Woodcrest to come before Conroe

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Woodcrest, the workstation/server version of Intel's generation architecture will arrive first in "early Q3", according to a Real World Technology Report:



http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cf...0906143144&p=1



Woodcrest will allow for ECC memory and dual or quad socket motherboards whereas Conroe will be single-socket and not support ECC memory. This means that Woodcrest is the likely CPU for Apple's next PowerMac. Conroe would be a step backwards due to lack of ECC memory and quad configurations. ECC memory is especially important and is currently available on ALL PowerMacs Apple makes.



This means we could see Woodcrest PowerMacs or XServes as early as July/August ("early Q3"), consistent with Apple's recent decision to move WWDC to early August.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 34
    macroninmacronin Posts: 1,140member
    Mmm...



    Quad socket MacPro towers...



    OctoMac!



    Mmm...
  • Reply 2 of 34
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacRonin

    Mmm...



    Quad socket MacPro towers...



    OctoMac!



    Mmm...




    Yeah. Keep that dream alive.. Never gun'na happen.



    Quote:

    As Intel roadmaps have indicated, Merom is the laptop variant, Conroe is for the desktop and Woodcrest is aimed at the single and dual socket server market.



    I didn't see the quote you found anywhere when scanning the article Existence, but I found this one on the first page.



    I don't see where it's explaining that woodcrest is coming first, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were at WWDC.
  • Reply 3 of 34
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Quote:

    Intel will release Woodcrest products first, in early Q3, followed by Conroe later in Q3 and Merom in Q4. These release dates are more of a reflection of Intel?s competitive position in each market and their margins, than anything else. The mobile market has the highest margins for Intel, although the least competition, thanks to Intel?s aggressive marketing of the excellent Centrino platform using Yonah. This is not expected to change in the near future, and Yonah was released very recently in January. The server market has the next highest margins, and Intel?s offerings are lagging behind AMD by a fair bit. The desktop market is the least lucrative of all three, and is moderately close in terms of performance. Looking at all these variables, it is easy to see how and why Intel picked their release schedules. The server offerings need the most improvement, then the desktop market and last the mobile market. Moreover, a short product life cycle for Yonah would be financially and strategically undesirable.



  • Reply 4 of 34
    nauticalnautical Posts: 109member
    Yes, it is a bit sad that AMD can't put the heat on Intel in the mobile processor world.
  • Reply 5 of 34
    macroninmacronin Posts: 1,140member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    Yeah. Keep that dream alive.. Never gun'na happen.







    I didn't see the quote you found anywhere when scanning the article Existence, but I found this one on the first page.



    I don't see where it's explaining that woodcrest is coming first, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were at WWDC.




    Yeah, and there was a point where you thought we would never see Pro-level OpenGL cards in a Mac either, was there not?!?



    An d all of a sudden, we gots nVidia QuadroFX 4500 PCI Express cards showing up...



    Never say never...!
  • Reply 6 of 34
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacRonin

    Yeah, and there was a point where you thought we would never see Pro-level OpenGL cards in a Mac either, was there not?!?



    An d all of a sudden, we gots nVidia QuadroFX 4500 PCI Express cards showing up...



    Never say never...!




    They sure waited long enough. By the time they released it; I was already set up for a few years. I hope they keep the high perf. cards coming because I will be ready to buy again when the PowerMac replacment arrives.



    On a side note:



    Quote:

    From MacCentral

    Quad-core coming?



    In the other big news from IDF, Intel unveiled more details regarding its plans for quad-core chips. Intel said it plans to release its first quad-core chip for desktop PCs, codenamed ?Kentsfield,? in the first quarter of 2007. But this chip won?t really meld four central processing units into one chip?as rival AMD plans to do with its quad-core chips coming in 2007.



    Instead, Intel?s ?Kentsfield? will combine two dual-core chips into one package. This isn?t the most efficient design strategy, but it will help Intel get quad-core chips to market at the same time as AMD. Of course, Intel will improve the quad-core design as quickly as possible. For Apple users, quad-core chips will mean a huge amount of horsepower compared to today?s highest-end Apple desktops.




  • Reply 7 of 34
    zandroszandros Posts: 537member
    Since the Mac Pro most probably will use high end Intel chipsets, should we be able to expect CrossFire card support in it?
  • Reply 8 of 34
    macroninmacronin Posts: 1,140member
    We should expect Quad socket main logic boards...



    With Quad-core CPUs filling said sockets...



    And Quad SLI graphics...!



    Mmm...
  • Reply 9 of 34
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacRonin

    We should expect Quad socket main logic boards...



    With Quad-core CPUs filling said sockets...



    And Quad SLI graphics...!



    Mmm...




    So far Autodesk (Maya) has not committed to Universal Binaries, or even supporting the Mac after they bought out Alias, and I think without them, or other big name 3D Applications in their corner you would have got to be off your rocker, or just plain kidding (yes I do realize your kidding). But seriously I really can't see this (quad socket) thing happening with what the woodcrest costs.

    If Apple's sales people for "big game hunting" had Maya, and/or XSI, and Massive (the application) in their corner as an example it's possible that maybe Apple would/could sell the system you describe as a workstation to studios like ILM, and Weta because they already have systems using SHAKE, and that's a foot in the door, but the best you could hope for "At this time" pushing Modo, and C4D is to go for something close to home like Disney, and Pixar animation Studios, with Smaller sales for various Pro Applications (like SHAKE through Logic), through their ever expanding existing outlets. But a widespread need for such a Power-Horse from the Majority of HARDCORE MacPRO (even for 3D) users is minimal. Most who can afford it will be satisfied with Dual socket Woodcrests that could possibly be upgraded to Kensington, or Clover-towns (Whatever the 4 core version is) in the future.

    True SLI availability would be cool as shit to have listed as available for the Mac, and 2x "Full Speed" 16x PCI-E slots would be the answer to that, and probably not that big of a deal to apply in the manufacturing process. It's almost a gimme that all slots will probably be PCI-E so if one doesn't need SLI you just leave it open like a normal slot. Would be a great feature even for photoshop users that would like to improve their graphic renders. As I recall Core Image, and Core Video will offload rendering to the GPU so dueling any GPU with SLI could/would be beneficial. I think. But many PC manufacturers are using PCI-E based SLI, and PCI-X on the same motherboard so there is a chance that Apple is going to request to have it to improve Pro Audio Application Sales. But it would be better if these freaking Audio clowns would just update their freaking cards from the (what outdated by 3 years now?) PCI standard like the rest of society.



    However they could probably sell a butt load of highend servers with a RenderMan, Shake combo.



    The aforementioned in it's entirety was my speculative 2¢
  • Reply 10 of 34
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,215member
    More confirmation of Woodcrest shipping early



    Intel is moving up its ship date for Woodcrest, the first dual-core server processor based on its new Core Architecture, a top Intel executive said Tuesday.

    Woodcrest will now ship in the third quarter, Tom Kilroy, vice president and general manager of Intel's Digital Enterprise Group, said at the Intel Solutions Summit in Scottsdale, Ariz. Intel originally expected to ship the processor in the "late third-quarter or fourth-quarter time frame," he said.



    Kilroy also told system builders that the company's quad-core processor, code-named Clovertown, will ship in the first quarter of 2007. Intel had previously pegged that product to ship early next year, though many industry observers said they expected it sometime in the first quarter.



    "This is an indication of how serious we are about gaining leadership," Kilroy said. "If you look at where we have lost ground, it has been in the server marketplace."







    Sounds nice. Bring on the Woodcrest Power Macs!
  • Reply 11 of 34
    wmfwmf Posts: 1,164member
    A Conroe system with a good chipset will support ECC, so that is a red herring. I suspect Apple's dual MacMac Pro will use Conroe and the quad will use Woodcrest (just like all the other x86 workstation vendors).
  • Reply 12 of 34
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by wmf

    A Conroe system with a good chipset will support ECC, so that is a red herring. I suspect Apple's dual MacMac Pro will use Conroe and the quad will use Woodcrest (just like all the other x86 workstation vendors).





    Neither Alienware, or BOXX have them.

    Apple isn't going to have a 4 socket workstation. No x86 workstations have them. What other x86 workstation vendors are you talking about? There is the BOXX APEXX4, but it's more of a render station, and apple has Xserves that can do that more adequately using server nodes. (for a lot less BTW). Those BOXX systems cost $23,260, and $42,450. Apple isn't planning that for the consumer. Not in this economy. Apple, and the x86 vendors will use Woodcrest in their pro workstations. Conroe for consumer desktops. At IDF intel said Woodcrest is only a single, and dual socket processor anyway. It wont do 4 sockets yet.
  • Reply 13 of 34
    wmfwmf Posts: 1,164member
    A quad G5 has two sockets, and of course a quad Woodcrest system also has two sockets.
  • Reply 14 of 34
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by wmf

    A quad G5 has two sockets, and of course a quad Woodcrest system also has two sockets.



    Sorry my bad. You weren't specific. I thought you were taking MacRonin's post seriously.

    I think the Apple Store will need to bring back the processor options pulldown for these systems. Because I would expect no matter what they did people are going to want to get the best value for how much money they can afford to spend. What I mean is Dual socket, and Single for both processors. (that's your standard 4 choices at the store) A dual socket dual cored Conroe is going to be more affordable, but not as fast as the same system running under the woodcrest, and both processors will have multiple speeds so you almost have to have processor speed options under a pulldown menu. If not everybody will be complaining about one thing or another. The same would go single socket versions on both. It is a tough economy on the majority of U.S. residents right now. As I see it the more choices they give will give them better sales.
  • Reply 15 of 34
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Conroe is single-chip only, no dual-duals. The PM replacement needs to be affordable, so it won't be Woodcrests. As onlooker suggests, they will come in Xserve models only. If Woodcrest is delayed, the PM replacement might even use Yonahs.



    Yet more shame on Apple for this Intel transition. AMD's had quad-capable Opterons for over a year. Intel's expected to stay in catch-up mode for the foreseeable future. The motto of this transition is "just good enough".
  • Reply 16 of 34
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cubist

    Conroe is single-chip only, no dual-duals. The PM replacement needs to be affordable, so it won't be Woodcrests. As onlooker suggests, they will come in Xserve models only. If Woodcrest is delayed, the PM replacement might even use Yonahs.



    Yet more shame on Apple for this Intel transition. AMD's had quad-capable Opterons for over a year. Intel's expected to stay in catch-up mode for the foreseeable future. The motto of this transition is "just good enough".




    AMD Fanboy I doubt your logic, or your Yonah speculation, and Woodcrest was just moved up ahead of Conroe in time by intel. (and IMHO is a better looking processor on paper than the Opteron) But being that Conroe is single socket processor only as you've said that opens up more room. I'm speculating that there will be a Conroe version in the line, but Conroe is a desktop processor not a Pro workstation processor. It may handle the apps acceptably, but Apple makes Pro Apps for Pro's and if they want to keep respectability in this at all they will not stop selling workstations. If they do they are going to kill all their Pro Apps, and Pro Sales in one fatal blow. They have been marketing the PowerMac as a Workstation for years. Either they play the game, or their out of the game. It's not about money. It's about truth. Who would trust Apple after that? They would loose more face than Michael Jackson at a Plastic surgeons office.
  • Reply 17 of 34
    tubgirltubgirl Posts: 177member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cubist

    Conroe is single-chip only, no dual-duals. The PM replacement needs to be affordable, so it won't be Woodcrests.



    it's not like the woodcrests will be *that* terribly expensive.



    afaik, mid-range will be like $300-500. with two of those in the box, you wont be seeing (anything near) a $999 workstation but i dont think it will scare anyone away who need the performance.

    (and those who dont need all that performance are better off with the imac/mini anyway, or so i've been told...)



    a low-end cronoe? i dont know... would the chipsets be compatible/same?

    i guess apple would like to use the same main board across the line. (or atleast only one single-socket and one dual-socket mainboard.)
  • Reply 18 of 34
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cubist

    Conroe is single-chip only, no dual-duals. The PM replacement needs to be affordable, so it won't be Woodcrests. As onlooker suggests, they will come in Xserve models only. If Woodcrest is delayed, the PM replacement might even use Yonahs.



    Yet more shame on Apple for this Intel transition. AMD's had quad-capable Opterons for over a year. Intel's expected to stay in catch-up mode for the foreseeable future. The motto of this transition is "just good enough".




    Be reasonable. Yes AMD have fine chips, especially opterons. However, Intels new Core line-up is as good or better. Conroes will make nice entry level work stations while woodcrest will fill in the high end. The move to intel gives more chips and more choices. Hopefully Apple will fill in some of the gaps in their product line.
  • Reply 19 of 34
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by backtomac

    Be reasonable. Yes AMD have fine chips, especially opterons. However, Intels new Core line-up is as good or better. Conroes will make nice entry level work stations while woodcrest will fill in the high end. The move to intel gives more chips and more choices. Hopefully Apple will fill in some of the gaps in their product line.



    And with their growth they probably need more lines to accommodate. They will look more attractive to potential PC buyers with more to chose from. THe problem is the iPod buzz is over. Apple should have struck earlier. They need a new product with a whole new spin (not a POD) and whole new buzz. That is what will make them. Doing it once can be a fluke, but doing it twice consecutively is going to give you the magic touch.
  • Reply 20 of 34
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    And with their growth they probably need more lines to accommodate. They will look more attractive to potential PC buyers with more to chose from. THe problem is the iPod buzz is over. Apple should have struck earlier. They need a new product with a whole new spin (not a POD) and whole new buzz. That is what will make them. Doing it once can be a fluke, but doing it twice consecutively is going to give you the magic touch.



    How do you think this would do if offered: 2.3ghz Conroe power mac with similar specs to current entry level ppc power mac for $1599. This is the "hole' that seems to exist in the current mac product line, IMO.
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