Um, I don't have an answer to that. My whole video world just crashed down. All 1 and 2/3 classes of it.
USB, like the internet, and Ethernet, is packet based. It DOESN'T support streaming data. Firewire will watch the information going across the bus, and give bandwidth priority to streaming audio, or video data streams. USB knows nothing about such things. All data to USB is equal.
In fact, true USB 2 (Fast) will take USB 1 (Full Speed) packets, and hold them until the USB 2 packet size is equalled, and then pass it down.
Because of the packet system, audio and video signals get mixed up with any other signals on the bus, including bus chatter. That doesn't happen with Firewire, or other professional standards.
It's also why USB is often a poor substitute for RS-232, 485, and so forth.
Serial does NOT mean that signals are streamed, only that one follows the other.
EH! I just realized that this stupid board doesn't pass the last post along with the new one.
$699-799 Mac Mini (Media Center) w/ Tuner & 1.83 GHz Merom
$1199 iMac w/ 2.13 GHz Conroe
$1499 iMac w/ 2.4 GHz Conroe
$1099 xMac w/ 2.13 GHz Conroe
$1599 xMac w/ 2.67 GHz Conroe
$1999-2099 Mac Pro w/ Quad-2.00 Woodcrest
$2499-2699 Mac Pro w/ Quad-2.33 Woodcrest
$3200-3500 Mac Pro w/ Quad-3.00 Woodcrest
iMacs could move to x1800s, same size HDDs, still 17" & 20"
xMacs are like iMacs in components, but have removeable video cards, a spare HDD slot, and maybe a x4 PCIe? And are a mini-tower shape. 4 dual-channel RAM slots.
Mac Pros are Quads w/ a free optical slot, 2-3 free HDD slots, maybe SLI in the event of a miracle, and 8-12 RAM slots.
xMacs are slightly higher margin than iMacs (probably). This line-up also avoids making everyone happy - no $999 computer, and no 2.4 GHz xMac. I'm sure all those prices are doable (except maybe the low-end Mini price cut).
$699-799 Mac Mini (Media Center) w/ Tuner & 1.83 GHz Merom
Although the Mini Media center is really what everybody wants to see.
And many would like to see it as a re-introduction of the cube.
I think it would be cool to give it 4 firewire ports. Why you say? To show what they could be for, which is for individual family members to plug their individual FW drive, and record up to four programs simultaneously for instance while on vacation. This could help bring firewire back into the buzz word category, and show it's speed benefits for certain media. Anyway, just a thought.
If they do an xMac, I do hope they don't stick two optical drives and more ports than the curernt PowerMac on the front. It's already ugly enough. I also hope it's a lot smaller than that too.
I was looking through some of the initial Core 2 Duo Conroe machines from Dell and HP. Both come in at about $2000...
Both have got a lot of shit you don't want, like a card reader and a 2nd DVD-ROM drive and more USB ports than you can eat but both the Dell and the HP have two SATA drives in a RAID 1 config.
For mid range machines, that's surprising and makes me wonder if Apple will also go RAID in the MacPro.
At that distance, it's should be hard to see they have rounded corners.
Quote:
Both have got a lot of shit you don't want, like a card reader and a 2nd DVD-ROM drive and more USB ports than you can eat but both the Dell and the HP have two SATA drives in a RAID 1 config.
For mid range machines, that's surprising and makes me wonder if Apple will also go RAID in the MacPro.
I would want that many USB ports. I have that many ports in use on my PowerMac.
I don't think it would have been any trouble for Apple to offer a shipping RAID 0 or RAID 1 several years ago, that's never required hardware not already included in the machines. But that means paying Apple's prices for the upgraded drives, for Apple's 2x 500GB (the biggest they offer), one can buy 2x 750GB.
[B]At that distance, it's should be hard to see they have rounded corners.
I would want that many USB ports. I have that many ports in use on my PowerMac.
I don't think it would have been any trouble for Apple to offer a shipping RAID 0 or RAID 1 several years ago, that's never required hardware not already included in the machines. But that means paying Apple's prices for the upgraded drives, for Apple's 2x 500GB (the biggest they offer), one can buy 2x 750GB.
Why are people always hoping that Apple will ship RAID, when they have already, for years?
Just go to Disk Utility, and you will see it there. Order a two drive config, and it takes all of five minutes to set up.
If you think that Apple charges too much, buy the second drive from Newegg.com.
Yeah, but as I said, it's probably higher margin. You save a decent bit on that screen and an iSight, and on engineering (less cooling b/c it's bigger).
Why are people always hoping that Apple will ship RAID, when they have already, for years?
Because they don't ship it preconfigured as a standard option. HP and Dell are shipping this as STANDARD. Unusual for a mid level desktop worker-bee config.
Yeah, but as I said, it's probably higher margin. You save a decent bit on that screen and an iSight, and on engineering (less cooling b/c it's bigger).
I'd be very surprised if an iSight costs Apple more than $5. It's basically a cheap phone camera lens and a bit of ribbon cable.
Why are people always hoping that Apple will ship RAID, when they have already, for years?
Just go to Disk Utility, and you will see it there. Order a two drive config, and it takes all of five minutes to set up.
If you think that Apple charges too much, buy the second drive from Newegg.com.
The capability has been shipping for years, but not preconfigured. It doesn't take long to set up a stripe or mirror, but that means reinstalling the OS if you are striping the system volume.
I was more or less saying one is better off just getting the stock unit, dumping the stock drive with two drives from elsewhere.
It's quite possible it turns out worse: $1,999 Mac Pro 2.4Ghz Conroe.
2.0 and 2.33 GHz Xeon? I hope you mean two-processor for all of those, because a 2.3 GHz single-processor will get spanked by any computer over $1200. Remember that a Woodcrest is only 5% faster than a Conroe clock-for-clock, if that.
Same thing with a 2.4 GHz Conroe. Anything around $1500 with a Conroe will be similar performance-wise, and it'll look silly next to $1800 XPSs with 2.67 GHz Conroes.
Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. There are advantages to each. Hardware RAID isn't even faster all of the time. And the new software RAID's are just as reliable. It would be nice if Apple added more modes to it though.
Because they don't ship it preconfigured as a standard option. HP and Dell are shipping this as STANDARD. Unusual for a mid level desktop worker-bee config.
I agree. But, truthfully, anyone who really needs RAID shouldn't use that as an excuse not to set it up. As I said, it only takes five minutes. And anyone who really knows enough to need it can figure it out without any problem.
The capability has been shipping for years, but not preconfigured. It doesn't take long to set up a stripe or mirror, but that means reinstalling the OS if you are striping the system volume.
I was more or less saying one is better off just getting the stock unit, dumping the stock drive with two drives from elsewhere.
I answered the first part to Aegis.
I agree with the second part. I said that as well.
Comments
Originally posted by gregmightdothat
Um, I don't have an answer to that. My whole video world just crashed down. All 1 and 2/3 classes of it.
USB, like the internet, and Ethernet, is packet based. It DOESN'T support streaming data. Firewire will watch the information going across the bus, and give bandwidth priority to streaming audio, or video data streams. USB knows nothing about such things. All data to USB is equal.
In fact, true USB 2 (Fast) will take USB 1 (Full Speed) packets, and hold them until the USB 2 packet size is equalled, and then pass it down.
Because of the packet system, audio and video signals get mixed up with any other signals on the bus, including bus chatter. That doesn't happen with Firewire, or other professional standards.
It's also why USB is often a poor substitute for RS-232, 485, and so forth.
Serial does NOT mean that signals are streamed, only that one follows the other.
EH! I just realized that this stupid board doesn't pass the last post along with the new one.
Anybody want the desktop configuration like the Power Mac 7500-G3 had?
Wow. Like a monitor that sits on top of a rectangular casing? That's so retro, dude
$499 Mac Mini w/ 1.6 GHz Merom
$699-799 Mac Mini (Media Center) w/ Tuner & 1.83 GHz Merom
$1199 iMac w/ 2.13 GHz Conroe
$1499 iMac w/ 2.4 GHz Conroe
$1099 xMac w/ 2.13 GHz Conroe
$1599 xMac w/ 2.67 GHz Conroe
$1999-2099 Mac Pro w/ Quad-2.00 Woodcrest
$2499-2699 Mac Pro w/ Quad-2.33 Woodcrest
$3200-3500 Mac Pro w/ Quad-3.00 Woodcrest
iMacs could move to x1800s, same size HDDs, still 17" & 20"
xMacs are like iMacs in components, but have removeable video cards, a spare HDD slot, and maybe a x4 PCIe? And are a mini-tower shape. 4 dual-channel RAM slots.
Mac Pros are Quads w/ a free optical slot, 2-3 free HDD slots, maybe SLI in the event of a miracle, and 8-12 RAM slots.
xMacs are slightly higher margin than iMacs (probably). This line-up also avoids making everyone happy - no $999 computer, and no 2.4 GHz xMac. I'm sure all those prices are doable (except maybe the low-end Mini price cut).
Yeah, it's a bit of dream, but a doable one.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
$499 Mac Mini w/ 1.6 GHz Merom
$699-799 Mac Mini (Media Center) w/ Tuner & 1.83 GHz Merom
Although the Mini Media center is really what everybody wants to see.
And many would like to see it as a re-introduction of the cube.
I think it would be cool to give it 4 firewire ports. Why you say? To show what they could be for, which is for individual family members to plug their individual FW drive, and record up to four programs simultaneously for instance while on vacation. This could help bring firewire back into the buzz word category, and show it's speed benefits for certain media. Anyway, just a thought.
Originally posted by sunilraman
I like this as the midi-tower: (image below)
[/B]
Two Cameras? They should be rounded squares too.
If they do an xMac, I do hope they don't stick two optical drives and more ports than the curernt PowerMac on the front. It's already ugly enough. I also hope it's a lot smaller than that too.
I was looking through some of the initial Core 2 Duo Conroe machines from Dell and HP. Both come in at about $2000...
eg the Dell XPS 410
http://reviews.cnet.com/Dell_XPS_410...2.html?tag=nav
And HP d4600y
http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_...2.html?tag=nav
Both have got a lot of shit you don't want, like a card reader and a 2nd DVD-ROM drive and more USB ports than you can eat but both the Dell and the HP have two SATA drives in a RAID 1 config.
For mid range machines, that's surprising and makes me wonder if Apple will also go RAID in the MacPro.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Two Cameras? They should be rounded squares too.
At that distance, it's should be hard to see they have rounded corners.
Quote:
Both have got a lot of shit you don't want, like a card reader and a 2nd DVD-ROM drive and more USB ports than you can eat but both the Dell and the HP have two SATA drives in a RAID 1 config.
For mid range machines, that's surprising and makes me wonder if Apple will also go RAID in the MacPro.
I would want that many USB ports. I have that many ports in use on my PowerMac.
I don't think it would have been any trouble for Apple to offer a shipping RAID 0 or RAID 1 several years ago, that's never required hardware not already included in the machines. But that means paying Apple's prices for the upgraded drives, for Apple's 2x 500GB (the biggest they offer), one can buy 2x 750GB.
Originally posted by JeffDM
[B]At that distance, it's should be hard to see they have rounded corners.
I would want that many USB ports. I have that many ports in use on my PowerMac.
I don't think it would have been any trouble for Apple to offer a shipping RAID 0 or RAID 1 several years ago, that's never required hardware not already included in the machines. But that means paying Apple's prices for the upgraded drives, for Apple's 2x 500GB (the biggest they offer), one can buy 2x 750GB.
Why are people always hoping that Apple will ship RAID, when they have already, for years?
Just go to Disk Utility, and you will see it there. Order a two drive config, and it takes all of five minutes to set up.
If you think that Apple charges too much, buy the second drive from Newegg.com.
Originally posted by onlooker
xMac AFA/APPLE/IC will cannibalize iMac sales.
Yeah, but as I said, it's probably higher margin. You save a decent bit on that screen and an iSight, and on engineering (less cooling b/c it's bigger).
Originally posted by melgross
Why are people always hoping that Apple will ship RAID, when they have already, for years?
Because they don't ship it preconfigured as a standard option. HP and Dell are shipping this as STANDARD. Unusual for a mid level desktop worker-bee config.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
Yeah, but as I said, it's probably higher margin. You save a decent bit on that screen and an iSight, and on engineering (less cooling b/c it's bigger).
I'd be very surprised if an iSight costs Apple more than $5. It's basically a cheap phone camera lens and a bit of ribbon cable.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
My line prediction:
$499 Mac Mini w/ 1.6 GHz Merom
$699-799 Mac Mini (Media Center) w/ Tuner & 1.83 GHz Merom
Don't cream your pants.
Don't expect Merom in a Mac mini before 2007 or ever.
Yonah is good enough for this computer.
So 1.67 and 1.83 Ghz Core Duos and a price reduction at best.
No tuner. TV is teh mindkiller.
$1199 iMac w/ 2.13 GHz Conroe
$1499 iMac w/ 2.4 GHz Conroe
No price reduction with such specs.
Maybe a 1.83Ghz and 2.16Ghz Conroe.
For this revision.
$1099 xMac w/ 2.13 GHz Conroe
$1599 xMac w/ 2.67 GHz Conroe
Don't think so,
x-whateverMac will probally be a cheaper MacPro with higher prices and/or lower specs than your 2.67Ghz Conroe
$1999-2099 Mac Pro w/ Quad-2.00 Woodcrest
$2499-2699 Mac Pro w/ Quad-2.33 Woodcrest
$3200-3500 Mac Pro w/ Quad-3.00 Woodcrest
$1,999 Mac Pro 2.0Ghz Xeon
$2,499 Mac Pro 2.33Ghz Xeon
$3,299 Mac Pro 2.67Ghz quadcore Xeon
Maybe a BTO 3.0Ghz quadcore
It's quite possible it turns out worse: $1,999 Mac Pro 2.4Ghz Conroe.
Yeah, it's a bit of dream, but a doable one.
In 2007 or 2008.
Originally posted by melgross
Why are people always hoping that Apple will ship RAID, when they have already, for years?
Just go to Disk Utility, and you will see it there. Order a two drive config, and it takes all of five minutes to set up.
If you think that Apple charges too much, buy the second drive from Newegg.com.
The capability has been shipping for years, but not preconfigured. It doesn't take long to set up a stripe or mirror, but that means reinstalling the OS if you are striping the system volume.
I was more or less saying one is better off just getting the stock unit, dumping the stock drive with two drives from elsewhere.
Originally posted by gar
$1,999 Mac Pro 2.0Ghz Xeon
$2,499 Mac Pro 2.33Ghz Xeon
$3,299 Mac Pro 2.67Ghz quadcore Xeon
Maybe a BTO 3.0Ghz quadcore
It's quite possible it turns out worse: $1,999 Mac Pro 2.4Ghz Conroe.
2.0 and 2.33 GHz Xeon? I hope you mean two-processor for all of those, because a 2.3 GHz single-processor will get spanked by any computer over $1200. Remember that a Woodcrest is only 5% faster than a Conroe clock-for-clock, if that.
Same thing with a 2.4 GHz Conroe. Anything around $1500 with a Conroe will be similar performance-wise, and it'll look silly next to $1800 XPSs with 2.67 GHz Conroes.
Originally posted by Chucker
Software RAID is a far cry from hardware RAID.
Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. There are advantages to each. Hardware RAID isn't even faster all of the time. And the new software RAID's are just as reliable. It would be nice if Apple added more modes to it though.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Because they don't ship it preconfigured as a standard option. HP and Dell are shipping this as STANDARD. Unusual for a mid level desktop worker-bee config.
I agree. But, truthfully, anyone who really needs RAID shouldn't use that as an excuse not to set it up. As I said, it only takes five minutes. And anyone who really knows enough to need it can figure it out without any problem.
Originally posted by JeffDM
The capability has been shipping for years, but not preconfigured. It doesn't take long to set up a stripe or mirror, but that means reinstalling the OS if you are striping the system volume.
I was more or less saying one is better off just getting the stock unit, dumping the stock drive with two drives from elsewhere.
I answered the first part to Aegis.
I agree with the second part. I said that as well.