Yeah. I've read him criticize Mach (mostly around 1996, when Mach was not even remotely associated with Apple) but never have I read anything from him that mentions Apple using Linux or anything even similar to that.
So yeah, a source would be good.
I'm finding plenty of articles about Linus, and his opinions, but none of the articles is complete. He did say, at least once, that OS X would be better ius it was switched to a Linux kernal, and I'm trying to find that one quote.
Meanwhile, there are much later statements from him that are findable about his dislike of MACH. A couple of intyeresting things:
Are you implying that my insider contacts aren't believable? Now, is that nice? I'd like to think we can rise above any pettiness.
I, for one, won't respond to such indignities any more.
Considering that you are the one who always throws such indignities around, that's nice of you. I don't find you to be believable. You spend too much of your time attempting to be witty with your silling mocking statements to be taken seriously.
Jeez mel, if everyone followed that advice, the internet would only be 5% of its current size. What are you, anti-internet??
Yeah. You can tell because I hardly ever post.
It's just that there are two or three guys here who seem to start these inane commentaries.
In "real" conversations, people are more interested in whatever relationships you might have to help explain something. Nut, on the net, that instead is resented.
It goes back to the cartoon that came out near the beginning of the web, where there is a pic of a monitor, with a seat and a keyboard. A dog is standing there looking at the monitor, and the caption reads:
"On the internet, nobody knows you are a dog".
Sadly, that appears to mean that anytime someone mentions someone else as a reference, they get dissed. I also suppose that happens because most of those people doing the dissing would never even be allowed in on the conversation anywhere else BUT on the net. And they know it!
Brand fanatism also plays a part. For some people, once you have shown that their favorite brand, even if it is also your own, is not perfect, they are forever your adversary, even if you agree with them on other issues. That first apparent "slight" carries forward to everything else, and they are then forever looking to say something derogatory.
That is what I mind. And, as we know, a smiley doesn't change the nature of the slur.
Good article on the rebirth of microkernels in the current issue of IEEE Computer, just plopped on my desk today:
Andrew S. Tanenbaum, Jorrit N. Herder and Herbert Bos Can We Make Operating Systems Reliable and Secure?, IEEE Computer, May 2006, pgs 44-51.
Seems that microkernels are all the rage in research again, specifically to address security issues. Performance is seen as secondary by most stakeholders, now that security has become such a monetary burden. Interesting ideas presented, and a good rundown of the basics.
In all fairness, I *do* recall a LinusQuote(tm) from around the time that Apple bought NeXT, stating the he thought it was a bad idea, and that they should have gone with Linux instead. Source? No. It was, however, frequently used as a rallying point with folks I sparred with online, annoyingly enough.
In all fairness, I *do* recall a LinusQuote(tm) from around the time that Apple bought NeXT, stating the he thought it was a bad idea, and that they should have gone with Linux instead. Source? No. It was, however, frequently used as a rallying point with folks I sparred with online, annoyingly enough.
*shrug*
None of that really matters now of course.
I remember that from back then as well. That's what I was referring to. But, as most of us know, at least, articles and quotes can be very hard to find. You really have to lucky, more than anything else.
The annoying thing is that I read it again just a few weeks ago, and didn't think it would come up, so I didn't bookmark it.
Of course, if you can't find a reference, that allows people to think you are wrong, or, making it up.
Wikipedia has arguably the most extensive collection of LT quotes, and none of them mention Apple. They do mention Mach, and his opinions on it, but no 'Apple should use Linux' is to be found. One would think that such an interesting piece of opinion/advice/bullshit would be catalogued somewhere, in some website, some geek and Linux zealot would use it as a Testament of Faith, but no such things are to be found.
I'm not saying it's a lie, but the evidence so far is equal to zero. And yes, it is irrelevant.
Seems lots of NeXT people are leaving. I REALLY hope the rumors about Mac OS W are not true. There have been a lot of things moving in that direction lately though. And Apple doesn't seem to be the company it used to be. It has been making many BIG bold moves of late. Can you imagine them ditching Mach/Darwin for Vista with w/ Cocoa, quicktime, GUI, etc.? Lot's of people seem to think this may be exactly what is going to happen, eventually. Or at the very least, Apple is keeping that door open (moving in that direction to make it a possiblity).
2nd note: the Mach kernel has real speed problems. It is great for portability, but the funneling is bad. There are Mach kernel derivitives that are much faster. See L4 and its derivatives.
[B]Seems lots of NeXT people are leaving. I REALLY hope the rumors about Mac OS W are not true. There have been a lot of things moving in that direction lately though. And Apple doesn't seem to be the company it used to be. It has been making many BIG bold moves of late. Can you imagine them ditching Mach/Darwin for Vista with w/ Cocoa, quicktime, GUI, etc.? Lot's of people seem to think this may be exactly what is going to happen, eventually. Or at the very least, Apple is keeping that door open (moving in that direction to make it a possiblity).
I haven't seen that a "lot" of people are suggesting that Apple go to Vista's kernel. A couple, yes.
Quote:
2nd note: the Mach kernel has real speed problems. It is great for portability, but the funneling is bad. There are Mach kernel derivitives that are much faster. See L4 and its derivatives.
I haven't seen that a "lot" of people are suggesting that Apple go to Vista's kernel. A couple, yes.
I was going to say... the only source I've heard for this random speculation out of thin air is John Dvorak, that Bastion of Journalistic Integrity and Clear Thought.
I was going to say... the only source I've heard for this random speculation out of thin air is John Dvorak, that Bastion of Journalistic Integrity and Clear Thought.
I was going to say... the only source I've heard for this random speculation out of thin air is John Dvorak, that Bastion of Journalistic Integrity and Clear Thought.
I always thought his byline was "Here comes Mr. Reasonableness."
Comments
Originally posted by melgross
Why are you ...
Are you implying that my insider contacts aren't believable? Now, is that nice? I'd like to think we can rise above any pettiness.
I, for one, won't respond to such indignities any more.
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Yeah. I've read him criticize Mach (mostly around 1996, when Mach was not even remotely associated with Apple) but never have I read anything from him that mentions Apple using Linux or anything even similar to that.
So yeah, a source would be good.
I'm finding plenty of articles about Linus, and his opinions, but none of the articles is complete. He did say, at least once, that OS X would be better ius it was switched to a Linux kernal, and I'm trying to find that one quote.
Meanwhile, there are much later statements from him that are findable about his dislike of MACH. A couple of intyeresting things:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/lin...2085525,00.htm
That was shortly before he made his statement. The article just stops short of giving his comment.
Now, the next article is not from Linus, but is the same argument he gives (in a more readable fashion).
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6105
Originally posted by bikertwin
Are you implying that my insider contacts aren't believable? Now, is that nice? I'd like to think we can rise above any pettiness.
I, for one, won't respond to such indignities any more.
Considering that you are the one who always throws such indignities around, that's nice of you. I don't find you to be believable. You spend too much of your time attempting to be witty with your silling mocking statements to be taken seriously.
If you aren't happy, then just don't comment.
Originally posted by melgross
If you aren't happy, then just don't comment.
Jeez mel, if everyone followed that advice, the internet would only be 5% of its current size. What are you, anti-internet??
Originally posted by Kickaha
Jeez mel, if everyone followed that advice, the internet would only be 5% of its current size. What are you, anti-internet??
Yeah. You can tell because I hardly ever post.
It's just that there are two or three guys here who seem to start these inane commentaries.
In "real" conversations, people are more interested in whatever relationships you might have to help explain something. Nut, on the net, that instead is resented.
It goes back to the cartoon that came out near the beginning of the web, where there is a pic of a monitor, with a seat and a keyboard. A dog is standing there looking at the monitor, and the caption reads:
"On the internet, nobody knows you are a dog".
Sadly, that appears to mean that anytime someone mentions someone else as a reference, they get dissed. I also suppose that happens because most of those people doing the dissing would never even be allowed in on the conversation anywhere else BUT on the net. And they know it!
Brand fanatism also plays a part. For some people, once you have shown that their favorite brand, even if it is also your own, is not perfect, they are forever your adversary, even if you agree with them on other issues. That first apparent "slight" carries forward to everything else, and they are then forever looking to say something derogatory.
That is what I mind. And, as we know, a smiley doesn't change the nature of the slur.
Andrew S. Tanenbaum, Jorrit N. Herder and Herbert Bos Can We Make Operating Systems Reliable and Secure?, IEEE Computer, May 2006, pgs 44-51.
Seems that microkernels are all the rage in research again, specifically to address security issues. Performance is seen as secondary by most stakeholders, now that security has become such a monetary burden. Interesting ideas presented, and a good rundown of the basics.
Originally posted by melgross
Meanwhile, there are much later statements from him that are findable about his dislike of MACH.
Sorry, but his dislike of Mach (5/9/6) doesn't translate to "Apple should use Linux."
Good luck next time, though.
*shrug*
None of that really matters now of course.
Originally posted by Kickaha
In all fairness, I *do* recall a LinusQuote(tm) from around the time that Apple bought NeXT, stating the he thought it was a bad idea, and that they should have gone with Linux instead. Source? No. It was, however, frequently used as a rallying point with folks I sparred with online, annoyingly enough.
*shrug*
None of that really matters now of course.
I remember that from back then as well. That's what I was referring to. But, as most of us know, at least, articles and quotes can be very hard to find. You really have to lucky, more than anything else.
The annoying thing is that I read it again just a few weeks ago, and didn't think it would come up, so I didn't bookmark it.
Of course, if you can't find a reference, that allows people to think you are wrong, or, making it up.
But, you're right. It really is irrelevant.
I'm not saying it's a lie, but the evidence so far is equal to zero. And yes, it is irrelevant.
2nd note: the Mach kernel has real speed problems. It is great for portability, but the funneling is bad. There are Mach kernel derivitives that are much faster. See L4 and its derivatives.
Originally posted by xdaniel
[B]Seems lots of NeXT people are leaving. I REALLY hope the rumors about Mac OS W are not true. There have been a lot of things moving in that direction lately though. And Apple doesn't seem to be the company it used to be. It has been making many BIG bold moves of late. Can you imagine them ditching Mach/Darwin for Vista with w/ Cocoa, quicktime, GUI, etc.? Lot's of people seem to think this may be exactly what is going to happen, eventually. Or at the very least, Apple is keeping that door open (moving in that direction to make it a possiblity).
I haven't seen that a "lot" of people are suggesting that Apple go to Vista's kernel. A couple, yes.
2nd note: the Mach kernel has real speed problems. It is great for portability, but the funneling is bad. There are Mach kernel derivitives that are much faster. See L4 and its derivatives.
Yes, some are.
Originally posted by melgross
I haven't seen that a "lot" of people are suggesting that Apple go to Vista's kernel. A couple, yes.
I was going to say... the only source I've heard for this random speculation out of thin air is John Dvorak, that Bastion of Journalistic Integrity and Clear Thought.
Originally posted by Kickaha
I was going to say... the only source I've heard for this random speculation out of thin air is John Dvorak, that Bastion of Journalistic Integrity and Clear Thought.
Originally posted by Kickaha
I was going to say... the only source I've heard for this random speculation out of thin air is John Dvorak, that Bastion of Journalistic Integrity and Clear Thought.
I always thought his byline was "Here comes Mr. Reasonableness."
Originally posted by bikertwin
The Kool-Aid ran out.