Sorry, I didn't know your situation. Yes, Apple has changed the printing APIs, and more than once, which has fustrated many a printer driver writer. They also tripped up scanner drivers too when 10.3 came out. The pace at which Apple released major OS upgrades also made several companies give up on the Mac. Such is life. I keep seeing this online banner ad for TypeStyler, which was a cool type effects program for OS 9. Never made it to OS X, but the ad has been saying for about two years that a OS X version is on it's way. In about 2 weeks, there won't be any Macs that can run Classic anymore. That's assuming Apple drops the PM G5. "Progress is our greatest stumbling block"
Makes you wonder how a company can put out full OS upgrades every year in addition to a very large library of pro software and 'digital-lifestyle' software and other companies can't even update one little app.
Makes you wonder how a company can put out full OS upgrades every year in addition to a very large library of pro software and 'digital-lifestyle' software and other companies can't even update one little app.
Dingdingding!
Indeed.
The "oh, but Apple keeps changing the APIs! That means more work for us!" is a bullshit excuse.
Makes you wonder how a company can put out full OS upgrades every year in addition to a very large library of pro software and 'digital-lifestyle' software and other companies can't even update one little app.
Apple has a lot of software developers, paid by iPod sales. 1/2 of Apple's income is from iPod sales. Anyway, assuming Leopard doesn't change printing and scanning, Tiger already ships with a ton of universal printer drivers and a universal epson scanner driver, but I don't know which models that covers.
The "oh, but Apple keeps changing the APIs! That means more work for us!" is a bullshit excuse.
Indeed it is and it's not helped by some of the same manufacturers hanging on to ancient APIs that Apple have all along said were going to be deprecated. On the other side of the coin, Apple hadn't finalised replacement APIs up until 10.3 in many cases and even then, they don't offer all the features of the old API.
I've an Epson scanner with a horrible driver that hasn't been really updated since OS8. I know when I'm using it because the fans come on and my computer grinds to a crawl. Presumably all the right APIs are in place now though as Apple's own Image Capture application works fine with it and doesn't suck the computer into a black hole during use.
The problem seems to be that these companies expect driver models to change once every decade as happens with Windows, not every couple of years as Apple have done. Constant transitions and development are beyond what they're willing to spend.
It's easy for you guys who never use equipment that requires these interfaces, because you really don't know much about it. You just deal with the computer as is, and some do some programming work for stuff in the computer industry itself, but not these sophisticated pieces of biomedical equipment and such. If you did, you'd know.
And that big expensive sophisticated kit can't be accessed with a $179 serial card?
Point I'm making, I'm sure there's still a need for serial comms in some situations but they're becoming more and more niche and specialist to the point where you could probably charge ridiculous amounts like $179 for a serial card and it's still a tiny fraction of the cost of a system.
This morning, I bought a printer driver for £150. Twice the cost of the whole stinkin OS. The client didn't bat an eyelid as it saves them thousands over the year to use Macs still.
The problem seems to be that these companies expect driver models to change once every decade as happens with Windows, not every couple of years as Apple have done. Constant transitions and development are beyond what they're willing to spend.
Unfortunately, though, it's not their loss, but the customers' loss and Apple's loss. So it's really an unfair decision of theirs.
Sorry, I didn't know your situation. Yes, Apple has changed the printing APIs, and more than once, which has fustrated many a printer driver writer. They also tripped up scanner drivers too when 10.3 came out. The pace at which Apple released major OS upgrades also made several companies give up on the Mac. Such is life. I keep seeing this online banner ad for TypeStyler, which was a cool type effects program for OS 9. Never made it to OS X, but the ad has been saying for about two years that a OS X version is on it's way. In about 2 weeks, there won't be any Macs that can run Classic anymore. That's assuming Apple drops the PM G5. "Progress is our greatest stumbling block"
By the way, I just noticed, on reading your post that I referred to 10.5. Sorry, I meant to write, 10.4.5 and up. But, I wonder what will be done in 10.5 about these issues, as I know that I'm, by far, not the only one unhappy.
The "oh, but Apple keeps changing the APIs! That means more work for us!" is a bullshit excuse.
no, it's not. When the API's are removed, it makes interfacing very difficult. Then companies have to do work that may not be compatable in the next OS release, or even the next update. This is a serious problem.
no, it's not. When the API's are removed, it makes interfacing very difficult. Then companies have to do work that may not be compatable in the next OS release, or even the next update. This is a serious problem.
You are vastly overestimating the amount of work it takes to write a printer driver.
And that big expensive sophisticated kit can't be accessed with a $179 serial card?
Point I'm making, I'm sure there's still a need for serial comms in some situations but they're becoming more and more niche and specialist to the point where you could probably charge ridiculous amounts like $179 for a serial card and it's still a tiny fraction of the cost of a system.
This morning, I bought a printer driver for £150. Twice the cost of the whole stinkin OS. The client didn't bat an eyelid as it saves them thousands over the year to use Macs still.
No, they can't be, because there aren't the appropriate cards available.
If the cards were there, the problem wouldn't exist, and we wouldn't be talking about it now! I had Wolf cards with four and eight serial port cables. None of these work with OS X, because the manufacturer told me that Apple removed the required software, and the development work was simply too much expense. They still have their Windows product lines.
It really is NOT too much to ask Apple to support these standards. This is one reason why they are not taken more seriously in business. They are too arbitrary in what they will support.
It's also one of the reasons why many of their own technologies have died out. It's one of the reasons why firewire is dying out.
In a year or two, when all external HD's, DVR, etc are using either SATA ot USB 2, will people here be crying out for Apple to drop legacy support for Firewire, as only camcorders, and a few other items are the only ones using it?
You are vastly overestimating the amount of work it takes to write a printer driver.
No, I'm not. It's not JUST a printer driver. you should know that. I'm sure that Fuji, and others, have more expertise than any programmers here do. If they can find that it takes over a year to get around the limitations of the crippled software that Apple put out, I doubt that you would do any better.
This is nothing against you, or any others on this board who might do this work, but it's no nearly as simple as you would want us to think. If support for something is not in the OS, then is can be very difficult for a third part to add it. And when that lack of support itself changes over time, that makes it even more difficult.
No, I'm not. It's not JUST a printer driver. you should know that.
The part that relies on Apple's APIs, however, IS JUST a printer driver. The surrounding software is essentially RAD, and thanks to Carbon works across Mac OS 8 and Mac OS X 10.4.
Quote:
This is nothing against you, or any others on this board who might do this work, but it's no nearly as simple as you would want us to think.[
If the cards were there, the problem wouldn't exist, and we wouldn't be talking about it now! I had Wolf cards with four and eight serial port cables. None of these work with OS X, because the manufacturer told me that Apple removed the required software, and the development work was simply too much expense. They still have their Windows product lines.
Does the XServe's serial port support anything other than console management?
The part that relies on Apple's APIs, however, IS JUST a printer driver. The surrounding software is essentially RAD, and thanks to Carbon works across Mac OS 8 and Mac OS X 10.4.
What do you base that belief on?
The fact, that when I had my company, and all of the machines that used these interfaces began failing at the same time, and the companies, at first, had no idea as to why, but when they did research into what was happening, they all came up with the same conclusions, that Apple removed support for some required technologies from the OS.
At first, most had hopes that it wouldn't take long for them to fix the problems, but then they were reporting that the problems were more serious than believed. This was well known in the commercial photographic industry, and was reported in the industry publications. Manufacturers sent out letters enumerating the problems, and recommended that we revert to 10.2, which we, and others did, to run the machines until they could come up with solutions. some of those solutions never appeared.
SCSI, for example, is desirable for certain graphics arts printers because of the speed, and control, SCSI gives. Ethernet just isn't in the same league. I have had printers that used both, and the ethernet solution was much slower, even when they went to 1GHz connections. firewire was no better for this purpose.
Sometimes, the newer tech is NOT better than the old. I know that it was expected that 1.6GHz firewire would finally take over, but it has not appeared.
It's possible. This is pretty new. The older model had problems with 232 standards. It also depends on what speeds it operates at. Many boards that existed before, weren't fast enough for equipment that needed speeds up to 1Mbs.
Comments
Originally posted by BradMacPro
Sorry, I didn't know your situation. Yes, Apple has changed the printing APIs, and more than once, which has fustrated many a printer driver writer. They also tripped up scanner drivers too when 10.3 came out. The pace at which Apple released major OS upgrades also made several companies give up on the Mac. Such is life. I keep seeing this online banner ad for TypeStyler, which was a cool type effects program for OS 9. Never made it to OS X, but the ad has been saying for about two years that a OS X version is on it's way. In about 2 weeks, there won't be any Macs that can run Classic anymore. That's assuming Apple drops the PM G5. "Progress is our greatest stumbling block"
Makes you wonder how a company can put out full OS upgrades every year in addition to a very large library of pro software and 'digital-lifestyle' software and other companies can't even update one little app.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Makes you wonder how a company can put out full OS upgrades every year in addition to a very large library of pro software and 'digital-lifestyle' software and other companies can't even update one little app.
Dingdingding!
Indeed.
The "oh, but Apple keeps changing the APIs! That means more work for us!" is a bullshit excuse.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Makes you wonder how a company can put out full OS upgrades every year in addition to a very large library of pro software and 'digital-lifestyle' software and other companies can't even update one little app.
Apple has a lot of software developers, paid by iPod sales. 1/2 of Apple's income is from iPod sales. Anyway, assuming Leopard doesn't change printing and scanning, Tiger already ships with a ton of universal printer drivers and a universal epson scanner driver, but I don't know which models that covers.
Originally posted by Chucker
The "oh, but Apple keeps changing the APIs! That means more work for us!" is a bullshit excuse.
Indeed it is and it's not helped by some of the same manufacturers hanging on to ancient APIs that Apple have all along said were going to be deprecated. On the other side of the coin, Apple hadn't finalised replacement APIs up until 10.3 in many cases and even then, they don't offer all the features of the old API.
I've an Epson scanner with a horrible driver that hasn't been really updated since OS8. I know when I'm using it because the fans come on and my computer grinds to a crawl. Presumably all the right APIs are in place now though as Apple's own Image Capture application works fine with it and doesn't suck the computer into a black hole during use.
The problem seems to be that these companies expect driver models to change once every decade as happens with Windows, not every couple of years as Apple have done. Constant transitions and development are beyond what they're willing to spend.
Originally posted by melgross
It's easy for you guys who never use equipment that requires these interfaces, because you really don't know much about it. You just deal with the computer as is, and some do some programming work for stuff in the computer industry itself, but not these sophisticated pieces of biomedical equipment and such. If you did, you'd know.
And that big expensive sophisticated kit can't be accessed with a $179 serial card?
Point I'm making, I'm sure there's still a need for serial comms in some situations but they're becoming more and more niche and specialist to the point where you could probably charge ridiculous amounts like $179 for a serial card and it's still a tiny fraction of the cost of a system.
This morning, I bought a printer driver for £150. Twice the cost of the whole stinkin OS. The client didn't bat an eyelid as it saves them thousands over the year to use Macs still.
Originally posted by BradMacPro
Apple has a lot of software developers, paid by iPod sales.
Writing a printer driver doesn't take more than a few developers, if even that. Not much rocket science to it.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
The problem seems to be that these companies expect driver models to change once every decade as happens with Windows, not every couple of years as Apple have done. Constant transitions and development are beyond what they're willing to spend.
Unfortunately, though, it's not their loss, but the customers' loss and Apple's loss. So it's really an unfair decision of theirs.
Originally posted by BradMacPro
Sorry, I didn't know your situation. Yes, Apple has changed the printing APIs, and more than once, which has fustrated many a printer driver writer. They also tripped up scanner drivers too when 10.3 came out. The pace at which Apple released major OS upgrades also made several companies give up on the Mac. Such is life. I keep seeing this online banner ad for TypeStyler, which was a cool type effects program for OS 9. Never made it to OS X, but the ad has been saying for about two years that a OS X version is on it's way. In about 2 weeks, there won't be any Macs that can run Classic anymore. That's assuming Apple drops the PM G5. "Progress is our greatest stumbling block"
By the way, I just noticed, on reading your post that I referred to 10.5. Sorry, I meant to write, 10.4.5 and up. But, I wonder what will be done in 10.5 about these issues, as I know that I'm, by far, not the only one unhappy.
Originally posted by Chucker
Dingdingding!
Indeed.
The "oh, but Apple keeps changing the APIs! That means more work for us!" is a bullshit excuse.
no, it's not. When the API's are removed, it makes interfacing very difficult. Then companies have to do work that may not be compatable in the next OS release, or even the next update. This is a serious problem.
Originally posted by melgross
no, it's not. When the API's are removed, it makes interfacing very difficult. Then companies have to do work that may not be compatable in the next OS release, or even the next update. This is a serious problem.
You are vastly overestimating the amount of work it takes to write a printer driver.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
And that big expensive sophisticated kit can't be accessed with a $179 serial card?
Point I'm making, I'm sure there's still a need for serial comms in some situations but they're becoming more and more niche and specialist to the point where you could probably charge ridiculous amounts like $179 for a serial card and it's still a tiny fraction of the cost of a system.
This morning, I bought a printer driver for £150. Twice the cost of the whole stinkin OS. The client didn't bat an eyelid as it saves them thousands over the year to use Macs still.
No, they can't be, because there aren't the appropriate cards available.
If the cards were there, the problem wouldn't exist, and we wouldn't be talking about it now! I had Wolf cards with four and eight serial port cables. None of these work with OS X, because the manufacturer told me that Apple removed the required software, and the development work was simply too much expense. They still have their Windows product lines.
It really is NOT too much to ask Apple to support these standards. This is one reason why they are not taken more seriously in business. They are too arbitrary in what they will support.
It's also one of the reasons why many of their own technologies have died out. It's one of the reasons why firewire is dying out.
In a year or two, when all external HD's, DVR, etc are using either SATA ot USB 2, will people here be crying out for Apple to drop legacy support for Firewire, as only camcorders, and a few other items are the only ones using it?
Originally posted by Chucker
You are vastly overestimating the amount of work it takes to write a printer driver.
No, I'm not. It's not JUST a printer driver. you should know that. I'm sure that Fuji, and others, have more expertise than any programmers here do. If they can find that it takes over a year to get around the limitations of the crippled software that Apple put out, I doubt that you would do any better.
This is nothing against you, or any others on this board who might do this work, but it's no nearly as simple as you would want us to think. If support for something is not in the OS, then is can be very difficult for a third part to add it. And when that lack of support itself changes over time, that makes it even more difficult.
Originally posted by melgross
No, I'm not. It's not JUST a printer driver. you should know that.
The part that relies on Apple's APIs, however, IS JUST a printer driver. The surrounding software is essentially RAD, and thanks to Carbon works across Mac OS 8 and Mac OS X 10.4.
This is nothing against you, or any others on this board who might do this work, but it's no nearly as simple as you would want us to think.[
What do you base that belief on?
Originally posted by melgross
If the cards were there, the problem wouldn't exist, and we wouldn't be talking about it now! I had Wolf cards with four and eight serial port cables. None of these work with OS X, because the manufacturer told me that Apple removed the required software, and the development work was simply too much expense. They still have their Windows product lines.
Does the XServe's serial port support anything other than console management?
Originally posted by melgross
No, they can't be, because there aren't the appropriate cards available.
So this ...
http://www.keyspan.com/products/sxpr....2.compat.spml
... is no good ?
Originally posted by JeffDM
Does the XServe's serial port support anything other than console management?
Serial port is sometime also used in servers by UPS products. But these days they work with USB as well.
However, they sell various USB equivalents.
Ridiculous pricing if you ask me, but, hey, if it works?
Originally posted by Chucker
The part that relies on Apple's APIs, however, IS JUST a printer driver. The surrounding software is essentially RAD, and thanks to Carbon works across Mac OS 8 and Mac OS X 10.4.
What do you base that belief on?
The fact, that when I had my company, and all of the machines that used these interfaces began failing at the same time, and the companies, at first, had no idea as to why, but when they did research into what was happening, they all came up with the same conclusions, that Apple removed support for some required technologies from the OS.
At first, most had hopes that it wouldn't take long for them to fix the problems, but then they were reporting that the problems were more serious than believed. This was well known in the commercial photographic industry, and was reported in the industry publications. Manufacturers sent out letters enumerating the problems, and recommended that we revert to 10.2, which we, and others did, to run the machines until they could come up with solutions. some of those solutions never appeared.
SCSI, for example, is desirable for certain graphics arts printers because of the speed, and control, SCSI gives. Ethernet just isn't in the same league. I have had printers that used both, and the ethernet solution was much slower, even when they went to 1GHz connections. firewire was no better for this purpose.
Sometimes, the newer tech is NOT better than the old. I know that it was expected that 1.6GHz firewire would finally take over, but it has not appeared.
Originally posted by JeffDM
Does the XServe's serial port support anything other than console management?
I'm not too familiar with the XServe.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
So this ...
http://www.keyspan.com/products/sxpr....2.compat.spml
... is no good ?
It's possible. This is pretty new. The older model had problems with 232 standards. It also depends on what speeds it operates at. Many boards that existed before, weren't fast enough for equipment that needed speeds up to 1Mbs.