He must not do any research and he may be confused by the WCDMA standard within 3GSM. From the GSMWorld website.
"Let's be clear what is meant by the term. 3GSM represents third generation services delivered on an evolved core GSM network. 3GSM services are delivered at a technical level on third generation standards developed by 3GPP, which utilise Wideband-CDMA and, in some markets, EDGE air interfaces."
W-CDMA in the GSM standard??? It's a fact. The high speed CDMA standard is called EVDO.
Also from the CDMA.org - 350 Million subscribers.
from GSMWorld.com - 2,000 Million subscribers.
I don't think GSM is going away any time soon.
I don't think there is a question that Apple is working on a phone. The rumors are too thick and they are hiring phone techies (from an phone company insider who knows people that have gone to Apple.) However, working on a phone and releasing a phone are not the same thing. Apple has had projects that never saw the light of day.
The competitive landscape of the phone world is very different than the MP3 player market. Phone/hardware subsidies from service providers are the difference between a competitive product and an exclusive shiny toy. The combination of an MP3 player, camera, and phone is not really very novel even if it does look fantastic.
A $500 iPhone with a high dollar service plan for W-CDMA will be the next Cube. A really neat product that I wish I had but never wanted to pay for.
Apple will have to get a service contract from somebody and will they profit share on the hardware and the service plan?????
Many states, and more specifically CA, have that law already in place, with the exception that you may use a hands-free headset. Why they want your hands in the 10-and-2 position (I prefer the single-hand gangster lean 12:00 position) I have no idea, you're still USING the phone.
Maybe this will bring some cool hands free earpieces? Lol...
Yes, but as I understand it, they are working to ban cell phone use period, while driving. The distraction alone is enough to cause accidents.
Yes, but as I understand it, they are working to ban cell phone use period, while driving. The distraction alone is enough to cause accidents.
They'll want to ban conversations with passengers and listening to the radio after that!
There is a problem with "operating" (e.g. looking down to dial a number, find someone in your phonebook, look at the calendar, text etc.) a mobile phone whilst driving, but the talking part isn't really a problem, as long as it is through a wireless headset. Then, if someone phones you, you just have to press a button on your headset, and talk - not hard, or dangerous, IMHO.
Actually, it's been proven in studies that having a conversation while driving, with passengers, whatever, is dangerously distracting and leads to accidents.
Actually, it's been proven in studies that driving is dangerous and leads to accidents.
An iPod phone would be great, the iPod OS would suit a phone, and there is are those pieces inside the latest firmware (as mentioned in another thread) for stuff like signal strength etc.
so is smoking banned? i mean you need to light it (dial) and then it always in one hand (like a handset) AND its on fire!
gotta be more hazardous!
i dont drive and i dont smoke, but i do have a mobile phone, and these bans on its use while driving seem crazy if you compare phone use to smoking while driving, and with the lighters installed in cars, the car makers seem to be encouraging you to 1. do something that could lead to an accedent and 2. give you lung cancer.
so is smoking banned? i mean you need to light it (dial) and then it always in one hand (like a handset) AND its on fire!
gotta be more hazardous!
i dont drive and i dont smoke, but i do have a mobile phone, and these bans on its use while driving seem crazy if you compare phone use to smoking while driving, and with the lighters installed in cars, the car makers seem to be encouraging you to 1. do something that could lead to an accedent and 2. give you lung cancer.
why is no-one banning smoking while driving??
A University of Michigan statistical study found a person using/talking on a cell phone (specifically) is more likely to have an accident than a drunk. They also said doing anything active other than just driving at a minimum doubles your chances of causing an accident. Even just talking, whether on the phone hands free or to the person next to you. It's all about divided attention while operating a lethal potentially machine.
A University of Michigan statistical study found a person using/talking on a cell phone (specifically) is more likely to have an accident than a drunk. They also said doing anything active other than just driving at a minimum doubles your chances of causing an accident. Even just talking, whether on the phone hands free or to the person next to you. It's all about divided attention while operating a lethal potentially machine.
I think that's just a standard rule for everything, not just driving. Anytime you're on the phone you're more likely to cause an accident.
Anyone ever dropped a phone while peeing? Now THAT'S an example of divided attention while operating a potential lethal machine!
so is smoking banned? i mean you need to light it (dial) and then it always in one hand (like a handset) AND its on fire!
gotta be more hazardous!
i dont drive and i dont smoke, but i do have a mobile phone, and these bans on its use while driving seem crazy if you compare phone use to smoking while driving, and with the lighters installed in cars, the car makers seem to be encouraging you to 1. do something that could lead to an accedent and 2. give you lung cancer.
why is no-one banning smoking while driving??
Maybe if Verizon paid off the legislatures and car companies like Phillip Morris these cell-phone laws wouldn't be in place...
fellow americans, please come to europe and phone while driving.
our police officers will be glad to fine you all (and with your money we will build some more roads for us)
if you think cellphones and driving can be mixed together, you're less clever than i thought.
on the topic, apple should have released a phone-ipod years ago. sony will eat the market alone, then it will be too late, just like it is for all the ipod wannabes.
the ipod might run the same fate as pdas (read: killed by smart phones)
in a couple of years, maybe just in one, an ipod that JUST plays music, will be a dead product such as those initial cellphones that could ONLY make calls.
fellow americans, please come to europe and phone while driving.
Actually, I'm the person who said he thinks it's o.k. to use a headset whilst driving, and I'm from the U.K.
Just to be clear, I do not think it's acceptable to use a phone handset whilst driving (e.g. to find a number, text, anything that involves taking your eyes off the road), but really, using a headset is exactly, in my eyes, the same as talking to passengers, and I really don't think that anyone is going to seriously suggest that we should make it illegal to talk in cars.
Quote:
Originally posted by jindrich
in a couple of years, maybe just in one, an ipod that JUST plays music, will be a dead product such as those initial cellphones that could ONLY make calls.
I don't think so. Have all those phones with cameras killed off cameras that are only cameras? No.
I think the phone/mp3 player hybrid is a threat to the shuffle/nano end of the market. Even then, I wouldn't expect them to eliminate that market, just to take a significant chunk out of it.
The HDD based iPods are ideally suited to their purpose (carrying your entire music collection), and I don't see the need to shove a mobile phone in them, in exactly the same way that there's no need to shove a mobile phone into a fridge. Conversely, I also don't see mobile phones being able to carry an entire music collection in an elegant, non-heavily-comprimised way any time soon.
Actually, I'm the person who said he thinks it's o.k. to use a headset whilst driving, and I'm from the U.K.
Just to be clear, I do not think it's acceptable to use a phone handset whilst driving (e.g. to find a number, text, anything that involves taking your eyes off the road), but really, using a headset is exactly, in my eyes, the same as talking to passengers, and I really don't think that anyone is going to seriously suggest that we should make it illegal to talk in cars.
I'll try and find the link, but there was an interesting study that showed that listening to someone talking in your local environment was less distracting than listening to someone over a speaker or earpiece.
The theory was that with only one ear being engaged for listening, it breaks the instinctual expectation of 3D spatial sound, and we focus more intently on the voice because it is 'odd'. Add to that that the voice quality is often a bit less than a person next to you, and it results in more attention being paid to a phone conversation than a live one.
Even the person's visual field was reduced - they tended to focus more closely to the front of their car, instead of further down the road, reducing their reaction time window. Fascinating stuff.
but really, using a headset is exactly, in my eyes, the same as talking to passengers, and I really don't think that anyone is going to seriously suggest that we should make it illegal to talk in cars.
not at all.
when you talk to passengers they will notice and TELL YOU that you're not paying enough attention to the road/driving. the guy on the phone will not.
plus your brain needs much more processing power to picture the image of the guy you're talking to on the phone than with someone you can feel, hear, touch and smell.
regarding the cellphones taking over anything, just wait.
actually i can't believe how they can actually cram all those things (a pda, flash mp3 player, 3+ megapixel cam and video rec, gameboy, gps, tv tuner...etc) on such a small device.
Actually, I'm the person who said he thinks it's o.k. to use a headset whilst driving, and I'm from the U.K.
Just to be clear, I do not think it's acceptable to use a phone handset whilst driving (e.g. to find a number, text, anything that involves taking your eyes off the road), but really, using a headset is exactly, in my eyes, the same as talking to passengers, and I really don't think that anyone is going to seriously suggest that we should make it illegal to talk in cars.
There IS a MAJOR difference. When someone is sitting next to you talking, they react to situations around you as well as you do. When you are changing lanes, or merging onto a highway in heavy traffic or something, they naturally respond to the situation and stop talking and are understanding if you stop responding to them. On the phone you are pressured to maintain an ordinary conversation because the person on the other side has no idea what's happening on your side.
When someone is sitting next to you talking, they react to situations around you as well as you do. When you are changing lanes, or merging onto a highway in heavy traffic or something, they naturally respond to the situation and stop talking and are understanding if you stop responding to them. On the phone you are pressured to maintain an ordinary conversation because the person on the other side has no idea what's happening on your side.
Indeed. I have considered this, but I always concluded that it is the driver's responsibility:
1.) To inform the caller that they (the driver) are driving and to expect the conversation to be potentially disjointed.
2.) To interrupt the call if necessary.
However, what I had not considered was this:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
The theory was that with only one ear being engaged for listening, it breaks the instinctual expectation of 3D spatial sound, and we focus more intently on the voice because it is 'odd'. Add to that that the voice quality is often a bit less than a person next to you, and it results in more attention being paid to a phone conversation than a live one.
Even the person's visual field was reduced - they tended to focus more closely to the front of their car, instead of further down the road, reducing their reaction time window. Fascinating stuff.
Which is very interesting indeed, and makes a lot of sense to me.
So I stand corrected. If Kickaha can find the study, it would be interesting to know the sample size and to what degree people's abilities were reduced. It's whether the additional risk introduced is acceptable or not. I'd say that if it's comparable to someone being drunk, the answer must surely be "not". But I would point out to jindrich that in the U.K. at least, where using a mobile whilst driving is illegal, that headsets are currently allowed.
Actually a study carried out recently concluded it's more dangerous to travel driving a car using a mobile phone, than it is to travel while tipsy. (buzzcast)
Actually a study carried out recently concluded it's more dangerous to travel driving a car using a mobile phone, than it is to travel while tipsy. (buzzcast)
I don't think anyone is disputing that. Using a hands-free headset is the issue we're talking about.
Comments
Originally posted by LGnome
How did you come to this conclusion?
He must not do any research and he may be confused by the WCDMA standard within 3GSM. From the GSMWorld website.
"Let's be clear what is meant by the term. 3GSM represents third generation services delivered on an evolved core GSM network. 3GSM services are delivered at a technical level on third generation standards developed by 3GPP, which utilise Wideband-CDMA and, in some markets, EDGE air interfaces."
W-CDMA in the GSM standard??? It's a fact. The high speed CDMA standard is called EVDO.
Also from the CDMA.org - 350 Million subscribers.
from GSMWorld.com - 2,000 Million subscribers.
I don't think GSM is going away any time soon.
I don't think there is a question that Apple is working on a phone. The rumors are too thick and they are hiring phone techies (from an phone company insider who knows people that have gone to Apple.) However, working on a phone and releasing a phone are not the same thing. Apple has had projects that never saw the light of day.
The competitive landscape of the phone world is very different than the MP3 player market. Phone/hardware subsidies from service providers are the difference between a competitive product and an exclusive shiny toy. The combination of an MP3 player, camera, and phone is not really very novel even if it does look fantastic.
A $500 iPhone with a high dollar service plan for W-CDMA will be the next Cube. A really neat product that I wish I had but never wanted to pay for.
Apple will have to get a service contract from somebody and will they profit share on the hardware and the service plan?????
Originally posted by Guybrush Threepwood
Many states, and more specifically CA, have that law already in place, with the exception that you may use a hands-free headset. Why they want your hands in the 10-and-2 position (I prefer the single-hand gangster lean 12:00 position) I have no idea, you're still USING the phone.
Maybe this will bring some cool hands free earpieces? Lol...
Yes, but as I understand it, they are working to ban cell phone use period, while driving. The distraction alone is enough to cause accidents.
Originally posted by SpamSandwich
Yes, but as I understand it, they are working to ban cell phone use period, while driving. The distraction alone is enough to cause accidents.
They'll want to ban conversations with passengers and listening to the radio after that!
There is a problem with "operating" (e.g. looking down to dial a number, find someone in your phonebook, look at the calendar, text etc.) a mobile phone whilst driving, but the talking part isn't really a problem, as long as it is through a wireless headset. Then, if someone phones you, you just have to press a button on your headset, and talk - not hard, or dangerous, IMHO.
Originally posted by tonton
Actually, it's been proven in studies that having a conversation while driving, with passengers, whatever, is dangerously distracting and leads to accidents.
Actually, it's been proven in studies that driving is dangerous and leads to accidents.
An iPod phone would be great, the iPod OS would suit a phone, and there is are those pieces inside the latest firmware (as mentioned in another thread) for stuff like signal strength etc.
I want a NanoPhone® !!!
gotta be more hazardous!
i dont drive and i dont smoke, but i do have a mobile phone, and these bans on its use while driving seem crazy if you compare phone use to smoking while driving, and with the lighters installed in cars, the car makers seem to be encouraging you to 1. do something that could lead to an accedent and 2. give you lung cancer.
why is no-one banning smoking while driving??
Originally posted by ajprice
Children are dangerous!
So true, and they often have accidents.
Originally posted by Trendannoyer
so is smoking banned? i mean you need to light it (dial) and then it always in one hand (like a handset) AND its on fire!
gotta be more hazardous!
i dont drive and i dont smoke, but i do have a mobile phone, and these bans on its use while driving seem crazy if you compare phone use to smoking while driving, and with the lighters installed in cars, the car makers seem to be encouraging you to 1. do something that could lead to an accedent and 2. give you lung cancer.
why is no-one banning smoking while driving??
A University of Michigan statistical study found a person using/talking on a cell phone (specifically) is more likely to have an accident than a drunk. They also said doing anything active other than just driving at a minimum doubles your chances of causing an accident. Even just talking, whether on the phone hands free or to the person next to you. It's all about divided attention while operating a lethal potentially machine.
Originally posted by Hiro
A University of Michigan statistical study found a person using/talking on a cell phone (specifically) is more likely to have an accident than a drunk. They also said doing anything active other than just driving at a minimum doubles your chances of causing an accident. Even just talking, whether on the phone hands free or to the person next to you. It's all about divided attention while operating a lethal potentially machine.
I think that's just a standard rule for everything, not just driving. Anytime you're on the phone you're more likely to cause an accident.
Anyone ever dropped a phone while peeing? Now THAT'S an example of divided attention while operating a potential lethal machine!
Originally posted by Trendannoyer
so is smoking banned? i mean you need to light it (dial) and then it always in one hand (like a handset) AND its on fire!
gotta be more hazardous!
i dont drive and i dont smoke, but i do have a mobile phone, and these bans on its use while driving seem crazy if you compare phone use to smoking while driving, and with the lighters installed in cars, the car makers seem to be encouraging you to 1. do something that could lead to an accedent and 2. give you lung cancer.
why is no-one banning smoking while driving??
Maybe if Verizon paid off the legislatures and car companies like Phillip Morris these cell-phone laws wouldn't be in place...
our police officers will be glad to fine you all (and with your money we will build some more roads for us)
if you think cellphones and driving can be mixed together, you're less clever than i thought.
on the topic, apple should have released a phone-ipod years ago. sony will eat the market alone, then it will be too late, just like it is for all the ipod wannabes.
the ipod might run the same fate as pdas (read: killed by smart phones)
in a couple of years, maybe just in one, an ipod that JUST plays music, will be a dead product such as those initial cellphones that could ONLY make calls.
Originally posted by jindrich
fellow americans, please come to europe and phone while driving.
Actually, I'm the person who said he thinks it's o.k. to use a headset whilst driving, and I'm from the U.K.
Just to be clear, I do not think it's acceptable to use a phone handset whilst driving (e.g. to find a number, text, anything that involves taking your eyes off the road), but really, using a headset is exactly, in my eyes, the same as talking to passengers, and I really don't think that anyone is going to seriously suggest that we should make it illegal to talk in cars.
Originally posted by jindrich
in a couple of years, maybe just in one, an ipod that JUST plays music, will be a dead product such as those initial cellphones that could ONLY make calls.
I don't think so. Have all those phones with cameras killed off cameras that are only cameras? No.
I think the phone/mp3 player hybrid is a threat to the shuffle/nano end of the market. Even then, I wouldn't expect them to eliminate that market, just to take a significant chunk out of it.
The HDD based iPods are ideally suited to their purpose (carrying your entire music collection), and I don't see the need to shove a mobile phone in them, in exactly the same way that there's no need to shove a mobile phone into a fridge. Conversely, I also don't see mobile phones being able to carry an entire music collection in an elegant, non-heavily-comprimised way any time soon.
Originally posted by Mr. H
Actually, I'm the person who said he thinks it's o.k. to use a headset whilst driving, and I'm from the U.K.
Just to be clear, I do not think it's acceptable to use a phone handset whilst driving (e.g. to find a number, text, anything that involves taking your eyes off the road), but really, using a headset is exactly, in my eyes, the same as talking to passengers, and I really don't think that anyone is going to seriously suggest that we should make it illegal to talk in cars.
I'll try and find the link, but there was an interesting study that showed that listening to someone talking in your local environment was less distracting than listening to someone over a speaker or earpiece.
The theory was that with only one ear being engaged for listening, it breaks the instinctual expectation of 3D spatial sound, and we focus more intently on the voice because it is 'odd'. Add to that that the voice quality is often a bit less than a person next to you, and it results in more attention being paid to a phone conversation than a live one.
Even the person's visual field was reduced - they tended to focus more closely to the front of their car, instead of further down the road, reducing their reaction time window. Fascinating stuff.
Originally posted by Mr. H
but really, using a headset is exactly, in my eyes, the same as talking to passengers, and I really don't think that anyone is going to seriously suggest that we should make it illegal to talk in cars.
not at all.
when you talk to passengers they will notice and TELL YOU that you're not paying enough attention to the road/driving. the guy on the phone will not.
plus your brain needs much more processing power to picture the image of the guy you're talking to on the phone than with someone you can feel, hear, touch and smell.
regarding the cellphones taking over anything, just wait.
actually i can't believe how they can actually cram all those things (a pda, flash mp3 player, 3+ megapixel cam and video rec, gameboy, gps, tv tuner...etc) on such a small device.
Originally posted by Mr. H
Actually, I'm the person who said he thinks it's o.k. to use a headset whilst driving, and I'm from the U.K.
Just to be clear, I do not think it's acceptable to use a phone handset whilst driving (e.g. to find a number, text, anything that involves taking your eyes off the road), but really, using a headset is exactly, in my eyes, the same as talking to passengers, and I really don't think that anyone is going to seriously suggest that we should make it illegal to talk in cars.
There IS a MAJOR difference. When someone is sitting next to you talking, they react to situations around you as well as you do. When you are changing lanes, or merging onto a highway in heavy traffic or something, they naturally respond to the situation and stop talking and are understanding if you stop responding to them. On the phone you are pressured to maintain an ordinary conversation because the person on the other side has no idea what's happening on your side.
Originally posted by meelash
When someone is sitting next to you talking, they react to situations around you as well as you do. When you are changing lanes, or merging onto a highway in heavy traffic or something, they naturally respond to the situation and stop talking and are understanding if you stop responding to them. On the phone you are pressured to maintain an ordinary conversation because the person on the other side has no idea what's happening on your side.
Indeed. I have considered this, but I always concluded that it is the driver's responsibility:
1.) To inform the caller that they (the driver) are driving and to expect the conversation to be potentially disjointed.
2.) To interrupt the call if necessary.
However, what I had not considered was this:
Originally posted by Kickaha
The theory was that with only one ear being engaged for listening, it breaks the instinctual expectation of 3D spatial sound, and we focus more intently on the voice because it is 'odd'. Add to that that the voice quality is often a bit less than a person next to you, and it results in more attention being paid to a phone conversation than a live one.
Even the person's visual field was reduced - they tended to focus more closely to the front of their car, instead of further down the road, reducing their reaction time window. Fascinating stuff.
Which is very interesting indeed, and makes a lot of sense to me.
So I stand corrected. If Kickaha can find the study, it would be interesting to know the sample size and to what degree people's abilities were reduced. It's whether the additional risk introduced is acceptable or not. I'd say that if it's comparable to someone being drunk, the answer must surely be "not". But I would point out to jindrich that in the U.K. at least, where using a mobile whilst driving is illegal, that headsets are currently allowed.
Originally posted by Ireland
Actually a study carried out recently concluded it's more dangerous to travel driving a car using a mobile phone, than it is to travel while tipsy. (buzzcast)
I don't think anyone is disputing that. Using a hands-free headset is the issue we're talking about.