Whatever the processor specs or form factor, the new iBook/MacBook needs to have analog digital audio in and out, monitor spanning, and DVI out STANDARD...the time has come.
If it were painfully realistic, you wouldn't have listed high-density displays. Don't get your hopes up.
That's merely the display that both Appleinsider and Think Secret have reported it will have (give or take on the exact resolution). Are you implying that they'll continue to use the low-resolution displays they do now, or that the new displays simply won't be a 1280 pixel varient?
The death of 1024x768 at Apple is long, long, long overdue. It's absolutely mind-numbingly absurd that you currently have to spend $1,999 to get an Apple laptop that has a screen resolution higher than 1024x768. Every other computer manufacturer is offering something in the 1280 pixel range for $999 or less, most of them even being 14" or 15" screens. The only notebooks other than Apple's that still use 1024x768 are Ultra-portables, which Apple does not make.
The death of 1024x768 at Apple is long, long, long overdue... Every other computer manufacturer is offering something in the 1280 pixel range for $999 or less, most of them even being 14" or 15" screens.
I agree, but 13.3" widescreens are still expensive, and 12" and 14" are widely used in PC notebooks.
Using the Mac minis prices and specs, I'll suggest the following line-up (changes in bold):
$999 MacBook (plastic enclosure)
1.5/1.67Ghz Intel Core Solo (coming april with Intel's price cuts...)
Sounds great but do you think they can offer a MBP with those specs at that price? That's basically $500 less than the computer they were just selling for $2000.
Why on earth will someone ever buy a slightly faster 15" MBP for a whopping $700 more?
Quote:
$1,499 MacBook Pro (aluminium enclosure)
1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo
13" Widescreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Sounds great but do you think they can offer a MBP with those specs at that price? That's basically $500 less than the computer they were just selling for $2000.
No, I don't think so.
If a small formfactor aluminium 13" MBP will be introduced it will be more expensive and faster to distinguish it more from the iBook.
-1.83Ghz core duo
-$1.699
I'll be surprised if Apple manages to deliver an iBook with whatever screen for $999 or less.
I agree, but 13.3" widescreens are still expensive, and 12" and 14" are widely used in PC notebooks.
12" is fine by me; it just has to be a 1280 pixel resolution variant. I just assume the 13.3" widescreen is a given since both Think Secret and Appleinsider agree on it.
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
Sounds great but do you think they can offer a MBP with those specs at that price? That's basically $500 less than the computer they were just selling for $2000.
The specs and pricing he listed seems very reasonable. It's today's 12" PowerBook with a 1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo, 13" screen, and better graphics card. As Voch pointed out to me however, the graphics card for the $1499 model will probably be something less than what the $1,999 model carries; like an ATI X1300 with 64MB instead of an ATI X1600 with 128MB. I don't foresee a Core Duo in a $1,299 model, however. At least not if the iBook replacements are announced in March/April.
12" is fine by me; it just has to be a 1280 pixel resolution variant. I just assume the 13.3" widescreen is a given since both Think Secret and Appleinsider agree on it.
The specs and pricing he listed seems very reasonable. It's today's 12" PowerBook with a 1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo, 13" screen, and better graphics card. As Voch pointed out to me however, the graphics card for the $1499 model will probably be something less than what the $1,999 model carries; like an ATI X1300 with 64MB instead of an ATI X1600 with 128MB. I don't foresee a Core Duo in a $1,299 model, however. At least not if the iBook replacements are announced in March/April.
I can see a core duo in a 1299 ibook but it would have to have intel IG IMO. That's more likely than a $1500 MBP with essentially the same specs as todays $2000 MBP. The only difference is 170ghz and 2in of screen space.
I can see a core duo in a 1299 ibook but it would have to have intel IG IMO.
Agreed. There's a Core Duo mini so I think a Core Duo non-pro MacBook is doable for $1299. I'd rather have that with integrated graphics than a Core Solo with a dedicated GPU (for what I do anyway).
I can see a core duo in a 1299 ibook but it would have to have intel IG IMO. That's more likely than a $1500 MBP with essentially the same specs as todays $2000 MBP. The only difference is 170ghz and 2in of screen space.
If you think that the specs for the $1,499 and current $1,999 model are too similar, look at the 12" PowerBook G4 and the 15" PowerBook G4 Apple was selling side by side until the 15" MacBook Pro announcement:
12"PowerBook G4 $1,499
12.1-inch TFT Display with 1024x768 resolution
1.5GHz PowerPC G4
512MB memory (DDR PC2700 SDRAM)
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive
Slot-load 8x SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 graphics card with 64MB DDR memory
Full size keyboard
15" PowerBook G4 $1,999
15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
1.67Ghz PowerPC G4
667MHz frontside bus
512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (AGP 4X) with 128 MB of DDR SDRAM.
The differences were 3" of screen (and resolution), 167Mhz, and graphics card. Additionally, the 15" carried PCMIA and an illuminated keyboard while the 12" does not. Note that with a $1,499 MacBook Pro with a 1.67Ghz Core Duo processor, you'd be looking at an increase of 160Mhz per core for your extra $500.
If you think that the specs for the $1,499 and current $1,999 model are too similar, look at the 12" PowerBook G4 and the 15" PowerBook G4 Apple was selling side by side until the 15" MacBook Pro announcement:
12"PowerBook G4 $1,499
12.1-inch TFT Display with 1024x768 resolution
1.5GHz PowerPC G4
512MB memory (DDR PC2700 SDRAM)
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive
Slot-load 8x SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 graphics card with 64MB DDR memory
Full size keyboard
15" PowerBook G4 $1,999
15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
1.67Ghz PowerPC G4
667MHz frontside bus
512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (AGP 4X) with 128 MB of DDR SDRAM.
The differences were 3" of screen (and resolution), 167Mhz, and graphics card. Additionally, the 15" carried PCMIA and an illuminated keyboard while the 12" does not. Note that with a $1,499 MacBook Pro with a 1.67Ghz Core Duo processor, you'd be looking at an increase of 160Mhz per core for your extra $500.
You think Apple wants the consumer and pro lines that close moving forward? I think the situation you just outlined is ONE of the reasons Apple switched to intel, to be able to develope product lines with different features and specs. Don't get me wrong, I hope your right. I'll buy the $1500 MBP as fast as I can. I'm just not holding my breath waiting.
You think Apple wants the consumer and pro lines that close moving forward? I think the situation you just outlined is ONE of the reasons Apple switched to intel, to be able to develope product lines with different features and specs. Don't get me wrong, I hope your right. I'll buy the $1500 MBP as fast as I can. I'm just not holding my breath waiting.
I'm confused. Earlier you said you could see a Core Duo in a $1,299 iBook - which I think it highly unlikely at this time - but now you suggest that the specs outlined for a $1499 MacBook Pro are too similar to the $1999 MacBook Pro. Let's break it down. Assuming that Apple won't downgrade any of the features currently offered by them in their $999-$1,499 laptop range, we can deduct that the following features are a shoe-in:
$999 must give you:
512MB RAM
40GB hard drive
Combo Drive
Airport+Bluetooth
$1299 must give you:
512MB RAM
60GB hard drive
Superdrive
Airport+Bluetooth
$1499 must give you:
512MB RAM
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive
Superdrive
Airport+Bluetooth
a graphics card at least competent enough to support Motion
Now, lets presume the rumors of the iBook getting a 13.3" display at 1280x760 are true, since both Appleinsider and Think Secret agree on that point. If a $999 or even just the $1299 iBook has a 13.3" screen, then a $1,499 model must have the equivalent, or greater. So, what elements do we have left to work with to make a range of models from $999 to $1499? Processors and Graphics. We've got three laptops to make and three chips to choose from: 1.5Ghz Core Solo, 1.66Ghz Core Solo, and 1.67Ghz Core Duo. That's all the chips available below what the $1,999 MacBook Pro is using. But the Duo chip alone isn't enough to make a $200 difference; the only other thing we can add to the $1,499 model to make it better than the $999-$1299 models but lesser than the $1999 model is a dedicated graphics card that's sub Radeon X1600 128MB quality, but better than Intel Integrated Graphics quality.
Put it this way. If the $1,499 model doesn't have a 1.67Ghz Core Duo and a dedicated graphics card, it won't be worth $1,499. And if the $1,299 MacBook has a 1.67Ghz Core Duo and a dedicated graphics card, then there won't be anything left to build a $1,499 model with. Now, all this of course goes out the window if Apple doesn't announce them prior to updating the barely-shipping $1,999 and $2,499 MacBook Pro models to better specs, but I think the features I have outlined are very safe. They're the least possible specs Apple has available, without downgrading from what they're currently selling in their PowerPC models.
I'd think Apple would keep the MacBook competitively priced, but if they are going to merge the iBook and 12" PowerBook lines, I'd expect at least one model with a decent graphics card.
Since I have a good desktop already I want a super-portable laptop system, but if it is weak sauce I'll be forced to get a 15" MacBook Pro. Perhaps that's the intention?!
I'm confused. Earlier you said you could see a Core Duo in a $1,299 iBook - which I think it highly unlikely at this time - but now you suggest that the specs outlined for a $1499 MacBook Pro are too similar to the $1999 MacBook Pro. Let's break it down. Assuming that Apple won't downgrade any of the features currently offered by them in their $999-$1,499 laptop range, we can deduct that the following features are a shoe-in:
$999 must give you:
512MB RAM
40GB hard drive
Combo Drive
Airport+Bluetooth
$1299 must give you:
512MB RAM
60GB hard drive
Superdrive
Airport+Bluetooth
$1499 must give you:
512MB RAM
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive
Superdrive
Airport+Bluetooth
a graphics card at least competent enough to support Motion
Now, lets presume the rumors of the iBook getting a 13.3" display at 1280x760 are true, since both Appleinsider and Think Secret agree on that point. If a $999 or even just the $1299 iBook has a 13.3" screen, then a $1,499 model must have the equivalent, or greater. So, what elements do we have left to work with to make a range of models from $999 to $1499? Processors and Graphics. We've got three laptops to make and three chips to choose from: 1.5Ghz Core Solo, 1.66Ghz Core Solo, and 1.67Ghz Core Duo. That's all the chips available below what the $1,999 MacBook Pro is using. But the Duo chip alone isn't enough to make a $200 difference; the only other thing we can add to the $1,499 model to make it better than the $999-$1299 models but lesser than the $1999 model is a dedicated graphics card that's sub Radeon X1600 128MB quality, but better than Intel Integrated Graphics quality.
Put it this way. If the $1,499 model doesn't have a 1.67Ghz Core Duo and a dedicated graphics card, it won't be worth $1,499. And if the $1,299 MacBook has a 1.67Ghz Core Duo and a dedicated graphics card, then there won't be anything left to build a $1,499 model with. Now, all this of course goes out the window if Apple doesn't announce them prior to updating the barely-shipping $1,999 and $2,499 MacBook Pro models to better specs, but I think the features I have outlined are very safe. They're the least possible specs Apple has available, without downgrading from what they're currently selling in their PowerPC models.
I CAN see an iBook with a core duo coming in at 1299. I think at that price it is likely to have intel IG. This is how I expect Apple to separate the consumer and pro lines, the iMac notwithstanding. IF, and thats a fairly big if, they decide to come in with 13 in MBP to replace the 12in PB I would expect ift to cost $1799 with the specs you outline. I think you need to be careful drawing expectations about the new models based on the old portable line-up. The G4 chips were dirt cheap and that makes it tough going forward to keep those same prices in the new models. Add to that the need for product separation in order to justify the prices. I.E. the more expensive MBP line should have addional features to jusify the higher cost compared to the ibook line . Just my 2 cents.
I CAN see an iBook with a core duo coming in at 1299
If they do that, and the current $1999 MacBook Pro remains unchanged, I don't see enough other components left to build something between $1299 and $1999. That's a big hole to leave open, and $1999 is a steep entry price if you want an Apple laptop that actually has a graphics card.
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
I think at that price it is likely to have intel IG. This is how I expect Apple to separate the consumer and pro lines, the iMac notwithstanding.
Most definitely. Anyone who expects a dedicated Graphics Card in Apple's $999 - $1299 laptops now is just kidding themselves.
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
IF, and thats a fairly big if, they decide to come in with 13 in MBP to replace the 12in PB I would expect ift to cost $1799 with the specs you outline.
If they put a Core Duo in the $1,299 as you expect, then how is a 13" screen and the inclusion of a graphics card going to be enough to justify a $500 premium?
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
I think you need to be careful drawing expectations about the new models based on the old portable line-up. The G4 chips were dirt cheap and that makes it tough going forward to keep those same prices in the new models.
While I would not be surprised to see Apple increase their sub-$2000 laptops each by $100 (if they getter higher resolution displays), I certainly don't expect them to degrade any of the basic components like RAM, Hard Drives, disc drives, and wireless connectivity. Note that the iBook has not seen an update in 7 months, and the 12" PowerBook hasn't been updated in 13 months! Apple should have more wiggle room for improvements in their $999-$1499 laptop lines than any of their other products or price points.
But, on the other hand, the consumer based iMac which is more what the current iBook aligns with has a dedicated GPU. My guess is that they'll have one in the higher end MacBook model.
Gotta agree with Dan on this...
Mac mini = 'built in graphics'
iMac = GPU
MacBook = GPU
I'd hope so anyway... It's one thing to play fast-n-loose with the mini specs but the 'iBook' is a much bigger seller and it'll bite them in the ass if they screw up the specs on that.
That's merely the display that both Appleinsider and Think Secret have reported it will have (give or take on the exact resolution). Are you implying that they'll continue to use the low-resolution displays they do now, or that the new displays simply won't be a 1280 pixel varient?
The death of 1024x768 at Apple is long, long, long overdue. It's absolutely mind-numbingly absurd that you currently have to spend $1,999 to get an Apple laptop that has a screen resolution higher than 1024x768. Every other computer manufacturer is offering something in the 1280 pixel range for $999 or less, most of them even being 14" or 15" screens. The only notebooks other than Apple's that still use 1024x768 are Ultra-portables, which Apple does not make.
Since when did the iBook run parallel with the mac mini?
iBook = portable iMac
MacBook Pro = portable PowerMac
So hopefully the iBook won't get integrated graphics. I doubt it will get the X1600, so perhaps the X1300, which is still a pretty good card for an iBook grade machine.
If they put a Core Duo in the $1,299 as you expect, then how is a 13" screen and the inclusion of a graphics card going to be enough to justify a $500 premium?
/B]
Your point is well taken. Time will tell. I still think that you're going to see more separation, in price and in features, between the ibook and MBP lines.
edit: Went to anantech and checked out prices for ATI x1600 gpu. The one listed with 256k of memory is $370. I don't know how much apple pays for the cards with 128k of memory.FWIW link below.
I'd hope so anyway... It's one thing to play fast-n-loose with the mini specs but the 'iBook' is a much bigger seller and it'll bite them in the ass if they screw up the specs on that.
Dave
I hope you're right.
Still
I think people should concider prices will be higher than expected.
Ad at least $100 - $200 to your expectations.
Anyway I hope for a 13" MacBook Pro with the same specs as the $1.999 15" MacBook Pro version. (maybe without the ExpressCard/34 slot) If it will be more expensive than $1.799, I buy a 15 incher
The iBook/Macbook will have integrated graphics. The Mac mini wasn't a fluke. PC laptops will often use IG all the way up to $1499 and beyond in some cases.
Comments
Originally posted by >_>
If it were painfully realistic, you wouldn't have listed high-density displays. Don't get your hopes up.
That's merely the display that both Appleinsider and Think Secret have reported it will have (give or take on the exact resolution). Are you implying that they'll continue to use the low-resolution displays they do now, or that the new displays simply won't be a 1280 pixel varient?
The death of 1024x768 at Apple is long, long, long overdue. It's absolutely mind-numbingly absurd that you currently have to spend $1,999 to get an Apple laptop that has a screen resolution higher than 1024x768. Every other computer manufacturer is offering something in the 1280 pixel range for $999 or less, most of them even being 14" or 15" screens. The only notebooks other than Apple's that still use 1024x768 are Ultra-portables, which Apple does not make.
Originally posted by Cory Bauer
The death of 1024x768 at Apple is long, long, long overdue... Every other computer manufacturer is offering something in the 1280 pixel range for $999 or less, most of them even being 14" or 15" screens.
I agree, but 13.3" widescreens are still expensive, and 12" and 14" are widely used in PC notebooks.
Using the Mac minis prices and specs, I'll suggest the following line-up (changes in bold):
$999 MacBook (plastic enclosure)
1.5/1.67Ghz Intel Core Solo (coming april with Intel's price cuts...)
12" Widescreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
60GB Serial ATA hard drive
Intel GMA950 graphics processor
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote
$1,299 MacBook (plastic enclosure)
1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo
14" Widescreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
Intel GMA950 graphics processor
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote
$1,499 MacBook Pro (aluminium enclosure)
1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo
13" Widescreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote
Originally posted by mjteix
$1,499 MacBook Pro (aluminium enclosure)
1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo
13" Widescreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote
Sounds great but do you think they can offer a MBP with those specs at that price? That's basically $500 less than the computer they were just selling for $2000.
Originally posted by mjteix
[snipperdesnip]
$1,299 MacBook (plastic enclosure)
1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo
14" Widescreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
Intel GMA950 graphics processor
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote
Why on earth will someone ever buy a slightly faster 15" MBP for a whopping $700 more?
$1,499 MacBook Pro (aluminium enclosure)
1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo
13" Widescreen display at 1280x800
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote
Originally posted by backtomac
Sounds great but do you think they can offer a MBP with those specs at that price? That's basically $500 less than the computer they were just selling for $2000.
No, I don't think so.
If a small formfactor aluminium 13" MBP will be introduced it will be more expensive and faster to distinguish it more from the iBook.
-1.83Ghz core duo
-$1.699
I'll be surprised if Apple manages to deliver an iBook with whatever screen for $999 or less.
Originally posted by mjteix
I agree, but 13.3" widescreens are still expensive, and 12" and 14" are widely used in PC notebooks.
12" is fine by me; it just has to be a 1280 pixel resolution variant. I just assume the 13.3" widescreen is a given since both Think Secret and Appleinsider agree on it.
Originally posted by backtomac
Sounds great but do you think they can offer a MBP with those specs at that price? That's basically $500 less than the computer they were just selling for $2000.
The specs and pricing he listed seems very reasonable. It's today's 12" PowerBook with a 1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo, 13" screen, and better graphics card. As Voch pointed out to me however, the graphics card for the $1499 model will probably be something less than what the $1,999 model carries; like an ATI X1300 with 64MB instead of an ATI X1600 with 128MB. I don't foresee a Core Duo in a $1,299 model, however. At least not if the iBook replacements are announced in March/April.
Originally posted by Cory Bauer
12" is fine by me; it just has to be a 1280 pixel resolution variant. I just assume the 13.3" widescreen is a given since both Think Secret and Appleinsider agree on it.
The specs and pricing he listed seems very reasonable. It's today's 12" PowerBook with a 1.66Ghz Intel Core Duo, 13" screen, and better graphics card. As Voch pointed out to me however, the graphics card for the $1499 model will probably be something less than what the $1,999 model carries; like an ATI X1300 with 64MB instead of an ATI X1600 with 128MB. I don't foresee a Core Duo in a $1,299 model, however. At least not if the iBook replacements are announced in March/April.
I can see a core duo in a 1299 ibook but it would have to have intel IG IMO. That's more likely than a $1500 MBP with essentially the same specs as todays $2000 MBP. The only difference is 170ghz and 2in of screen space.
Originally posted by backtomac
I can see a core duo in a 1299 ibook but it would have to have intel IG IMO.
Agreed. There's a Core Duo mini so I think a Core Duo non-pro MacBook is doable for $1299. I'd rather have that with integrated graphics than a Core Solo with a dedicated GPU (for what I do anyway).
Voch
Originally posted by backtomac
I can see a core duo in a 1299 ibook but it would have to have intel IG IMO. That's more likely than a $1500 MBP with essentially the same specs as todays $2000 MBP. The only difference is 170ghz and 2in of screen space.
If you think that the specs for the $1,499 and current $1,999 model are too similar, look at the 12" PowerBook G4 and the 15" PowerBook G4 Apple was selling side by side until the 15" MacBook Pro announcement:
12"PowerBook G4 $1,499
12.1-inch TFT Display with 1024x768 resolution
1.5GHz PowerPC G4
512MB memory (DDR PC2700 SDRAM)
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive
Slot-load 8x SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 graphics card with 64MB DDR memory
Full size keyboard
15" PowerBook G4 $1,999
15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
1.67Ghz PowerPC G4
667MHz frontside bus
512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (AGP 4X) with 128 MB of DDR SDRAM.
The differences were 3" of screen (and resolution), 167Mhz, and graphics card. Additionally, the 15" carried PCMIA and an illuminated keyboard while the 12" does not. Note that with a $1,499 MacBook Pro with a 1.67Ghz Core Duo processor, you'd be looking at an increase of 160Mhz per core for your extra $500.
Originally posted by Cory Bauer
If you think that the specs for the $1,499 and current $1,999 model are too similar, look at the 12" PowerBook G4 and the 15" PowerBook G4 Apple was selling side by side until the 15" MacBook Pro announcement:
12"PowerBook G4 $1,499
12.1-inch TFT Display with 1024x768 resolution
1.5GHz PowerPC G4
512MB memory (DDR PC2700 SDRAM)
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive
Slot-load 8x SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 graphics card with 64MB DDR memory
Full size keyboard
15" PowerBook G4 $1,999
15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
1.67Ghz PowerPC G4
667MHz frontside bus
512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (AGP 4X) with 128 MB of DDR SDRAM.
The differences were 3" of screen (and resolution), 167Mhz, and graphics card. Additionally, the 15" carried PCMIA and an illuminated keyboard while the 12" does not. Note that with a $1,499 MacBook Pro with a 1.67Ghz Core Duo processor, you'd be looking at an increase of 160Mhz per core for your extra $500.
You think Apple wants the consumer and pro lines that close moving forward? I think the situation you just outlined is ONE of the reasons Apple switched to intel, to be able to develope product lines with different features and specs. Don't get me wrong, I hope your right. I'll buy the $1500 MBP as fast as I can. I'm just not holding my breath waiting.
Originally posted by backtomac
You think Apple wants the consumer and pro lines that close moving forward? I think the situation you just outlined is ONE of the reasons Apple switched to intel, to be able to develope product lines with different features and specs. Don't get me wrong, I hope your right. I'll buy the $1500 MBP as fast as I can. I'm just not holding my breath waiting.
I'm confused. Earlier you said you could see a Core Duo in a $1,299 iBook - which I think it highly unlikely at this time - but now you suggest that the specs outlined for a $1499 MacBook Pro are too similar to the $1999 MacBook Pro. Let's break it down. Assuming that Apple won't downgrade any of the features currently offered by them in their $999-$1,499 laptop range, we can deduct that the following features are a shoe-in:
$999 must give you:
512MB RAM
40GB hard drive
Combo Drive
Airport+Bluetooth
$1299 must give you:
512MB RAM
60GB hard drive
Superdrive
Airport+Bluetooth
$1499 must give you:
512MB RAM
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive
Superdrive
Airport+Bluetooth
a graphics card at least competent enough to support Motion
Now, lets presume the rumors of the iBook getting a 13.3" display at 1280x760 are true, since both Appleinsider and Think Secret agree on that point. If a $999 or even just the $1299 iBook has a 13.3" screen, then a $1,499 model must have the equivalent, or greater. So, what elements do we have left to work with to make a range of models from $999 to $1499? Processors and Graphics. We've got three laptops to make and three chips to choose from: 1.5Ghz Core Solo, 1.66Ghz Core Solo, and 1.67Ghz Core Duo. That's all the chips available below what the $1,999 MacBook Pro is using. But the Duo chip alone isn't enough to make a $200 difference; the only other thing we can add to the $1,499 model to make it better than the $999-$1299 models but lesser than the $1999 model is a dedicated graphics card that's sub Radeon X1600 128MB quality, but better than Intel Integrated Graphics quality.
Put it this way. If the $1,499 model doesn't have a 1.67Ghz Core Duo and a dedicated graphics card, it won't be worth $1,499. And if the $1,299 MacBook has a 1.67Ghz Core Duo and a dedicated graphics card, then there won't be anything left to build a $1,499 model with. Now, all this of course goes out the window if Apple doesn't announce them prior to updating the barely-shipping $1,999 and $2,499 MacBook Pro models to better specs, but I think the features I have outlined are very safe. They're the least possible specs Apple has available, without downgrading from what they're currently selling in their PowerPC models.
Since I have a good desktop already I want a super-portable laptop system, but if it is weak sauce I'll be forced to get a 15" MacBook Pro. Perhaps that's the intention?!
Originally posted by Cory Bauer
I'm confused. Earlier you said you could see a Core Duo in a $1,299 iBook - which I think it highly unlikely at this time - but now you suggest that the specs outlined for a $1499 MacBook Pro are too similar to the $1999 MacBook Pro. Let's break it down. Assuming that Apple won't downgrade any of the features currently offered by them in their $999-$1,499 laptop range, we can deduct that the following features are a shoe-in:
$999 must give you:
512MB RAM
40GB hard drive
Combo Drive
Airport+Bluetooth
$1299 must give you:
512MB RAM
60GB hard drive
Superdrive
Airport+Bluetooth
$1499 must give you:
512MB RAM
80GB 5400 rpm hard drive
Superdrive
Airport+Bluetooth
a graphics card at least competent enough to support Motion
Now, lets presume the rumors of the iBook getting a 13.3" display at 1280x760 are true, since both Appleinsider and Think Secret agree on that point. If a $999 or even just the $1299 iBook has a 13.3" screen, then a $1,499 model must have the equivalent, or greater. So, what elements do we have left to work with to make a range of models from $999 to $1499? Processors and Graphics. We've got three laptops to make and three chips to choose from: 1.5Ghz Core Solo, 1.66Ghz Core Solo, and 1.67Ghz Core Duo. That's all the chips available below what the $1,999 MacBook Pro is using. But the Duo chip alone isn't enough to make a $200 difference; the only other thing we can add to the $1,499 model to make it better than the $999-$1299 models but lesser than the $1999 model is a dedicated graphics card that's sub Radeon X1600 128MB quality, but better than Intel Integrated Graphics quality.
Put it this way. If the $1,499 model doesn't have a 1.67Ghz Core Duo and a dedicated graphics card, it won't be worth $1,499. And if the $1,299 MacBook has a 1.67Ghz Core Duo and a dedicated graphics card, then there won't be anything left to build a $1,499 model with. Now, all this of course goes out the window if Apple doesn't announce them prior to updating the barely-shipping $1,999 and $2,499 MacBook Pro models to better specs, but I think the features I have outlined are very safe. They're the least possible specs Apple has available, without downgrading from what they're currently selling in their PowerPC models.
I CAN see an iBook with a core duo coming in at 1299. I think at that price it is likely to have intel IG. This is how I expect Apple to separate the consumer and pro lines, the iMac notwithstanding. IF, and thats a fairly big if, they decide to come in with 13 in MBP to replace the 12in PB I would expect ift to cost $1799 with the specs you outline. I think you need to be careful drawing expectations about the new models based on the old portable line-up. The G4 chips were dirt cheap and that makes it tough going forward to keep those same prices in the new models. Add to that the need for product separation in order to justify the prices. I.E. the more expensive MBP line should have addional features to jusify the higher cost compared to the ibook line . Just my 2 cents.
Originally posted by backtomac
I CAN see an iBook with a core duo coming in at 1299
If they do that, and the current $1999 MacBook Pro remains unchanged, I don't see enough other components left to build something between $1299 and $1999. That's a big hole to leave open, and $1999 is a steep entry price if you want an Apple laptop that actually has a graphics card.
Originally posted by backtomac
I think at that price it is likely to have intel IG. This is how I expect Apple to separate the consumer and pro lines, the iMac notwithstanding.
Most definitely. Anyone who expects a dedicated Graphics Card in Apple's $999 - $1299 laptops now is just kidding themselves.
Originally posted by backtomac
IF, and thats a fairly big if, they decide to come in with 13 in MBP to replace the 12in PB I would expect ift to cost $1799 with the specs you outline.
If they put a Core Duo in the $1,299 as you expect, then how is a 13" screen and the inclusion of a graphics card going to be enough to justify a $500 premium?
Originally posted by backtomac
I think you need to be careful drawing expectations about the new models based on the old portable line-up. The G4 chips were dirt cheap and that makes it tough going forward to keep those same prices in the new models.
While I would not be surprised to see Apple increase their sub-$2000 laptops each by $100 (if they getter higher resolution displays), I certainly don't expect them to degrade any of the basic components like RAM, Hard Drives, disc drives, and wireless connectivity. Note that the iBook has not seen an update in 7 months, and the 12" PowerBook hasn't been updated in 13 months! Apple should have more wiggle room for improvements in their $999-$1499 laptop lines than any of their other products or price points.
Originally posted by DanMacMan
But, on the other hand, the consumer based iMac which is more what the current iBook aligns with has a dedicated GPU. My guess is that they'll have one in the higher end MacBook model.
Gotta agree with Dan on this...
Mac mini = 'built in graphics'
iMac = GPU
MacBook = GPU
I'd hope so anyway... It's one thing to play fast-n-loose with the mini specs but the 'iBook' is a much bigger seller and it'll bite them in the ass if they screw up the specs on that.
Dave
Originally posted by Cory Bauer
That's merely the display that both Appleinsider and Think Secret have reported it will have (give or take on the exact resolution). Are you implying that they'll continue to use the low-resolution displays they do now, or that the new displays simply won't be a 1280 pixel varient?
The death of 1024x768 at Apple is long, long, long overdue. It's absolutely mind-numbingly absurd that you currently have to spend $1,999 to get an Apple laptop that has a screen resolution higher than 1024x768. Every other computer manufacturer is offering something in the 1280 pixel range for $999 or less, most of them even being 14" or 15" screens. The only notebooks other than Apple's that still use 1024x768 are Ultra-portables, which Apple does not make.
That's true.. TOO LONG!!!
iBook = portable iMac
MacBook Pro = portable PowerMac
So hopefully the iBook won't get integrated graphics. I doubt it will get the X1600, so perhaps the X1300, which is still a pretty good card for an iBook grade machine.
Originally posted by Cory Bauer
[B]
If they put a Core Duo in the $1,299 as you expect, then how is a 13" screen and the inclusion of a graphics card going to be enough to justify a $500 premium?
/B]
Your point is well taken. Time will tell. I still think that you're going to see more separation, in price and in features, between the ibook and MBP lines.
edit: Went to anantech and checked out prices for ATI x1600 gpu. The one listed with 256k of memory is $370. I don't know how much apple pays for the cards with 128k of memory.FWIW link below.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2632
Originally posted by DaveGee
Gotta agree with Dan on this...
Mac mini = 'built in graphics'
iMac = GPU
MacBook = GPU
I'd hope so anyway... It's one thing to play fast-n-loose with the mini specs but the 'iBook' is a much bigger seller and it'll bite them in the ass if they screw up the specs on that.
Dave
I hope you're right.
Still
I think people should concider prices will be higher than expected.
Ad at least $100 - $200 to your expectations.
Anyway I hope for a 13" MacBook Pro with the same specs as the $1.999 15" MacBook Pro version. (maybe without the ExpressCard/34 slot) If it will be more expensive than $1.799, I buy a 15 incher