How do you think this would do if offered: 2.3ghz Conroe power mac with similar specs to current entry level ppc power mac for $1599. This is the "hole' that seems to exist in the current mac product line, IMO.
Apple could really make a lot of us happy with 2 headless desktop lines:
- The PowerMac replacement: big tower, 4/6 PCIe slots, 4 HD spaces, dual and/or dual-dual configurations, woodcrest chips up to 3GHz, FSB 1333... from $1999 to $3xxx.
- The new mid-range line: smaller desktop (mini-tower or pizzabox), 2PCIe slots (Ã* la XServe), 2 HD spaces, Conroe dual-core chips up to 2.67GHz, FSB 1066... from $999 to $1699.
The first Conroe chip (1.86GHz) is supposed to cost $209, the same as the 1.66GHz Core Solo chip.
The 2.13GHz version is supposed to cost $241, the same as the 1.66GHz Core Duo chip.
I really doubt Apple will sell a Pro Desktop for under $2000 or there abouts. The G5 Quad costs $3300!
A top end 3 GHz Woodcrest, aka Xeon E5160 or some such, will go for $850. The 2.66 GHz version will go for $700. Apple can put 2 3-GHz Woodcrest CPUs into a box and still have $1500 to fill out the rest of the components if they want to maintain a $3300 price point on the top end pro desktop. That won't be a problem. Odds are pretty good that they want to sell a quad in the $3000 to $3500 range anyways.
So my prediction is Conroe will into the single socket low end configs at $1999 and $2499 price points, and Woodcrests will go into the dual socket high end config using the Bensley platform for $2999.
How do you think this would do if offered: 2.3ghz Conroe power mac with similar specs to current entry level ppc power mac for $1599. This is the "hole' that seems to exist in the current mac product line, IMO.
You can configure an iMac to that price, but I see what your saying.
Maybe if they added a slimmer tower like the Alienware bot. (I've suggested this before)
But Apple has seemed to like the idea that the iMac is the consumer desktop, and they have been highly criticized for it from those who need more than an iMac, but less than a Pro workstation. I've always thought that is why Apple usually drops a processor from the low end PowerMac a few months after sales have cooled a bit. Nobody seems to notice that they always have a single processor version of a motherboard all ready to go. it's just a matter of deciding when you have enough of the other in stock to last.
And mjteix I'm doubting there will be woodcrest version for $1,999 unless it striped down single processor version with no extras, and I'm doubting that starting price. Maybe $2,300 but even that seems like out of your mind scenario.
But Apple has seemed to like the idea that the iMac is the consumer desktop, and they have been highly criticized for it from those who need more than an iMac, but less than a Pro workstation.
This 'hole' will be bigger when the power macs come with Conroe and woodcrest chips because the iMacs will only have core duos or perhaps merom chips. Perhaps this is intentional. Apple should really look at offering an entry level workstation at the $1500-1600 price. The current iMac may not be able to fill that gap like it has when it came with a g5 chip. While people complained about using the iMac as a semi-pro workstation, plenty seemed to do it.
This 'hole' will be bigger when the power macs come with Conroe and woodcrest chips because the iMacs will only have core duos or perhaps merom chips. Perhaps this is intentional. Apple should really look at offering an entry level workstation at the $1500-1600 price. The current iMac may not be able to fill that gap like it has when it came with a g5 chip. While people complained about using the iMac as a semi-pro workstation, plenty seemed to do it.
This 'hole' will be bigger when the power macs come with Conroe and woodcrest chips because the iMacs will only have core duos or perhaps merom chips.
I suspect the iMac will get Conroe/Merom (LV?) 2.0 and 2.3GHz and the low-end MacMac Pro will get Conroe 2.6GHz, so the gap will actually be quite small.
I suspect the iMac will get Conroe/Merom (LV?) 2.0 and 2.3GHz and the low-end MacMac Pro will get Conroe 2.6GHz, so the gap will actually be quite small.
According to intel Merom is the next mobile CPU, and Conroe is the next desktop CPU. So there may be something to what your saying, but then again an iMac is almost laptop size.
I suspect the iMac will get Conroe/Merom (LV?) 2.0 and 2.3GHz and the low-end MacMac Pro will get Conroe 2.6GHz, so the gap will actually be quite small.
I think that the conroe may be to hot for the iMac. I think it will get merom relatively soon after they are available.
Conroe is going to be in the Powermac. ECC support isn't that important for general workstation performance. Woodcrest isn't going to be that much faster than Conroe. It's the same core basically with a few tweaks(SMP) and larger L2 cache.
Woodcrest isn't cheap enough (in higher mhz models) to warrant having dual CPU sockets on all Powermacs.
Apple might drop features like ECC RAM, but they wouldn't downgrade from "Dual-Dual-Quad" to "Dual-Dual-Dual", no matter what the benchmarks of Conroe. At least one PowerMac will have Woodcrest, if only the high-end.
Apple might drop features like ECC RAM, but they wouldn't downgrade from "Dual-Dual-Quad" to "Dual-Dual-Dual", no matter what the benchmarks of Conroe. At least one PowerMac will have Woodcrest, if only the high-end.
I agree. I think we see a Woodcrest Quad at the high end. I personally wouldn't sniff at a Conroe. By the time I'm ready for some big iron like this though there will be quad core chips...sigh.
I agree. I think we see a Woodcrest Quad at the high end. I personally wouldn't sniff at a Conroe. By the time I'm ready for some big iron like this though there will be quad core chips...sigh.
Those dual Quad core Machines are going to be sweet, but I'm going to throw my cash at a dual socket, dual cored woodcrest system. I'm not waiting.
Comments
Originally posted by backtomac
How do you think this would do if offered: 2.3ghz Conroe power mac with similar specs to current entry level ppc power mac for $1599. This is the "hole' that seems to exist in the current mac product line, IMO.
Apple could really make a lot of us happy with 2 headless desktop lines:
- The PowerMac replacement: big tower, 4/6 PCIe slots, 4 HD spaces, dual and/or dual-dual configurations, woodcrest chips up to 3GHz, FSB 1333... from $1999 to $3xxx.
- The new mid-range line: smaller desktop (mini-tower or pizzabox), 2PCIe slots (Ã* la XServe), 2 HD spaces, Conroe dual-core chips up to 2.67GHz, FSB 1066... from $999 to $1699.
The first Conroe chip (1.86GHz) is supposed to cost $209, the same as the 1.66GHz Core Solo chip.
The 2.13GHz version is supposed to cost $241, the same as the 1.66GHz Core Duo chip.
A top end 3 GHz Woodcrest, aka Xeon E5160 or some such, will go for $850. The 2.66 GHz version will go for $700. Apple can put 2 3-GHz Woodcrest CPUs into a box and still have $1500 to fill out the rest of the components if they want to maintain a $3300 price point on the top end pro desktop. That won't be a problem. Odds are pretty good that they want to sell a quad in the $3000 to $3500 range anyways.
So my prediction is Conroe will into the single socket low end configs at $1999 and $2499 price points, and Woodcrests will go into the dual socket high end config using the Bensley platform for $2999.
Originally posted by backtomac
How do you think this would do if offered: 2.3ghz Conroe power mac with similar specs to current entry level ppc power mac for $1599. This is the "hole' that seems to exist in the current mac product line, IMO.
You can configure an iMac to that price, but I see what your saying.
Maybe if they added a slimmer tower like the Alienware bot. (I've suggested this before)
But Apple has seemed to like the idea that the iMac is the consumer desktop, and they have been highly criticized for it from those who need more than an iMac, but less than a Pro workstation. I've always thought that is why Apple usually drops a processor from the low end PowerMac a few months after sales have cooled a bit. Nobody seems to notice that they always have a single processor version of a motherboard all ready to go. it's just a matter of deciding when you have enough of the other in stock to last.
And mjteix I'm doubting there will be woodcrest version for $1,999 unless it striped down single processor version with no extras, and I'm doubting that starting price. Maybe $2,300 but even that seems like out of your mind scenario.
Originally posted by onlooker
But Apple has seemed to like the idea that the iMac is the consumer desktop, and they have been highly criticized for it from those who need more than an iMac, but less than a Pro workstation.
This 'hole' will be bigger when the power macs come with Conroe and woodcrest chips because the iMacs will only have core duos or perhaps merom chips. Perhaps this is intentional. Apple should really look at offering an entry level workstation at the $1500-1600 price. The current iMac may not be able to fill that gap like it has when it came with a g5 chip. While people complained about using the iMac as a semi-pro workstation, plenty seemed to do it.
Originally posted by backtomac
This 'hole' will be bigger when the power macs come with Conroe and woodcrest chips because the iMacs will only have core duos or perhaps merom chips. Perhaps this is intentional. Apple should really look at offering an entry level workstation at the $1500-1600 price. The current iMac may not be able to fill that gap like it has when it came with a g5 chip. While people complained about using the iMac as a semi-pro workstation, plenty seemed to do it.
Yonah - Mac mini, MacBook, MacPad mini, MacPad
Merom - MacBook Pro, MacPad Pro
Conroe - iMac
Woodcrest - MacPro, Xserve
;^p
Mac mini, Macbook- Yonah
Macbook Pro, iMac- Merom
Powermac- Conroe, Woodcrest
The reasons why are this.
Yonah becomes the "Celeron" low end
Merom becomes the step up proc. iMac uses it for heat reasons
Conroe/Woodcrest seperate the low and midrange macs from the top of the line.
Originally posted by backtomac
This 'hole' will be bigger when the power macs come with Conroe and woodcrest chips because the iMacs will only have core duos or perhaps merom chips.
I suspect the iMac will get Conroe/Merom (LV?) 2.0 and 2.3GHz and the low-end MacMac Pro will get Conroe 2.6GHz, so the gap will actually be quite small.
Originally posted by wmf
I suspect the iMac will get Conroe/Merom (LV?) 2.0 and 2.3GHz and the low-end MacMac Pro will get Conroe 2.6GHz, so the gap will actually be quite small.
According to intel Merom is the next mobile CPU, and Conroe is the next desktop CPU. So there may be something to what your saying, but then again an iMac is almost laptop size.
Originally posted by wmf
I suspect the iMac will get Conroe/Merom (LV?) 2.0 and 2.3GHz and the low-end MacMac Pro will get Conroe 2.6GHz, so the gap will actually be quite small.
I think that the conroe may be to hot for the iMac. I think it will get merom relatively soon after they are available.
Mobile chips (Yonah, Merom) in the notebooks, Mac mini, and iMac, due to heat and power consumption concerns.
Woodcrest will be required for PowerMacs, if they are to keep anywhere near their current specs.
This leaves a gap for Conroe, single-processor, non-ECC, machines.
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So here's what I envision the lineup to be in the near future:
Mac mini: 2.00GHz+ Yonah by the next revision, possibly using some 1.83 chips as well
iMac: Merom chips
iBook/MacBook: High-end Yonah or mid-range Merom chips
MacBook Pro: High-end Merom
PowerMac/xServe: Woodcrest, all the bells and whistles
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So where's Conroe? I see a mid-range, headless Mac coming on, unless Conroe can be shoehorned into an iMac (!!!)
Woodcrest isn't cheap enough (in higher mhz models) to warrant having dual CPU sockets on all Powermacs.
Originally posted by StealthRider
Apple might drop features like ECC RAM, but they wouldn't downgrade from "Dual-Dual-Quad" to "Dual-Dual-Dual", no matter what the benchmarks of Conroe. At least one PowerMac will have Woodcrest, if only the high-end.
I agree. I think we see a Woodcrest Quad at the high end. I personally wouldn't sniff at a Conroe. By the time I'm ready for some big iron like this though there will be quad core chips...sigh.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I agree. I think we see a Woodcrest Quad at the high end. I personally wouldn't sniff at a Conroe. By the time I'm ready for some big iron like this though there will be quad core chips...sigh.
Those dual Quad core Machines are going to be sweet, but I'm going to throw my cash at a dual socket, dual cored woodcrest system. I'm not waiting.