Apple unveils Mac mini Core Duo

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Comments

  • Reply 121 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by furious_

    With price points in Australia $999 and $1299 respectively for a box this is why people buy dells in Australia, for that you get everything you need and a "faster" meaning bugger numbers Pentium 4. 3ghz and that is what poeple want big numbers.



    The Core Duo runs circles around the ageing Pentium 4.
  • Reply 122 of 781
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    We don't expect a high end or even a medium level graphics card. All we are asking for is an entry level $50 (retail) graphics card, which we would gladly pay extra for as a BTO option.



    The question there would be how much more real performance would be gotten out of this $50 graphics card?



    On charts I've seen you get 10% -20% improvement from a slightly better graphics card but you need one significantly more expensive to get significantly better performance.



    I've seen another suggestion that ATI and Nvidia maybe slow to write many new drivers for Intel based OS X. That using Intel's graphics may have allowed Apple to ship the mini faster.
  • Reply 123 of 781
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Kind of begs the question of where was the price/performance gain of switching to Intel



    Apple talked about performance per watt not price.



    From what I've been reading the Core Duo chips used in the mini retails for $210, with Apple's discount is probably around $100-$150 and is significantly more expensive than the G4.



    Quote:

    unlike the stupidity of dropping the modem on the MacBook Pro which is necessary for a mobile computer.



    I don't know about everyone else. But with WiFi, Bluetooth, and Ethernet. The modem port on my PowerBook has sat unused for three years. With such better options why would you want to use it?
  • Reply 124 of 781
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,354member
    Quote:

    I've seen another suggestion that ATI and Nvidia maybe slow to write many new drivers for Intel based OS X. That using Intel's graphics may have allowed Apple to ship the mini faster



    That's an excellent point.



    Part of the problem with graphics cards is the hype that Jobs created. We were wowed by images of Core Video and Core Image doing wonderful things. Thus Jobs created the desire and there is going to be inevitable backlash when people don't get this (yes I know Core Graphics is supported) without the "stigma" of Integrated Graphics.



    I choose to look at the mini like this and this is why I'll purchase.



    1. I wanted a fast computer.

    Check- ICS and ICD 1.6Ghz is faster than the G4 by a mile



    2. I wanted flexibility-

    Check DVI out, small size..excellent 3rd party options.



    3. I wanted robust networking-

    Check-GigE, Aiport 11G, Bluetooth 2.0.



    I wanted affordable-

    Check- $800 is pushing it I don't have to worry about many upgrades.



    In the future I'll get a MacBook Pro and the mini will get hooked up to my HDTV. I needed the Gigabit Ethernet because I plan to attach a NAS or SAN device on my network.



    My needs are different than perhaps the average person but I'm happy that most of what I need is a standard feature.
  • Reply 125 of 781
    solsunsolsun Posts: 763member
    You all are missing the reasoning behind the integrated graphics...



    Apple is obviously trying to market the mini as a media center... Using integrated video with shared memory is the only way to keep costs at $600 yet still allow the graphics engine to use as much Ram as needed for movies and HD video content...



    Movies are the next step for Apple folks.. Hi-def movies require A LOT of video RAM.. Apple is certainly not going to include a 256 mb graphics card in a Mini and still be able keep the price at $600... Integrated video with shared Ram was the solution...



    And yes, the new mini is capable of displaying core graphics..
  • Reply 126 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Quisling

    I gurantee the top of the line mini still chokes just trying to watch the HD trailers you can get off itunes.



    No way. HD is more of a processor hog than a GPU hog. I've heard that this chip has HD acceleration included, although I haven't been able to confirm that. We'll know for sure soon enough when someone tries running HD on one of these (shipping now). I'll bet it plays HD just fine, might even handle multiple streams.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by aegisdesign

    They do however leave themselves room to slot in a Celeron M 4xx model at about $100 less when Intel start shipping that chip.



    Does it use the same socket as the Core?



    Quote:

    Originally posted by bitemymac

    What's the point of having core duo with 99 cent graphic chip?



    Doing work instead of playing games.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Louzer

    Well, great point, except you can get a Tivo with a lifetime subscription for like $350-$400



    That's assuming TIVO stays in business long enough for you to break even on that. eyeTV has its own interface, have you ever used it? And you can easily add HD space to the mini with a FW or USB drive.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Thereubster

    Looks like the new Shuttle Mac mini competitor might suddenly be more attractive as well http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile/...226223550.html

    its bigger sure, but not by a lot, ATIX1400 graphics, 3.5 inch HD MCE support, seems a better option (depending on price)




    "Depending on price" is a big factor. Right now it's vaporware, and unpriced vaporware no less.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Louzer



    BTW, what's the deal with apple putting 4 USB ports on this machine, and yet there's only 3 ports total on the freakin' high-high-high end macs! That's just stupid to no end.





    The mac towers have four USB 2 ports. The keyboard also has two USB 1 ports, so you can hook up 4 USB things in addition to your mouse and keyboard.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by aegisdesign

    on a Mac that's not true. H264 is entirely done by the CPU even on cards that support H264 in hardware.



    Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that the imacs and macbooks used h264 acceleration. If they can play HD that well without help, so much the better, in the tests I've seen the Duos did better with HD than even dual G5's.
  • Reply 127 of 781
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TenoBell

    From what I've been reading the Core Duo chips used in the mini retails for $210, with Apple's discount is probably around $100-$150 and is significantly more expensive than the G4.



    Yeah I heard that they paid less for PPC.



    The myth that PPCs were more expensive was all part of the RDF. I read all about it in forbes when the intel thing was merely speculation.



    Mac users THOUGHT they were paying more for PPC, the reality is they were paying more for Apple.



    There's a damn good reason they're quashing the OSx86 project and becoming less open-source, and that reason is huge margins on the machines.
  • Reply 128 of 781
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,354member
    Quote:

    Mac users THOUGHT they were paying more for PPC, the reality is they were paying more for Apple



    True..we never really knew what the PPC chips cost Apple.
  • Reply 129 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TenoBell

    The question there would be how much more real performance would be gotten out of this $50 graphics card?



    On charts I've seen you get 10% -20% improvement from a slightly better graphics card but you need one significantly more expensive to get significantly better performance.



    I've seen another suggestion that ATI and Nvidia maybe slow to write many new drivers for Intel based OS X. That using Intel's graphics may have allowed Apple to ship the mini faster.




    Time out. Stop looking at Windows DirectX9/OpenGL charts when comparing OpenGL accelerated OS X and there in-house Graphics Drivers. The Quartz Model does work differently.



    These shouldn't even be compared. When Apple gets OpenGL 1.5 correct, not buggy, and optimized then you'll suddenly understand just how subpar this decision is, but then again this is not designed for Games. Hell when they actually update their support for OpenGL to 2.0 and optimized we might be discussing OS X 10.6.



    Btw. ATI and NVIDIA don't write the drivers. If you don't believe me then contact the Device Driver Team. Then again you might not get through to Dean Reece or any member of his team to one of them directly.
  • Reply 130 of 781
    octaneoctane Posts: 157member
    <threadjack>



    Guess we're not likely to get an Airport Express A/V now, huh?



    </threadjack>
  • Reply 131 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by solsun

    You all are missing the reasoning behind the integrated graphics...



    Apple is obviously trying to market the mini as a media center... Using integrated video with shared memory is the only way to keep costs at $600 yet still allow the graphics engine to use as much Ram as needed for movies and HD video content...



    Movies are the next step for Apple folks.. Hi-def movies require A LOT of video RAM.. Apple is certainly not going to include a 256 mb graphics card in a Mini and still be able keep the price at $600... Integrated video with shared Ram was the solution...



    And yes, the new mini is capable of displaying core graphics..




    Actually it is the only way to keep their targeted Margins.



    And Core Graphics enabled is not the same beast as Core Imaging enabled, not to mention Quartz 2D Extreme enabled.

    We all know how well Quartz 2D Extreme is working out now don't we?
  • Reply 132 of 781
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    True..we never really knew what the PPC chips cost Apple.





    haha thanks for correcting my typo, *fixed*
  • Reply 133 of 781
    my initial reaction to the mini is that it's cool, but i'll need to revamp the argument to get my parents to switch so they stop asking me to do something about importing their photos every time i visit, and so they lose the confusing way they do their email, etc.



    i could have them get the core solo since their CPU usage isn't really that intensive. but i wouldn't feel comfortable getting them just 512 b/c I know how my iMac G5 hangs sometimes, and i just want them to be wowed by the mac in every way.



    so the Solo

    with a gig ram and 125 GB drive, and a dual layer drive comes to 924





    and the Duo

    with a gig RAM and 125 GB drive, comes to 1,024



    so how i am supposed to convince my parents to switch, when they have this jet engine Dell that they think is a good computer and probably paid $500 for at those prices is a little confusing to me.



    really i wish i just had the money to buy it for them. maybe i should start one of those websites where anonymouse people give donations.
  • Reply 134 of 781
    steve666steve666 Posts: 2,600member
    Raising the price by $100-stupid

    Shared Graphics Memory with motherboard-stupid

    No modem-stupid

    Small Hard Drives-stupid



    Apple once again never fails to dissapoint me.
  • Reply 135 of 781
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by furious_

    With price points in Australia $999 and $1299 respectively for a box this is why people buy dells in Australia, for that you get everything you need and a "faster" meaning bugger numbers Pentium 4. 3ghz and that is what poeple want big numbers.



    Cheapest Dell I could find was $1074.70. It had a 2.8 GHz p4, 160GB 3.5 inch HD (free upgrade from 80GB for online orders) though and a 19" analog monitor.



    The difference doesn't look that huge to me. The mac mini is smaller.
  • Reply 136 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sharp_spot

    Done. Elgato EyeTV 200/500 turns your Mac into a DVR, and use Equinux MediaCentral (freeware) instead of Front Row.



    The downside: $5-600 for a Mac mini + $3-350 for the EyeTV.



    The upside: no monthly fee (a la Tivo), also puts Mac OS X in your living room.




    I was thinking about this. What if Apple's going to try to promote TV shows of iTunes. Maybe some kind of subscription model (like how cable TV service is now) through iTunes (I think they should change the name to iMedia now since it's not just music).



    I would be down for a _small_ montly fee for unlimited viewing of shows from iTunes (bump up the res though for greater than iPod viewing). Throw in timeshifting to the viewing and I'd take it over TiVo.
  • Reply 137 of 781
    smalmsmalm Posts: 675member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    2 memory slots- Finally you can upgrade the memory without removing the orginal memory.



    Better look again at Apple's site.

    The SODIMMs come always in pairs. And you do not want to change that because the GMA950 needs the bandwidth (10600 MB/s in a Mini!)...
  • Reply 138 of 781
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by octane

    <threadjack>



    Guess we're not likely to get an Airport Express A/V now, huh?



    </threadjack>




    it'd probably undercut most of the use for the mac mini
  • Reply 139 of 781
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    There's a damn good reason they're quashing the OSx86 project and becoming less open-source, and that reason is huge margins on the machines.



    OS X was never an open source project. It is and has always been proprietary intellectual property.



    Apple is a multibillion dollar publicly traded company that has an obligation to make its share holders money.



    Quote:

    Time out. Stop looking at Windows DirectX9/OpenGL charts when comparing OpenGL accelerated OS X and there in-house Graphics Drivers.



    Sooooo.....are you saying if Apple was ever able to get Open GL right then a $50 graphics card will offer significant performance over an integrated graphics card?



    If not then I have no idea what you are saying.
  • Reply 140 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Robin Hood

    The Core Duo runs circles around the ageing Pentium 4.





    but how many dell uses would no that?



    poeple think 3ghz for $999 or 1.6ghz for the same money. they will go with the 3ghz
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