Briefly: Apple on Vista, Leopard, retail windows

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  • Reply 81 of 135
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,907member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg


    Do you mean to imply that OS X has bad memory management? It doesn't.



    As VM size, what's the problem? You have a tiny HD - my 1999 Powermac Sawtooth came with a 20 GB drive. On a modern Mac, with a 60-100 GB HD, VM space is negligible.



    Of course, the beautiful thing about OS X's VM system is that you can leave virtually every app on your system open at all times, without a significant performance hit, and each one is a dock-click away. Not a bad feature for having a large VM footprint.



    The key numbers, as I understand it, are pageins/pageouts. If you're system has to keep hitting the HD to retrieve data, then you need more RAM. But that's not a VM problem, that's the nature of OS X's memory management, and it's need for lots of RAM. This isn't a problem as long as your Mac has ~1 GB of RAM. This is where Apple needs to improve - no Mac should leave the factory with less than 1 GB of RAM.



    I can agree with that.



    But, look on the bright side of things. It's been shown on some websights, that, particularly when playing games, Vista needs 2 GB of RAM.



    We may be on the light side after all.



    And memory requirements are never going to go down, just up.
  • Reply 82 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crees!


    Guys, come on. It's not like Apple hasn't been so blatant before. Last year they had similar banners saying "Redmond, Start Your Photocopiers" and others taunting Longhorn.



    As we all know now, Apple was right in this regard.
  • Reply 83 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Celemourn


    <in a feeble voice> "Yall whipper snappers don't know how good you gots it! Why, I remember when I was your age, you could fit a WHOLE OPERATING SYSTEM on a lil ole 800k floppy! What's a floppy? <sigh> Kids these days!"



    Floppy disks? You were lucky! In my time you'd have to hand-punch the whole OS onto cards every time you started the machine. But you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.
  • Reply 84 of 135
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,907member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by csimmons


    As we all know now, Apple was right in this regard.



    This is too explicit though. Being somewhat nebulous is fine, but when mentioning a particular product, it seems petty and childish.



    If Apple lists features for each, and makes comparisons, that would be all right. That's commonly done.



    But, even there, one has to be careful. All major features from both products must be mentioned, including those your own product lacks. Otherwise,your comparison will be picked apart.



    It's interesting to note that in Europe, you are not allowed to mention a competitors product in your ads.
  • Reply 85 of 135
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,907member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jobberwacky


    Floppy disks? You were lucky! In my time you'd have to hand-punch the whole OS onto cards every time you started the machine. But you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.



    HA! I've got that one beat as well. I still have, in my attic, the rack cards that IBM used to insert the wires to change the programming with.
  • Reply 86 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski


    Tiger was a developer release. There were something more than a dozen major (or at least non-trivial) new APIs added to Tiger. I see Leopard consolidating that. I mean, I think Dashboard and Exposé were tossed on at the last minute to add some "end user" stuff to the release. I mean, with all the APIs and working on the Intel switch, there wasn't much up-front stuff for Tiger.



    In so far as stuff that Apple is going to be in a great position to improve further from Tiger:



    Dashboard

    Spotlight (this has enormous potential)

    Core Image

    Q2D Extreme

    Boot Camp

    X11



    This is the key point for me, the banners are rallying the troops to make great use of the technologies in OSX. Dashboard made use of the ripple effect but that's almost all we've seen of that (have a look at Omni dazzle though)



    Ther's also Core data and Core foundation.



    The move to Intel has concentrated everyone on Universal Binaries, this years WWDC will refocus on the new great tools for developers in OSX and crucially Apple will show how it's done by making use of these in the OS.



    M$ hasn't got a chance of catching up with stuff that was released 2 years ago let alone what will be new in afew hours.......
  • Reply 87 of 135
    aegisdesignaegisdesign Posts: 2,914member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jobberwacky


    Floppy disks? You were lucky! In my time you'd have to hand-punch the whole OS onto cards every time you started the machine. But you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.



    Punch cards? Luxury! We had to install t'valves by hand for threpence ha'penny a week. If we didn't get it right our fathers used to beat us with a rolled up printout, and we'd be thankful for it.
  • Reply 88 of 135
    mac_dollmac_doll Posts: 527member
    The new slogans fill me with glee. I wish I was there..
  • Reply 89 of 135
    >_>>_> Posts: 336member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by winston smith


    Dashboard made use of the ripple effect but that's almost all we've seen of that ... have a look at Omni dazzle though



    Actually, Dazzle's ripple effect is far inferior to Dashboards'.



    Side the fact it looks worse, the effect is applied to a 256x256 stationary snippet of your screen (IE: The program takes a small screenshot around your mouse. Displays it. Then applied the horrid ripple effect to that.), where as the Dashboard ripple is applied in real time (and much higher quality) to anything going on beneath.



    I only mention this to vent my disappointment. =(



    - Xidius
  • Reply 90 of 135
    gee4orcegee4orce Posts: 165member
    One more thing:



    OS X Leopard will be sold shrink wrapped for any Vista-compatible PC.



    Dell to announce OEM deal with Apple that will see them shipping OS X pre-installed.



    ...and so it begins.
  • Reply 91 of 135
    aegisdesignaegisdesign Posts: 2,914member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gee4orce


    One more thing:



    OS X Leopard will be sold shrink wrapped for any Vista-compatible PC.



    Dell to announce OEM deal with Apple that will see them shipping OS X pre-installed.



    ...and so it begins.



    That would be as big, if not bigger, a bombshell as the Intel switch. Can't count anything out I guess but it would seem unlikely with Apple primarily wanting to sell more hardware.
  • Reply 92 of 135
    celemourncelemourn Posts: 769member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jobberwacky


    Floppy disks? You were lucky! In my time you'd have to hand-punch the whole OS onto cards every time you started the machine. But you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.



    LMAO I think I found some punch cards in my basement when I was 10 or 11. From back when my dad was at MIT I think.
  • Reply 93 of 135
    celemourncelemourn Posts: 769member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    HA! I've got that one beat as well. I still have, in my attic, the rack cards that IBM used to insert the wires to change the programming with.



    Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman!
  • Reply 94 of 135
    celemourncelemourn Posts: 769member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aegisdesign


    Punch cards? Luxury! We had to install t'valves by hand for threpence ha'penny a week. If we didn't get it right our fathers used to beat us with a rolled up printout, and we'd be thankful for it.



    Abacus.













    blah blah blah, filler filler filler (can't post fewer than 10 characters) blah blah blah
  • Reply 95 of 135
    xsmixsmi Posts: 128member
    My first computer experience was on a machine that had no OS. You had to dial a number and put the phone receiver on a modem that dialed into a mainfraime thatdid all the work. Once you dialed in you waited a few seconds until the curser on the screen blinked I yhink three times and question mark apperaed.
  • Reply 96 of 135
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski


    I'm running AOL.



    Get Out! Its a trap!
  • Reply 97 of 135
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    This is too explicit though. Being somewhat nebulous is fine, but when mentioning a particular product, it seems petty and childish.



    If Apple lists features for each, and makes comparisons, that would be all right. That's commonly done.



    But, even there, one has to be careful. All major features from both products must be mentioned, including those your own product lacks. Otherwise,your comparison will be picked apart.



    It's interesting to note that in Europe, you are not allowed to mention a competitors product in your ads.



    Hmmm the past 12 months have seen the start button be replaced with the windows logo in a sphere-like orb thing that when clicked now reveals system wide meta search...where have I seen that before (glances up at top right corner of Tiger desktop) Oh Yea...



    They have this really cool thing that shows you all of the open windows at once with the touch of a button, it is so innovative, but vaguly familier...(taps F9) Oh Yea...that is where I saw that...



    IE 7 will have this great new thing called "tabbed browsing" a true innovation that for some reason, leaves me with a sence of dejavo...I think this exists in something called "opera" "mozilla/firefox" "netscape" and this little Apple app called Safari...



    The Office toolbar will have tabbed toolsets, kinda like Photoshops "layers/channels" pallette or Final Cuts Canvas...



    If you can name me one truly innovartive and original idea in Vista, I wil eat my hat.
  • Reply 98 of 135
    aegisdesignaegisdesign Posts: 2,914member
    There's obviously only two Yorkshiremen in this thread
  • Reply 99 of 135
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    It's interesting to note that in Europe, you are not allowed to mention a competitors product in your ads.



    Psst. This isn't an ad.
  • Reply 100 of 135
    timuscatimusca Posts: 120member
    Am I the only one that finds it ironic that Apple says "Hasta la vista, Vista" yet they're doing everything they can to let Vista run alongside OS X?
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