for the Goals, but parents and their children try to achieve the
goals as "partners".
Um, what age children are we talking about? I would imagine the children likely to be spanked (and not fight back, mind you) would be neither willing nor able to have such a thing as "goals".
Hey! I'm talking about children here.. clean up your minds.
As a father of a two year old I am often faced with the question of whether to spank our child or not. Most of the time we don't... but I'll admit there have been a few times when a swat on the butt made all the difference.
In addition, if my son does something that could be very dangerous.. for example playing with an electrical cord, I have slapped his hand.
I think the key is... don't ever do it when you are angry.
What are your thoughts. Please include whether you are a parent or not in your answer.... I've found that many opinions I have had have changed now that I am a parent.
im not a parent but i have plenty of experience on this subject
let me tell you one thing, i love my father with all my heart and respect the hell out of him. but because i grew up my entire life being flat out AFRAID of my dad and the sound of his big belt buckle, i cant hardly show my dad how i feel about him.
i think my dad finally realized that he had been the father that he grew up hating and still feels bad about it.
in my mind i've forgiven my dad but i have yet to be able to tell him that.
voilence in youth is NOT GOOD.
Right with you so far. My relationship with my father has never recovered.
Quote:
that being said, i think SPANKING is a must. BUT there is a huge difference bewteen SPANKING and BEATING your child.
I my opinion, you don't add up now. I have a two and half year old, and have never had to use force with him. I use a very soft and kind voice with him most of the time, and so my deep, serious voice stops him in his tracks.
There is no huge difference here at all. Physically striking is just that, no matter what you call it.
I have a 2 year old baby. I don't spank him and I have no desire to.
I haven't had any problems controlling his behavior. When you give children options that are acceptable to you and them, there is no need to hit.
If he wants to eat ice cream on the sofa and I don't want him to, I tell him I don't want him to do that because he will spill, and I take him back to the table. If he insists I give him a choice, 'you can climb on the sofa or you can eat your ice cream at the table.' He chooses what he wants to do. This is a simple example, but it works for everything.
I can't really imagine an instance where I would want to hit or threaten him.
And children who are abused and even spanked are more antisocial, they are more likely to be depressed, less successful in school, and more likely to hit or abuse their parents when they are elderly. But if they do, it won't mean they don't love you, right?
This is right on. See my post above. For those of you arguing that kids need it, or that its not abuse, I fear you may find out your actions have unintended results.
Not to get to far off base but people, you don't have to be spanked to crumble your relationship with your parents. Verbal assualts are probably far worse IMHO.
And, I am not trying to be a butt here so keep that in mind, but if your relationship with your dad (I can relate) was crapped on by his belt, there was proably an underlying problem that caused this. i.e. he may have been raised like a slave and verbally abused causing him not to show feelings wether or not he whipped you til you couldn't sit. Not trying to say anyone is wrong because they are not, just saying from my experience the spanking part was not the real culprit...
Not to get to far off base but people, you don't have to be spanked to crumble your relationship with your parents. Verbal assualts are probably far worse IMHO.
And, I am not trying to be a butt here so keep that in mind, but if your relationship with your dad (I can relate) was crapped on by his belt, there was proably an underlying problem that caused this. i.e. he may have been raised like a slave and verbally abused causing him not to show feelings wether or not he whipped you til you couldn't sit. Not trying to say anyone is wrong because they are not, just saying from my experience the spanking part was not the real culprit...
[B]Right with you so far. My relationship with my father has never recovered.
I my opinion, you don't add up now. I have a two and half year old, and have never had to use force with him. I use a very soft and kind voice with him most of the time, and so my deep, serious voice stops him in his tracks.
There is no huge difference here at all. Physically striking is just that, no matter what you call it.
As i said in my first comment, my girl is 8 yr old (well, 2 weeks ahead)
Generally, and i write it on any wall if you don't mind,
spanking is mere losing self control and a visible expression of a
violent character too. And additionally, i can't come up with a
potential mindset, wherein "spanking" does any good, but spawning
Violence. And except of *self satisfaction*.
If you need additional *self satisfaction* than spanking a 3 year
old is good for you. This is my answer to anybody who asks to
spank or not to spank.
(I don't mean you personally, forgive me, if you thought first, chucker).
Yep, fully agreed (not that I have children yet, but I'm still curious about all this ). I'm still confused over your statement regarding "goals", however. What goals does your daughter have? If you were to ask her, what answer would you expect? Surely it can't be "to have a healthy and working relationship with my parents" or "to have a successful career, as well as a spouse I love, plus children"?
I'd imagine an 8-year old's goals would amount to "to collect all pieces of {random collectible items, e.g. Pokemon}" or "to have lots of cool friends to hang out with", neither of which probably cause much stir with parents to begin with.
So, please clarify what you mean by "goals" that parents and children need to work on together. Thanks!
I already did - look on the previous page. It was the article I was referring to in my response to you.
I read over the article and, while it maybe correct from mathematical perspective, it has very little application in real life.
Since in both groups (spanked and not spanked) there are cases where aggression and and is not manifested later in life, one can only conclude that spanking is NOT the only factor.
Also, this information is useless unless you're trying to educate enough children at the same time to have a statistically significant group (which is why corporal punishment should never be allowed in schools). In a typical family the number of children falls far below statistically significant sample and so one can not use information gathered using such methods.
Quote:
And additionally, i can't come up with a
potential mindset, wherein "spanking" does any good, but spawning
Violence. And except of *self satisfaction*.
It is unwise to think that just because you "can't come up with a potential mindset", that one can't exist.
I can give you a math problem that you can't solve... does that mean that the math problem is unsolvable?
More likely, it is an indication of a limiation of one's mindset.
The same thing with violence... violence, self-control, and spanking, while can be related, don't always have to be.
There is time for each and a wise person knows when to do what.
Comments
Originally posted by gregmightdothat
You realize that your sarcasm is not that funny and plain unintelligent.
No I didn't realize it was "plain unintelligent." Damn.
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
I don't see any contradiction so far.
A partner participates in a relationship in which each member has equal status.
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
Anyway, actually i consider parents and their children
as "partners" in the sense that parents and their children have an informal, say, (hidden) family contract, to achieve a common goal.
Now I see where your confusion lies.
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
parents and their children try to achieve the goals as "partners".
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
Parents are responsible
for the Goals, but parents and their children try to achieve the
goals as "partners".
Um, what age children are we talking about? I would imagine the children likely to be spanked (and not fight back, mind you) would be neither willing nor able to have such a thing as "goals".
Originally posted by BRussell
skatman, the research does not support what you posted... [/B]
Please post a reference to a peer reviewed, indexed, and archived primary publication and we can argue about that.
You are "educating" your child by inflicting pain. Doesn't that sound sinister to you?
And... so what?
Originally posted by skatman
Please post a reference to a peer reviewed, indexed, and archived primary publication and we can argue about that.
I already did - look on the previous page. It was the article I was referring to in my response to you.
Originally posted by npynenberg
Hey! I'm talking about children here.. clean up your minds.
As a father of a two year old I am often faced with the question of whether to spank our child or not. Most of the time we don't... but I'll admit there have been a few times when a swat on the butt made all the difference.
In addition, if my son does something that could be very dangerous.. for example playing with an electrical cord, I have slapped his hand.
I think the key is... don't ever do it when you are angry.
What are your thoughts. Please include whether you are a parent or not in your answer.... I've found that many opinions I have had have changed now that I am a parent.
Chalk me up for the spank side.
Originally posted by untsig
im not a parent but i have plenty of experience on this subject
let me tell you one thing, i love my father with all my heart and respect the hell out of him. but because i grew up my entire life being flat out AFRAID of my dad and the sound of his big belt buckle, i cant hardly show my dad how i feel about him.
i think my dad finally realized that he had been the father that he grew up hating and still feels bad about it.
in my mind i've forgiven my dad but i have yet to be able to tell him that.
voilence in youth is NOT GOOD.
Right with you so far. My relationship with my father has never recovered.
Quote:
that being said, i think SPANKING is a must. BUT there is a huge difference bewteen SPANKING and BEATING your child.
I my opinion, you don't add up now. I have a two and half year old, and have never had to use force with him. I use a very soft and kind voice with him most of the time, and so my deep, serious voice stops him in his tracks.
There is no huge difference here at all. Physically striking is just that, no matter what you call it.
Originally posted by pena2050
I have a 2 year old baby. I don't spank him and I have no desire to.
I haven't had any problems controlling his behavior. When you give children options that are acceptable to you and them, there is no need to hit.
If he wants to eat ice cream on the sofa and I don't want him to, I tell him I don't want him to do that because he will spill, and I take him back to the table. If he insists I give him a choice, 'you can climb on the sofa or you can eat your ice cream at the table.' He chooses what he wants to do. This is a simple example, but it works for everything.
I can't really imagine an instance where I would want to hit or threaten him.
And children who are abused and even spanked are more antisocial, they are more likely to be depressed, less successful in school, and more likely to hit or abuse their parents when they are elderly. But if they do, it won't mean they don't love you, right?
This is right on. See my post above. For those of you arguing that kids need it, or that its not abuse, I fear you may find out your actions have unintended results.
And, I am not trying to be a butt here so keep that in mind, but if your relationship with your dad (I can relate) was crapped on by his belt, there was proably an underlying problem that caused this. i.e. he may have been raised like a slave and verbally abused causing him not to show feelings wether or not he whipped you til you couldn't sit. Not trying to say anyone is wrong because they are not, just saying from my experience the spanking part was not the real culprit...
Originally posted by aplnub
Not to get to far off base but people, you don't have to be spanked to crumble your relationship with your parents. Verbal assualts are probably far worse IMHO.
And, I am not trying to be a butt here so keep that in mind, but if your relationship with your dad (I can relate) was crapped on by his belt, there was proably an underlying problem that caused this. i.e. he may have been raised like a slave and verbally abused causing him not to show feelings wether or not he whipped you til you couldn't sit. Not trying to say anyone is wrong because they are not, just saying from my experience the spanking part was not the real culprit...
Who knows, you may have a point here. I got both.
Originally posted by Chucker
Um, what age children are we talking about?
As i said in my first comment, my girl is 8 yr old (well, 2 weeks ahead
Generally, and i write it on any wall if you don't mind,
spanking is mere losing self control and a visible expression of a
violent character too. And additionally, i can't come up with a
potential mindset, wherein "spanking" does any good, but spawning
Violence. And except of *self satisfaction*.
If you need additional *self satisfaction* than spanking a 3 year
old is good for you. This is my answer to anybody who asks to
spank or not to spank.
(I don't mean you personally, forgive me, if you thought first, chucker
Originally posted by blue2kdave
[B]Right with you so far. My relationship with my father has never recovered.
I my opinion, you don't add up now. I have a two and half year old, and have never had to use force with him. I use a very soft and kind voice with him most of the time, and so my deep, serious voice stops him in his tracks.
There is no huge difference here at all. Physically striking is just that, no matter what you call it.
Same mindset.
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
As i said in my first comment, my girl is 8 yr old (well, 2 weeks ahead
Generally, and i write it on any wall if you don't mind,
spanking is mere losing self control and a visible expression of a
violent character too. And additionally, i can't come up with a
potential mindset, wherein "spanking" does any good, but spawning
Violence. And except of *self satisfaction*.
If you need additional *self satisfaction* than spanking a 3 year
old is good for you. This is my answer to anybody who asks to
spank or not to spank.
(I don't mean you personally, forgive me, if you thought first, chucker
Yep, fully agreed (not that I have children yet, but I'm still curious about all this
I'd imagine an 8-year old's goals would amount to "to collect all pieces of {random collectible items, e.g. Pokemon}" or "to have lots of cool friends to hang out with", neither of which probably cause much stir with parents to begin with.
So, please clarify what you mean by "goals" that parents and children need to work on together. Thanks!
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
Generally, and i write it on any wall if you don't mind,
spanking is mere losing self control and a visible expression of a
violent character too.
Hmmm...smells like...hasty generalization.
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Hmmm...smells like...hasty generalization.
Actually, smells like "personal opinion".
Originally posted by BRussell
I already did - look on the previous page. It was the article I was referring to in my response to you.
I read over the article and, while it maybe correct from mathematical perspective, it has very little application in real life.
Since in both groups (spanked and not spanked) there are cases where aggression and and is not manifested later in life, one can only conclude that spanking is NOT the only factor.
Also, this information is useless unless you're trying to educate enough children at the same time to have a statistically significant group (which is why corporal punishment should never be allowed in schools). In a typical family the number of children falls far below statistically significant sample and so one can not use information gathered using such methods.
And additionally, i can't come up with a
potential mindset, wherein "spanking" does any good, but spawning
Violence. And except of *self satisfaction*.
It is unwise to think that just because you "can't come up with a potential mindset", that one can't exist.
I can give you a math problem that you can't solve... does that mean that the math problem is unsolvable?
More likely, it is an indication of a limiation of one's mindset.
The same thing with violence... violence, self-control, and spanking, while can be related, don't always have to be.
There is time for each and a wise person knows when to do what.
1. Marked by, acting with, or resulting from great force: a violent attack.
2. Having or showing great emotional force: violent dislike.
3. Marked by intensity; extreme: violent pain; a violent squall. See Synonyms at intense.
4. Caused by unexpected force or injury rather than by natural causes: a violent death.
5. Tending to distort or injure meaning, phrasing, or intent.
Anyone doing this with their children is abusing them and needs to be reported to the proper authorities.
This should also be distinguished from spanking.
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
This should also be distinguished from spanking.
It would help if you could specify why you feel that violence is a distinct concept from spanking.
Originally posted by Chucker
It would help if you could specify why you feel that violence is a distinct concept from spanking.
Well, at least in the way that my wife and I have administered spankings, they are not:
1. Marked by, acting with, or resulting from great force: a violent attack.
2. Having or showing great emotional force: violent dislike.
3. Marked by intensity; extreme: violent pain; a violent squall. See Synonyms at intense.
4. Caused by unexpected force or injury rather than by natural causes: a violent death.