I don't know how many of you guys have heard the new podcast "This Week in Media", but the guys on that show were prognosticating that we will see a Dual Quad Core Intel Pro Mac at NAB. In other words an 8 proc PowerMac!
They also talked about the $10K Final Cut Extreme, and that the new system would have dual video cards to support it.
If this isn't just pure speculation and we see this system. I will be the first in line to pick up one of these workhorse systems. That's if I can get work to buy me one I should say.
They also talk extensively about the "upcoming" RED camera on the show. As well as the new 1080P camera that has all ready been announced by Silicon Imaging. The only problem with the one from Silicon Imaging is that looks to be geared towards the Windows/Adobe Production Suite crowd.
I don't know how many of you guys have heard the new podcast "This Week in Media", but the guys on that show were prognosticating that we will see a Dual Quad Core Intel Pro Mac at NAB. In other words an 8 proc PowerMac!
They also talked about the $10K Final Cut Extreme, and that the new system would have dual video cards to support it.
If this isn't just pure speculation and we see this system. I will be the first in line to pick up one of these workhorse systems. That's if I can get work to buy me one I should say.
They also talk extensively about the "upcoming" RED camera on the show. As well as the new 1080P camera that has all ready been announced by Silicon Imaging. The only problem with the one from Silicon Imaging is that looks to be geared towards the Windows/Adobe Production Suite crowd.
Well that 8-core PowerMac is something I don't expect to ship until 4-core Kentsfield Processors ship early next year. So I doubt that could be anything more than an extremely advanced prototype and it is not like Apple to demonstrate such a product so far in advance of shipping. I do not believe that Intel will be making 4 socket motherboards for Woodcrest x 4. I really think those guys on that podcast are smoking some wacky tobacy. I would rate this prediction a ZERO Possibility of happening this week.
I do expect it to happen during the January 9, 2007 SteveNote. Perhaps to show off Leopard's distributed processing prowess at WWDC. But not likely there either.
Apparently they didn't post this podcast on their website yet. Weird. I don't want to launch my iTunes and can't find it on their website. Very poor publsihing practice to not put it on the website first.
Well that 8-core PowerMac is something I don't expect to ship until 4-core Kentsfield Processors ship early next year. So I doubt that could be anything more than an extremely advanced prototype and it is not like Apple to demonstrate such a product so far in advance of shipping. I do not believe that Intel will be making 4 socket motherboards for Woodcrest x 4. I really think those guys on that podcast are smoking some wacky tobacy. I would rate this prediction a ZERO Possibility of happening this week.
I do expect it to happen during the January 9, 2007 SteveNote. Perhaps to show off Leopard's distributed processing prowess at WWDC. But not likely there either.
I was kind of thinking the same thing until I read this article: Intel's New Direction
From the article:
Quote:
Apple customers may be the first to enjoy Intel?s new CPU goodies, with the Woodcrest family of processors making it into Macintosh workstations as early as the third quarter. Woodcrest systems will be symmetric multi processing (SMP), with dual processors with up to four cores each. One such machine was demonstrated at IDF, running benchmarks under Windows XP 64-bit edition, showing eight active cores.
I was kind of thinking the same thing until I read this article: Intel's New Direction
From the article:
quote:
Apple customers may be the first to enjoy Intel?s new CPU goodies, with the Woodcrest family of processors making it into Macintosh workstations as early as the third quarter. Woodcrest systems will be symmetric multi processing (SMP), with dual processors with up to four cores each. One such machine was demonstrated at IDF, running benchmarks under Windows XP 64-bit edition, showing eight active cores.
Yes but those 4-Core processors called "Kentsfield" are not planned for produciton until early 2007, G.
Modular and upgradeable, the RED ONE camera is a future-proof acquisition system you can build upon. RED?s modular design means you can upgrade with us as we add new features, accessories and improve system specifications.
Quote:
PIXEL SHIFTING AND UP-REZING NOT SPOKEN HERE.
Typical high-end HD camcorders have 2.1M pixel sensors and record with 3:1:1 color subsampled video at up to 30fps. We deliver 11.4M pixels at up to 60fps and record RAW, or 2x over-sampled HD in 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 ? your choice. That?s more than 5 times the amount of information available every second and a vastly superior recording quality. Don?t need all that data for your workflow? Dial it back, and keep all the other advantages of the Mysterium? Super 35mm cine sized (24.4 x 13.7mm) sensor. You get the same breathtaking Depth of Field and selective focus as found in film cameras. Mysterium? boasts a greater than 66db Signal to Noise Ratio thanks to its large 29 sq. micron pixels. And 11,480,800 pixels deliver resolution that can only be called Ultra High Definition.
Quote:
Initial options will include RED-CAGE for mounting accessories and ?growing? the camera body. Configure for studio pedestal, crane or long lens applications. RED-GUN lets you shoot from the hip, or shoulder like a rifle. Onboard or external high-resolution RED monitors come equipped with advanced tools for framing, exposure and focus. The RED ONE camera has numerous stainless steel mounting points on the body to allow hundreds of optional RED and third party accessories... some that haven?t even been dreamed of yet.
It looks MEAN.
MSRP of $17,500 for RED ONE camera.
Not too shabby at all for Indies. A camera you can truly own!
I'm thinking that Apple had to expend a lot of resources to bring FCS to UB. Kind of lends credence to Adobe's claims that there is much more work that some people assume to move large apps to UB.
Kind of a bummer without having Apple debut new stuff but hell i'm not buying anytime soon so no worries.
I was at the Apple Booth at NAB. Spoke to one of the Apple reps.
He said getting out the Universal versions of the Pro apps was a lot of work. Those basically were the new applications for NAB.
The RED booth was a complete joke. The camera (empty shell) is a horrible design.
There are a lot of smart people all around the world working on digital cinema. None of the traditional camera manufacturers can deliver a 4K camera for $17,000 and make a profit. The actual working camera that comes closest to RED specs is $140,000.
The Arri D-20 is theoretically capable of delivering a 4K and a 6K image. But there is no practical storage or editing solution for all of that data.
I believe that Panny, Canon, Sony or JVC could in fact deliver such camera but they simply don't want to because they sell high end cameras. Why sell a $17k HD camera that competes with your $100k camera?
RED never said they'd have a working prototype at NAB. They've been clear all along about this. I'll have to see some reviews about the shell. Frankly I care more about what it's recording than how the camera looks. Vintage film cameras weren't pulchritudinous themselves by any stretch but filmmakers made hits with them.
I think it's clear that with RED and the other cameras there is indeed a group of pioneers tired of what's coming out of Japan and looking for something more. I applaud and support their effors.
So I wonder if the real FC Studio upgrades will wait for new PowerMacs, or even the new OS? BTW, we are now officially in the post funk period.
Evidently moving FCS to UB wasn't all that easy. However I'm sure Apple will be ready with something no later than September during the IBC show. I guess it's all good let the fast hardware come and then bring in the updates.
I guess Logic Pro 8 will likely wait until either summer NAMM or winter NAMM 2007.
The Arri D-20 is theoretically capable of delivering a 4K and a 6K image. But there is no practical storage or editing solution for all of that data.
Man, the storage you would need for that is crazy. I personally think it will be a long time before people are doing a lot of 4k. It seems to me that people are just starting to go 2k, but I'm more of a bean counter. I only know how to pay for the gear, not decide what to buy or how to use it!
I believe that Panny, Canon, Sony or JVC could in fact deliver such camera but they simply don't want to because they sell high end cameras. Why sell a $17k HD camera that competes with your $100k camera?
RED is not talking about an HD camera they are saying it records uncompressed 4K raw data. Uncompressed HD is already a large amount of data while 4K is about 6 times larger.
No one is able to sell a 4K camera for $17,000 and make a profit at the same time.
The major video companies do not yet offer an uncompressed HD camera to the pro film market yet. Because the camera, the storage, and the workflow are too expensive and too cumbersome to be practical in the real world. RED is offering no explanation about how its system will work in real world production.
Right now the only cost effective way to create true 4K data is to shoot film. The film negative is recorded on a million dollar scanner by high resolution CCD or CMOS scanner. The scanner takes multiple pictures of the negative with red, green, blue, and infrared light.
Quote:
Vintage film cameras weren't pulchritudinous themselves by any stretch but filmmakers made hits with them.
Early film camera designs were limited by the technology of the time. 35mm cameras were huge monstrosities because that was the size they could machine workable parts and partly because they had to use large blimps to dampen the machine noise for recorded sound.
16mm was invented to have a cheaper format with smaller cameras. Technology advanced allowing camera manufacturers to machine smaller parts and create smaller more ergonomic cameras.
Today film cameras are very small and light. The largest parts of the camera are the magazine because of film negative and the lens. Film lens are quite large because they are recording motion. You have to follow a moving object while easily and accurately changing focus, the focus cannot breath causing a zooming effect, you cannot have blinding lens flare, or image apparitions from light bouncing inside the lens barrel.
Quote:
RED never said they'd have a working prototype at NAB.
Even if they did not have a fully working camera. If they at least were able to demonstrate the basic sensor and A/D circuit board were actually able to produce a picture that would have been far more than what they did show.
Showing me a chrome cylinder behind a thick glass case is not enough to get me excited.
Quote:
Frankly I care more about what it's recording than how the camera looks.
I'm not simply talking about its aesthetic design I'm talking about its functionality. How do you actually use that as a camera in the real world? RED was more concerned with its aesthetics and not so concerned about practical needs of the users.
Quote:
I think it's clear that with RED and the other cameras there is indeed a group of pioneers tired of what's coming out of Japan and looking for something more. I applaud and support their effors.
Pioneered what, they don't even have a working product.
They couldn't even answer my basic questions.
Where the hell is the viewfinder?
Where do you mount the recording media?
Where do you plug in an external recording device?
Where are the menu readouts and controls?
What is your solution for recording and storing 4K data?
How is the user going to store and edit 4K data?
There were no clear answers to any of these questions. The message was to hype the machine and not deliver a clearly thought out workflow.
No one is able to sell a 4K camera for $17,000 and make a profit at the same time.
That's not what Red is promising. What they're saying is that you have the ability to "scale" the unit up to your needs. Obviously by the time you assemble the body and necessary pieces to allow for 4k recording you're like to be pushing 50k. Currently right now most cameras are locking you into one sensor, one lens, one recording media.
Teno I do agree with though. Red showed sizzle but little steak. Darren Kelly, a guy that I respect his opinion, mentioned the same type of reservation over on DVINFO. I can't afford Red regardless so I guess I'm a bit apathetic.
It should be interesting to see if this revolution is real or are we just seeing vapor in progress.
What they're saying is that you have the ability to "scale" the unit up to your needs. Obviously by the time you assemble the body and necessary pieces to allow for 4k recording you're like to be pushing 50k. Currently right now most cameras are locking you into one sensor, one lens, one recording media.
RED said nothing in its presentation about scaling up. Everything says for $17,500 you get a 4520X2540 pixel Mysterium Sensor. They are just talking about the ability to add accessories.
All pro video cameras have changeable lenses. The newest pro video cameras generally record several different video formats and codecs and you can record directly to hard drive on all new pro cameras.
Film has always been a variable sensor format. Kodak offers 14 different motion picture film stocks that all have different looks. Kodak continues to improve film performance which allows film cameras to always use the newest sensors.
Comments
They also talked about the $10K Final Cut Extreme, and that the new system would have dual video cards to support it.
If this isn't just pure speculation and we see this system. I will be the first in line to pick up one of these workhorse systems. That's if I can get work to buy me one I should say.
They also talk extensively about the "upcoming" RED camera on the show. As well as the new 1080P camera that has all ready been announced by Silicon Imaging. The only problem with the one from Silicon Imaging is that looks to be geared towards the Windows/Adobe Production Suite crowd.
Originally posted by icfireball
Red makes video cameras not still cameras, correct?
RED's never made any camera before. The forth coming RED camera is suppose to be a pro level video camera.
The company was created by the founder of Oakley sunglasses. He's supposedly a camera nut, and is building the company from the ground up.
"An Interview with Jim Jannard""
Originally posted by G in the S
I don't know how many of you guys have heard the new podcast "This Week in Media", but the guys on that show were prognosticating that we will see a Dual Quad Core Intel Pro Mac at NAB. In other words an 8 proc PowerMac!
They also talked about the $10K Final Cut Extreme, and that the new system would have dual video cards to support it.
If this isn't just pure speculation and we see this system. I will be the first in line to pick up one of these workhorse systems. That's if I can get work to buy me one I should say.
They also talk extensively about the "upcoming" RED camera on the show. As well as the new 1080P camera that has all ready been announced by Silicon Imaging. The only problem with the one from Silicon Imaging is that looks to be geared towards the Windows/Adobe Production Suite crowd.
Well that 8-core PowerMac is something I don't expect to ship until 4-core Kentsfield Processors ship early next year. So I doubt that could be anything more than an extremely advanced prototype and it is not like Apple to demonstrate such a product so far in advance of shipping. I do not believe that Intel will be making 4 socket motherboards for Woodcrest x 4. I really think those guys on that podcast are smoking some wacky tobacy. I would rate this prediction a ZERO Possibility of happening this week.
I do expect it to happen during the January 9, 2007 SteveNote. Perhaps to show off Leopard's distributed processing prowess at WWDC. But not likely there either.
Apparently they didn't post this podcast on their website yet. Weird. I don't want to launch my iTunes and can't find it on their website. Very poor publsihing practice to not put it on the website first.
Originally posted by Multimedia
Well that 8-core PowerMac is something I don't expect to ship until 4-core Kentsfield Processors ship early next year. So I doubt that could be anything more than an extremely advanced prototype and it is not like Apple to demonstrate such a product so far in advance of shipping. I do not believe that Intel will be making 4 socket motherboards for Woodcrest x 4. I really think those guys on that podcast are smoking some wacky tobacy. I would rate this prediction a ZERO Possibility of happening this week.
I do expect it to happen during the January 9, 2007 SteveNote. Perhaps to show off Leopard's distributed processing prowess at WWDC. But not likely there either.
I was kind of thinking the same thing until I read this article: Intel's New Direction
From the article:
Apple customers may be the first to enjoy Intel?s new CPU goodies, with the Woodcrest family of processors making it into Macintosh workstations as early as the third quarter. Woodcrest systems will be symmetric multi processing (SMP), with dual processors with up to four cores each. One such machine was demonstrated at IDF, running benchmarks under Windows XP 64-bit edition, showing eight active cores.
Originally posted by G in the S
I was kind of thinking the same thing until I read this article: Intel's New Direction
From the article:
quote:
Apple customers may be the first to enjoy Intel?s new CPU goodies, with the Woodcrest family of processors making it into Macintosh workstations as early as the third quarter. Woodcrest systems will be symmetric multi processing (SMP), with dual processors with up to four cores each. One such machine was demonstrated at IDF, running benchmarks under Windows XP 64-bit edition, showing eight active cores.
Yes but those 4-Core processors called "Kentsfield" are not planned for produciton until early 2007, G.
http://www.red.com/index2.html
http://www.red.com/products/accessor...ies_cages.html
RED RENDERS OBSOLESCENCE OBSOLETE
Modular and upgradeable, the RED ONE camera is a future-proof acquisition system you can build upon. RED?s modular design means you can upgrade with us as we add new features, accessories and improve system specifications.
PIXEL SHIFTING AND UP-REZING NOT SPOKEN HERE.
Typical high-end HD camcorders have 2.1M pixel sensors and record with 3:1:1 color subsampled video at up to 30fps. We deliver 11.4M pixels at up to 60fps and record RAW, or 2x over-sampled HD in 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 ? your choice. That?s more than 5 times the amount of information available every second and a vastly superior recording quality. Don?t need all that data for your workflow? Dial it back, and keep all the other advantages of the Mysterium? Super 35mm cine sized (24.4 x 13.7mm) sensor. You get the same breathtaking Depth of Field and selective focus as found in film cameras. Mysterium? boasts a greater than 66db Signal to Noise Ratio thanks to its large 29 sq. micron pixels. And 11,480,800 pixels deliver resolution that can only be called Ultra High Definition.
Initial options will include RED-CAGE for mounting accessories and ?growing? the camera body. Configure for studio pedestal, crane or long lens applications. RED-GUN lets you shoot from the hip, or shoulder like a rifle. Onboard or external high-resolution RED monitors come equipped with advanced tools for framing, exposure and focus. The RED ONE camera has numerous stainless steel mounting points on the body to allow hundreds of optional RED and third party accessories... some that haven?t even been dreamed of yet.
It looks MEAN.
MSRP of $17,500 for RED ONE camera.
Not too shabby at all for Indies. A camera you can truly own!
60p support and a new lens adapter round out some of the enhancements.
Originally posted by - J B 7 2 -
Hrmmm. Nothing really from Apple.
Yeah, because the 17" notebook doesn't count.
Originally posted by - J B 7 2 -
Hrmmm. Nothing really from Apple.
I'm thinking that Apple had to expend a lot of resources to bring FCS to UB. Kind of lends credence to Adobe's claims that there is much more work that some people assume to move large apps to UB.
Kind of a bummer without having Apple debut new stuff but hell i'm not buying anytime soon so no worries.
He said getting out the Universal versions of the Pro apps was a lot of work. Those basically were the new applications for NAB.
The RED booth was a complete joke. The camera (empty shell) is a horrible design.
There are a lot of smart people all around the world working on digital cinema. None of the traditional camera manufacturers can deliver a 4K camera for $17,000 and make a profit. The actual working camera that comes closest to RED specs is $140,000.
The Arri D-20 is theoretically capable of delivering a 4K and a 6K image. But there is no practical storage or editing solution for all of that data.
I believe that Panny, Canon, Sony or JVC could in fact deliver such camera but they simply don't want to because they sell high end cameras. Why sell a $17k HD camera that competes with your $100k camera?
RED never said they'd have a working prototype at NAB. They've been clear all along about this. I'll have to see some reviews about the shell. Frankly I care more about what it's recording than how the camera looks. Vintage film cameras weren't pulchritudinous themselves by any stretch but filmmakers made hits with them.
I think it's clear that with RED and the other cameras there is indeed a group of pioneers tired of what's coming out of Japan and looking for something more. I applaud and support their effors.
Originally posted by murk
So I wonder if the real FC Studio upgrades will wait for new PowerMacs, or even the new OS? BTW, we are now officially in the post funk period.
Evidently moving FCS to UB wasn't all that easy. However I'm sure Apple will be ready with something no later than September during the IBC show. I guess it's all good let the fast hardware come and then bring in the updates.
I guess Logic Pro 8 will likely wait until either summer NAMM or winter NAMM 2007.
The Arri D-20 is theoretically capable of delivering a 4K and a 6K image. But there is no practical storage or editing solution for all of that data.
Man, the storage you would need for that is crazy. I personally think it will be a long time before people are doing a lot of 4k. It seems to me that people are just starting to go 2k, but I'm more of a bean counter. I only know how to pay for the gear, not decide what to buy or how to use it!
I believe that Panny, Canon, Sony or JVC could in fact deliver such camera but they simply don't want to because they sell high end cameras. Why sell a $17k HD camera that competes with your $100k camera?
RED is not talking about an HD camera they are saying it records uncompressed 4K raw data. Uncompressed HD is already a large amount of data while 4K is about 6 times larger.
No one is able to sell a 4K camera for $17,000 and make a profit at the same time.
The major video companies do not yet offer an uncompressed HD camera to the pro film market yet. Because the camera, the storage, and the workflow are too expensive and too cumbersome to be practical in the real world. RED is offering no explanation about how its system will work in real world production.
Right now the only cost effective way to create true 4K data is to shoot film. The film negative is recorded on a million dollar scanner by high resolution CCD or CMOS scanner. The scanner takes multiple pictures of the negative with red, green, blue, and infrared light.
Vintage film cameras weren't pulchritudinous themselves by any stretch but filmmakers made hits with them.
Early film camera designs were limited by the technology of the time. 35mm cameras were huge monstrosities because that was the size they could machine workable parts and partly because they had to use large blimps to dampen the machine noise for recorded sound.
16mm was invented to have a cheaper format with smaller cameras. Technology advanced allowing camera manufacturers to machine smaller parts and create smaller more ergonomic cameras.
Today film cameras are very small and light. The largest parts of the camera are the magazine because of film negative and the lens. Film lens are quite large because they are recording motion. You have to follow a moving object while easily and accurately changing focus, the focus cannot breath causing a zooming effect, you cannot have blinding lens flare, or image apparitions from light bouncing inside the lens barrel.
RED never said they'd have a working prototype at NAB.
Even if they did not have a fully working camera. If they at least were able to demonstrate the basic sensor and A/D circuit board were actually able to produce a picture that would have been far more than what they did show.
Showing me a chrome cylinder behind a thick glass case is not enough to get me excited.
Frankly I care more about what it's recording than how the camera looks.
I'm not simply talking about its aesthetic design I'm talking about its functionality. How do you actually use that as a camera in the real world? RED was more concerned with its aesthetics and not so concerned about practical needs of the users.
I think it's clear that with RED and the other cameras there is indeed a group of pioneers tired of what's coming out of Japan and looking for something more. I applaud and support their effors.
Pioneered what, they don't even have a working product.
They couldn't even answer my basic questions.
Where the hell is the viewfinder?
Where do you mount the recording media?
Where do you plug in an external recording device?
Where are the menu readouts and controls?
What is your solution for recording and storing 4K data?
How is the user going to store and edit 4K data?
There were no clear answers to any of these questions. The message was to hype the machine and not deliver a clearly thought out workflow.
No one is able to sell a 4K camera for $17,000 and make a profit at the same time.
That's not what Red is promising. What they're saying is that you have the ability to "scale" the unit up to your needs. Obviously by the time you assemble the body and necessary pieces to allow for 4k recording you're like to be pushing 50k. Currently right now most cameras are locking you into one sensor, one lens, one recording media.
Teno I do agree with though. Red showed sizzle but little steak. Darren Kelly, a guy that I respect his opinion, mentioned the same type of reservation over on DVINFO. I can't afford Red regardless so I guess I'm a bit apathetic.
It should be interesting to see if this revolution is real or are we just seeing vapor in progress.
What they're saying is that you have the ability to "scale" the unit up to your needs. Obviously by the time you assemble the body and necessary pieces to allow for 4k recording you're like to be pushing 50k. Currently right now most cameras are locking you into one sensor, one lens, one recording media.
RED said nothing in its presentation about scaling up. Everything says for $17,500 you get a 4520X2540 pixel Mysterium Sensor. They are just talking about the ability to add accessories.
All pro video cameras have changeable lenses. The newest pro video cameras generally record several different video formats and codecs and you can record directly to hard drive on all new pro cameras.
Film has always been a variable sensor format. Kodak offers 14 different motion picture film stocks that all have different looks. Kodak continues to improve film performance which allows film cameras to always use the newest sensors.