I have been an Apple user since the IIe, and have owned quite a few machines. My earlier models had no problems; indeed, my Mac PLus withostodd abuse that it should not have needed to go through. My recent purchases have been, to puyt it mildly, not so great, as I have writte about at length elsewhere.
Apple has its share of problems, and Apple Japan sucks (different for the Apple Stores in Japan, they are Apple USA. I prefer Apple to anything else, so I will take the risk and continue buying Apple.
Apple says their products just work. I can say from experience (several times with several different models) that that is not always so. I can also say that Apple does not like taking responsibility when a problem does surface. Indeed, they tend to deny there is a problem. Then, when they repair it, the repair does not always improve the situation and often comes back with a different problem. I speak from experience.
Hopefully, Apple will get its act together and produce really good machines and great software at a reasonable price, as well as improve its customer service.
The problems with the MBP sound pathetic, and typically Apple. Slowly change things without ever saying there was a problem and risk tarnishing your image. The MBP seems to be a good machine now, so I would buy one, unless you prefer the still missing super Windblows thing.
my Brother got a MBP and it whined.... took it back they replaced it with one that DIDNT whine.... wheres the issue?
you want a silent computer? why arnt you using the CUBE then?
even my mac mini makes SOME noise.... true you have to glue your head to it to hear it.... but its there... oh maybe i should start a thread about that?
if your intention was to post on a buying choice then post as such... not a THIS PRODUCT IS CRAP statment like you made. a little thought before you post goes a long way.
So, only stupid people prefer a thin laptop over a thick one?
A more factually representative way of saying that would be "So, only stupid people prefer that a laptop should have an underclocked videocard, and STILL have heating problems, along with the lack of a dual-layer DVD burner and a variety of connectivity options, over a full-featured one?"
My MBP is an incredible peice of work. Yes, there's the processor whine, but if you read the RedSweater page it tells you how easy it is to make it go away. The battery life has been similar to my old iBook, and suprisingly, to me, it's cool enough to use unplugged on my lap for light work. It gets toasty when the battery's charging and when you're doing heavy work, but that's what desks are for. Finally, browse around PC manufacturers' website, and try to out-spec a MBP for a lower cost. It's incredible. Even Dell can't match what Apple put into these "overpriced" machines.
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"So, only stupid people prefer that a laptop should have an underclocked videocard, and STILL have heating problems..."
Blah, blah. Size matters. Weight matters. A lot. A lot more than an extra 15% clock on the video card. Or, for 99.9% of people, the ability to burn dual-layer DVDs without an external box. For a laptop, form is function.
Jobs made a caviat to that -- the proc crunches numbers that much faster -- the HDD, and I/O are the hold-ups, it is the same 5400/7200 RPM hdd speed that holds you back...install 10 gigs of ram, and 50 gigs of NVram, and you would go REALLY fast
A more factually representative way of saying that would be "So, only stupid people prefer that a laptop should have an underclocked videocard, and STILL have heating problems, along with the lack of a dual-layer DVD burner and a variety of connectivity options, over a full-featured one?"
Yeah, I think stupid people would.
Yes, I do indeed prefer a thin laptop over one with a high-performance videocard.
I do prefer a think laptop over a cooler one.
I prefer a thin laptop over one with a dual-layer DVD burner.
I prefer a thin laptop over one with lots of ports 90% of which I won't ever need.
And my about-to-be-delivered MBP is quite full-featured for my needs (which aren't exactly low-end), thankyouverymuch.
Jobs made a caviat to that -- the proc crunches numbers that much faster -- the HDD, and I/O are the hold-ups, it is the same 5400/7200 RPM hdd speed that holds you back...install 10 gigs of ram, and 50 gigs of NVram, and you would go REALLY fast
And the thing is, for processor-bound tasks it's almost true. On certain tasks, my 2.0 MBP is about 2.5X faster, core-for-core, than a 1.42 GHz G4 reference machine. It seems almost reasonable to claim the CPU is 5x faster than a 1.67 GHz G4. It really does fly.
Apple needs to learn that "one inch thin" is only a selling point for really stupid people.
On the quantary my toothless friend, a thinner machine brings more of price tag, the higher price means more of chance of weeding out the Wal-Mart buyers, no Wal-Mart users mean less ?Computer for Idiots? books bundled. Thus making the MacPro owner, thinner, richer and smarter. The End.
Yes, I do indeed prefer a thin laptop over one with a high-performance videocard.
I do prefer a thin laptop over a cooler one.
I prefer a thin laptop over one with a dual-layer DVD burner.
I prefer a thin laptop over one with lots of ports 90% of which I won't ever need.
And my about-to-be-delivered MBP is quite full-featured for my needs (which aren't exactly low-end), thankyouverymuch.
But oh, I get it, I'm a stupid person.
It's something like 2-3mm thinner than PB G4?
It was an error because the extra thin super-drive were not available in time. Now they have go OTT about the magic one inch.
Quote:
On the quantary my toothless friend, a thinner machine brings more of price tag, the higher price means more of chance of weeding out the Wal-Mart buyers, no Wal-Mart users mean less ?Computer for Idiots? books bundled. Thus making the MacPro owner, thinner, richer and smarter. The End.
Oh dear. My computer is thinner and more expensive and less popular than your's therefore I'm clever than you? oh dear.
So? The PB G4 was a thin laptop as well. Always has been (even with the Titanium series). If you want a non-thin Apple laptop, look at the pre-white iBooks, or, heck, the PowerBook G3s.
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It was an error because the extra thin super-drive were not available in time.
It was a sacrifice Apple was willing to make, and, as it happens, one I and hundreds of thousands of MBP buyers were/are/will be willing to make as well.
Well, think about what the actual situation is. The Macbook Pro is Apple's professional laptop. It is supposed to fill the bracket for a desktop replacement, or at least a laptop that can perform exceptionally doing CPU and GPU-intensive tasks. However, they have traded performance for appearance (and ease-of-use for you people who have trouble carrying an extra half inch of laptop for some reason - even though it would probably weigh the same). That's the bottom line: they have made a compromise that compromises performance and, really, the dependability of the laptop.
Well, think about what the actual situation is. The Macbook Pro is Apple's professional laptop. It is supposed to fill the bracket for a desktop replacement,
Meep! Apple doesn't sell desktop replacements. They sell desktops or laptops. It's one or the other, for them.
Brands such as Alienware sell desktop replacements, which usually boils down to a machine to heavy, clunky, ugly and badly-engineered that you might as well get, y'know, a desktop.
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or at least a laptop that can perform exceptionally doing CPU and GPU-intensive tasks.
Which is the case. The highest-end Core Duo CPUs are available (I'm sorry, desktop CPUs like the Pentium D or pseudo-laptop CPUs like the Pentium Mobile are simply not interesting for Apple), and the X1600 Mobility is a perfectly fine GPU. I'm not sure what the deal with people complaining about it is anyway; it's a huge leap from the previous 9700 Mobility, which, as I recall, was good enough as well.
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However, they have traded performance for appearance (and ease-of-use for you people who have trouble carrying an extra half inch of laptop for some reason - even though it would probably weigh the same).
Weigh the same? Have you looked at desktop replacement weights lately?
Quote:
That's the bottom line: they have made a compromise that compromises performance and, really, the dependability of the laptop.
Yeah, they did. It's called a laptop.
What do you want? A Pentium D with four SO-DIMM slots, two RAID hard drives, two optical drives, two CrossFire X1900s, perhaps even three different-technology PCMCIA slots (say, PC Card, CardBus, ExpressCard/54)?
It's not gonna happen, and I don't cry a single tear after it. Part of the reason I appreciate Apple's two laptop lines is that I've seen what the competition does have to offer.
No, I want a 1.5-inch-thick laptop that doesn't have to underclock its graphics card and overheat just because everything is crammed together ridiculously. That would be little to no weight increase; it's just giving the components space to breathe.
Comments
Originally posted by Chucker
Shipping, not delivery.
Shipping is when it gets out their factories. Delivery is when it arrives at your doorstep.
Well I meant to say until it ships, but if it did say 'Delivery' it would be even WORSE.
- Xidius
Apple has its share of problems, and Apple Japan sucks (different for the Apple Stores in Japan, they are Apple USA. I prefer Apple to anything else, so I will take the risk and continue buying Apple.
Apple says their products just work. I can say from experience (several times with several different models) that that is not always so. I can also say that Apple does not like taking responsibility when a problem does surface. Indeed, they tend to deny there is a problem. Then, when they repair it, the repair does not always improve the situation and often comes back with a different problem. I speak from experience.
Hopefully, Apple will get its act together and produce really good machines and great software at a reasonable price, as well as improve its customer service.
The problems with the MBP sound pathetic, and typically Apple. Slowly change things without ever saying there was a problem and risk tarnishing your image. The MBP seems to be a good machine now, so I would buy one, unless you prefer the still missing super Windblows thing.
my Brother got a MBP and it whined.... took it back they replaced it with one that DIDNT whine.... wheres the issue?
you want a silent computer? why arnt you using the CUBE then?
even my mac mini makes SOME noise.... true you have to glue your head to it to hear it.... but its there... oh maybe i should start a thread about that?
if your intention was to post on a buying choice then post as such... not a THIS PRODUCT IS CRAP statment like you made. a little thought before you post goes a long way.
R
Originally posted by Placebo
Apple needs to learn that "one inch thin" is only a selling point for really stupid people.
I must be really stupid then.
Originally posted by Placebo
Apple needs to learn that "one inch thin" is only a selling point for really stupid people.
So, only stupid people prefer a thin laptop over a thick one?
Originally posted by Chucker
So, only stupid people prefer a thin laptop over a thick one?
A more factually representative way of saying that would be "So, only stupid people prefer that a laptop should have an underclocked videocard, and STILL have heating problems, along with the lack of a dual-layer DVD burner and a variety of connectivity options, over a full-featured one?"
Yeah, I think stupid people would.
"So, only stupid people prefer that a laptop should have an underclocked videocard, and STILL have heating problems..."
Blah, blah. Size matters. Weight matters. A lot. A lot more than an extra 15% clock on the video card. Or, for 99.9% of people, the ability to burn dual-layer DVDs without an external box. For a laptop, form is function.
Originally posted by netdog
And who can forget, "five times faster..."
Jobs made a caviat to that -- the proc crunches numbers that much faster -- the HDD, and I/O are the hold-ups, it is the same 5400/7200 RPM hdd speed that holds you back...install 10 gigs of ram, and 50 gigs of NVram, and you would go REALLY fast
Originally posted by Placebo
A more factually representative way of saying that would be "So, only stupid people prefer that a laptop should have an underclocked videocard, and STILL have heating problems, along with the lack of a dual-layer DVD burner and a variety of connectivity options, over a full-featured one?"
Yeah, I think stupid people would.
Yes, I do indeed prefer a thin laptop over one with a high-performance videocard.
I do prefer a think laptop over a cooler one.
I prefer a thin laptop over one with a dual-layer DVD burner.
I prefer a thin laptop over one with lots of ports 90% of which I won't ever need.
And my about-to-be-delivered MBP is quite full-featured for my needs (which aren't exactly low-end), thankyouverymuch.
But oh, I get it, I'm a stupid person.
Originally posted by Chucker
Yes, I do indeed prefer a thin laptop over one with a high-performance videocard.
I do prefer a think laptop over a cooler one.
I prefer a thin laptop over one with a dual-layer DVD burner.
I prefer a thin laptop over one with lots of ports 90% of which I won't ever need.
And my about-to-be-delivered MBP is quite full-featured for my needs (which aren't exactly low-end), thankyouverymuch.
But oh, I get it, I'm a stupid person.
Dunt mes wit Placebo. Hee smaht.
Originally posted by a_greer
Jobs made a caviat to that -- the proc crunches numbers that much faster -- the HDD, and I/O are the hold-ups, it is the same 5400/7200 RPM hdd speed that holds you back...install 10 gigs of ram, and 50 gigs of NVram, and you would go REALLY fast
And the thing is, for processor-bound tasks it's almost true. On certain tasks, my 2.0 MBP is about 2.5X faster, core-for-core, than a 1.42 GHz G4 reference machine. It seems almost reasonable to claim the CPU is 5x faster than a 1.67 GHz G4. It really does fly.
Originally posted by Chucker
I prefer a thin laptop over one with a dual-layer DVD burner.
There's always the 17" MBP (it has a DL Superdrive), but it's more expensive.
Originally posted by Placebo
Apple needs to learn that "one inch thin" is only a selling point for really stupid people.
On the quantary my toothless friend, a thinner machine brings more of price tag, the higher price means more of chance of weeding out the Wal-Mart buyers, no Wal-Mart users mean less ?Computer for Idiots? books bundled. Thus making the MacPro owner, thinner, richer and smarter. The End.
Originally posted by Chucker
Yes, I do indeed prefer a thin laptop over one with a high-performance videocard.
I do prefer a thin laptop over a cooler one.
I prefer a thin laptop over one with a dual-layer DVD burner.
I prefer a thin laptop over one with lots of ports 90% of which I won't ever need.
And my about-to-be-delivered MBP is quite full-featured for my needs (which aren't exactly low-end), thankyouverymuch.
But oh, I get it, I'm a stupid person.
It's something like 2-3mm thinner than PB G4?
It was an error because the extra thin super-drive were not available in time. Now they have go OTT about the magic one inch.
On the quantary my toothless friend, a thinner machine brings more of price tag, the higher price means more of chance of weeding out the Wal-Mart buyers, no Wal-Mart users mean less ?Computer for Idiots? books bundled. Thus making the MacPro owner, thinner, richer and smarter. The End.
Oh dear. My computer is thinner and more expensive and less popular than your's therefore I'm clever than you? oh dear.
Originally posted by OfficerDigby
It's something like 2-3mm thinner than PB G4?
So? The PB G4 was a thin laptop as well. Always has been (even with the Titanium series). If you want a non-thin Apple laptop, look at the pre-white iBooks, or, heck, the PowerBook G3s.
It was an error because the extra thin super-drive were not available in time.
It was a sacrifice Apple was willing to make, and, as it happens, one I and hundreds of thousands of MBP buyers were/are/will be willing to make as well.
Originally posted by Placebo
Well, think about what the actual situation is. The Macbook Pro is Apple's professional laptop. It is supposed to fill the bracket for a desktop replacement,
Meep! Apple doesn't sell desktop replacements. They sell desktops or laptops. It's one or the other, for them.
Brands such as Alienware sell desktop replacements, which usually boils down to a machine to heavy, clunky, ugly and badly-engineered that you might as well get, y'know, a desktop.
or at least a laptop that can perform exceptionally doing CPU and GPU-intensive tasks.
Which is the case. The highest-end Core Duo CPUs are available (I'm sorry, desktop CPUs like the Pentium D or pseudo-laptop CPUs like the Pentium Mobile are simply not interesting for Apple), and the X1600 Mobility is a perfectly fine GPU. I'm not sure what the deal with people complaining about it is anyway; it's a huge leap from the previous 9700 Mobility, which, as I recall, was good enough as well.
However, they have traded performance for appearance (and ease-of-use for you people who have trouble carrying an extra half inch of laptop for some reason - even though it would probably weigh the same).
Weigh the same? Have you looked at desktop replacement weights lately?
That's the bottom line: they have made a compromise that compromises performance and, really, the dependability of the laptop.
Yeah, they did. It's called a laptop.
What do you want? A Pentium D with four SO-DIMM slots, two RAID hard drives, two optical drives, two CrossFire X1900s, perhaps even three different-technology PCMCIA slots (say, PC Card, CardBus, ExpressCard/54)?
It's not gonna happen, and I don't cry a single tear after it. Part of the reason I appreciate Apple's two laptop lines is that I've seen what the competition does have to offer.