How great would it be if Apple partnered with Tivo and optionally bundled Tivo software into FrontRow
Just an idea... With a market cap for TIVO of less than 500 million versus Apple's market cap of nearly 60 billion and nearly 9 billion cash... Think about how easy it would be for Apple to BUY TIVO outright.
Or they could compete against them and perhaps charge a monthly fee of $5 if they come out with a DVR Mini.
I can't believe all this fuss over the graphics capabilities. Do you really think that Joe Public, in the market for a cheap PC, cares a jot about integrated graphics versus a graphics card?
No. But, otoh, I don't think Joe will consider it to be a cheap pc either. No monitor, KB or mouse and $800? Not even close to cheap.
Steve pretty much said yesterday, "Yes, the new Mac mini has EVERYTHING you'd want to make it your own media center," just not in so many words. He even said, "and of course you can hook it up to a TV," or something close. He knows people have been looking at the mini as a media center. He's built it in such a way that it can be used as such. He's NOT going to build in an Apple-created product to make it a DVR because, as has been mentioned, it'd just be too expensive. He's quietly letting people spend $349 on Elgato's product if that's what they want out of their mini.
My point is that getting rid of the mini -- as a computer -- would be a terrible idea and alienate all the switchers. Creating an Apple-branded DVR/media center would be a terrible idea because they likely would be expensive and not sell well. Apple's found the best medium. Buy their computer if you want a computer. Buy their computer AND a third-party product if you want a DVR. Done.
By the way, for those of you who are whining that a TiVo is so much cheaper and that a mini+EyeTV would be near $1000 dollars, look at the feature differences between the two and look at the price comparison between a Windows Media Center PC and a min+EyeTV.
No. But, otoh, I don't think Joe will consider it to be a cheap pc either. No monitor, KB or mouse and $800? Not even close to cheap.
How convenient to "forget" the $599 model. We call this a "lie by omission" .
And why do people keep tossing in a monitor along with mouse and KB? PCs that are sold with monitors are bundled. The typical PC configuration is "Monitor Sold seperately"
The level of blatant misinformation rivals politics from some of you.
Apple buying TiVo would be the best solution. They could merge the TiVo and Front Row interfaces together and have it stream content wired or wireless to any Mac in your house or vice versa. The 3rd generation units have two analog and two digital tuners plus CableCARD 2.0 support. Apple could have a true digital hub.
I have a DVR. You're going to have to do VERY good here.
So do I...and I have done the math for myself only. I'll operate under the assumption that there are some others like me.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
While I don't want to trivialize your needs the vast majority of people watch more than 3 shows.
Perhaps. But near the end of my post...I suggested that even 4-5 million would be good market for Apple in this. That is only like 4-5% of the TV households.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
With my DVR it manages scheduling conflicts by giving me two tuners.
Understood. But the 2-tuner DVRs out there are a very small minority...and this is a bit of a "hack" frankly.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
The recorded content is cool and I love it but the magic comes from how it deals with interruptions. You know that errant phone call or emergency that happens. When you first get a DVR you forget that you can pause the show and do what needs immediate attention. It's also allows you to go BACK a certain amount of minutes so you can replay what someone has missed if they come late.
Why wouldn't you be able to do this with TV shows/movies downloaded from iTMS?
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Couple this with a way to navigate your cable/satellite options and record only what you truly want to watch and it becomes clear that you are getting your monies worth without a DVR managing your programming.
But you are missing the point. The DVR is about "managing the programming"...but where Apple seems to be going is to skip that step altogether and just say "What do you want? OK, here it is." Screw scheduling conflicts, navigating schedules, etc. Just take (well, and pay for) what you want.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
but if Apple thinks they can bypass the DVR revolution then they are in for a RUDE awakening.
Well, frankly the "DVR revolution" currently consists of one un-profitable company (who is likely to be out of business in 2-3 years) and a bunch of cable operators providing a commodity solution to navigate their content "database".
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
They literally do not stand a chance at success beyond maybe breaking a bit above even.
I disagree.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
No one I know with a DVR EVER wants to go back to TV the way it was before.
I agree. I'm not suggesting at all that is where Apple is going. In fact, I think what Apple is going for is the next logical step beyond the DVR.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Apple hasn't improved anything but Access with downloads whilst in comparison DVRs change the way you manage and watch your media. No contest
I disagree.
While Apple is (currently) completely inadequate in terms of the amount of content available...that is only a matter of time. I think the issue of "managing" your content would change in their scenario.
How convenient to "forget" the $599 model. We call this a "lie by omission" .
I chose the higher priced version because it emphasizes my point better. But just for you, I'll rephrase: No. But, otoh, I don't think Joe will consider it to be a cheap pc either. No monitor, KB or mouse and $600? Not even close to cheap.
Really, there's no need to call someone a liar.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
And why do people keep tossing in a monitor along with mouse and KB?
Because if you don't already have them they add significantly to the cost?
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
PCs that are sold with monitors are bundled. The typical PC configuration is "Monitor Sold seperately"
A quick trip to the low end section of Dell's and HP's sites revealed that every single offering was bundled with a monitor. I believe that is far more often the case - especially at the low end - than not.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
The level of blatant misinformation rivals politics from some of you.
I don't think that anyone has a really good handle on what Apple is planning to do.
The problem with these media events is that they leave people thinking that Apple will intro more than they might.
If Apple intro'd the Mini during MacWorld, but not the iMac or MacBook Pro, it would have been a big deal.
But now, it's expected. so, it's not a big deal.
The only thing I was disappointed about with it is that Apple didn't include their new video connector, UDI. It seemed to me, when it was first announced, that this would be perfect for the Mini, and any other small device that would output hi-def with HDCP. This is a very small connector. It could have gone in instead of the DVI/VGA connector.I thought that this was Apple's reasoning?to put into the Mini. An adapter could have been supplied for the more conventional outputs, for the time being, as it's compatable with them?including HDMI.
The DVR is about "managing the programming"...but where Apple seems to be going is to skip that step altogether and just say "What do you want? OK, here it is."
In glorious 320x240 quality no less. Even if they increase this in the future they can only provide the most popular programs. With a DVR you can record whatever you want. At this moment there are a couple hundred programs airing right now on my digital cable lineup. Multiply that by about 20 and you have at about 4,000 programs a day and I don't even get all the channels. That's just where I live. Can Apple offer a selection like that? No way.
I still can't find 90% of the music I want on iTMS.
In glorious 320x240 quality no less. Even if they increase this in the future they can only provide the most popular programs. With a DVR you can record whatever you want. At this moment there are a couple hundred programs airing right now on my digital cable lineup. Multiply that by about 20 and you have at about 4,000 programs a day and I don't even get all the channels. That's just where I live. Can Apple offer a selection like that? No way.
I still can't find 90% of the music I want on iTMS.
I'm trying to figure why it is so utterly impossible for some people to see the future in this.
All I see is "no way" and "no contest" or "impossible".
In glorious 320x240 quality no less. Even if they increase this in the future they can only provide the most popular programs. With a DVR you can record whatever you want. At this moment there are a couple hundred programs airing right now on my digital cable lineup. Multiply that by about 20 and you have at about 4,000 programs a day and I don't even get all the channels. That's just where I live. Can Apple offer a selection like that? No way.
I still can't find 90% of the music I want on iTMS.
Thank you!
Not to mention, are we supposed to pay for the same programming twice? I'm alreading paying for direct tv/cable. Are you suggesting that the day will come where Apple will provide enough programming that I can cancel my tv services?
Comments
Originally posted by fabsgwu
How great would it be if Apple partnered with Tivo and optionally bundled Tivo software into FrontRow
Tivo's a cheap company valued at less than 500 Million. Apple should have just bought them and gained access to their patent portfolio.
Originally posted by fabsgwu
How great would it be if Apple partnered with Tivo and optionally bundled Tivo software into FrontRow
Just an idea... With a market cap for TIVO of less than 500 million versus Apple's market cap of nearly 60 billion and nearly 9 billion cash... Think about how easy it would be for Apple to BUY TIVO outright.
Or they could compete against them and perhaps charge a monthly fee of $5 if they come out with a DVR Mini.
Originally posted by Tommo_UK
I can't believe all this fuss over the graphics capabilities. Do you really think that Joe Public, in the market for a cheap PC, cares a jot about integrated graphics versus a graphics card?
No. But, otoh, I don't think Joe will consider it to be a cheap pc either. No monitor, KB or mouse and $800? Not even close to cheap.
Or, WOZ
and have change left over for a new gulfstream
My point is that getting rid of the mini -- as a computer -- would be a terrible idea and alienate all the switchers. Creating an Apple-branded DVR/media center would be a terrible idea because they likely would be expensive and not sell well. Apple's found the best medium. Buy their computer if you want a computer. Buy their computer AND a third-party product if you want a DVR. Done.
By the way, for those of you who are whining that a TiVo is so much cheaper and that a mini+EyeTV would be near $1000 dollars, look at the feature differences between the two and look at the price comparison between a Windows Media Center PC and a min+EyeTV.
Originally posted by jouster
No. But, otoh, I don't think Joe will consider it to be a cheap pc either. No monitor, KB or mouse and $800? Not even close to cheap.
How convenient to "forget" the $599 model. We call this a "lie by omission" .
And why do people keep tossing in a monitor along with mouse and KB? PCs that are sold with monitors are bundled. The typical PC configuration is "Monitor Sold seperately"
The level of blatant misinformation rivals politics from some of you.
Originally posted by Zenga
please please please!
why don't we ask dvorak!
I keep forgetting that Apple is ditching Mac OS X for Windows soon so I guess we'll have our Media Center after all.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I have a DVR. You're going to have to do VERY good here.
So do I...and I have done the math for myself only. I'll operate under the assumption that there are some others like me.
Originally posted by hmurchison
While I don't want to trivialize your needs the vast majority of people watch more than 3 shows.
Perhaps. But near the end of my post...I suggested that even 4-5 million would be good market for Apple in this. That is only like 4-5% of the TV households.
Originally posted by hmurchison
With my DVR it manages scheduling conflicts by giving me two tuners.
Understood. But the 2-tuner DVRs out there are a very small minority...and this is a bit of a "hack" frankly.
Originally posted by hmurchison
The recorded content is cool and I love it but the magic comes from how it deals with interruptions. You know that errant phone call or emergency that happens. When you first get a DVR you forget that you can pause the show and do what needs immediate attention. It's also allows you to go BACK a certain amount of minutes so you can replay what someone has missed if they come late.
Why wouldn't you be able to do this with TV shows/movies downloaded from iTMS?
Originally posted by hmurchison
Couple this with a way to navigate your cable/satellite options and record only what you truly want to watch and it becomes clear that you are getting your monies worth without a DVR managing your programming.
But you are missing the point. The DVR is about "managing the programming"...but where Apple seems to be going is to skip that step altogether and just say "What do you want? OK, here it is." Screw scheduling conflicts, navigating schedules, etc. Just take (well, and pay for) what you want.
Originally posted by hmurchison
but if Apple thinks they can bypass the DVR revolution then they are in for a RUDE awakening.
Well, frankly the "DVR revolution" currently consists of one un-profitable company (who is likely to be out of business in 2-3 years) and a bunch of cable operators providing a commodity solution to navigate their content "database".
Originally posted by hmurchison
They literally do not stand a chance at success beyond maybe breaking a bit above even.
I disagree.
Originally posted by hmurchison
No one I know with a DVR EVER wants to go back to TV the way it was before.
I agree. I'm not suggesting at all that is where Apple is going. In fact, I think what Apple is going for is the next logical step beyond the DVR.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Apple hasn't improved anything but Access with downloads whilst in comparison DVRs change the way you manage and watch your media. No contest
I disagree.
While Apple is (currently) completely inadequate in terms of the amount of content available...that is only a matter of time. I think the issue of "managing" your content would change in their scenario.
Originally posted by hmurchison
How convenient to "forget" the $599 model. We call this a "lie by omission" .
I chose the higher priced version because it emphasizes my point better. But just for you, I'll rephrase: No. But, otoh, I don't think Joe will consider it to be a cheap pc either. No monitor, KB or mouse and $600? Not even close to cheap.
Really, there's no need to call someone a liar.
Originally posted by hmurchison
And why do people keep tossing in a monitor along with mouse and KB?
Because if you don't already have them they add significantly to the cost?
Originally posted by hmurchison
PCs that are sold with monitors are bundled. The typical PC configuration is "Monitor Sold seperately"
A quick trip to the low end section of Dell's and HP's sites revealed that every single offering was bundled with a monitor. I believe that is far more often the case - especially at the low end - than not.
Originally posted by hmurchison
The level of blatant misinformation rivals politics from some of you.
Edit: formatting
The problem with these media events is that they leave people thinking that Apple will intro more than they might.
If Apple intro'd the Mini during MacWorld, but not the iMac or MacBook Pro, it would have been a big deal.
But now, it's expected. so, it's not a big deal.
The only thing I was disappointed about with it is that Apple didn't include their new video connector, UDI. It seemed to me, when it was first announced, that this would be perfect for the Mini, and any other small device that would output hi-def with HDCP. This is a very small connector. It could have gone in instead of the DVI/VGA connector.I thought that this was Apple's reasoning?to put into the Mini. An adapter could have been supplied for the more conventional outputs, for the time being, as it's compatable with them?including HDMI.
http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showA...leID=175007096
This would have given Apple an incredible leg-up over all other companies in this space. an example of why that would be so is here (notice the date):
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=698
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
The DVR is about "managing the programming"...but where Apple seems to be going is to skip that step altogether and just say "What do you want? OK, here it is."
In glorious 320x240 quality no less. Even if they increase this in the future they can only provide the most popular programs. With a DVR you can record whatever you want. At this moment there are a couple hundred programs airing right now on my digital cable lineup. Multiply that by about 20 and you have at about 4,000 programs a day and I don't even get all the channels. That's just where I live. Can Apple offer a selection like that? No way.
I still can't find 90% of the music I want on iTMS.
Originally posted by melgross
The problem with these media events is that they leave people thinking that Apple will intro more than they might.
Maybe they shouldn't hold special events for small potatoes then. A press release would have sufficed for all this.
Originally posted by 1984
In glorious 320x240 quality no less. Even if they increase this in the future they can only provide the most popular programs. With a DVR you can record whatever you want. At this moment there are a couple hundred programs airing right now on my digital cable lineup. Multiply that by about 20 and you have at about 4,000 programs a day and I don't even get all the channels. That's just where I live. Can Apple offer a selection like that? No way.
I still can't find 90% of the music I want on iTMS.
I'm trying to figure why it is so utterly impossible for some people to see the future in this.
All I see is "no way" and "no contest" or "impossible".
Strange.
Originally posted by 1984
Maybe they shouldn't hold special events for small potatoes then. A press release would have sufficed for all this.
Except that they brilliantly got a bunch of people talking about it moreso that a press release might have done.
Originally posted by hmurchison
And why do people keep tossing in a monitor along with mouse and KB?
Originally posted by jouster
Because if you don't already have them they add significantly to the cost?
Significantly? Really? I mean "significantly" add to the cost? I mean...seriously...that was a joke right?
Originally posted by 1984
In glorious 320x240 quality no less. Even if they increase this in the future they can only provide the most popular programs. With a DVR you can record whatever you want. At this moment there are a couple hundred programs airing right now on my digital cable lineup. Multiply that by about 20 and you have at about 4,000 programs a day and I don't even get all the channels. That's just where I live. Can Apple offer a selection like that? No way.
I still can't find 90% of the music I want on iTMS.
Thank you!
Not to mention, are we supposed to pay for the same programming twice? I'm alreading paying for direct tv/cable. Are you suggesting that the day will come where Apple will provide enough programming that I can cancel my tv services?
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Except that they brilliantly got a bunch of people talking about it moreso that a press release might have done.
I guess, if you consider bad publicity better than no publicity.
Originally posted by wilco
I guess, if you consider bad publicity better than no publicity.
So far all I have read (well...umm...err...except the whining here at AI by people that expected way too much) has been positive to neutral.