Ok agreed, one challenge would be to make the two hinges sturdy enough and the shut lines when its closed small enough for it to be acceptable for an Apple product. Plus a lot the hinges on flip phones weaken over time.
Looking at the video again, the hinges used would cause a problem when trying to make a spring mechanism, as there are two hinges on either end of the phone, so the unfolding would have to be in two stages, and would need smaller parts. These are more expensive etc.
However we've seen how good Apple is at making mechanical parts (the previous iMacs swinging arm) so if anyone could pull it off, I guess it's Apple.
Having said this, if Apple were to make a phone, they might just opt for no mechanical parts whatsoever, no buttons etc, just a screen taking up one side with touch screen controls. To me that would be the most elegant and innovative solution. The trouble would be making the touch sensitivity durable. To me that would be an engineering challenge worth pursuing.
Makes sense no? Apple likes to take things in new directions, this would be new, not just an adaption of previous designs.
I am not sure that I would point to current mobile manufacturers' work as evidence of what works and what doesn't. Most mobile phones are crap. Nobody had made a StarTac until Motorola did so.
Oh please
are there ANY posts of your, netdog, which don't reek of arrogance?
It's tiring reading threads which *could* be cool, only to see you subtly, or not-so-subtly, belittle anyone who debates with you.
I feel your posts lower the rather high IQ of AI.
ps: sorry, mods, if this post is out of context with the rules of AI.
pps: IMHO, that phone is an ergonomic nightmare. It just looks cool. I have a pretty good sense of proprioception/ergonomics...and I just can't imagine holding that phone, with what..2 fingers?...while the top & bottom parts "elegantly" fold out
I don't know about you, but I couldn't have been much more disappointed than I was in the Motorola iTunes phone. Then again, even though I used a Motorola know, I have to admit that the interface is just awful, so Moto probably wasn't the best choice to add even more functionality to phones that don't even operate smoothly in the first place Fortunately, I just use my Razr to dial friends and take calls, and couldn't care less about all the whistles. To me, it's just a phone, albeit one with a lovely form and a terrible keypad that I suffer gladly.
Admittedly, I like innovative design as long as it works well, even at times if it does not add any real functionality, so long as it doesn't make something less usable. Then again, that is a bias that I share with many. A true early adopter, I guess, which has left me with more than my fair share of new tech toys that didn't work too well, like my Duo 210 and my first Denon CD player. I am even one of those who wants the next iBook to be a tablet, something that raises the hackles of many, but unlike the tablets available that people point to, I want one that really works, with a great OS adaptation and handwriting recognition that hums. In essence, I want a tablet made by people who have thoroughly rethought the tablet, just like the folks at Xerox Parc did with the computer.
Agreed about the hinges. This phone is full of challenges, and given the chips it would require, along with the disk, I am not even sure that it all could be crammed into this phone, certainly if it is to meet radiation regulations. LOL
Still, I think that there are a lot of people that would love this phone, just as there are many who lust after the Mercedes 300SL Gullwing. Was that practical? Mmmm. Did the doors hold up? Ask anyone who owns one. Are they great? All in the eye of the beholder, and I do love them. Then again, try opening the door on a Ford GT40 in a parking lot. You will need two spaces or remain a prisoner in your car. Still, at the dealer near me in St. John's Wood, they get them in from time to time, and they leave the lot quite quickly at a substantial premium. This phone isn't Falling Water, where I could well imagine curling up for a weekend with a great book or three, but it sure makes me more excited than the Slivr, and excites something in me that triggers that elusive emotion we call desire.
Count me amongst the unwashed inelegant masses. It sure looks nice floating in air, but I try just imagining having to answer the thing. Not. Gonna. Happen.
are there ANY posts of your, netdog, which don't reek of arrogance?
It's tiring reading threads which *could* be cool, only to see you subtly, or not-so-subtly, belittle anyone who debates with you.
I feel your posts lower the rather high IQ of AI.
ps: sorry, mods, if this post is out of context with the rules of AI.
pps: IMHO, that phone is an ergonomic nightmare. It just looks cool. I have a pretty good sense of proprioception/ergonomics...and I just can't imagine holding that phone, with what..2 fingers?...while the top & bottom parts "elegantly" fold out
Thumb and two fingers. The magic of the opposable digit.
You can't please all the people all of the time.
FWIW, no, I had nothing to do with this mockup. I just posted it here because I like it. I am surprised that so few others seem to. Oh well.
Gentlemen. . . I know that the Nano is thin and all, but this design is impossible for the time being, and perhaps the next decade. Displays just aren't that thin yet, and there are problems with using metal enclosures for radio devices. It would need to be constructed of some sort of non-conductive metallic glass in order to be feasible. As it is, Motorola sank a buttload of money into the keypad design of the Razr, let alone the whole thing.
Let's revist this concept when electronic ink displays are in the mainstream. Metallic glass already exists, but I'm not sure it's usable in commodity products yet (i.e. manufacturability), nor am I sure if at this stage it's the full-blown, amorphorous non-conducting material that it needs to be.
Gentlemen. . . I know that the Nano is thin and all, but this design is impossible for the time being, and perhaps the next decade. Displays just aren't that thin yet, and there are problems with using metal enclosures for radio devices. It would need to be constructed of some sort of non-conductive metallic glass in order to be feasible. As it is, Motorola sank a buttload of money into the keypad design of the Razr, let alone the whole thing.
Let's revist this concept when electronic ink displays are in the mainstream. Metallic glass already exists, but I'm not sure it's usable in commodity products yet, nor am I sure if at this stage it's the full-blown, amorphorous non-conducting material that it needs to be.
Agreed. Not having the expertise in electrical engineering nor knowledge about the restrictions around radio devices, these are the obstacles that I suspect render the issue essentially moot. Sad but true.
I've watched that video several times now and I can't agree with this being anywhere near viable or elegant. It's certainly not something you'd blindly pick up and open without it hitting the space between your thumb and index finger. It also seems a precarious way to hold an expensive device while it opens.
All-in-all I'd say it looks cool but definitely not Apple-ish. Each end would need to be *double hinged* to even make that unfolding physically possible. I'd be pretty skeptical of the overall strength of it considering all the tiny parts required just to make it open.
I'd hope that any real Apple solution would have a more simple elegance to it than that "Optimus Prime" transformer gadget.
Gentlemen. . . I know that the Nano is thin and all, but this design is impossible for the time being, and perhaps the next decade. Displays just aren't that thin yet, and there are problems with using metal enclosures for radio devices. It would need to be constructed of some sort of non-conductive metallic glass in order to be feasible. As it is, Motorola sank a buttload of money into the keypad design of the Razr, let alone the whole thing.
Let's revist this concept when electronic ink displays are in the mainstream. Metallic glass already exists, but I'm not sure it's usable in commodity products yet, nor am I sure if at this stage it's the full-blown, amorphorous non-conducting material that it needs to be.
Take the RAZR as an example. The RAZR is thin, hence the name. Have another look at the mockup. Yeah, so the inside screen may be a tad to large to be feasible, but metal would surely not be a problem. The RAZR's made of metal isn't it (at least the keypad)? I think that the technology is available to do this. The RAZR's only 13.9mm thin. That's almost nothing: like 0.2mm thicker than two iPod nanos on top of each other (two iPod nanos = 13.72mm). I don't even think that battery life would be that much of a problem. Most of the electronics would probably have to be in the flip-out bit though, to accomodate the screen and battery in the other section.
Take the RAZR as an example. The RAZR is thin, hence the name. Have another look at the mockup. Yeah, so the inside screen may be a tad to large to be feasible, but metal would surely not be a problem. The RAZR's made of metal isn't it (at least the keypad)? I think that the technology is available to do this. The RAZR's only 13.9mm thin. That's almost nothing: like 0.2mm thicker than two iPod nanos on top of each other (two iPod nanos = 13.72mm). I don't even think that battery life would be that much of a problem. Most of the electronics would probably have to be in the flip-out bit though, to accomodate the screen and battery in the other section.
I currently own my third Razr. First two froze, and the reception is positively terrible.
The look is nice enough but the build quality, is surprisingly bad. (seen as a lot of people seem to think it's the best phone ever)\
I currently own my third Razr. First two froze, and the reception is positively terrible.
The look is nice enough but the build quality, is surprisingly bad. (seen as a lot of people seem to think it's the best phone ever)\
While I am not happy with Motorola's software, I have to say that my Razr, bought when they first came out, has been (over)used and abused and has had absolutely no problems. Nor have the Razrs that belong to any of my friends. I can't agree that the build quality is bad, nor that the reception is "positively terrible." It does not have the reception of some of the larger thicker phones, but its reception is comparable to the other smaller phones in use by people I know. I think that perhaps you have just had some bad luck.
Relevant Apple content: I wish that this thing would sync up with Entourage, not that Motorola's directory is any good at all.
Take the RAZR as an example. . . but metal would surely not be a problem. . .
I don't mean to sound petulant, but you're wrong. At 900MHz (roughly the frequency of 2G cellular) a metal enclosure of such dimensions will cause all sorts of interferrence problems, even if there is an aperture for the antenna. At 1.8GHz there's a little bit more freedom, but the wavelength is still about 17cm, and you'll want to limit the amount of reflective materials (i.e. metal surfaces) in the enclosure as much as possible. The Razr gets away with it since the keypad isn't near the antenna, and it's also not generally in the path of the transmission.
Wouldn't you answer by tapping something on our bluetooth headset? I can only see closing the thing to stick in a pocket or purse and opening it for watching movies/tv shows and dialing a number manually.
Most issues might be solved by placing the click wheel below the small screen when closed. Its not like you can use it easily when it's fully opened anyway. The camera is also on the wrong side...for video chat.
Still though...the double hinge is inelegant from a usability standpoint. The only advantage is to provide better protection of the screen when the display isn't desired.
That could be done with a hinge along the long end which would also give you the ability to prop the display up at a reasonable viewing angle. Put the "chin" at the top for an iSight camera.
Same size, increased usability, somewhat less cool.
Yeah... there are some design issues with the phone that aren't being addressed all that well. It appears to be an attractive gadget at first glance.
The keypad needs texture or a raised/inset area for your fingers to feel what you're dialing/texting. Putting it on a screen gets rid of this feedback and is problematic. Think about how much you interact with that part of the keypad without having to look at it.
The screen would be a power draw on the mechanism and a good touchscreen still isn't cheap, of quality and durable enough for this kind of purpose yet.
The scrollwheel folds onto the back of the phone and closes towards the inside of the phone rendering it mostly unusable.
The double hinges are an interesting attempt at getting the action of the phone to be different, but it'll make it harder to open the phone and it splits up useful areas to fit electronics in.
I like the Flashing logo ringer but it would definitely be smaller in an apple design.
Is there an emoticon for "gayest thing ever written"?
---
I've owned many different "cool & innovative" models of moto/sony phones over the years. Frankly, I'm tired of innovative design. I just want a solid phone that has excellent reception/transmission first, then if it happens to look sexy also - all the better. Too much to ask for? Not from Apple, I'm sure..but, I don't seen any sign of them releasing a wireless phone any time soon.
So, before something like teh coolest looking fone ever® is released by company "x"...just make sure the damn thing works well as a phone first & foremost.
fwiw: Most people I know who own the Razr say, "Yeah, it sucks, but at least it looks cool."
Comments
Looking at the video again, the hinges used would cause a problem when trying to make a spring mechanism, as there are two hinges on either end of the phone, so the unfolding would have to be in two stages, and would need smaller parts. These are more expensive etc.
However we've seen how good Apple is at making mechanical parts (the previous iMacs swinging arm) so if anyone could pull it off, I guess it's Apple.
Having said this, if Apple were to make a phone, they might just opt for no mechanical parts whatsoever, no buttons etc, just a screen taking up one side with touch screen controls. To me that would be the most elegant and innovative solution. The trouble would be making the touch sensitivity durable. To me that would be an engineering challenge worth pursuing.
Makes sense no? Apple likes to take things in new directions, this would be new, not just an adaption of previous designs.
Originally posted by netdog
Your arrogance is not becoming.
I am not sure that I would point to current mobile manufacturers' work as evidence of what works and what doesn't. Most mobile phones are crap. Nobody had made a StarTac until Motorola did so.
Oh please
are there ANY posts of your, netdog, which don't reek of arrogance?
It's tiring reading threads which *could* be cool, only to see you subtly, or not-so-subtly, belittle anyone who debates with you.
I feel your posts lower the rather high IQ of AI.
ps: sorry, mods, if this post is out of context with the rules of AI.
pps: IMHO, that phone is an ergonomic nightmare. It just looks cool. I have a pretty good sense of proprioception/ergonomics...and I just can't imagine holding that phone, with what..2 fingers?...while the top & bottom parts "elegantly" fold out
Get this man a job at Apple.
I don't know about you, but I couldn't have been much more disappointed than I was in the Motorola iTunes phone. Then again, even though I used a Motorola know, I have to admit that the interface is just awful, so Moto probably wasn't the best choice to add even more functionality to phones that don't even operate smoothly in the first place
Admittedly, I like innovative design as long as it works well, even at times if it does not add any real functionality, so long as it doesn't make something less usable. Then again, that is a bias that I share with many. A true early adopter, I guess, which has left me with more than my fair share of new tech toys that didn't work too well, like my Duo 210 and my first Denon CD player. I am even one of those who wants the next iBook to be a tablet, something that raises the hackles of many, but unlike the tablets available that people point to, I want one that really works, with a great OS adaptation and handwriting recognition that hums. In essence, I want a tablet made by people who have thoroughly rethought the tablet, just like the folks at Xerox Parc did with the computer.
Agreed about the hinges. This phone is full of challenges, and given the chips it would require, along with the disk, I am not even sure that it all could be crammed into this phone, certainly if it is to meet radiation regulations. LOL
Still, I think that there are a lot of people that would love this phone, just as there are many who lust after the Mercedes 300SL Gullwing. Was that practical? Mmmm. Did the doors hold up? Ask anyone who owns one. Are they great? All in the eye of the beholder, and I do love them. Then again, try opening the door on a Ford GT40 in a parking lot. You will need two spaces or remain a prisoner in your car. Still, at the dealer near me in St. John's Wood, they get them in from time to time, and they leave the lot quite quickly at a substantial premium. This phone isn't Falling Water, where I could well imagine curling up for a weekend with a great book or three, but it sure makes me more excited than the Slivr, and excites something in me that triggers that elusive emotion we call desire.
Originally posted by user23
Oh please
are there ANY posts of your, netdog, which don't reek of arrogance?
It's tiring reading threads which *could* be cool, only to see you subtly, or not-so-subtly, belittle anyone who debates with you.
I feel your posts lower the rather high IQ of AI.
ps: sorry, mods, if this post is out of context with the rules of AI.
pps: IMHO, that phone is an ergonomic nightmare. It just looks cool. I have a pretty good sense of proprioception/ergonomics...and I just can't imagine holding that phone, with what..2 fingers?...while the top & bottom parts "elegantly" fold out
Thumb and two fingers. The magic of the opposable digit.
You can't please all the people all of the time.
FWIW, no, I had nothing to do with this mockup. I just posted it here because I like it. I am surprised that so few others seem to. Oh well.
Originally posted by user23
I feel your posts lower the rather high IQ of AI.
Thanks
Let's revist this concept when electronic ink displays are in the mainstream. Metallic glass already exists, but I'm not sure it's usable in commodity products yet (i.e. manufacturability), nor am I sure if at this stage it's the full-blown, amorphorous non-conducting material that it needs to be.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Gentlemen. . . I know that the Nano is thin and all, but this design is impossible for the time being, and perhaps the next decade. Displays just aren't that thin yet, and there are problems with using metal enclosures for radio devices. It would need to be constructed of some sort of non-conductive metallic glass in order to be feasible. As it is, Motorola sank a buttload of money into the keypad design of the Razr, let alone the whole thing.
Let's revist this concept when electronic ink displays are in the mainstream. Metallic glass already exists, but I'm not sure it's usable in commodity products yet, nor am I sure if at this stage it's the full-blown, amorphorous non-conducting material that it needs to be.
Agreed. Not having the expertise in electrical engineering nor knowledge about the restrictions around radio devices, these are the obstacles that I suspect render the issue essentially moot. Sad but true.
All-in-all I'd say it looks cool but definitely not Apple-ish. Each end would need to be *double hinged* to even make that unfolding physically possible. I'd be pretty skeptical of the overall strength of it considering all the tiny parts required just to make it open.
I'd hope that any real Apple solution would have a more simple elegance to it than that "Optimus Prime" transformer gadget.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Gentlemen. . . I know that the Nano is thin and all, but this design is impossible for the time being, and perhaps the next decade. Displays just aren't that thin yet, and there are problems with using metal enclosures for radio devices. It would need to be constructed of some sort of non-conductive metallic glass in order to be feasible. As it is, Motorola sank a buttload of money into the keypad design of the Razr, let alone the whole thing.
Let's revist this concept when electronic ink displays are in the mainstream. Metallic glass already exists, but I'm not sure it's usable in commodity products yet, nor am I sure if at this stage it's the full-blown, amorphorous non-conducting material that it needs to be.
Take the RAZR as an example. The RAZR is thin, hence the name. Have another look at the mockup. Yeah, so the inside screen may be a tad to large to be feasible, but metal would surely not be a problem. The RAZR's made of metal isn't it (at least the keypad)? I think that the technology is available to do this. The RAZR's only 13.9mm thin. That's almost nothing: like 0.2mm thicker than two iPod nanos on top of each other (two iPod nanos = 13.72mm). I don't even think that battery life would be that much of a problem. Most of the electronics would probably have to be in the flip-out bit though, to accomodate the screen and battery in the other section.
Originally posted by max_naylor
Take the RAZR as an example. The RAZR is thin, hence the name. Have another look at the mockup. Yeah, so the inside screen may be a tad to large to be feasible, but metal would surely not be a problem. The RAZR's made of metal isn't it (at least the keypad)? I think that the technology is available to do this. The RAZR's only 13.9mm thin. That's almost nothing: like 0.2mm thicker than two iPod nanos on top of each other (two iPod nanos = 13.72mm). I don't even think that battery life would be that much of a problem. Most of the electronics would probably have to be in the flip-out bit though, to accomodate the screen and battery in the other section.
I currently own my third Razr. First two froze, and the reception is positively terrible.
The look is nice enough but the build quality, is surprisingly bad. (seen as a lot of people seem to think it's the best phone ever)
Originally posted by Ireland
I currently own my third Razr. First two froze, and the reception is positively terrible.
The look is nice enough but the build quality, is surprisingly bad. (seen as a lot of people seem to think it's the best phone ever)
While I am not happy with Motorola's software, I have to say that my Razr, bought when they first came out, has been (over)used and abused and has had absolutely no problems. Nor have the Razrs that belong to any of my friends. I can't agree that the build quality is bad, nor that the reception is "positively terrible." It does not have the reception of some of the larger thicker phones, but its reception is comparable to the other smaller phones in use by people I know. I think that perhaps you have just had some bad luck.
Relevant Apple content: I wish that this thing would sync up with Entourage, not that Motorola's directory is any good at all.
Originally posted by max_naylor
Take the RAZR as an example. . . but metal would surely not be a problem. . .
I don't mean to sound petulant, but you're wrong. At 900MHz (roughly the frequency of 2G cellular) a metal enclosure of such dimensions will cause all sorts of interferrence problems, even if there is an aperture for the antenna. At 1.8GHz there's a little bit more freedom, but the wavelength is still about 17cm, and you'll want to limit the amount of reflective materials (i.e. metal surfaces) in the enclosure as much as possible. The Razr gets away with it since the keypad isn't near the antenna, and it's also not generally in the path of the transmission.
Most issues might be solved by placing the click wheel below the small screen when closed. Its not like you can use it easily when it's fully opened anyway. The camera is also on the wrong side...for video chat.
Still though...the double hinge is inelegant from a usability standpoint. The only advantage is to provide better protection of the screen when the display isn't desired.
That could be done with a hinge along the long end which would also give you the ability to prop the display up at a reasonable viewing angle. Put the "chin" at the top for an iSight camera.
Same size, increased usability, somewhat less cool.
Vinea
The keypad needs texture or a raised/inset area for your fingers to feel what you're dialing/texting. Putting it on a screen gets rid of this feedback and is problematic. Think about how much you interact with that part of the keypad without having to look at it.
The screen would be a power draw on the mechanism and a good touchscreen still isn't cheap, of quality and durable enough for this kind of purpose yet.
The scrollwheel folds onto the back of the phone and closes towards the inside of the phone rendering it mostly unusable.
The double hinges are an interesting attempt at getting the action of the phone to be different, but it'll make it harder to open the phone and it splits up useful areas to fit electronics in.
I like the Flashing logo ringer but it would definitely be smaller in an apple design.
Originally posted by netdog
and excites something in me that triggers that elusive emotion we call desire.
Is there an emoticon for "gayest thing ever written"?
Originally posted by wilco
Is there an emoticon for "gayest thing ever written"?
---
I've owned many different "cool & innovative" models of moto/sony phones over the years. Frankly, I'm tired of innovative design. I just want a solid phone that has excellent reception/transmission first, then if it happens to look sexy also - all the better. Too much to ask for? Not from Apple, I'm sure..but, I don't seen any sign of them releasing a wireless phone any time soon.
So, before something like teh coolest looking fone ever® is released by company "x"...just make sure the damn thing works well as a phone first & foremost.
fwiw: Most people I know who own the Razr say, "Yeah, it sucks, but at least it looks cool."