Apple releases Mac OS X 10.4.7 Update

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  • Reply 101 of 180
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Chucker

    ...That's it. If there's problems, roll back your backup. End of story...




    Is that roll back the backup with something like Carbon Copy or is that roll back as in reinstall then reload personal data?
  • Reply 102 of 180
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    Clearly "placebo" here has nothing to do with our good friend username "placebo"



    No, I definitely wasn't referring to Placebo.



    [QUOTE]Originally posted by sunilraman

    Quote:

    Originally posted by Chucker

    ...That's it. If there's problems, roll back your backup. End of story...




    Is that roll back the backup with something like Carbon Copy or is that roll back as in reinstall then reload personal data?



    No, roll back with Carbon Copy Cloner or similar. (My tool of choice is SuperDuper!, by a wide margin, for many reasons.)



    So, remember step 1), before you install the update. If you do that, then (assuming the update doesn't break hardware, which it most definitely won't) there's absolutely no harm whatsoever in proceeding to install the update. If it breaks your system, software-wise, just restore the update you created in step 1.
  • Reply 103 of 180
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    REPORT: ALL GOOD. No problems so far

    iBook G4 933mhz 640mb ram 60gb 5400rpm drive



    Downloaded http://www.apple.com/support/downloa...te1047ppc.html (64mb)



    Unplugged iPod, ran Disk Utility, repaired permissions,

    dropped the bullet in, spun the chamber, pulled the trigger.



    Just a few minutes upon restart with the blue and gray screen thingys

    But I could feel the hard disk working away.



    First restart no problems.

    Second restart and everything smooth.

    10.4.7 respected Dashboard disabling on one user,

    Deep Sleep (Hibernate), as well as ATIcellerator2 gpu overclock.



    Well, at least a "all okay" report for this thread.

    Good luck to y'all (Sincerely) with problems with this update.
  • Reply 104 of 180
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Chucker

    ... (My tool of choice is SuperDuper!, by a wide margin, for many reasons.)




    Yes, SuperDuper is very nice. Luckily, I did not have to call it into action
  • Reply 105 of 180
    gamringamrin Posts: 114member
    I just installed the update on my black Macbook with zero problems. Everything's running fine, so far as I can tell.



    In addition, the graphics card drivers were definitely tweaked. I'm getting up to +10 fps on WoW... for those who care. Considering that I'm running with integrated graphics, that's very significant.
  • Reply 106 of 180
    agnuke1707agnuke1707 Posts: 487member
    Updated through software update without doing a blessed thing before or after the update on my iMac G5. The update from 10.4.6 -> 10.4.7 was about 40MB. The restart took maybe double the time it normally does, but all is well. After startup I checked dashboard (qickt load time...) and all of my 15 widgets were okay. My 3rd party apps that I use the most like Word, Mathematica, Virtual PC, Toast, Adobe CS2, etc. are all still operating. I ran the maitenance and cleaning scripts with Onyx and then rebooted - boot time was back to normal. No problems on this end.



    I have used SU forever ... for any update I've ever had to my iMacs. I have NEVER encountered a problem with crazy drives, lost data, etc. It does make you wonder what's different about other machines that they have problems updating every time. Strange indeed. But yes, data back-up is a must for any OS you work on. I have never had to use my OS X backup (yet...) but my XP backup has come in handy a few times ... and Linux ... I leave that fun to people far more knowledgeable than myself!



    Good luck everybody...
  • Reply 107 of 180
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    I forgot to do a backup this time but thankfully it didn't bite me. I still have a backup that's a couple weeks old.



    Why is repairing permissions unnecessary? I'm curious how permissions get messed up and why people say that there aren't any consequences for that.
  • Reply 108 of 180
    iMac G5 updated flawlessly. I used the PPC Combo updater on both my Harddrive (Erased and clean 10.4) and my Firewire Drive (10.4.6). Nothing odd seems to happen, but they still havent fixed the disk space info problem for the desktop \ . Oh well I guess, but for those of you who dont know what the difference between the combo and delta updaters are:



    The Delta updater only writes the changes to the files of the Apps that it contains, so if you messed with an App, the updater will either not write the file at all, or add one that doesnt work since only certain parts are changed.



    The Combo updater contains all the complete files so it will overwrite whatever hacks that were made to an app and make it like a 'stock app'. Thats why its recommended you use the combo updater.



    My 2 cents
  • Reply 109 of 180
    markivmarkiv Posts: 180member
    I too have a problem after applying the 10.4.7 combo update, the Finder keeps on crashing and relaunching. Anyone else have the same problem and a suggestion would be really helpful. I repaired my disk permission etc but still the same problem.
  • Reply 110 of 180
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,740member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JeffDM

    Why is repairing permissions unnecessary? I'm curious how permissions get messed up and why people say that there aren't any consequences for that.



    Did anyone say that there are no consequences of borked permissions?



    I said it's unnecessary to do a repair permissions before and after an update, as a matter of course. That is what is unnecessary. You only need to repair permissions if you've got a problem.



    What is especially unnecessary is to repair permissions after the update if you repaired them immediately before the update. Do you know how repair permissions works? It looks in the receipts folder to determine the correct file permissions, then checks the files on the HD to see if their permissions match those that the package receipt says they should have. So, if you repair permissions before updating, there is no way that permissions could be "wrong" after updating, as the updater applies the permissions that are stored in the receipt.
  • Reply 111 of 180
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. H

    Did anyone say that there are no consequences of borked permissions?



    I said it's unnecessary to do a repair permissions before and after an update, as a matter of course. That is what is unnecessary. You only need to repair permissions if you've got a problem.





    How are you certain that having bad permissions never causes problems for an updater?
  • Reply 112 of 180
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,740member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JeffDM

    How are you certain that having bad permissions never causes problems for an updater?







    I didn't say that.
  • Reply 113 of 180
    deapeajaydeapeajay Posts: 909member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. H





    I didn't say that.




    you're implying it out the wazoo!
  • Reply 114 of 180
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Because borked permissions are about as likely as any other random problem? I don't get why people keep thinking that this particular issue keeps cropping up. It doesn't.



    It might happen if some the software you use sucks really badly and fucks stuff up. That's it.
  • Reply 115 of 180
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,740member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DeaPeaJay

    you're implying it out the wazoo!



    can you people not read?



    I did not say, anywhere, that messed-up permissions won't cause problems.



    I did say that "repairing permissions" evey time you upgrade, is unnecessary. If your permissions are in need of repair, then you'll likely be experiencing problems already and should try repairing permissions to see if that fixes the problem.



    You have to enter your admin password before installing an update, so over-writting files would not be a problem in any case. And, as I said, any new file written is done so with the "correct" permissions, i.e., those that the package receipt will say the files should have.
  • Reply 116 of 180
    I just updated my 2.0ghz MacBook with no troubles at all. I used the combo update as recomended by some. I also repaired permissions. It may have helped I don't really know.
  • Reply 117 of 180
    deapeajaydeapeajay Posts: 909member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. H

    can you people not read?



    I did not say, anywhere, that messed-up permissions won't cause problems.



    I did say that "repairing permissions" evey time you upgrade, is unnecessary. If your permissions are in need of repair, then you'll likely be experiencing problems already and should try repairing permissions to see if that fixes the problem.



    You have to enter your admin password before installing an update, so over-writting files would not be a problem in any case. And, as I said, any new file written is done so with the "correct" permissions, i.e., those that the package receipt will say the files should have.




    You said,
    Quote:

    ...it's unnecessary to do a repair permissions before and after an update...



    You also said,
    Quote:

    You only need to repair permissions if you've got a problem



    So I guess where the logic breaks down is that you think that any problem that exists BECAUSE of permissions will be readily noticeable. I disagree. So some recommend repairing permissions before an update because there could be an UNSEEN problem with permissions, that could then cause problems for the updater.
  • Reply 118 of 180
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DeaPeaJay

    So I guess where the logic breaks down is that you think that any problem that exists BECAUSE of permissions will be readily noticeable. I disagree.



    Where did he claim that?



    Quote:

    So some recommend repairing permissions before an update because there could be an UNSEEN problem with permissions, that could then cause problems for the updater.



    Only if Apple made a mistake. Every file listed in an installation package's bill of materials has its permissions specified. So, if your permissions on, say, /System/Some/Random/Directory were wrong, and Installer (or Software Update) wanted to put something in there, /System's, /System/Some's, /System/Some/Random's and /System/Some/Random/Directory's permissions would be fixed automagically in the process, based on the information in the bill of materials.



    Unless, of course, Apple's package is broken to begin with*, has inaccurate permissions listed, or has files or folders that aren't in the bill of materials and, thus, may not have specific permissions.



    So generally, the claim that incorrect permissions could cause an update to fail is inaccurate, just as much as it is inaccurate that permissions could be incorrect after an update, unless Apple botches something*.



    Usually, permissions get borked when you give Bruze Chizen tax dollars. Heck, there's this beautiful "screw up the file system" bug in a certain piece of software that doesn't deserve naming that not ChizenCo, but Apple worked around, in 10.4.7. (No, that one's not a permissions problem.)



    *) In which case you should have followed the ever-obvious advice to create a backup.
  • Reply 119 of 180
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. H





    I didn't say that.




    Sorry about that then. I got the impression in this thread that one shouldn't do a permission repair before installing the updater.



    Repairing permissions doesn't hurt anything that I'm aware of, and for me, usually only takes a couple minutes to do, so I don't see the point in trying to discourage it. I haven't done it in a while though, maybe months. I just did one for old time's sake and only one file was out of wack, which is a good improvement over previous update installs.



    I'm still pretty baffled how permissions get screwed up in the first place, from that view, permissions repair seems to be used as a band-aid fix or a crutch on the part of the developers.
  • Reply 120 of 180
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,961member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by franksargent





    My reply to the above, in order is, no, yes, no!



    A nonsense answer? Read the thread, how many people are pointing the finger of blame at themselves? At Apple?



    Nope, you blamed Apple, not I. "Apple is at fault for their update methods."



    Is there any consistent pattern to instillation issues posted so far? I don't see one in the FEW posts in this thread so far, but maybe later, who knows. But I doubt that a significant pattern will emerge now or in future OS updates, IMHO updates under 10.4 are pretty seemless, not like the situation in the 10.2 era, these things (OS X instillation procedures) tend to reach mythological proportions over time, people become old school, and just repeat previous procedures, unquestioned.



    And that's one of my points, Apple controls the HW/OS chain, while Microsoft does not, yet Apple needs the 12 step AA program to "properly" update the OS, while Microsoft updates are, in a word, seamless. No detach this, permissions that, etcetera! WTF, who wins the ease of use argument here?



    "And that means doing what we presented." And what EXACTLY was that explicit stepped procedure, might I ask? Should I listen to HeX cook #1, HeX cook #2, HeX cook #3, ..., ad infinitum. Let's see now 12 steps makes this a 12 factorial problem, 479,001,600 HeX cooks in the kitchen! And what EXACTLY is the "OFFICIAL" word from Apple on installing updates (no Apple support discussion posts please), seeing as I just clicked through all that stuff via Software Update, seeing as I like seamless OS integration on par with Microsoft products? Is that to much to ask of Apple? I think not!





    WRT backups, my comment "burn baby burn" was WRT DVD burning as the preferred low cost method of redundancy/storage, and I do this on an almost daily basis. Same goes for (8GB/4GB) flash drives WRT mission critical data, I'm constantly moving data between my home Mac and 2 work PC's.







    You're the one not reading this properly.



    As I've said, Apple themselves recommends these methods. What more do you need to know?



    But, then they pander to the "Oh my-God, I don't understand this, it's too HARD!", crowd, by not requiring it.



    What they should do, as I've also said, is to make it part of their update procedures, so that it can't be avoided.



    Will this prevent all problems? Of course not! But many "problems" are not actually problems, in the sense of being bugs in the update, other than in the sense that Apple DOES warn people that certain third party software, such as hacks, might cause unexpected problems with the update.



    That's also pretty explicit. But, again, Apple goes and does what it does during the update, removing critical parts of that software, without warning, and thereby causing problems.



    So, yes, this is Apple's fault.



    But, fault also lies with the people who rush out to be the first to download, and install, an update, or upgrade, without waiting to see what problems they might expect from it, and how to avoid it.



    But, again, Apple doesn't warn about this either, and the update just appears in Software Update, so people, without thinking, install it.
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