I'm switching to Linux/Windows

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  • Reply 41 of 157
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Splinemodel

    [B]I wasn't going to respond to you anymore, since there didn't seem to be a point, but now you're just being a jerk and I feel like I have to defend myself against your jerkdom.



    That's awesome.



    Quote:

    Of course you can believe whatever you want, but the truth is that one of the things I do is develop Linux based embedded hardware, and I do it on Linux based desktops. So imagine how foolish you sound to me.



    You develop Linux-based embedded hardware, and you're claiming that to install SuSE you need knowledge of the C programming language?



    I'm sorry but, that's just funny.



    Quote:

    I get the feeling that you're just another kid who thinks he knows something because he uses Linux on his desktop.



    I, in fact, use OS X, with Linux being a secondary OS due to its lack of Photoshop which I need for my work. Your point?



    Quote:

    This is how you sound: "Linux is the best thing ever. Everyone should use for everything because it's easier to setup, use, and the apps are free, not to mention extensible and configurable."



    If I remember correctly, you came here and started talking rubbish about needing knowledge of C to install SuSE. When I corrected you on that, instead of saying "No, you don't need it to install SuSE - you need it if you want to develop Linux apps", you continued on and on how in order to use Linux (even the easiest of them, SuSE, which you, as a "developer" have chosen to install for some reason) you need to know C. Then you modified that to knowing about Xorg config files and now you're just being down-right offensive.



    Quote:

    Clearly, if this were unequivocally true, more people would use Linux on the desktop. Guess what. . . that's not the case, and it's not because of Microsoft's evil empire.



    There are many factor why Linux isn't used by 50% of the market; user-friendlines being the last of them. Though you have kind of chosen to ignore (again) other arguments I laid down: in this case, stability, speed, wealth of free applications.



    Placebo is moving to Linux not because I convinced him to, as you want to claim indirectly, but because he has come to the conclusion that it's a viable alternative to Windows and OS X. If you want to counter that, talk to Placebo, the living proof that your theory is flawed.



    And I have to wonder why you had to scurr around in Xserver (Xorg) config files if you installed SuSE: I am pretty certain that SuSE includes non-free, proprietary nVidia or ATi drivers. And that it offers updates to them through YOU, Yast Online Update.



    I'm sure that C came in pretty handy when you edited a text file though.
  • Reply 42 of 157
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,271member
    I've been on these boards long enough to see this cycle.





    Young upstart hits the boards excited about Macs.

    Young upstart settles in after a while begins to dabble

    Young upstart wants to play games with his buddies.

    Young upstart leaves the fold



    Best of luck to you. Apple is likely overpriced because if you gaming and tinkering around your time isn't worth as much money as the person that gets say an hour of computer time a day and can't be putzing around with Linux or Gaming. Thus a Mac isn't overpriced but rather cheap because I'm not constantly fixing stuff.



    However you only live once....get your game on.
  • Reply 43 of 157
    Gene Clean:



    As far as Placebo, I don't really care what he does. I just wanted to give him a fair warning that he might get [very] frustrated. I'm not sure why you are so driven to make this into a personal vendetta, although I already mentioned my hypothesis. Right now it's clear to me that you're either thick as a brick or are just being tirelessly quarlesome, and I don't like wasting my time with these kinds of people. I'm happy to let you get the last word in, since at this point that alone seems to be the only thing you really are shooting for. Unfortunately, that means I won't be around to walk you through each sentence of mine that you quote tit-for-tat. You'll have to reference each post to the last on your own. My sincerest apologies.
  • Reply 44 of 157
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    I've been on these boards long enough to see this cycle.





    Young upstart hits the boards excited about Macs.

    Young upstart settles in after a while begins to dabble

    Young upstart wants to play games with his buddies.

    Young upstart leaves the fold



    Best of luck to you. Apple is likely overpriced because if you gaming and tinkering around your time isn't worth as much money as the person that gets say an hour of computer time a day and can't be putzing around with Linux or Gaming. Thus a Mac isn't overpriced but rather cheap because I'm not constantly fixing stuff.



    However you only live once....get your game on.




    If all you want windows for is games then buy an xBox 360, wireless controllers, and some games and grab a 50 inch RP HDTV and have a better gaming experiance for years...no $300+ GPU upgrades every 6 months just to play games.
  • Reply 45 of 157
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Splinemodel

    Gene Clean



    That's fine, and I respect your opinion of him possibly being frustrated because not everything is click-and-run (although this is debatable), but I found it odd that you told him he needs to learn the C programming language just to install SuSE.



    I understand, Linux is not for everyone - no OS is. I also understand Linux has shortcomings, even more so than Windows or OS X in some areas, but your statement(s) about C and Unix shells are, in my view, just not valid.



    I too apologize if I was a bit harsh, and you thought this was a vendetta or smth of that sort - it isn't, and I don't really care to make it one either. It's a dicussion, and as any other discussion, it can get heated sometime.
  • Reply 46 of 157
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by a_greer

    If all you want windows for is games then buy an xBox 360, wireless controllers, and some games and grab a 50 inch RP HDTV and have a better gaming experiance for years...no $300+ GPU upgrades every 6 months just to play games.



    now you're talkin'! a whoppin' huge HDTV will go obsolete far more slowly than a computer (Mac OR Windows PC) of the same cost.
  • Reply 47 of 157
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,456member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by a_greer

    If all you want windows for is games then buy an xBox 360, wireless controllers, and some games and grab a 50 inch RP HDTV and have a better gaming experiance for years...no $300+ GPU upgrades every 6 months just to play games.



    Ding, ding, ding... the man wins a prize.



    Nick
  • Reply 48 of 157
    First off, about Linux. I use Ubuntu Linux. I tried Suse 10.0 and everything was configured correctly. The only thing lacking was wireless support and that was fixed via ndiswrapper. Hell, even Windows couldn't get my screen resolution right, but Suse got it correct right off the bat. Installing things was a breeze via Yast. I even mangaged to compile my own kernel!! I don't know any programming languages (Yet), yet I managed to do all of that. So I don't know what all this talk is about you having to know C in order to set up your system correctly. Sounds like FUD to me. The main reason I left Suse, was because it was just to slow. Ubuntu is super fast and installing applications is a breeze via apt-get (CL) or Synaptic (GUI). Its infinitely customizable and IMO is the best OS in existence (even better than OS X. Prepares flame shield ). I'll admit, everything might not work off the bat, and you might have to configure somethings manually. But there is nothing wrong with this, as you become more knowledgable about the OS in the process. That said, if you want a totally n00b distro go with Suse, but if you don't mind editing a few config files then go with Ubuntu.





    Second about the console remarks. I grow tired of all the Mac people spreading FUD about how "PC gaming is dead" and telling people to get a console and such. Sure, consoles have their place and there are some fun and enjoyable games on the console, but nothing beats a mouse and keyboard, ESPECIALLY when it comes to FPS and RTS games. Can't play Unreal Tournament on a console. Can't play Star Wars: Empire at War on a console. The list of awesome games you can't play on a console spirals on.
  • Reply 49 of 157
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Protostar

    Second about the console remarks. I grow tired of all the Mac people spreading FUD about how "PC gaming is dead" and telling people to get a console and such. Sure, consoles have their place and there are some fun and enjoyable games on the console, but nothing beats a mouse and keyboard, ESPECIALLY when it comes to FPS and RTS games. Can't play Unreal Tournament on a console. Can't play Star Wars: Empire at War on a console. The list of awesome games you can't play on a console spirals on.



    Thank you, I'm also tired of people suggesting a console. I don't care how great the graphics on them get nothing beats a mouse and a keyboard so lets stop. There is a reason why gamers pay up the butt for the best PC rigs and it's ridiculous/naive to think that they are/I'm stupid for not being satisfied with a 400 dollar console. WE KNOW WHAT WE WANT.
  • Reply 50 of 157
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    PC gaming isn't dead. Far from it. It's perhaps even going to go the opposite way as the average hardware spec improves.



    I'm not switching to the PC solely for gaming. There are a lot of other things, including Windows-only apps such as 3DS Max, hardware costs and variety.



    Let's put it this way: I'm in the market for a new computer, and right now, there's neither an Intel Mac that is my class of computer, or any prospect of running Windows on a Mac.



    I'm not a dirty little attention whore who wants to be all badass by switching to PC. I'm just posting this because I was interested in hearing what people had to add, from Linux distro preference (although that sure went spectacularly ) to whether I should be doing this at all..



    I'll continue posting here for a while, I'll let you know.
  • Reply 51 of 157
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,456member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Protostar

    Second about the console remarks. I grow tired of all the Mac people spreading FUD about how "PC gaming is dead" and telling people to get a console and such. Sure, consoles have their place and there are some fun and enjoyable games on the console, but nothing beats a mouse and keyboard, ESPECIALLY when it comes to FPS and RTS games. Can't play Unreal Tournament on a console. Can't play Star Wars: Empire at War on a console. The list of awesome games you can't play on a console spirals on.



    It isn't FUD. It is fact. Depending upon the numbers you use, PC gaming fell or at a minimum held even. Meanwhile we are talking about PC game sales in the 1 billion dollar range while the console numbers are literally 10-11 times that.



    The point is you can play Unreal Tournament on a console. You can play COD2 and so forth. I prefer a mouse and keyboard as well but that doesn't mean the 13 year old sitting in front of the 50-60 inch HDTV won't be able to get by with the console controller. They easily can.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Relic

    Thank you, I'm also tired of people suggesting a console. I don't care how great the graphics on them get nothing beats a mouse and a keyboard so lets stop. There is a reason why gamers pay up the butt for the best PC rigs and it's ridiculous/naive to think that they are/I'm stupid for not being satisfied with a 400 dollar console. WE KNOW WHAT WE WANT.



    Sorry, all you are doing is showing your gaming age, no matter what your physical age happens to be. You're like the guy arguing that all true performance cars must have carburators or some such nonsense.



    Nick
  • Reply 52 of 157
    Quote:

    It isn't FUD. It is fact. Depending upon the numbers you use, PC gaming fell or at a minimum held even. Meanwhile we are talking about PC game sales in the 1 billion dollar range while the console numbers are literally 10-11 times that.



    It is FUD. The best and most quality games will ALWAYS be released on the PC as it is the easiet platform to develop for. You don't have to pay licensing fees to anyone, as it is an open platform. Like I said before, high quality titles like F.E.A.R and Far Cry will always be released on the PC first and then ported to the consoled later (if at all).



    Quote:

    The point is you can play Unreal Tournament on a console. You can play COD2 and so forth. I prefer a mouse and keyboard as well but that doesn't mean the 13 year old sitting in front of the 50-60 inch HDTV won't be able to get by with the console controller. They easily can.



    That's blasphemy. I played the Unreal Tournament PS2 port, and it blew goat dick. Visuals were horrible and the controller was equally horrible for gameplay. I don't just want to "get by". When I play a game, I want to enjoy it. And I can't enjoy a game by just "getting by". Plus I have no use for such a large television as everything on TV is trash, and not worth paying for. That money could be used to build a high end PC.
  • Reply 53 of 157
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    Sorry, all you are doing is showing your gaming age, no matter what your physical age happens to be. You're like the guy arguing that all true performance cars must have carburators or some such nonsense.



    Nick




    I must say, the keyboard and mouse is great; but the gamepad is a tradeoff I am willing to take for a 50 inch HDTV, really comfortable sofa, and 5.1 surround in place of a ~20 inch display, and computer speakers (surround or stereo) Not to mention the fact that I already spend enouch of my life in an office chair sitting upright...
  • Reply 54 of 157
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,456member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Protostar

    It is FUD. The best and most quality games will ALWAYS be released on the PC as it is the easiet platform to develop for.



    Are you high? You are seriously claiming that developing for whatever everyone has out there, including multiple processors, videocards, etc. Is easier that developing for a standardized platform.



    Quote:

    You don't have to pay licensing fees to anyone, as it is an open platform.



    Open platform? DirectX via Visual Studio and associated items are hardly open or free.



    Quote:

    . Like I said before, high quality titles like F.E.A.R and Far Cry will always be released on the PC first and then ported to the consoled later (if at all).



    You mistake a weakness for an advantage. When you are trying to gain a foothold it is easier to go verticle and jump into a smaller market to generate awareness and buzz. The PC market is the small pond where a company can still survive while only being able to swim in the wading pool. It is akin to why every new television network has nothing but teen or black television shows. You capture a niche and you can try to move on to larger and greener pastures.



    Quote:

    That's blasphemy. I played the Unreal Tournament PS2 port, and it blew goat dick.



    Yes and the hardware you played it on cost less than the videocard for your PC.



    Quote:

    Visuals were horrible and the controller was equally horrible for gameplay.



    McDonalds doesn't sell the best hamburger. They just create a consistant expectation and meet it for a reasonable price pretty much everywhere. Consoles do the same thing for games.



    Quote:

    I don't just want to "get by".



    The cost of just "getting by" is getting to large for PC gaming. You mention F.E.A.R for example. The Gamespy review notes that many machines couldn't run it at 1024x768 and their test machines had Nvidia 7800's with 2 gigs of RAM just to "get by" on it.



    Most people I know don't want to spend $500+ on a videocard just to "get by" in PC gaming.



    Quote:

    When I play a game, I want to enjoy it.



    What is enjoyable about repeatedly upgrading and dropping hundreds of dollars on hardware upgrades in order to play $50 games with $30-40 expansion packs?



    Quote:

    And I can't enjoy a game by just "getting by".



    Yeah, well enjoy living in a cardboard box with your PC.



    Quote:

    Plus I have no use for such a large television as everything on TV is trash, and not worth paying for. That money could be used to build a high end PC.



    So enjoy it on a regular television. The amount of money you demand just to get by reflects some seriously misplaced priorities.



    Nick
  • Reply 55 of 157
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,271member
    I'm always amazed that people want to "switch" in the first place. I will run both platforms simultaneously for the forseeable future. Why would I want to limit myself? I can easily build a capable PC desktop system to augment whatever Mac systems I have on hand. It's a choice I don't have to make because computers are affordable enough to have both.
  • Reply 56 of 157
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Placebo

    I'm not switching to the PC solely for gaming. There are a lot of other things, including Windows-only apps such as 3DS Max, hardware costs and variety.



    3DSMAX is JUNK. Getting to know 3D Studio Max is a waste of time, since it has a miserable rendering engine, underwhelming modeling tools, and an accordingly dwindling user-base.



    I would recommend the one-two punch of FormZ and Electric Image, but they run much better on the mac (They run better on my 3 year old Powerbook G4 than on my p4 3.4GHz with 2G). If yout can't pull those, then Cinema 4D is certainly better than 3DSMAX, and it is very much loved by its ever-growing user base. There's no reason to limit yourself to a polygon-only modeling toolset (3DSMAX, Lightwave) when the whole 3D universe is moving towards NURBS. All three of the programs I mentioned have excellent NURBs and Polygonal toolsets.
  • Reply 57 of 157
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    Well, 3DS Max is the de facto 3D modeling and animation app in the game development industry. However, I don't care about 3DS Max that much, I just want to be able to use the Unreal editor for map creation and the like.
  • Reply 58 of 157
    http://www.alias.com/





    One of the best programs out there. Maya is what you would probably want.
  • Reply 59 of 157
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Placebo

    Well, 3DS Max is the de facto 3D modeling and animation app in the game development industry.



    I find that hard to believe. The AutoCAD/3DSMAX DXF format is crappy (but perhaps venerable), and if it's a de-facto standard at all then it's good that almost every 3D app on earth can export to it.



    SoftImage used to be the "de-facto" standard for video game 3D. Then it fell off the map. I'd argue that 3DSMAX is currently falling off the map -- or has already fallen -- given its absence in higher-end 3D over the past several years. Video game 3D tend to trail production 3d by a few years, but the PS3 can do a lot with on-the-fly subdivisions and NURBS, so you'll probably want to use the latest-and-greatest since it with be the norm by the time you might be thinking about getting into that industry.





    Quote:

    Originally posted by Shadow Slayer 26

    http://www.alias.com/

    One of the best programs out there. Maya is what you would probably want.




    Maya is great for subdivisions and animation of subdivisions. But There are a lot of new subdivision-based 3D programs that are decent and a lot cheaper. Silo is a name that comes to mind.

  • Reply 60 of 157
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    I found Modo very natural for modeling, Maya kinda intimidated me and had a distracting and sprawling interface (I like modo's interface for purely aesthetic reasons if nothing else). I want to get into mapping and modeling when Unreal Tournament 2007 comes out.
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