i look at boot camp and mac mini as similar for transition and hand holding for those that are afraid to migrate to osx altogether. this with late vista delivery will grow mac market. funny how many asked for this (apple monitors these forums) and within weeks or days of MS announcing futher delays in vista....bingo here is bootcamp. it was always there, apple just waited to get best momentum from MS misteps. MS is the most disrepected software company, apple and dell are most repected (read somewhere today) many pc writers are reccommending not getting vista when it first comes out, asking to be vista ready but let early adopters work out the bugs. this is great timing for apple. SJ is smart....very smart.
BUT i want to run both windows AND osx so i can just switch back and forth from this stupid single app that my work requires. so for me virtualization may work better. booting in and out of windows and osx wouldn't be convenient for me. why can't apple due a vpc maybe they had a deal with apple to continue office. hey business liked it apple stock went up 7% and they upped the target price to 105 just a few days ago then lowered the price target.
Hmmm, I think this could very well be the end of cross-platform game and 3rd party app development for OSX! Why bother porting it when "they can just dual boot"?? And all the ones who are still PPC based are left out in the cold...
It's a trojan horse. Think of large deployed PCs needing to be upgraded and with this you can buy Macs and retain your licensing with Microsoft. When they start using OS X they will have a direct comparison and make decision inside their own corporations which works best for them.
Think of being able to blast disk images of XP from OS X Server to these dual boot systems satisfying some department's needs for XP and others needs for OS X.
Hmmm, I think this could very well be the end of cross-platform game and 3rd party app development for OSX! Why bother porting it when "they can just dual boot"??
Because dual booting is a pain in the butt. You have to stop everything you're doing, wait for a few minutes, do that one thing, save it, quit it, reboot again to the other OS, get everything back up and running again...
Nobody is going to put up with that for long. They'll either stick with an all Windows environment (with some of their data sitting on the Mac side now, with no trivial way to migrate it back), or they'll move to the Mac side and stay there except for just the *very* occasional Windows use.
This affects Mac app development almost none at all, IMO. If they had offered a virtualization layer, ala VPC, then yeah, I'd be selling my stock.
Unless you get the OEM for XP you're spending quite a nickel for XP. Thus I doubt you have developers that will automatically assume that every Mac users has indeed paid the money for XP and installed it.
Because dual booting is a pain in the butt. You have to stop everything you're doing, wait for a few minutes, do that one thing, save it, quit it, reboot again to the other OS, get everything back up and running again...
Agreed, and I hate turning off my machine, i might have other 'users' set up and running in the background downloading files or whatever and to shut off my mac to boot xp to play a game or run an app isn't going to make me happy.
Unless you get the OEM for XP you're spending quite a nickel for XP. Thus I doubt you have developers that will automatically assume that every Mac users has indeed paid the money for XP and installed it.
Contrary to everyone else here, I don't see Microsoft as the one we should be worrying about. I think Apple did this mostly take sales away from other hardware manufacturers. Remember, at the end of the day, it IS a hardware company.
well.... atleast, the partition with windows will require periodical reinstall and reformatting..... and I'm sure many folks will just stick with OS X in the end. It would've been even better if you can run windows apps under OS X without booting windows. I gues M$ wouldn't allow that........
Hopeful Apple smuggle in some bugs via the drivers that result in false error messages in WIndows (not the "your keyboard isn´t supported" type but "Windows have detected a buffer overrun in sector 42. Please report this bug to MS and reinstall WIndows" type)
Because dual booting is a pain in the butt. You have to stop everything you're doing, wait for a few minutes, do that one thing, save it, quit it, reboot again to the other OS, get everything back up and running again...
Nobody is going to put up with that for long. They'll either stick with an all Windows environment (with some of their data sitting on the Mac side now, with no trivial way to migrate it back), or they'll move to the Mac side and stay there except for just the *very* occasional Windows use.
This affects Mac app development almost none at all, IMO. If they had offered a virtualization layer, ala VPC, then yeah, I'd be selling my stock.
I think the point is that dual booting is a pain in the butt for Mac users not cross-platform developers. OS X gaining popularity means cross-platform developers lose money if they don't support it but if Mac users can be encouraged to use XP, they could see an easy way out.
Put it this way. You are a developer with no previous intention to support OS X. You now have some users who have Macs, do you:
a. tell them to boot Windows with an officially supported mechanism for booting Windows
b. modify the software specifically for OS X and have to debug/maintain two sets of software?
I think the point is that dual booting is a pain in the butt for Mac users not cross-platform developers. OS X gaining popularity means cross-platform developers lose money if they don't support it but if Mac users can be encouraged to use XP, they could see an easy way out.
Put it this way. You are a developer with no previous intention to support OS X. You now have some users who have Macs, do you:
a. tell them to boot Windows with an officially supported mechanism for booting Windows
b. modify the software specifically for OS X and have to debug/maintain two sets of software?
Where is the logic?
a. We assume the XP user just bought this Mac Intel product knowing it can dual boot. They want to use XP and they want to experience OS X without buying 2 separate systems.
b. We assume the pre-existing OS X user purchasing this new hardware is purchasing it for OS X. If they want to put another OS on there they can. The odds are minimal as they already enjoy OS X.
c. Game players are a third contingency who are torn between wanting a better OS and being stuck with an OS that plays the games they love. This resolves their frustations by offering them both on one system.
d. Developers get two systems and the latest technologies to develop on. They won't complain since they don't have to buy a separate system for each development platform. Most still will to have more than one system. The cost of a machine is the lowest cost of any development house. The cost to hire a developer is much greater.
Exactly, now their competition will be Dell and other PC makers, not Microsoft. Also, people who were close to switching to Mac now having nothing to lose. If they buy a Mac and don't like OS X they can revert back to XP and still use the Mac. This is brilliant!
Another way to look at it is Apple is competing directly with Windows. Apple does not support Windows and Mac will not ship from Apple with Windows loaded.
Apple cannot compete with Dell. Apple does not compete with Dell prices nor does Apple manufacture, ship, or support the same volume as Dell.
Apple feels so confident and sure that OS X is better than Windows that they will allow you to run in on Apple hardware.
.... Apple does not support Windows and Mac will not ship from Apple with Windows loaded.
Apple will be providing support to a certain extent. Apple is providing drivers needed to run XP. What happens if the next service pack breaks XP on the Mac? Will Microsoft provide support for XP running on a Mac? Also, what about future versions of Windows such as Vista?
yeah, i hate boot camp too. make sure ur disk is sp2, or else, it overwrites your entire disk.. i lost OSX, and couldnt backup everything due to size... Apple stores kinda support you if you mess this up. They just want a chance at seeing thins and learning about Boot Camp. They fixed my crap despite my knowing how to.. They wanted to do it, lol.
yeah, i hate boot camp too. make sure ur disk is sp2, or else, it overwrites your entire disk.. i lost OSX, and couldnt backup everything due to size... Apple stores kinda support you if you mess this up. They just want a chance at seeing thins and learning about Boot Camp. They fixed my crap despite my knowing how to.. They wanted to do it, lol.
That wasn't bootcamp's fault that was your own retarded fault. Read the manual next time, and buy a proper version of windows before you think you can trick the system with sp0 or sp1.
Apple stores kinda support you if you mess this up. They just want a chance at seeing thins and learning about Boot Camp. They fixed my crap despite my knowing how to.. They wanted to do it, lol.
Comments
BUT i want to run both windows AND osx so i can just switch back and forth from this stupid single app that my work requires. so for me virtualization may work better. booting in and out of windows and osx wouldn't be convenient for me. why can't apple due a vpc maybe they had a deal with apple to continue office. hey business liked it apple stock went up 7% and they upped the target price to 105 just a few days ago then lowered the price target.
But that's just my .02 cents...
Originally posted by Anders
And you may ask yourself
How do I work this?
And you may ask yourself
Where is that large automobile?
And you may tell yourself
This is not my beautiful house!
And you may tell yourself
This is not the Mac OS forum!
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
And you may ask yourself
What is that beautiful house?
And you may ask yourself
Where does that highway go?
And you may ask yourself
Am I right?...Am I wrong?
And you may say to yourself
MY GOD!...WHAT HAVE I DONE?
That was AWSOME...Give yourself a raise.
Think of being able to blast disk images of XP from OS X Server to these dual boot systems satisfying some department's needs for XP and others needs for OS X.
It's a viral approach.
Originally posted by iPoster
Hmmm, I think this could very well be the end of cross-platform game and 3rd party app development for OSX! Why bother porting it when "they can just dual boot"??
Because dual booting is a pain in the butt. You have to stop everything you're doing, wait for a few minutes, do that one thing, save it, quit it, reboot again to the other OS, get everything back up and running again...
Nobody is going to put up with that for long. They'll either stick with an all Windows environment (with some of their data sitting on the Mac side now, with no trivial way to migrate it back), or they'll move to the Mac side and stay there except for just the *very* occasional Windows use.
This affects Mac app development almost none at all, IMO. If they had offered a virtualization layer, ala VPC, then yeah, I'd be selling my stock.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Because dual booting is a pain in the butt. You have to stop everything you're doing, wait for a few minutes, do that one thing, save it, quit it, reboot again to the other OS, get everything back up and running again...
Agreed, and I hate turning off my machine, i might have other 'users' set up and running in the background downloading files or whatever and to shut off my mac to boot xp to play a game or run an app isn't going to make me happy.
but i'm loading it tonight anyway...
Originally posted by hmurchison
Unless you get the OEM for XP you're spending quite a nickel for XP. Thus I doubt you have developers that will automatically assume that every Mac users has indeed paid the money for XP and installed it.
NewEgg has it for around $80 iirc. Not too bad.
XP Professional for $140, which is the one everyone really wants.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Because dual booting is a pain in the butt. You have to stop everything you're doing, wait for a few minutes, do that one thing, save it, quit it, reboot again to the other OS, get everything back up and running again...
Nobody is going to put up with that for long. They'll either stick with an all Windows environment (with some of their data sitting on the Mac side now, with no trivial way to migrate it back), or they'll move to the Mac side and stay there except for just the *very* occasional Windows use.
This affects Mac app development almost none at all, IMO. If they had offered a virtualization layer, ala VPC, then yeah, I'd be selling my stock.
I think the point is that dual booting is a pain in the butt for Mac users not cross-platform developers. OS X gaining popularity means cross-platform developers lose money if they don't support it but if Mac users can be encouraged to use XP, they could see an easy way out.
Put it this way. You are a developer with no previous intention to support OS X. You now have some users who have Macs, do you:
a. tell them to boot Windows with an officially supported mechanism for booting Windows
b. modify the software specifically for OS X and have to debug/maintain two sets of software?
Originally posted by Marvin
I think the point is that dual booting is a pain in the butt for Mac users not cross-platform developers. OS X gaining popularity means cross-platform developers lose money if they don't support it but if Mac users can be encouraged to use XP, they could see an easy way out.
Put it this way. You are a developer with no previous intention to support OS X. You now have some users who have Macs, do you:
a. tell them to boot Windows with an officially supported mechanism for booting Windows
b. modify the software specifically for OS X and have to debug/maintain two sets of software?
Where is the logic?
a. We assume the XP user just bought this Mac Intel product knowing it can dual boot. They want to use XP and they want to experience OS X without buying 2 separate systems.
b. We assume the pre-existing OS X user purchasing this new hardware is purchasing it for OS X. If they want to put another OS on there they can. The odds are minimal as they already enjoy OS X.
c. Game players are a third contingency who are torn between wanting a better OS and being stuck with an OS that plays the games they love. This resolves their frustations by offering them both on one system.
d. Developers get two systems and the latest technologies to develop on. They won't complain since they don't have to buy a separate system for each development platform. Most still will to have more than one system. The cost of a machine is the lowest cost of any development house. The cost to hire a developer is much greater.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Probably, but Apple just changed their game plan.
Exactly, now their competition will be Dell and other PC makers, not Microsoft. Also, people who were close to switching to Mac now having nothing to lose. If they buy a Mac and don't like OS X they can revert back to XP and still use the Mac. This is brilliant!
Apple cannot compete with Dell. Apple does not compete with Dell prices nor does Apple manufacture, ship, or support the same volume as Dell.
Apple feels so confident and sure that OS X is better than Windows that they will allow you to run in on Apple hardware.
Why else put OS X in such a vulnerable position.
Originally posted by TenoBell
.... Apple does not support Windows and Mac will not ship from Apple with Windows loaded.
Apple will be providing support to a certain extent. Apple is providing drivers needed to run XP. What happens if the next service pack breaks XP on the Mac? Will Microsoft provide support for XP running on a Mac? Also, what about future versions of Windows such as Vista?
Originally posted by nostyleart
yeah, i hate boot camp too. make sure ur disk is sp2, or else, it overwrites your entire disk.. i lost OSX, and couldnt backup everything due to size... Apple stores kinda support you if you mess this up. They just want a chance at seeing thins and learning about Boot Camp. They fixed my crap despite my knowing how to.. They wanted to do it, lol.
That wasn't bootcamp's fault that was your own retarded fault. Read the manual next time, and buy a proper version of windows before you think you can trick the system with sp0 or sp1.
Originally posted by nostyleart
Apple stores kinda support you if you mess this up. They just want a chance at seeing thins and learning about Boot Camp. They fixed my crap despite my knowing how to.. They wanted to do it, lol.
I´m old.