Then you fault your own arguement, since apple upgrade price is traditionally $79. They are comparing retail to retail, a liegit fact.
Retail and upgrade are very different beasts.
Trying to cut corners and get multiple upgrades instead of retail, may or may not suit ones needs.
In the respect
I'm not quite sure how vista upgrade functionality is, but it's traditionally not as easy as osx upgrade.
Apple(being that it doesn't really care so much ) upgrades is more a "simple check" forumla. You can literally install 10.3, and choose erase install in 10.4 upgrade.
Whether vista will have such a convient upgrade functionality will have to be trial by fire. Already the bastardized paths in Vista suggest some weirdness going on.
While it isn't a profitable thing for people to get an OEM home, then then buy an upgraded ultimate, It's almost daunting trying to support and clarify, and only enforces the "Empire of evil" attitude.
You can say Microsoft dug themselves into a hole with trying to spin off so many versions and paths.
There is a certain novelity in simplicity, such as apple's idea of "One leopard" after the split of PPC/Intel, x32/x64.
Your manufacture/support/proproganda/advertisment are all streamedline.
I wasn't making an arguement I was stating some facts that were left out. The fact is whenever you hear someone talk about Vista they always quote the highest price and most users will purchase and upgrade. Mac users always purchase an upgrade because the rate of formated only harddrives on the pc side is far higher. The fact is most on the pc side will spend little to nothing to upgrade to Vista because places like Dell and HP will just simply office Vista instead of Xp just like when XP was offered in place of 98 or Me.
Your attempt to make a point is all over the place. People want to make the Vista situation worse then it is, im not saying its great I will decide for myself when I start running it.l
I wasn't making an arguement I was stating some facts that were left out. The fact is whenever you hear someone talk about Vista they always quote the highest price and most users will purchase and upgrade. Mac users always purchase an upgrade because the rate of formated only harddrives on the pc side is far higher. The fact is most on the pc side will spend little to nothing to upgrade to Vista because places like Dell and HP will just simply office Vista instead of Xp just like when XP was offered in place of 98 or Me.
Your attempt to make a point is all over the place. People want to make the Vista situation worse then it is, im not saying its great I will decide for myself when I start running it.l
This also becomes an issue becasue of teir pricing. It's lke the whole home/pro/mce thing amplified.
People bundling different version of vista, via OEM is going to be in a whole screwly senerio, of not knowing which version, which bundle to take, or even have the option to buy.
This will surely give support and marketing a big headache. Not just that Vista editions are upgradable. So you have more strands of upgrade paths, and tech support, and all that.
PC manufactures will now have to give (maybe home) MCE, Pro, Server, Vista, Vists (different editions). Future wise even as they slowly get rid of XP, Micosoft will surely put more Vista editions out.
It's like playing the anti-apple, where you throw alot(and I mean a lot) of choices at people and price schemes, and upgrade paths. It's not easy on both sides.
The unasked questions are already gearing up like can you downgrade? an upgraded vista(say home to ultimate) if you decide you don't like it? Which version is suited to my needs? Does xxx program run on xx editions? How much in bulk licensing. How do I tell which requires which activation.
Worse then it is, is debatable. It would depend on worse case senerio, and the more your throw out, the bigger the worse case senerio can be. I would say Microsoft expects to need to spend a lot more of their budget on marketing and support.
This also becomes an issue becasue of teir pricing. It's lke the whole home/pro/mce thing amplified.
People bundling different version of vista, via OEM is going to be in a whole screwly senerio, of not knowing which version, which bundle to take, or even have the option to buy.
This will surely give support and marketing a big headache. Not just that Vista editions are upgradable. So you have more strands of upgrade paths, and tech support, and all that.
PC manufactures will now have to give (maybe home) MCE, Pro, Server, Vista, Vists (different editions). Future wise even as they slowly get rid of XP, Micosoft will surely put more Vista editions out.
It's like playing the anti-apple, where you throw alot(and I mean a lot) of choices at people and price schemes, and upgrade paths. It's not easy on both sides.
The unasked questions are already gearing up like can you downgrade? an upgraded vista(say home to ultimate) if you decide you don't like it? Which version is suited to my needs? Does xxx program run on xx editions? How much in bulk licensing. How do I tell which requires which activation.
Worse then it is, is debatable. It would depend on worse case senerio, and the more your throw out, the bigger the worse case senerio can be. I would say Microsoft expects to need to spend a lot more of their budget on marketing and support.
if anything this Vista release should be a very interesting one.
This also becomes an issue becasue of teir pricing. It's lke the whole home/pro/mce thing amplified.
People bundling different version of vista, via OEM is going to be in a whole screwly senerio, of not knowing which version, which bundle to take, or even have the option to buy.
This will surely give support and marketing a big headache. Not just that Vista editions are upgradable. So you have more strands of upgrade paths, and tech support, and all that.
PC manufactures will now have to give (maybe home) MCE, Pro, Server, Vista, Vists (different editions). Future wise even as they slowly get rid of XP, Micosoft will surely put more Vista editions out.
It's like playing the anti-apple, where you throw alot(and I mean a lot) of choices at people and price schemes, and upgrade paths. It's not easy on both sides.
The unasked questions are already gearing up like can you downgrade? an upgraded vista(say home to ultimate) if you decide you don't like it? Which version is suited to my needs? Does xxx program run on xx editions? How much in bulk licensing. How do I tell which requires which activation.
Worse then it is, is debatable. It would depend on worse case senerio, and the more your throw out, the bigger the worse case senerio can be. I would say Microsoft expects to need to spend a lot more of their budget on marketing and support.
I agree with you that five versions is stupid. Vista Basic should not even be an option, Premium for the most part is Basic with Aero the 3d desktop. Vista should be smart enough to do a hardware evaluation when installed and if you have intergrated graphics then Aero is just not an option, if you upgrade you hardware then there should be a way to activate Aero. Appears that isnt the case.
Based on the MS site I believe Business version will also large scale upgrades for most home users this isnt a valid upgrade.
Premium will be the top seller. Ultimate is just Premium and Business bundled together.
Should have been just two version a Home version which included Aero and a Business version to help manage large scale deployment.
The only issue I had is whenver you walk into an Apple Store they tell eveyrone Vista is going to be 345.00 to upgrade and that just isnt the truth.
I dont see the Vista release as being all that interesting. For those that have a 1-2 year old computer they wont upgrade until they buy a new computer that will already come with Vista. For thos with a 6month or less computer will most likely just upgread for 140.00 to Premium.
OEM's like Dell and HP have Vista before its released to the public and will just simply be an option on their computers.
Unlike the Mac world there are gamers like that trade out hardware often that is the only subgroup that will most likely end up buying full versions.
I guess my point being most users will not purchase a full version. I use both OS platforms, Mac users view new OS releases with anticipation on the PC side there is far more media driven hype then actual user interest.
Comments
Then you fault your own arguement, since apple upgrade price is traditionally $79. They are comparing retail to retail, a liegit fact.
Retail and upgrade are very different beasts.
Trying to cut corners and get multiple upgrades instead of retail, may or may not suit ones needs.
In the respect
I'm not quite sure how vista upgrade functionality is, but it's traditionally not as easy as osx upgrade.
Apple(being that it doesn't really care so much ) upgrades is more a "simple check" forumla. You can literally install 10.3, and choose erase install in 10.4 upgrade.
Whether vista will have such a convient upgrade functionality will have to be trial by fire. Already the bastardized paths in Vista suggest some weirdness going on.
While it isn't a profitable thing for people to get an OEM home, then then buy an upgraded ultimate, It's almost daunting trying to support and clarify, and only enforces the "Empire of evil" attitude.
You can say Microsoft dug themselves into a hole with trying to spin off so many versions and paths.
There is a certain novelity in simplicity, such as apple's idea of "One leopard" after the split of PPC/Intel, x32/x64.
Your manufacture/support/proproganda/advertisment are all streamedline.
I wasn't making an arguement I was stating some facts that were left out. The fact is whenever you hear someone talk about Vista they always quote the highest price and most users will purchase and upgrade. Mac users always purchase an upgrade because the rate of formated only harddrives on the pc side is far higher. The fact is most on the pc side will spend little to nothing to upgrade to Vista because places like Dell and HP will just simply office Vista instead of Xp just like when XP was offered in place of 98 or Me.
Your attempt to make a point is all over the place. People want to make the Vista situation worse then it is, im not saying its great I will decide for myself when I start running it.l
I wasn't making an arguement I was stating some facts that were left out. The fact is whenever you hear someone talk about Vista they always quote the highest price and most users will purchase and upgrade. Mac users always purchase an upgrade because the rate of formated only harddrives on the pc side is far higher. The fact is most on the pc side will spend little to nothing to upgrade to Vista because places like Dell and HP will just simply office Vista instead of Xp just like when XP was offered in place of 98 or Me.
Your attempt to make a point is all over the place. People want to make the Vista situation worse then it is, im not saying its great I will decide for myself when I start running it.l
This also becomes an issue becasue of teir pricing. It's lke the whole home/pro/mce thing amplified.
People bundling different version of vista, via OEM is going to be in a whole screwly senerio, of not knowing which version, which bundle to take, or even have the option to buy.
This will surely give support and marketing a big headache. Not just that Vista editions are upgradable. So you have more strands of upgrade paths, and tech support, and all that.
PC manufactures will now have to give (maybe home) MCE, Pro, Server, Vista, Vists (different editions). Future wise even as they slowly get rid of XP, Micosoft will surely put more Vista editions out.
It's like playing the anti-apple, where you throw alot(and I mean a lot) of choices at people and price schemes, and upgrade paths. It's not easy on both sides.
The unasked questions are already gearing up like can you downgrade? an upgraded vista(say home to ultimate) if you decide you don't like it? Which version is suited to my needs? Does xxx program run on xx editions? How much in bulk licensing. How do I tell which requires which activation.
Worse then it is, is debatable. It would depend on worse case senerio, and the more your throw out, the bigger the worse case senerio can be. I would say Microsoft expects to need to spend a lot more of their budget on marketing and support.
This also becomes an issue becasue of teir pricing. It's lke the whole home/pro/mce thing amplified.
People bundling different version of vista, via OEM is going to be in a whole screwly senerio, of not knowing which version, which bundle to take, or even have the option to buy.
This will surely give support and marketing a big headache. Not just that Vista editions are upgradable. So you have more strands of upgrade paths, and tech support, and all that.
PC manufactures will now have to give (maybe home) MCE, Pro, Server, Vista, Vists (different editions). Future wise even as they slowly get rid of XP, Micosoft will surely put more Vista editions out.
It's like playing the anti-apple, where you throw alot(and I mean a lot) of choices at people and price schemes, and upgrade paths. It's not easy on both sides.
The unasked questions are already gearing up like can you downgrade? an upgraded vista(say home to ultimate) if you decide you don't like it? Which version is suited to my needs? Does xxx program run on xx editions? How much in bulk licensing. How do I tell which requires which activation.
Worse then it is, is debatable. It would depend on worse case senerio, and the more your throw out, the bigger the worse case senerio can be. I would say Microsoft expects to need to spend a lot more of their budget on marketing and support.
if anything this Vista release should be a very interesting one.
This also becomes an issue becasue of teir pricing. It's lke the whole home/pro/mce thing amplified.
People bundling different version of vista, via OEM is going to be in a whole screwly senerio, of not knowing which version, which bundle to take, or even have the option to buy.
This will surely give support and marketing a big headache. Not just that Vista editions are upgradable. So you have more strands of upgrade paths, and tech support, and all that.
PC manufactures will now have to give (maybe home) MCE, Pro, Server, Vista, Vists (different editions). Future wise even as they slowly get rid of XP, Micosoft will surely put more Vista editions out.
It's like playing the anti-apple, where you throw alot(and I mean a lot) of choices at people and price schemes, and upgrade paths. It's not easy on both sides.
The unasked questions are already gearing up like can you downgrade? an upgraded vista(say home to ultimate) if you decide you don't like it? Which version is suited to my needs? Does xxx program run on xx editions? How much in bulk licensing. How do I tell which requires which activation.
Worse then it is, is debatable. It would depend on worse case senerio, and the more your throw out, the bigger the worse case senerio can be. I would say Microsoft expects to need to spend a lot more of their budget on marketing and support.
I agree with you that five versions is stupid. Vista Basic should not even be an option, Premium for the most part is Basic with Aero the 3d desktop. Vista should be smart enough to do a hardware evaluation when installed and if you have intergrated graphics then Aero is just not an option, if you upgrade you hardware then there should be a way to activate Aero. Appears that isnt the case.
Based on the MS site I believe Business version will also large scale upgrades for most home users this isnt a valid upgrade.
Premium will be the top seller. Ultimate is just Premium and Business bundled together.
Should have been just two version a Home version which included Aero and a Business version to help manage large scale deployment.
The only issue I had is whenver you walk into an Apple Store they tell eveyrone Vista is going to be 345.00 to upgrade and that just isnt the truth.
I dont see the Vista release as being all that interesting. For those that have a 1-2 year old computer they wont upgrade until they buy a new computer that will already come with Vista. For thos with a 6month or less computer will most likely just upgread for 140.00 to Premium.
OEM's like Dell and HP have Vista before its released to the public and will just simply be an option on their computers.
Unlike the Mac world there are gamers like that trade out hardware often that is the only subgroup that will most likely end up buying full versions.
Unlike the Mac world there are gamers like that trade out hardware often that is the only subgroup that will most likely end up buying full versions.
You have too much faith in humans.
You have too much faith in humans.
I guess my point being most users will not purchase a full version. I use both OS platforms, Mac users view new OS releases with anticipation on the PC side there is far more media driven hype then actual user interest.
It should be 2 cpus on home and 4+ on Business / Ultimate
aka if you want to run vista on your mac pro you need Business / Ultimate and Business is missing Media Center features.