My guess is that Apple will wait for the Xserves till later in the year, somewhere around October to November, and concentrate on getting the Pro and Consumer hardware updated.
Honestly - drop-in three sentences at WWDC, at best. Followed by a write up in tech magazines about the TCO, and how it's a great bargain, as the current XServe apparently was at one point.
"10.5 Server will drastically reduce the messenging lag in the Darwin kernel, making it even better for servers. Which reminds me... we've got a new Xserve: 2 x 2.33 and 2 x 2.66 Xeon 5100s, room for 4 HDDs <insert 1-2 more features here>, all at the competitive price of <price>. Additionally, 10.5 Server has..."
The Precision 690 offers both 50xx and 51xx options, you have to pick "choose", then "continue" to configure the system and it will show the processor options. The 51xxs show a shipping delay though. A 1.6GHz 5110 single shows up at the same price as a single 3.0GHz 5050. The cheapest Woodcrest with only one chip is $1730, the cheapest Woodcrest dual-dual is about $2100 US. An otherwise minimal 3.0GHz 5160 quad runs to $3940.
I was shopping the precision 490 instead of the 690 as they started at a cheaper price, more like Apple's. I then customozed mini-Tower with XP Pro x64 edition, to match Apple's 64 bit approach. Cheapest Woodcreast, the 1.6GHz 5110, no 2nd CPU and cheapest video card, and Apple Std. 1GB of RAM and 160GB HD (not cheapest, but lowest end for current G5) and combo drive, 2nd Ethernet to match current G5, keyboard and optical mouse, 1394a card ( a compromise at only FireWire 400), Finally, I save some money on the cheapest support option of 3 years and the price thus was $2250, just a tad more than Apple's $2000 base model pricing. For the same price, I could have done a (dual core) Xeon 5050 at 3GHz but only 667MHz RAM. That probably would sound better for a non-quad machine.
I think you can avoid adding 2nd Ethernet card and FW card - those seem to be Apple-standard: Apple has then whether or not the model you compare it to has them.
I was shopping the precision 490 instead of the 690 as they started at a cheaper price, more like Apple's. I then customozed mini-Tower with XP Pro x64 edition, to match Apple's 64 bit approach. Cheapest Woodcreast, the 1.6GHz 5110, no 2nd CPU and cheapest video card, and Apple Std. 1GB of RAM and 160GB HD (not cheapest, but lowest end for current G5) and combo drive, 2nd Ethernet to match current G5, keyboard and optical mouse, 1394a card ( a compromise at only FireWire 400), Finally, I save some money on the cheapest support option of 3 years and the price thus was $2250, just a tad more than Apple's $2000 base model pricing. For the same price, I could have done a (dual core) Xeon 5050 at 3GHz but only 667MHz RAM. That probably would sound better for a non-quad machine.
You are right, I didn't look that hard at the 490. It's a little closer if you put in the Applecare ($250) to bring the G5's support up to three years to match the Dell's.
You are right, I didn't look that hard at the 490. It's a little closer if you put in the Applecare ($250) to bring the G5's support up to three years to match the Dell's.
Very true. good point to even things up. Of course Apple doesn't market their computers as "Workstations" even if they have nearly the same power. I think Apple might use a Core 2 Extreme in the non-quad desktop. it seems to be a cheaper way to go. Only Woodcrest is needed in a Quad machine.
I hope you guys really enjoy pouring through those pages, and numbers. I'm just not sure that Apple cares much about them. Remember that Apple's pricing is based on different areas than Dell's are. Dells prices are not all that relevant.
Dell has features as standard that Apple doesn't offer, and Apple has much more expensive cases that Dell doesn't offer. The designs are totally different, and sell into different markets, for the most part. Dell also can get better pricing on parts than Apple can, due to much greater volume. Dell also can sell for less because of their direct model, while Apple still sells most of its models through the distribution system.
If Apple's prices are about the same, then they are for very different reasons. I don't think that looking through Dells lists really helps judge what Apple can do. Any similarities are likely coincidental.
Very true. good point to even things up. Of course Apple doesn't market their computers as "Workstations" even if they have nearly the same power. I think Apple might use a Core 2 Extreme in the non-quad desktop. it seems to be a cheaper way to go. Only Woodcrest is needed in a Quad machine.
They might not say that in their literature and their site, but I would suggest that they both have the same kind of buyers and the same general uses, the same general pricing. If Apple continues their plan of non-upgradable duals, then their one-processor unit certainly won't need to be Woodcrest.
HP's got a single 2.33GHz 5140 Woodcrest for $2869
Interesting...that's a pretty fat margin they're taking in._ I hope Apple will be more competitive than that...that's almost a 50% margin if I were to guess...there's not more than 2000 worth of parts in that HP._ If I were to guess, I'd say there is 1600 dollars of parts in there.
Interesting...that's a pretty fat margin they're taking in._ I hope Apple will be more competitive than that...that's almost a 50% margin if I were to guess...there's not more than 2000 worth of parts in that HP._ If I were to guess, I'd say there is 1600 dollars of parts in there.
I thought someone would find that interesting. But HP is known to have better margins than Dell, but then again Apple is known for fatter margins too. I can't wait to see what's up Apple's sleeve.
Interesting...that's a pretty fat margin they're taking in._ I hope Apple will be more competitive than that...that's almost a 50% margin if I were to guess...there's not more than 2000 worth of parts in that HP._ If I were to guess, I'd say there is 1600 dollars of parts in there.
I think that a good look at what Hp is offering on this machine is in order first. If Apple offered the same, we would be in ecstasy!
160GB SATA drive
16x/48x DVD
2 - 3.5" internal
2 - 5.25" external
1 - 3.5" external
4 PCIe slots 16, 4, 4
2 PCI slots
Front ports
1 Mic
USB 2
1 Firewire
1 audio out
rear ports
5 USB 2
1 serial
2 PS/2
1 rj-45 (NIC)
1 audio in
1 audio out
1 mic in
1 parallel
1USB 2 (not sure what that means)
Nvidia Quadro NVS 285 128MB PCIe card.
10/100/1000 NIC
Data center grade power supply
3 year warranty ? including labor, AND onsite service!
When Apple offers us something like that, for a lower price, then we can say that Hp is making a fat margin.
The Nvidia Quadro NVS 285 128MB PCIe card is a 160 dollar card.
Apple already offers USB 2, Firewire, audio in/out, RJ-45 (obviously)...we don't need serial, parallel or PS/2.
Apple already offers 4 PCIe slots.
Apple already offers 160GB SATAs.
All of this for $1999...and this isn't no ordinary $1999...these 1999 dollars are on a 7 month old product which is probably worth no more than $1499 now. So in a sense, Apple is offering almost all of that *right now* and the PowerMac G5 could be very competitive *right now* if Apple had a "don't-screw-the customer" policy.
The only enticing features on the HP is the expansion. If I had to choose between a 2900 dollar 2.33GHz Xeon and a 1499 dollar 2.00GHz G5, I'd pick the G5 (probably also because I don't need the expandability though...but whatever).
The next round of pro towers from Apple will certainly have 1GB of RAM min and will retain the same price as a worst case scenario...so I'm fairly certain we'll see the 2.33GHz Xeon and everything we see on the current G5s (and, therefore, the HP) with the exception of 1GB less RAM for $1999.
The only things that are expensive in that HP is the processor and the mobo which probably doesn't add up to more than $1000 if we pretend the mobo is $500 and that HP doesn't get any deal from Intel.
The Nvidia Quadro NVS 285 128MB PCIe card is a 160 dollar card.
Apple already offers USB 2, Firewire, audio in/out, RJ-45 (obviously)...we don't need serial, parallel or PS/2.
Apple already offers 4 PCIe slots.
Apple already offers 160GB SATAs.
All of this for $1999...and this isn't no ordinary $1999...these 1999 dollars are on a 7 month old product which is probably worth no more than $1499 now. So in a sense, Apple is offering almost all of that *right now* and the PowerMac G5 could be very competitive *right now* if Apple had a "don't-screw-the customer" policy.
The only enticing features on the HP is the expansion. If I had to choose between a 2900 dollar 2.33GHz Xeon and a 1499 dollar 2.00GHz G5, I'd pick the G5 (probably also because I don't need the expandability though...but whatever).
The next round of pro towers from Apple will certainly have 1GB of RAM min and will retain the same price as a worst case scenario...so I'm fairly certain we'll see the 2.33GHz Xeon and everything we see on the current G5s (and, therefore, the HP) with the exception of 1GB less RAM for $1999.
The only things that are expensive in that HP is the processor and the mobo which probably doesn't add up to more than $1000 if we pretend the mobo is $500 and that HP doesn't get any deal from Intel.
What you're showing is still only a subset of what Hp is offering. It's convenient to ignore that fact.
And you do need serial and parallel. I have equipment that I can't use on a Mac because it needs either.
Test equipment, for example. That's why Apple can't compete in some markets. And the makers of those ports for the Mac left when the Mac's marketshare went south a few years ago.
Apple doesn't offer that board at all, and the ones that come with the machine are cheaper game boards. I bet you can get ANY board for the Hp.
I would pick the 2.33 Xeon. The G5 is a dead issue. Who cares?
Never state what Apple will do, and never put a price on it. The best you can do is to say that you think it would be a good idea for it.
If you happen to be about right, it's just luck. everyone comes out with a prediction of what Apple will do. someone has to be lucky. But it means nothing.
Apple simply has nothing to compete, despite what you say. That 3 year onsite warranty is worth $300 by itself. When you add Apple's extended one to the price it still isn't quite as good.
What you're showing is still only a subset of what Hp is offering. It's convenient to ignore that fact.
And you do need serial and parallel. I have equipment that I can't use on a Mac because it needs either.
Test equipment, for example. That's why Apple can't compete in some markets. And the makers of those ports for the Mac left when the Mac's marketshare went south a few years ago.
I have made some serial port equipment so I would be interested in that port. I can hack a serial port device in less than a day, and the software, at least for Windows/Linux is easy too. There aren't any PCIe boards or USB->serial converters that work? I would like to know, I've never tried.
What you're showing is still only a subset of what Hp is offering. It's convenient to ignore that fact.
And you do need serial and parallel. I have equipment that I can't use on a Mac because it needs either.
Test equipment, for example. That's why Apple can't compete in some markets. And the makers of those ports for the Mac left when the Mac's marketshare went south a few years ago.
Ok but Apple has never ever offered serial or parallel ports in their computers, ever...so they're not going to start now...it's not like these things are jacking up the price anyway...these ports cost what? 10 dollars at most for Intel to slap onto the board? There aren't very many serial and parallel devices anymore...it'd be unjustifiable to add these legacy ports on a 2006 niche computer that would hardly make use of them.
Quote:
Apple doesn't offer that board at all, and the ones that come with the machine are cheaper game boards. I bet you can get ANY board for the Hp.
I would pick the 2.33 Xeon. The G5 is a dead issue. Who cares?
Never state what Apple will do, and never put a price on it. The best you can do is to say that you think it would be a good idea for it.
If you happen to be about right, it's just luck. everyone comes out with a prediction of what Apple will do. someone has to be lucky. But it means nothing.
It means common sense and a bit of logic.
Quote:
Apple simply has nothing to compete, despite what you say. That 3 year onsite warranty is worth $300 by itself. When you add Apple's extended one to the price it still isn't quite as good.
True...I'll give you that. I don't understand why AppleCare is seperate...smells like a QuickTime-Pro-type of way to nickel and dime customers to me.
And you do need serial and parallel. I have equipment that I can't use on a Mac because it needs either.
Test equipment, for example. That's why Apple can't compete in some markets. And the makers of those ports for the Mac left when the Mac's marketshare went south a few years ago.
Apple has AFAIK never offered RS232 or Parallel ports on their Macs so I can't imagine that market is large. I'm surprised to see them on PCs even these days.
How old is your equipment ?
I've got old SCSI scanners and ZIP drives from 6-7 years ago but I've not bought a printer or scanner since then that wasn't USB or ethernet. Similarly, apart from some old Palm serial port based docks from 1999, I don't think anything like that hasn't come with USB since about then too.
I really think Apple has to try and hit the same price points as it's old G5 desktops otherwise the Intel switch will just be seen as being more expensive than PowerPC. Machines that come in just a bit quicker than what we had 3 years ago but more expensive just will not do.
I have made some serial port equipment so I would be interested in that port. I can hack a serial port device in less than a day, and the software, at least for Windows/Linux is easy too. There aren't any PCIe boards or USB->serial converters that work? I would like to know, I've never tried.
USB to serial or parallel converters rarely work with test equipment, because there are timing issues with USB. Equipment must be designed to use it. Much equipment requires serial control. Pro audio recorders use serial, as does other audio equipment.There are boards for the PC, but none for the PCIE Mac. Hopefully there will be. But, that uses a slot, and here we go again about that.
[B]Ok but Apple has never ever offered serial or parallel ports in their computers, ever...so they're not going to start now...it's not like these things are jacking up the price anyway...these ports cost what? 10 dollars at most for Intel to slap onto the board? There aren't very many serial and parallel devices anymore...it'd be unjustifiable to add these legacy ports on a 2006 niche computer that would hardly make use of them.
Apple has always offered serial ports. Until they went to USB.
Quote:
It means common sense and a bit of logic.
I wish that were true.
Quote:
True...I'll give you that. I don't understand why AppleCare is seperate...smells like a QuickTime-Pro-type of way to nickel and dime customers to me.
Apple has AFAIK never offered RS232 or Parallel ports on their Macs so I can't imagine that market is large. I'm surprised to see them on PCs even these days.
How old is your equipment ?
I've got old SCSI scanners and ZIP drives from 6-7 years ago but I've not bought a printer or scanner since then that wasn't USB or ethernet. Similarly, apart from some old Palm serial port based docks from 1999, I don't think anything like that hasn't come with USB since about then too.
I really think Apple has to try and hit the same price points as it's old G5 desktops otherwise the Intel switch will just be seen as being more expensive than PowerPC. Machines that come in just a bit quicker than what we had 3 years ago but more expensive just will not do.
Apple has always offered serial. It would work, with an adapter, with most serial controlled equipment.
Apple has always offered serial ports. Until they went to USB.
Well they were serial ports, yes, but only RS-422 and quite often limited speedwise. Anyway, old legacy serial ports have no place on modern kit for the majority of people.
If you want serial ports, then buy a card for them. If there's no card for them then that's pretty indicative of their being no real demand for serial ports.
Comments
Originally posted by JCG
My guess is that Apple will wait for the Xserves till later in the year, somewhere around October to November, and concentrate on getting the Pro and Consumer hardware updated.
Honestly - drop-in three sentences at WWDC, at best. Followed by a write up in tech magazines about the TCO, and how it's a great bargain, as the current XServe apparently was at one point.
"10.5 Server will drastically reduce the messenging lag in the Darwin kernel, making it even better for servers. Which reminds me... we've got a new Xserve: 2 x 2.33 and 2 x 2.66 Xeon 5100s, room for 4 HDDs <insert 1-2 more features here>, all at the competitive price of <price>. Additionally, 10.5 Server has..."
Originally posted by JeffDM
The Precision 690 offers both 50xx and 51xx options, you have to pick "choose", then "continue" to configure the system and it will show the processor options. The 51xxs show a shipping delay though. A 1.6GHz 5110 single shows up at the same price as a single 3.0GHz 5050. The cheapest Woodcrest with only one chip is $1730, the cheapest Woodcrest dual-dual is about $2100 US. An otherwise minimal 3.0GHz 5160 quad runs to $3940.
I was shopping the precision 490 instead of the 690 as they started at a cheaper price, more like Apple's. I then customozed mini-Tower with XP Pro x64 edition, to match Apple's 64 bit approach. Cheapest Woodcreast, the 1.6GHz 5110, no 2nd CPU and cheapest video card, and Apple Std. 1GB of RAM and 160GB HD (not cheapest, but lowest end for current G5) and combo drive, 2nd Ethernet to match current G5, keyboard and optical mouse, 1394a card ( a compromise at only FireWire 400), Finally, I save some money on the cheapest support option of 3 years and the price thus was $2250, just a tad more than Apple's $2000 base model pricing. For the same price, I could have done a (dual core) Xeon 5050 at 3GHz but only 667MHz RAM. That probably would sound better for a non-quad machine.
Originally posted by BradMacPro
I was shopping the precision 490 instead of the 690 as they started at a cheaper price, more like Apple's. I then customozed mini-Tower with XP Pro x64 edition, to match Apple's 64 bit approach. Cheapest Woodcreast, the 1.6GHz 5110, no 2nd CPU and cheapest video card, and Apple Std. 1GB of RAM and 160GB HD (not cheapest, but lowest end for current G5) and combo drive, 2nd Ethernet to match current G5, keyboard and optical mouse, 1394a card ( a compromise at only FireWire 400), Finally, I save some money on the cheapest support option of 3 years and the price thus was $2250, just a tad more than Apple's $2000 base model pricing. For the same price, I could have done a (dual core) Xeon 5050 at 3GHz but only 667MHz RAM. That probably would sound better for a non-quad machine.
You are right, I didn't look that hard at the 490. It's a little closer if you put in the Applecare ($250) to bring the G5's support up to three years to match the Dell's.
Originally posted by JeffDM
You are right, I didn't look that hard at the 490. It's a little closer if you put in the Applecare ($250) to bring the G5's support up to three years to match the Dell's.
Very true. good point to even things up. Of course Apple doesn't market their computers as "Workstations" even if they have nearly the same power. I think Apple might use a Core 2 Extreme in the non-quad desktop. it seems to be a cheaper way to go. Only Woodcrest is needed in a Quad machine.
Dell has features as standard that Apple doesn't offer, and Apple has much more expensive cases that Dell doesn't offer. The designs are totally different, and sell into different markets, for the most part. Dell also can get better pricing on parts than Apple can, due to much greater volume. Dell also can sell for less because of their direct model, while Apple still sells most of its models through the distribution system.
If Apple's prices are about the same, then they are for very different reasons. I don't think that looking through Dells lists really helps judge what Apple can do. Any similarities are likely coincidental.
Originally posted by BradMacPro
Very true. good point to even things up. Of course Apple doesn't market their computers as "Workstations" even if they have nearly the same power. I think Apple might use a Core 2 Extreme in the non-quad desktop. it seems to be a cheaper way to go. Only Woodcrest is needed in a Quad machine.
They might not say that in their literature and their site, but I would suggest that they both have the same kind of buyers and the same general uses, the same general pricing. If Apple continues their plan of non-upgradable duals, then their one-processor unit certainly won't need to be Woodcrest.
HP's got a single 2.33GHz 5140 Woodcrest for $2869
Originally posted by BradMacPro
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...5-3224812.html
HP's got a single 2.33GHz 5140 Woodcrest for $2869
Interesting...that's a pretty fat margin they're taking in._ I hope Apple will be more competitive than that...that's almost a 50% margin if I were to guess...there's not more than 2000 worth of parts in that HP._ If I were to guess, I'd say there is 1600 dollars of parts in there.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Interesting...that's a pretty fat margin they're taking in._ I hope Apple will be more competitive than that...that's almost a 50% margin if I were to guess...there's not more than 2000 worth of parts in that HP._ If I were to guess, I'd say there is 1600 dollars of parts in there.
I thought someone would find that interesting. But HP is known to have better margins than Dell, but then again Apple is known for fatter margins too. I can't wait to see what's up Apple's sleeve.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Interesting...that's a pretty fat margin they're taking in._ I hope Apple will be more competitive than that...that's almost a 50% margin if I were to guess...there's not more than 2000 worth of parts in that HP._ If I were to guess, I'd say there is 1600 dollars of parts in there.
I think that a good look at what Hp is offering on this machine is in order first. If Apple offered the same, we would be in ecstasy!
160GB SATA drive
16x/48x DVD
2 - 3.5" internal
2 - 5.25" external
1 - 3.5" external
4 PCIe slots 16, 4, 4
2 PCI slots
Front ports
1 Mic
USB 2
1 Firewire
1 audio out
rear ports
5 USB 2
1 serial
2 PS/2
1 rj-45 (NIC)
1 audio in
1 audio out
1 mic in
1 parallel
1USB 2 (not sure what that means)
Nvidia Quadro NVS 285 128MB PCIe card.
10/100/1000 NIC
Data center grade power supply
3 year warranty ? including labor, AND onsite service!
When Apple offers us something like that, for a lower price, then we can say that Hp is making a fat margin.
The Nvidia Quadro NVS 285 128MB PCIe card is a 160 dollar card.
Apple already offers USB 2, Firewire, audio in/out, RJ-45 (obviously)...we don't need serial, parallel or PS/2.
Apple already offers 4 PCIe slots.
Apple already offers 160GB SATAs.
All of this for $1999...and this isn't no ordinary $1999...these 1999 dollars are on a 7 month old product which is probably worth no more than $1499 now. So in a sense, Apple is offering almost all of that *right now* and the PowerMac G5 could be very competitive *right now* if Apple had a "don't-screw-the customer" policy.
The only enticing features on the HP is the expansion. If I had to choose between a 2900 dollar 2.33GHz Xeon and a 1499 dollar 2.00GHz G5, I'd pick the G5 (probably also because I don't need the expandability though...but whatever).
The next round of pro towers from Apple will certainly have 1GB of RAM min and will retain the same price as a worst case scenario...so I'm fairly certain we'll see the 2.33GHz Xeon and everything we see on the current G5s (and, therefore, the HP) with the exception of 1GB less RAM for $1999.
The only things that are expensive in that HP is the processor and the mobo which probably doesn't add up to more than $1000 if we pretend the mobo is $500 and that HP doesn't get any deal from Intel.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Apple already offers_10/100/1000 NICs.
The Nvidia Quadro NVS 285 128MB PCIe card is a 160 dollar card.
Apple already offers USB 2, Firewire, audio in/out, RJ-45 (obviously)...we don't need serial, parallel or PS/2.
Apple already offers 4 PCIe slots.
Apple already offers 160GB SATAs.
All of this for $1999...and this isn't no ordinary $1999...these 1999 dollars are on a 7 month old product which is probably worth no more than $1499 now. So in a sense, Apple is offering almost all of that *right now* and the PowerMac G5 could be very competitive *right now* if Apple had a "don't-screw-the customer" policy.
The only enticing features on the HP is the expansion. If I had to choose between a 2900 dollar 2.33GHz Xeon and a 1499 dollar 2.00GHz G5, I'd pick the G5 (probably also because I don't need the expandability though...but whatever).
The next round of pro towers from Apple will certainly have 1GB of RAM min and will retain the same price as a worst case scenario...so I'm fairly certain we'll see the 2.33GHz Xeon and everything we see on the current G5s (and, therefore, the HP) with the exception of 1GB less RAM for $1999.
The only things that are expensive in that HP is the processor and the mobo which probably doesn't add up to more than $1000 if we pretend the mobo is $500 and that HP doesn't get any deal from Intel.
What you're showing is still only a subset of what Hp is offering. It's convenient to ignore that fact.
And you do need serial and parallel. I have equipment that I can't use on a Mac because it needs either.
Test equipment, for example. That's why Apple can't compete in some markets. And the makers of those ports for the Mac left when the Mac's marketshare went south a few years ago.
Apple doesn't offer that board at all, and the ones that come with the machine are cheaper game boards. I bet you can get ANY board for the Hp.
I would pick the 2.33 Xeon. The G5 is a dead issue. Who cares?
Never state what Apple will do, and never put a price on it. The best you can do is to say that you think it would be a good idea for it.
If you happen to be about right, it's just luck. everyone comes out with a prediction of what Apple will do. someone has to be lucky. But it means nothing.
Apple simply has nothing to compete, despite what you say. That 3 year onsite warranty is worth $300 by itself. When you add Apple's extended one to the price it still isn't quite as good.
Originally posted by melgross
What you're showing is still only a subset of what Hp is offering. It's convenient to ignore that fact.
And you do need serial and parallel. I have equipment that I can't use on a Mac because it needs either.
Test equipment, for example. That's why Apple can't compete in some markets. And the makers of those ports for the Mac left when the Mac's marketshare went south a few years ago.
I have made some serial port equipment so I would be interested in that port. I can hack a serial port device in less than a day, and the software, at least for Windows/Linux is easy too. There aren't any PCIe boards or USB->serial converters that work? I would like to know, I've never tried.
Originally posted by melgross
What you're showing is still only a subset of what Hp is offering. It's convenient to ignore that fact.
And you do need serial and parallel. I have equipment that I can't use on a Mac because it needs either.
Test equipment, for example. That's why Apple can't compete in some markets. And the makers of those ports for the Mac left when the Mac's marketshare went south a few years ago.
Ok but Apple has never ever offered serial or parallel ports in their computers, ever...so they're not going to start now...it's not like these things are jacking up the price anyway...these ports cost what? 10 dollars at most for Intel to slap onto the board? There aren't very many serial and parallel devices anymore...it'd be unjustifiable to add these legacy ports on a 2006 niche computer that would hardly make use of them.
Apple doesn't offer that board at all, and the ones that come with the machine are cheaper game boards. I bet you can get ANY board for the Hp.
I would pick the 2.33 Xeon. The G5 is a dead issue. Who cares?
Never state what Apple will do, and never put a price on it. The best you can do is to say that you think it would be a good idea for it.
If you happen to be about right, it's just luck. everyone comes out with a prediction of what Apple will do. someone has to be lucky. But it means nothing.
It means common sense and a bit of logic.
Apple simply has nothing to compete, despite what you say. That 3 year onsite warranty is worth $300 by itself. When you add Apple's extended one to the price it still isn't quite as good.
True...I'll give you that. I don't understand why AppleCare is seperate...smells like a QuickTime-Pro-type of way to nickel and dime customers to me.
Originally posted by melgross
And you do need serial and parallel. I have equipment that I can't use on a Mac because it needs either.
Test equipment, for example. That's why Apple can't compete in some markets. And the makers of those ports for the Mac left when the Mac's marketshare went south a few years ago.
Apple has AFAIK never offered RS232 or Parallel ports on their Macs so I can't imagine that market is large. I'm surprised to see them on PCs even these days.
How old is your equipment ?
I've got old SCSI scanners and ZIP drives from 6-7 years ago but I've not bought a printer or scanner since then that wasn't USB or ethernet. Similarly, apart from some old Palm serial port based docks from 1999, I don't think anything like that hasn't come with USB since about then too.
I really think Apple has to try and hit the same price points as it's old G5 desktops otherwise the Intel switch will just be seen as being more expensive than PowerPC. Machines that come in just a bit quicker than what we had 3 years ago but more expensive just will not do.
Originally posted by JeffDM
I have made some serial port equipment so I would be interested in that port. I can hack a serial port device in less than a day, and the software, at least for Windows/Linux is easy too. There aren't any PCIe boards or USB->serial converters that work? I would like to know, I've never tried.
USB to serial or parallel converters rarely work with test equipment, because there are timing issues with USB. Equipment must be designed to use it. Much equipment requires serial control. Pro audio recorders use serial, as does other audio equipment.There are boards for the PC, but none for the PCIE Mac. Hopefully there will be. But, that uses a slot, and here we go again about that.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
[B]Ok but Apple has never ever offered serial or parallel ports in their computers, ever...so they're not going to start now...it's not like these things are jacking up the price anyway...these ports cost what? 10 dollars at most for Intel to slap onto the board? There aren't very many serial and parallel devices anymore...it'd be unjustifiable to add these legacy ports on a 2006 niche computer that would hardly make use of them.
Apple has always offered serial ports. Until they went to USB.
It means common sense and a bit of logic.
I wish that were true.
True...I'll give you that. I don't understand why AppleCare is seperate...smells like a QuickTime-Pro-type of way to nickel and dime customers to me.
No, it's just a professional level of service.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Apple has AFAIK never offered RS232 or Parallel ports on their Macs so I can't imagine that market is large. I'm surprised to see them on PCs even these days.
How old is your equipment ?
I've got old SCSI scanners and ZIP drives from 6-7 years ago but I've not bought a printer or scanner since then that wasn't USB or ethernet. Similarly, apart from some old Palm serial port based docks from 1999, I don't think anything like that hasn't come with USB since about then too.
I really think Apple has to try and hit the same price points as it's old G5 desktops otherwise the Intel switch will just be seen as being more expensive than PowerPC. Machines that come in just a bit quicker than what we had 3 years ago but more expensive just will not do.
Apple has always offered serial. It would work, with an adapter, with most serial controlled equipment.
http://francis.courtois.free.fr/jc1/...IN8toDB25.html
Other manufacturers offeres RS 232 and higher, serial cards with as many as 8 ports.
New equipment still uses this, and will for many years. Serial control is standard in many industries. From audio recorders to genome sequencers.
There's quite a bit of equipment out there.
http://www.mks.zp.ua/serial-port-monitor.php
http://www.yamaha.co.uk/xg/html/software/s_serial.htm
http://www.quatech.com/catalog/rs232_pcmcia.php
http://www.quatech.com/applications/applications.php
This is just a very small number of links from Google. There are a vast number of devices out there. It's by no means a dead technology.
Originally posted by melgross
Apple has always offered serial ports. Until they went to USB.
Well they were serial ports, yes, but only RS-422 and quite often limited speedwise. Anyway, old legacy serial ports have no place on modern kit for the majority of people.
If you want serial ports, then buy a card for them. If there's no card for them then that's pretty indicative of their being no real demand for serial ports.