why I don't like boot camp
I know we all hope that windows users will discover the joy of osx but the truth is many developers will think, why write for osx when they can just boot in to windows, Some may not think this way but many will, do to expense and manpower of maintaining both.
the second reason is I prefer to run windows inside of osx...I am hoping microsoft does not abandon their plans to bring virtual pc to the intel macs.
the second reason is I prefer to run windows inside of osx...I am hoping microsoft does not abandon their plans to bring virtual pc to the intel macs.
Comments
Also you give a poor argument about developers not writing for mac os x. I don't wish to be rude but you should really give a better argument for such a big topic.
Thus i utterly disagree with you. Developers won't drop Apple because they should realize that people want all their applications in one place. People don't want to restart into something that is only their as a compromise.
THINK ABOUT IT, will Apple drop OS X iTunes because it'll drop prices? NO, because the hub of the system is os x and people will not want to have their music library in a different place to their work. i.e. work on mac, music on xp.
ITS A COMPROMISE.
nothing more.
I don't, however, think that Apple will bring virtualization to Leopard. I see this as a very sneaky one-way migration path tool, and nothing more at this point.
Don't get me wrong, I'd *LOVE* to have VPC-esque capabilities for a couple of apps (grudgingly), when I really can't see rebooting just to run them, but I also don't see Apple providing that by default in the OS.
Doing so gets you right into the quagmire of devs dropping Mac-native support. Doing it *this* way leaves such a large barrier to flipping between apps, that it is, for all intents and purposes, a pain in the butt.
Pains in the butt lead to users looking to minimize those pains. If the easiest salve is moving the data to the Mac side, they'll take it. Note that, without some extra work, there's no way to move data from the Mac side to the Windows side.
For me, when I need to use one of those 2 non-Mac apps, I personally have no need to be able to run them a la VPC-like, so re-booting to XP to use them is great!
Now I just need a MacTower, which I assume will be out around the time Leopard is released
I really don't have an argument for this...it just seems obvious to me.
How do I work this?
And you may ask yourself
Where is that large automobile?
And you may tell yourself
This is not my beautiful house!
And you may tell yourself
This is not the Mac OS forum!
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
And you may ask yourself
What is that beautiful house?
And you may ask yourself
Where does that highway go?
And you may ask yourself
Am I right?...Am I wrong?
And you may say to yourself
MY GOD!...WHAT HAVE I DONE?
and in a way it is here already...called the internet, perhaps in the not so distant future all apps will run online, instead of buying photoshop you would simply subscribe to it from any platform
Originally posted by mercury7
alot of my opinion is based on talking to the creator of a small app called picture window pro, I use it for my digital artwork and there is no substitute on the mac platform. Small companies like this can not consider writing a mac version but they have been watching the intel transition with interest because I guess it would be easier to write and maintain two versions, but if it becomes easy for us to just boot into windows then I think it raises the question of whether or not it is worth it...,,
I really don't have an argument for this...it just seems obvious to me.
Really?
Consider this... to use that app, you're going to have to keep the photos on the Windows side, by default. (No transfer of data from Mac side to Windows side.)
It then becomes whether you want that app, or whether you want the other apps on the Mac side. At some point the balance tips one way or the other.
If the dev wants to retain you as a customer, they'll consider a Mac port.
Originally posted by mercury7
alot of my opinion is based on talking to the creator of a small app called picture window pro, I use it for my digital artwork and there is no substitute on the mac platform. Small companies like this can not consider writing a mac version but they have been watching the intel transition with interest because I guess it would be easier to write and maintain two versions, but if it becomes easy for us to just boot into windows then I think it raises the question of whether or not it is worth it...,,
I really don't have an argument for this...it just seems obvious to me.
Your post makes no sense. "Small companies like this cannot consider writing a Mac version ... I guess it would be easier to write and maintain two versions..."
Am I missing something here? The only thing the switch from PPC to Intel CPUs changed about how OS X apps are coded is CodeWarrior cannot code OS X Intel apps. You still have to use Win APIs for Windows and OS X APIs for Mac.
Every since Apple started catering to the Windows users, we have seen nothing but compromises. Not a great long laundry list of compromises but a substantial list for sure. One of the more visible ones is the Firewire issue of course. That is an extremely sore spot from me. That is the most ridiculous compromise I have ever seen. We all know that the firewire chip would have been cheaper and smaller to integrate anyway.
Damn Microsoft and their refusal to cater to firewire!
Then there are the application design compromises that we see in iTunes and others. And connected with that (in an effort to use iTunes as a Trojan Horse) are other issues of parallel design, like Mac users being forced into ridculous syncing methodologies just so Windows users can have access to the same phone/pda syncing capabilities (via iTunes). This is so stupid.
And then the whole issue of Apple introducing the multi-button mouse. I work with one hand on the keyboard, and one hand on the mouse. I can easily hit that command key or option key or control key or shift key or escape or whatever to become more efficient and have access to more options than you ever could with a 2-button (or 3 or 4-button) mouse.
Lets say we all used Microsofts way of incorporating the mouse on the desktop. Then; consider the move to a laptop machine which is so prevalent in todays world. Talk about inconsistency - 'course, it is coming from the Windows world...
You are not going to be able to easily pull out (and in some locations, it will just be impossible) and plug in a mouse ? be it a 1-button OR 2-button mouse. This is another reason the keyboard hotkeys, functioning in conjuction with those cursor clicks, will obviously come in more handy than a 2 button mouse. Hell, I know some Windows users that don't even know what the Control key or Alt key do.
I'm sick of compromises and being held back just to drag some Windows users along.
OK. It is obvious however, that the introduction of Boot Camp will drive market share up and make more money for Apple. There is no denying that. And it is obviously good for their stock performance.
But now back to the negative. This will just serve to make Microsoft more money. Apple basically just ensured and additional $300 - 500 million for Microsoft - and that's this year alone. Darnit.
BUT, I have to step back and say that in the long run (2 yearsish) this will be damaging to Microsoft and will mean even more money for Apple and even more of a market share too. That will draw developers.
Originally posted by Kickaha
I don't think MS will drop VPC. There's too big a market for it.
I don't, however, think that Apple will bring virtualization to Leopard. I see this as a very sneaky one-way migration path tool, and nothing more at this point.
Don't get me wrong, I'd *LOVE* to have VPC-esque capabilities for a couple of apps (grudgingly), when I really can't see rebooting just to run them, but I also don't see Apple providing that by default in the OS.
Doing so gets you right into the quagmire of devs dropping Mac-native support. Doing it *this* way leaves such a large barrier to flipping between apps, that it is, for all intents and purposes, a pain in the butt.
Pains in the butt lead to users looking to minimize those pains. If the easiest salve is moving the data to the Mac side, they'll take it. Note that, without some extra work, there's no way to move data from the Mac side to the Windows side.
On the issue of M$ and VPC, I am quite sure the only update in the 3-4 years that Microsoft has had VPC came just a month after they bought the company and the re-release just entailed repackaging and rebranding. The G5s won't work with it, is that correct? Nor, of course, the Intel Macs. Am I wrong? I believe their intention all along was to let it die a slow death.
On the issue of virtualization, Boot Camp is only a temporary solution and one that Apple was forced to release at an early stage because of the recent XP bounty booty. I believe they released it in its current state to insure a more friendly experience on their hardware.
as for porting to the mac to avoid losing me as a customer, it is purely economics....there are simply to few of them at the company and to few of us mac users...until that changes there will be no picture window for the mac. It really is a wonderful program...if you have access to a pc you should try it, do a search for picture window pro and you can get a full functioning trial. It was written by the same guy who wrote lotus123 if your old enough to remember that
Originally posted by rongold
[B]On the issue of M$ and VPC, I am quite sure the only update in the 3-4 years that Microsoft has had VPC came just a month after they bought the company and the re-release just entailed repackaging and rebranding. The G5s won't work with it, is that correct? Nor, of course, the Intel Macs. Am I wrong? I believe their intention all along was to let it die a slow death.
Probably, but Apple just changed their game plan.
Look at it this way - they can either...
a) Ignore VPC, and users will use BootCamp to migrate from Windows to MacOS X when they realize what a PITA dual-booting is for all but the most mundane things like gaming
b) Get VPC out the door and have a prayer of continuing to make the argument that developers should just develop for Windows APIs because users can always use VPC
On the issue of virtualization, Boot Camp is only a temporary solution and one that Apple was forced to release at an early stage because of the recent XP bounty booty. I believe they released it in its current state to insure a more friendly experience on their hardware.
This is polished enough (drivers, et al) that it's obvious this has been in the works for quite a while... I'd wager long before the contest that popped up on the net. Months, even.
It's a brilliant bit of subterfuge IMO... "Look, we'll let you dual-boot!" Subtext: "and make it just painful enough that you're going to want to move everything over to the Mac side ASAP... and we're not going to give you an easy path back"
Originally posted by mercury7
I am not a software writer so I have no idea why the switch to intel raised interest in writing for osx, I just assumed it must be easier some how for people that have exclusively written for windows.
Not in the least bit. This has *NOTHING* to do with porting an app.
What it does do is make Windows developers a bit more nervous that their user base are going to migrate to the Mac. It doesn't have to do with the overall market share, it has to do with how many of *that developer's* users migrate.
as for porting to the mac to avoid losing me as a customer, it is purely economics....there are simply to few of them at the company and to few of us mac users...until that changes there will be no picture window for the mac. It really is a wonderful program...if you have access to a pc you should try it, do a search for picture window pro and you can get a full functioning trial. It was written by the same guy who wrote lotus123 if your old enough to remember that
Dude, I remember VisiCalc when it came out.
Mitch Kapor is doing photo editing programs now? Wacky.
Originally posted by mercury7
umm...no, Johnathon Sachs (spell?)
Ah, okay. Kapor was the designer/architect, Sachs was the technical lead.
this a link to the program and below is a link to my digital art gallerys I created with it. http://www.fotki.com/mercury7
let me know if you like them
BUT i want to run both windows AND osx so i can just switch back and forth from this stupid single app that my work requires. so for me virtualization may work better. booting in and out of windows and osx wouldn't be convenient for me. why can't apple due a vpc maybe they had a deal with apple to continue office. MS bought vpc not just for macs but for server stuff wasn't that true???