Why are so many Mac users anti-gaming?

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 53
    zengazenga Posts: 267member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mac_Doll

    Sorry if this is off-topic, but I recently bought a mint condition Sega Genesis, in its original box, for $40. Now I can finally beat all those Genesis games I have; it's been 15 years!



    man... tell me aboout it! i don't know if you're into rpg's but get phantasy star iv "superb"



  • Reply 22 of 53
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,214moderator
    I've grown a bit too tired of gaming. I just use my Mac for work. I have a PS2 for those odd occasions and I don't think I'd need more than that.



    However, I still want a good graphics card in the lower end Macs, including the Mini. Graphics cards are good for more than just games. 3D & CAD software for example. It's just that requests for them often lead to people saying it's just for gaming. I think the misconception comes from the fact that games are used as universal benchmarks for a GPU performance, Quake and UT being the most popular. So when people say they want a card that can play Quake at x fps then they mean they want a card of x performance - it doesn't mean it's for games. Not that that's a bad thing of course.



    I agree with what Res said. We shouldn't have to pay over $2000 for a machine with a $100 GPU. If I want a 6600GT in a Mac Mini then I should have the choice. I'd be far more willing to pay $799 for a Mini + 6600 than $2000 for a G5 tower + 6600.



    People might say that's Apple's strategy and that it encourages people to buy more expensive options. Well no, it doesn't. It just forces me to buy an underpowered machine and be discontent or choose another manufacturer.
  • Reply 23 of 53
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Marvin

    However, I still want a good graphics card in the lower end Macs, including the Mini. Graphics cards are good for more than just games. 3D & CAD software for example.



    I think general Quartz Extreme and Core Graphics performance is a more compelling example. For one, 3D and CAD don't hit the GPU much unless you're looking at OpenGL previews. If you use ElectricImage, then yeah, it uses OpenGL for everything (and that's why it runs so well on OS X macs), but otherwise there's not much GPU usage. For two, who's going to buy a mini and want to run 3D apps on it?



    Just FYI: The iMac G5 is probably the best value for running 3D apps, since many of them aren't Intel compiled yet, many of them won't be for a while, and many of them have per-CPU licenses.
  • Reply 24 of 53
    Rise of Nations is a very fun game. more people need to try this game. it is a very fun and addicting game that is very fun to play online.



    especially now since Game Ranger has been fixed so you no longer have to forward ports if you have a router.

    there used to be some issue for many people with routers and Airports where the were unable to join online games. that has been fixed!

    Rise of Nations doesnt require a huge cpu or gpu so just about any mac can play the game very smoothly.



    try it.
  • Reply 25 of 53
    elixirelixir Posts: 782member
    i'm not against gaming in anyway but man if you aren't getting paid being a "gamer" isn't the greatest thing in the world.



    it's just not healthy, bottom line.





    i wasted countless hours on Halo 1 and 2. lord did i ever...



    its fun, hell, if u play with some friends its a good freaking time



    but you gotta learn where to draw the line.









    anyways, gaming on macs? eh? cool i guess.
  • Reply 26 of 53
    eckingecking Posts: 1,588member
    I don't hate mac gaming if that's what someone wants to do so be it.



    I just find console games better, I love fighting games and rpgs and I find both better on consoles.



    The only computer game I ever cared about were the sims games, they're relaxing an easy, macs play that fine so that's all that matters to me!



    Anyone know how sims2 plays on an intel imac or intel mini, THAT's the only thing deciding which one I buy, that and maybe hdv editing.



    Ah hell I'll probably go with the imac.
  • Reply 27 of 53
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,454member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Res

    It happens again and again -- someone mentions that they want to play games on their computer and horde of posters on this board join in on a anti-gaming rant, posting things like "PC gaming is dead" "get a console" and implying that those that don't share their views on gaming are immature misguided fools.



    This reaction only seems to happen on Mac forums, not general topic or PC forums. Why are there so many Mac users around who feel the need to spread FUD about the gaming industry and belittle people that enjoy gaming on their computers?




    I'd say it happens for a number of reasons.



    First and foremost when someone comes into a mac forum and complains about gaming they aren't talking about games in general. I can find thousands of shareware games, card games, commercial games, flash-based games, etc. I can even find dozens of FPS, RPGS, you name it.



    Their complain centers on one specific area of gaming and caters though to only one type of game typically and that is the latest and greatest first person shooter.



    If I'm mostly interested in a broad array of games, and enjoying them in mixed company, then I probably want to and already own a console. Most people feel this way and that isn't FUD. It has been reality for several years that the console market is an order of magnitude larger than the PC gaming market. You go to CompUSA and in what used to be an exclusively PC gaming section, you will see console game sells, large sceen televisions, etc. Same is true for anywhere else.



    Now as for being misguided fools, in my book they are going down that path. Gaming on a PC is like owning a true sports car. It requires more downtime than regular cars, the repairs and upkeep are more expensive, they often require constant tuning etc. All of this so you can still drive 65 on the freeway like the rest of us.



    Now you can say the rest of us... I'll find people with similar interests and we'll go play on a race track. That is all fine and well, but don't call the rest of us misguided for not following you on your expensive endeavor. Expensive hardware for gaming requires the person you play against to be willing to ante up in a similar fashion. There is a reason the most popular online game for PC is still Counterstrike. Almost no one wants to ante up $600 graphics cards to go against each other. A few do, but we don't want to listen to their complaints.



    Nick
  • Reply 28 of 53
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by a_greer

    I could make a joke here, but this is a family forum



    Windows won the gaming war because they made the platform gamer-friendly from the early days,. . .




    Windows won the gaming war (if there was ever a "war") because more people have Windows, and more people had Windows. Macs have always been ahead as far as gaming technologies. For a while in the early 90's, the mac was the dominant PC gaming platform simply because PCs were worthless for running games with high quality (for the time) graphics, sound, and CD-ROM access. The only reason why peripheral technologies were developed for the PC is pure market thinking: If you're a small startup developing a new computer technology, who do you target? I'd target the 90% vs. the 10%.
  • Reply 29 of 53
    skatmanskatman Posts: 609member
    Quote:

    Now as for being misguided fools, in my book they are going down that path. Gaming on a PC is like owning a true sports car. It requires more downtime than regular cars, the repairs and upkeep are more expensive, they often require constant tuning etc.



    Not if own Acura NSX. Performance of a sports car, reliability of an Accord! You just have to be smart about it.



    Quote:

    All of this so you can still drive 65 on the freeway like the rest of us.



    It's been a LONG TIME since I've driven 65 on a freeway...
  • Reply 30 of 53
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    First and foremost when someone comes into a mac forum and complains about gaming they aren't talking about games in general. I can find thousands of shareware games, card games, commercial games, flash-based games, etc. I can even find dozens of FPS, RPGS, you name it. Their complain centers on one specific area of gaming and caters though to only one type of game typically and that is the latest and greatest first person shooter.



    I keep a per-platform list of games I want to play someday. I keep Mac and Windows games in the same category, because there isn't even one Mac game there that is not also available for Windows. Even discounting FPS's, fully half of the games are Windows only. And of course all the Mac versions except Blizzard's have awful availability and pricing.
    Quote:

    If I'm mostly interested in a broad array of games, and enjoying them in mixed company, then I probably want to and already own a console. Most people feel this way and that isn't FUD. It has been reality for several years that the console market is an order of magnitude larger than the PC gaming market. You go to CompUSA and in what used to be an exclusively PC gaming section, you will see console game sells, large sceen televisions, etc. Same is true for anywhere else.



    No objection, this is the statistical truth.
    Quote:

    Now as for being misguided fools, in my book they are going down that path. Gaming on a PC is like owning a true sports car. It requires more downtime than regular cars, the repairs and upkeep are more expensive, they often require constant tuning etc. All of this so you can still drive 65 on the freeway like the rest of us.



    FUD. Most PC gamers buy a PC and do not tinker with it in years. You are confusing the majority with a minority that has something to prove by owning expensive hardware and which is only really visible on the Internet. Even in big LAN gaming parties you mostly see mundane computers with mundane parts.
    Quote:

    Now you can say the rest of us... I'll find people with similar interests and we'll go play on a race track. That is all fine and well, but don't call the rest of us misguided for not following you on your expensive endeavor. Expensive hardware for gaming requires the person you play against to be willing to ante up in a similar fashion. There is a reason the most popular online game for PC is still Counterstrike. Almost no one wants to ante up $600 graphics cards to go against each other. A few do, but we don't want to listen to their complaints.



    More FUD. I have friends who have been in top two clans of Europe in their respective FPS games, who played with $200-$250 graphics cards. A shiny computer doesn't make you a competetive player and is not required for it either.



    Right now, 7800GT cards are sub-$300 and one of them will run the newest games at full HD resolution at decent framerates provided your display is up for it. A competetive player (this is a small niche too - most PC players are casual ones) would turn down the resolution a notch to ensure constant, smooth gameplay.
  • Reply 31 of 53
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,454member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by skatman

    Not if own Acura NSX. Performance of a sports car, reliability of an Accord! You just have to be smart about it.





    You have to be deluded about it. $80-84k for an aluminum skinned sports car that would get blown away off the line by a stock Mustang. Note I said true sports car, not wannabe.



    Quote:

    It's been a LONG TIME since I've driven 65 on a freeway...



    Enjoy the points and insurance premiums.



    First holy jesus Gon, use quote...



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gon

    I keep a per-platform list of games I want to play someday. I keep Mac and Windows games in the same category, because there isn't even one Mac game there that is not also available for Windows. Even discounting FPS's, fully half of the games are Windows only. And of course all the Mac versions except Blizzard's have awful availability and pricing.



    This is irrelevent. The thread didn't ask which is better for gaming or has more games. It claimed Mac users are anti-gaming. Also the complaint was largely arguments that work against the type of items you post. If the criteria is game availability and pricing, simply get a PS2. You will have more games available than the PC could ever dream of and also be able to hit Gamestop, Ebay, etc. for loads of cheap games as well.



    You are showing the typical thread response. Mac users who believe that game availability AND price sensitivity are both concerns do not go get a videocard for a computer that costs $600 or even $300. I'm going to go buy an inexpensive and specific solution so I can keep more more expensive and generalized solution doing those tasks.



    Quote:

    No objection, this is the statistical truth.



    Thanks.



    Quote:

    FUD. Most PC gamers buy a PC and do not tinker with it in years. You are confusing the majority with a minority that has something to prove by owning expensive hardware and which is only really visible on the Internet. Even in big LAN gaming parties you mostly see mundane computers with mundane parts.



    Not FUD, you are simply used to a higher level of tinkering. There are plenty of games I have seen that require driver or DirectX updates. Do you think the typical computer user, regardless of how exotic or mundane the parts are has ever even updated a driver?



    Most people couldn't even tell you what videocard is in their computer.



    Mundane is what you might consider your actions, but they are still several levels above what is typical.



    Quote:

    More FUD. I have friends who have been in top two clans of Europe in their respective FPS games, who played with $200-$250 graphics cards. A shiny computer doesn't make you a competetive player and is not required for it either.



    Right now, 7800GT cards are sub-$300 and one of them will run the newest games at full HD resolution at decent framerates provided your display is up for it. A competetive player (this is a small niche too - most PC players are casual ones) would turn down the resolution a notch to ensure constant, smooth gameplay.

    Report this post to a moderator



    Again you don't even realize the dollar figures you toss around and why you toss them around. You are talking about spending half as much on a videocard, even a last generation videocard as people will spend for a full computer. Most people are buying $500 computers and $150 consoles and you talking about people managing to get by with a $250 videocard.



    Please consider for a second that you, your friends and what you are willing to get by with are still not typical. Even if you are cheap for gaming you are still willing to consider as spending as much for one component as others would for perhaps their entire system.



    Nick
  • Reply 32 of 53
    auroraaurora Posts: 1,142member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Res

    It happens again and again -- someone mentions that they want to play games on their computer and horde of posters on this board join in on a anti-gaming rant, posting things like "PC gaming is dead" "get a console" and implying that those that don't share their views on gaming are immature misguided fools.



    This reaction only seems to happen on Mac forums, not general topic or PC forums. Why are there so many Mac users around who feel the need to spread FUD about the gaming industry and belittle people that enjoy gaming on their computers?




    Apple has had such poor graphics support and such poor Gpu's in its machines for so long its become a reflex action from Macheads. Everything starts at Apple and if they dont want to listen to the consumer then F them and get something else! Its what I did after 20 yrs of Macs and the nonsense they play with their GPU's.(Alienware) Plus then add the fact that everything has to be translated to Mac means we have a lot of people who have to make up excuses for Apple's poor,poor gaming history. Consumers are gamers period.
  • Reply 33 of 53
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Aurora

    Apple has had such poor graphics support and such poor Gpu's in its machines for so long its become a reflex action from Macheads. Everything starts at Apple and if they dont want to listen to the consumer then F them and get something else! Its what I did after 20 yrs of Macs and the nonsense they play with their GPU's.(Alienware) Plus then add the fact that everything has to be translated to Mac means we have a lot of people who have to make up excuses for Apple's poor,poor gaming history. Consumers are gamers period.



    That seriously is the case; Mac users try to make PC gaming seem ridiculous simply because gaming on a Mac and not an optimal experience.



    PS, Alienwares suck.
  • Reply 34 of 53
    It is amazing how critical people can be. There are plenty of good Mac games. Just have a look: http://www.apple.com/games/.



    For those of you who have favorite Mac games, list them here .
  • Reply 35 of 53
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    First holy jesus Gon, use quote...



    Huh?
    Quote:

    This is irrelevent. The thread didn't ask which is better for gaming or has more games. It claimed Mac users are anti-gaming. Also the complaint was largely arguments that work against the type of items you post. If the criteria is game availability and pricing, simply get a PS2. You will have more games available than the PC could ever dream of and also be able to hit Gamestop, Ebay, etc. for loads of cheap games as well.



    You said it's always about first person shooters, I said that is not the case. It was a direct response to your post and not to anything else on this thread.

    edit: really, it's irrelevant how many game titles are available overall. Most people are interested in playing a smallish set of games, and the kind of availability that matters is how many of those games will run on the platform.
    Quote:

    You are showing the typical thread response. Mac users who believe that game availability AND price sensitivity are both concerns do not go get a videocard for a computer that costs $600 or even $300. I'm going to go buy an inexpensive and specific solution so I can keep more more expensive and generalized solution doing those tasks.



    What I said was that even a competetive player that is in top 20 in all of Europe and plays "his" game 4+ hours a day can get by with $250 cards, a far cry from the utterly unrealistic $600 figure you are throwing around. A casual player will get by with a $100 card and be very comfortable with a $150 one. And for a casual player with a $1000 HD screen, investing $300 in a card that can drive it at full resolution can't be a big deal.
    Quote:

    Not FUD, you are simply used to a higher level of tinkering. There are plenty of games I have seen that require driver or DirectX updates. Do you think the typical computer user, regardless of how exotic or mundane the parts are has ever even updated a driver?



    I haven't had a PC in years, I have a PS2, but when I had one all games that needed a DirectX update installed it during the game install. You just had to click on Next and then OK. This is well within the capability of a casual gamer. What game requires driver updates?
    Quote:

    Again you don't even realize the dollar figures you toss around and why you toss them around. You are talking about spending half as much on a videocard, even a last generation videocard as people will spend for a full computer. Most people are buying $500 computers and $150 consoles and you talking about people managing to get by with a $250 videocard.



    See above.
    Quote:

    Please consider for a second that you, your friends and what you are willing to get by with are still not typical. Even if you are cheap for gaming you are still willing to consider as spending as much for one component as others would for perhaps their entire system.



    You sure repeat yourself a lot.
  • Reply 36 of 53
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Bergermeister

    It is amazing how critical people can be. There are plenty of good Mac games. Just have a look: http://www.apple.com/games/.



    For those of you who have favorite Mac games, list them here .




    I don't see BF2 there. Or Half-Life 2. Or Civilization 4. or FEAR. Or EVE Online. Or dozens of other modern titles.



    See, games aren't a quantity that you can just numerically state. The number of total games doesn't reflect that the games are recent, or well optimized.
  • Reply 37 of 53
    It is all in one's perspective.



    If you want those games, go get a PC and enjoy! You are free to choose whatever computer platform serves your needs. Nobody will stop you.
  • Reply 38 of 53
    resres Posts: 711member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Placebo

    I don't see BF2 there. Or Half-Life 2. Or Civilization 4. or FEAR. Or EVE Online. Or dozens of other modern titles.



    See, games aren't a quantity that you can just numerically state. The number of total games doesn't reflect that the games are recent, or well optimized.




    At least Civilization 4 will be available for the Mac in a couple of months (but I don't if my new iBook will be able to play it).
  • Reply 39 of 53
    auroraaurora Posts: 1,142member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Placebo

    That seriously is the case; Mac users try to make PC gaming seem ridiculous simply because gaming on a Mac and not an optimal experience.



    PS, Alienwares suck.




    Alienwares suck That is funny , really funny when a brand new Quad G5 still cant match frame rates for Doom3 compared to my 1 1/2 yr old Aurora with 6800Gt and its single cpu



    And yes you are 100% correct about all the excuse makers.
  • Reply 40 of 53
    resres Posts: 711member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    I'd say it happens for a number of reasons.



    First and foremost when someone comes into a mac forum and complains about gaming they aren't talking about games in general. I can find thousands of shareware games, card games, commercial games, flash-based games, etc. I can even find dozens of FPS, RPGS, you name it.



    Their complain centers on one specific area of gaming and caters though to only one type of game typically and that is the latest and greatest first person shooter.





    I have to dissagree. Most of the posts I have seen over the past few years

    have not been people complaining that they can't play bleeding edge FPS that need the fastest processors and best graphic cards to run. The vast majority of complaints have been about people wanting to play last years FPS, massively multiplayer online games like world of warcraft, and realtime strategy games (I remember how the iMac choked on Warcraft III).



    Quote:



    -snip-

    There is a reason the most popular online game for PC is still Counterstrike. Almost no one wants to ante up $600 graphics cards to go against each other. A few do, but we don't want to listen to their complaints.





    You seem to think that anyone complaining about weak video-cards in the Mac line wants a $600 graphics card, which is just untrue. The very tiny percentage of people who would drop $600 on a graphics card do not mind spending $2000 on a tower. The people who have been upset about weak GPUs in the Mac line are the ones who want to have a option for a $150 graphics card instead of a $30-$60 one.



    (And before anyones say "console" again, almost all of the computer gamers already own at least one console.)
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