No, I want a 1.5-inch-thick laptop that doesn't have to underclock its graphics card and overheat just because everything is crammed together ridiculously. That would be little to no weight increase; it's just giving the components space to breathe.
It is all marketing; 1 inch thin looks a whole lot better than "1.5 in thin" to the Joe Id-10-t consumer class...The marketing dept probably dictated this, not teh engineers...
I know that the people who buy MBPs/PBs are a tech-savvy class of people, who would appreciate a non-underclocked gpu, but the marketing gurus demand the pretty pic for Time mag...and guess who wins in coprate America...
This whole underclocking for thin-ness thing sounds like a dilbert cartoon to me
All that said, and OS X not withstanding; would I still take the MBP over the comparably speced and priced DeLL? HELL YES...why? it doesnt look like a pile of crud...they have HARDWARE DESIGNERS that acctually design nice looking stuff...Dell just wraps the components in the cheapest plastic availible at the moment and calls it a day.
Netdog: I think the thread you meant to start was "I hear the MacBook Pro has some problems. I don't think a $2,000 laptop ought to have problems", or something to that effect. Basically wondering about Apple build quality.
That is a different idea than "MPBs are overpriced", which generally is about feature sets/performance vs. the industry. Or maybe your idea is that Apple should catalogue whatever problems crop up on a new model and discount that model accordingly? "We've noticed our new computers are sort of fucked-up, so we're going to sell them for less! It's a win-win!" Not really how it works, generally.
Placebo: I agree that Apple can be maddeningly single-minded about form factors, to the detriment of functionality.
For my money the most egregious current example is the Mini, which if it was just a little bit bigger would allow for full sized HDs, meaning reduced component costs and faster drives. I think that's just a case of Jobs saying "make it smaller" without much consideration of tradeoffs. Personally, I can't see where a 7" square Mini loses any appeal, especially if it gains performance.
Still, laptops are kinda a different animal, since size really is a big deal for a lot of buyers.
Personally, I would be OK with a 1.1", maybe 1.2" MBP (assuming that yielded tangible benefits), but not 1.5", which is a level of discernment that I would never apply to a desktop.
Shaving millimeters on a laptop is a feature, not an affectation.
Just to make it clear: I would love to have a Macbook Pro. But right now I'll wait for rev. 2. Hopefully Apple will clear the heating issues up and allow for the full graphics clock.
I am still hoping the iBook will be quieter and plenty fast enought. My old G3 iBook was great, while my brother's 17" Titanium was always being repaired.
I am still hoping the iBook will be quieter and plenty fast enought. My old G3 iBook was great, while my brother's 17" Titanium was always being repaired.
Ooooohh... He has one of those impossibly rare 17" Titaniums, huh?
apple needs to get hit with another class action suite.
sorry peeps i just had to say it.
even though i love my MBP i should not have to deal with this damn whine. so what if the widget trick works? goddamn i paid a lot for this thing... those of you who claim people are just being nitpicky take one into the library and see for yourself.
if apple cant fix the whine at least give us the CPU level usage option back to us so we can turn the cpu throttle off and on.
Yep, and I would be willing to bet that at the office, he has a 23 inch iMacHD
Maybe it was aluminum. I don't know. You guys are weird. All I know is it dented when you breathed on it, the screen broke, the hard drive went haywire a number of times, and it was always in the shop. I thought it was one of the Titaniums. It's possible I was wrong about that. It was definitely 17", metal and super thin. What's your problem?
apple needs to get hit with another class action suite.
sorry peeps i just had to say it.
even though i love my MBP i should not have to deal with this damn whine. so what if the widget trick works? goddamn i paid a lot for this thing... those of you who claim people are just being nitpicky take one into the library and see for yourself.
if apple cant fix the whine at least give us the CPU level usage option back to us so we can turn the cpu throttle off and on.
I tend to agree, but the end-user doesn't really benefit and Apple doesn't seem to care that they get sued every so often.
"It just works." Sounds like false advertising to me.
They should make products that just work. If anything needs to be replaced, fixed or what have you within a year of purchase under normal use, the product is poorly made. Period.
I have said this before on another thread, but I have bought many electronics products over the years and everything has worked fine for many years, except the computers I bought from Apple. Sony, Audio-Technica, Toshiba, Panasonic, Hitachi, Buffalo, Iomega all work fine, right out of the box, and keep working for years. With Apple, I have had several DOAs, several replaced machines, many repairs. Why is their quality control so low?
I agree the MBP runs very hot and the battery life is a bit short, but I guess that's what were going to get with a full Core Duo machine rather than a system with a very down-clocked ULV chip. I get roughly the same battery life with less powerful notebooks, though not so much heat.
I would really like a ULV-based unit, I really would love it if there was one offered for the rumored 13.3" units. I don't expect one though, I am hoping.
I am NOT experiencing any problems with fan noise though, I wish I could turn the fans up a bit so the MBP is more human friendly. My unit is practically silent though, I can only feel the hum. Anyone that does have a hum should get the system fixed as it sounds like a faulty fan installation or problem with the fan itself.
Meep! Apple doesn't sell desktop replacements. They sell desktops or laptops. It's one or the other, for them.
The MacBook Pro, and some of its predecessors, are not laptops. Apple hides it toward the back of the manual, but they do specifically say not to use them on any soft surface, including laps, or it might cause injury. I'd think a product in which the user generally would put them on their lap that they'd have better fail-safes or adequate warnings against such.
So really, based on the power of these units, Apple is really selling a very sleek, light, more portable, desktop replacement.
The MacBook Pro, and some of its predecessors, are not laptops.
Oy.
Quote:
Apple hides it toward the back of the manual, but they do specifically say not to use them on any soft surface, including laps, or it might cause injury.
Oh come on. That's just typical anti-lawsuit talk. You can definitely use a MacBook Pro on your lap without injuries, and without losing fertility. Not for 20 hours straight, perhaps, but that's kind of besides the point.
If you're truly worried, get an iLap; it's a lot more ergonomic that way anyway.
You can definitely use a MacBook Pro on your lap without injuries, and without losing fertility. Not for 20 hours straight, perhaps, but that's kind of besides the point.
No, as in after twenty minutes, it gets way too hot in my opinion. The MBP is supposedly allowed to get up to 128F, which is unacceptably hot for a sustained exposure in my opinion. Probably wouldn't cause a burn but still very uncomfortable. I've owned noptebook computers that I could have on my lap for hours at a time without getting nearly so hot.
Using an iLap for this reason would be effectively an admission that it's not really a laptop.
No, as in after twenty minutes, it gets way too hot in my opinion. The MBP is supposedly allowed to get up to 128F, which is unacceptably hot for a sustained exposure in my opinion. Probably wouldn't cause a burn but still very uncomfortable. I've owned noptebook computers that I could have on my lap for hours at a time without getting nearly so hot.
Using an iLap for this reason would be effectively an admission that it's not really a laptop.
That would be the ultimate if they (Jobs) had traded fan noise and cooling for the functionality of laptop use.
It would put 2mm thinner for a vapourware DL superdrive into a distant second.
As for the whole "price" thing.. laptops of any brand have always seemed to expensive for me. It's like these companies make their specs different for every brand so you can't compare prices accurately.
My advice for my clients (when I used to pick out computers for people) as far as laptops was always to buy the one that had what you needed at the price you wanted to pay.
One of my clients got a Dell, and complained it wasn't as good as a mac. When I told her the mac cost 80% more, she jokingly moaned "that's not fair."
As for the whole "price" thing.. laptops of any brand have always seemed to expensive for me. It's like these companies make their specs different for every brand so you can't compare prices accurately.
I've never really had much of a problem with comparing different brands on the hardware level. Software is a bit of a different issue, other than what Apple includes, I wouldn't use the included software other than the OS.
Mobile computers are probably always going to be more expensive than a desktop equivalent of the same system. While desktops use more materials, the cost of the basic materials is actually the least significant cost of making a computer. With a desktop, size, weight, heat and power consumption usually aren't an issue for most buyers, all of those change with a mobile computer and it is more expensive to make powerful, yet power efficient components with a greater precision than is needed for a desktop.
Comments
Originally posted by Placebo
No, I want a 1.5-inch-thick laptop that doesn't have to underclock its graphics card and overheat just because everything is crammed together ridiculously. That would be little to no weight increase; it's just giving the components space to breathe.
It is all marketing; 1 inch thin looks a whole lot better than "1.5 in thin" to the Joe Id-10-t consumer class...The marketing dept probably dictated this, not teh engineers...
I know that the people who buy MBPs/PBs are a tech-savvy class of people, who would appreciate a non-underclocked gpu, but the marketing gurus demand the pretty pic for Time mag...and guess who wins in coprate America...
This whole underclocking for thin-ness thing sounds like a dilbert cartoon to me
All that said, and OS X not withstanding; would I still take the MBP over the comparably speced and priced DeLL? HELL YES...why? it doesnt look like a pile of crud...they have HARDWARE DESIGNERS that acctually design nice looking stuff...Dell just wraps the components in the cheapest plastic availible at the moment and calls it a day.
Originally posted by netdog
- were not being fixed by Apple, who was telling people there wasn't a problem
AAPL has a HUGE target on its back in the PC industry right now; if that were true, there would already be a class-action suit...
That is a different idea than "MPBs are overpriced", which generally is about feature sets/performance vs. the industry. Or maybe your idea is that Apple should catalogue whatever problems crop up on a new model and discount that model accordingly? "We've noticed our new computers are sort of fucked-up, so we're going to sell them for less! It's a win-win!" Not really how it works, generally.
Placebo: I agree that Apple can be maddeningly single-minded about form factors, to the detriment of functionality.
For my money the most egregious current example is the Mini, which if it was just a little bit bigger would allow for full sized HDs, meaning reduced component costs and faster drives. I think that's just a case of Jobs saying "make it smaller" without much consideration of tradeoffs. Personally, I can't see where a 7" square Mini loses any appeal, especially if it gains performance.
Still, laptops are kinda a different animal, since size really is a big deal for a lot of buyers.
Personally, I would be OK with a 1.1", maybe 1.2" MBP (assuming that yielded tangible benefits), but not 1.5", which is a level of discernment that I would never apply to a desktop.
Shaving millimeters on a laptop is a feature, not an affectation.
Originally posted by netdog
I am still hoping the iBook will be quieter and plenty fast enought. My old G3 iBook was great, while my brother's 17" Titanium was always being repaired.
Ooooohh... He has one of those impossibly rare 17" Titaniums, huh?
:P
- Xidius
Originally posted by >_>
Ooooohh... He has one of those impossibly rare 17" Titaniums, huh?
:P
- Xidius
Yep, and I would be willing to bet that at the office, he has a 23 inch iMacHD
sorry peeps i just had to say it.
even though i love my MBP i should not have to deal with this damn whine. so what if the widget trick works? goddamn i paid a lot for this thing... those of you who claim people are just being nitpicky take one into the library and see for yourself.
if apple cant fix the whine at least give us the CPU level usage option back to us so we can turn the cpu throttle off and on.
Originally posted by a_greer
Yep, and I would be willing to bet that at the office, he has a 23 inch iMacHD
Maybe it was aluminum. I don't know. You guys are weird. All I know is it dented when you breathed on it, the screen broke, the hard drive went haywire a number of times, and it was always in the shop. I thought it was one of the Titaniums. It's possible I was wrong about that. It was definitely 17", metal and super thin. What's your problem?
Originally posted by Elixir
apple needs to get hit with another class action suite.
sorry peeps i just had to say it.
even though i love my MBP i should not have to deal with this damn whine. so what if the widget trick works? goddamn i paid a lot for this thing... those of you who claim people are just being nitpicky take one into the library and see for yourself.
if apple cant fix the whine at least give us the CPU level usage option back to us so we can turn the cpu throttle off and on.
I tend to agree, but the end-user doesn't really benefit and Apple doesn't seem to care that they get sued every so often.
"It just works." Sounds like false advertising to me.
They should make products that just work. If anything needs to be replaced, fixed or what have you within a year of purchase under normal use, the product is poorly made. Period.
I have said this before on another thread, but I have bought many electronics products over the years and everything has worked fine for many years, except the computers I bought from Apple. Sony, Audio-Technica, Toshiba, Panasonic, Hitachi, Buffalo, Iomega all work fine, right out of the box, and keep working for years. With Apple, I have had several DOAs, several replaced machines, many repairs. Why is their quality control so low?
I would really like a ULV-based unit, I really would love it if there was one offered for the rumored 13.3" units. I don't expect one though, I am hoping.
I am NOT experiencing any problems with fan noise though, I wish I could turn the fans up a bit so the MBP is more human friendly. My unit is practically silent though, I can only feel the hum. Anyone that does have a hum should get the system fixed as it sounds like a faulty fan installation or problem with the fan itself.
Originally posted by Chucker
Meep! Apple doesn't sell desktop replacements. They sell desktops or laptops. It's one or the other, for them.
The MacBook Pro, and some of its predecessors, are not laptops. Apple hides it toward the back of the manual, but they do specifically say not to use them on any soft surface, including laps, or it might cause injury. I'd think a product in which the user generally would put them on their lap that they'd have better fail-safes or adequate warnings against such.
So really, based on the power of these units, Apple is really selling a very sleek, light, more portable, desktop replacement.
Originally posted by JeffDM
The MacBook Pro, and some of its predecessors, are not laptops.
Oy.
Apple hides it toward the back of the manual, but they do specifically say not to use them on any soft surface, including laps, or it might cause injury.
Oh come on. That's just typical anti-lawsuit talk. You can definitely use a MacBook Pro on your lap without injuries, and without losing fertility. Not for 20 hours straight, perhaps, but that's kind of besides the point.
If you're truly worried, get an iLap; it's a lot more ergonomic that way anyway.
Originally posted by Chucker
You can definitely use a MacBook Pro on your lap without injuries, and without losing fertility. Not for 20 hours straight, perhaps, but that's kind of besides the point.
No, as in after twenty minutes, it gets way too hot in my opinion. The MBP is supposedly allowed to get up to 128F, which is unacceptably hot for a sustained exposure in my opinion. Probably wouldn't cause a burn but still very uncomfortable. I've owned noptebook computers that I could have on my lap for hours at a time without getting nearly so hot.
Using an iLap for this reason would be effectively an admission that it's not really a laptop.
Originally posted by JeffDM
No, as in after twenty minutes, it gets way too hot in my opinion. The MBP is supposedly allowed to get up to 128F, which is unacceptably hot for a sustained exposure in my opinion. Probably wouldn't cause a burn but still very uncomfortable. I've owned noptebook computers that I could have on my lap for hours at a time without getting nearly so hot.
Using an iLap for this reason would be effectively an admission that it's not really a laptop.
That would be the ultimate if they (Jobs) had traded fan noise and cooling for the functionality of laptop use.
It would put 2mm thinner for a vapourware DL superdrive into a distant second.
Still I'd probably buy one so..
Originally posted by StealthRider
Troll. You posted this on MacRumors too.
pwnt
As for the whole "price" thing.. laptops of any brand have always seemed to expensive for me. It's like these companies make their specs different for every brand so you can't compare prices accurately.
My advice for my clients (when I used to pick out computers for people) as far as laptops was always to buy the one that had what you needed at the price you wanted to pay.
One of my clients got a Dell, and complained it wasn't as good as a mac. When I told her the mac cost 80% more, she jokingly moaned "that's not fair."
And it never is
Originally posted by slughead
pwnt
As for the whole "price" thing.. laptops of any brand have always seemed to expensive for me. It's like these companies make their specs different for every brand so you can't compare prices accurately.
I've never really had much of a problem with comparing different brands on the hardware level. Software is a bit of a different issue, other than what Apple includes, I wouldn't use the included software other than the OS.
Mobile computers are probably always going to be more expensive than a desktop equivalent of the same system. While desktops use more materials, the cost of the basic materials is actually the least significant cost of making a computer. With a desktop, size, weight, heat and power consumption usually aren't an issue for most buyers, all of those change with a mobile computer and it is more expensive to make powerful, yet power efficient components with a greater precision than is needed for a desktop.