centric, unlike say MSN Messenger... everybody I wants to communicate with uses the latter but not the former).

    All I said is that the two, iChat and AIM, are not as interoperable as Apple or AOL would have us believe (just like Apple and Intuit would have us believe that Quicken is great Mac software), according to everything I read on the subject on the web (and I read a lot of it!). Granted that was a year to six months ago, so maybe things have changed now, though somehow I doubt it.



    Quote:



    *cluestick* It was meant as a lighthearted jest, not condescension. Don't be so thin skinned.



    And yes, if you don't know about solutions that *are* realistic, and work, then learning about them would be, I would *think*, appreciated. I know that if I came on here stating that I was having problems, I'd want to know about solutions. But, instead, if you're unhappy getting such information because it undercuts your assertions, then maybe you shouldn't ask? Just sayin'.





    You're right... my reaction did come out as a bit over the top. Sorry for the "friendly fire".
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