G5: I want the TRUTH

junkyard dawgjunkyard dawg
Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
I've been siftin' and sortin' through all the bogus claims here, but few posts articulate the truth. Ready for it?



The register and MOSR are correct, to a point. The clockspeed will not meet their predictions, but this is a minor point. Of major importance is that the G5 will arrive, and it will be hideously fast.



1. Why is the G5 nearly here? Because Apple has been dumping money into G5 development ever since the 500MHz G4 debacle. As soon as the G4's scaling bug was discovered, Apple decided to cut their losses and concentrate R&D on the G5.



This year has brought very minimal gains in performance for the G4. Apple cannot remain in business for long with these sorts of gains. We've only gone frome 500MHz to 867 MHz this year, which is quite pathetic for a year. Factor in the 18 months at 500 MHz, and it's a wonder that Apple is still in business.



2. Why will the G5 debute at lower MHz? Apple has two reasons for introducing the G5 at lower clockspeeds. Number one is that they do not wish to alienate recent powermac buyers by jumping to 1.6 GHz. It would render all existing powermacs obsolete, and thus their value would bottom out. It is in Apple's best interest to maintain the value of older powermacs. Second, it is good business sense to introduce the G5 at a lower MHz, and the gradually, throughout the year, boost MHz. With each boost in MHz, Apple will get another wave of sales, and their profits will be maximized.



So expect the G5 to debute with only modest MHz gains. However, the performance gains will be staggering. 400 MHz system bus, ddr RAM....this thing is going to be a total beast. Maya is going to rock on it, and even at the lower MHz, the G5 will stomp Pentium 4s. Yes, it will be that fast.



Here's what to expect for the G5 intro:



Powermacs:

900 MHz

1 GHz

1.1 GHz

1.1 GHz, dual



The low end mac may even use a G4, with older mobo to save money and boost profits.



However, by the end of 2002, expect powermacs using G5s with speeds up to 1.8-2.0 GHz. Apple is serious about recapturing the lead in desktop computing performance. By the end of next year, the Powermac will be faster than any Wintel available, and OS X will be fully optimized and feature-laden. It is a good time to be a Mac user, and Apple is going to be gaining marketshare with a little luck. All the pieces are in place for a Mac revolution.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 43
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    I can't resist:



    YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
  • Reply 2 of 43
    aaronsaarons Posts: 31member
    Sounds like with a faster Bus, DDRRAM and those speeds that the previous line of PowerMacs WOULD be "alienated", as you put it.



    Those speeds may be accurate, but I doubt Apple could punch out a 1.6Ghz G5 in the initail release...
  • Reply 3 of 43
    junkyard dawgjunkyard dawg Posts: 2,801member
    No, you don't understand. Alienating the customers is based primarily on MHz. Apple could sell a low-end powermac that's twice as fast as the current high-end powermac, but as long as the MHz aren't much greater, few will realize it.



    As for the G5 MHz ratings, Moto is pumping out G5s all the way up to 2 GHz. 1.6 could be done by March or so. But Apple isn't going to use them...they will stick to 1.1-1.2 GHz at most for the first release. This also gives Apple time to stockpile the faster G5s so when they are released Apple has enough for dualies or more.
  • Reply 4 of 43
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    How about they DO release the g5's at 1.2-1.6GHz but at the same time have G5 upgrades available for DA=QS powermac owners(reasonably priced of course)? That way they don't alienate users and extend the value of their older systems. Apple did it before when they released the PowerPC in 94. They offered motherboard upgrades then. now it is much simpler, a daughtercard would be all that's necessary and perhaps an OS upgrade/patch.
  • Reply 5 of 43
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    I have been thinking last night, G5 is definately not coming in January if any of the rumours *are* correct. why?



    G5 is at rev 0.6 (probably 0.7 by now). Assuming a revision every 2-3 weeks, it would be the end of december before revision 1.



    Do you think Apple is going to be able to take the finished G5, design a MB for it, have it beta tested, have suppliers make tens of thousands of finished MB's, ship them to Apple early January for release at MWSF?



    Im sure Apple has developed working Prototype MB for the revisions available, but you cant design a finished MB for a product that doesn't exist in its final state.



    I think even a February MWTokyo would be pushing it a bit.
  • Reply 6 of 43
    johnsonfromwisconsinjohnsonfromwisconsin Posts: 80member
    [quote]1. Why is the G5 nearly here? Because Apple has been dumping money into G5 development ever since the 500MHz G4 debacle. As soon as the G4's scaling bug was discovered, Apple decided to cut their losses and concentrate R&D on the G5.

    <hr></blockquote>



    Couple things.



    1)It does not follow that "dumping" money will result in a product finished on schedule.



    2)The G4's 'scaling bug' wasn't a bug. Rather the culmination of a design that wasn't built to scale well *and* Motorola's own process technology.
  • Reply 7 of 43
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Apple might have some interest in placating their existing user base, but there are two interests in direct conflict: First of all, Apple has every reason to want to spark a big old round of hardware upgrades, and the more machines they obsolete, the more upgrades they sell - up to a point. Second of all, Steve has acknowledged that Apple has some catching up to do MHz-wise, and he's stated that Apple will close the "MHz gap." That strongly implies an accelerated upgrade schedule, similar in fact to the one that both Intel and AMD adopted when they started racing each other.
  • Reply 8 of 43
    formerlurkerformerlurker Posts: 2,686member
    Never thought I'd see the day that I would say this, but....



    Excellent post, JD, and I agree completely.





    You have to look at the evolution of both technology and marketing to see Apple's future directions, and I think you've nailed it.
  • Reply 9 of 43
    nonhumannonhuman Posts: 131member
    I think it would be good for Apple to start out the G5 with a large speed boost. If you're right about them having 2 Ghz G5s, then I'd say maybe they should wait on those for the stockpiling purposes mentioned, but they should start out close for a couple of reasons.



    1. as pointed out this would get more users to upgrade

    2. it would "close the MHz gap" and put allow Apple to be competitive MHz-wise

    3. it would show people that the G5 is a processor to respect. A sudden jump from 867 MHz to over 1.5 GHz would make people think (hopefully accurately) that Apple is really going somewhere, and that the Macintosh is a platform worth investing in
  • Reply 10 of 43
    junkyard dawgjunkyard dawg Posts: 2,801member
    [quote] How about they DO release the g5's at 1.2-1.6GHz but at the same time have G5 upgrades available for DA=QS powermac owners(reasonably priced of course)? <hr></blockquote>



    LOL, ROTFLMAO!!! &lt;wipes tears from eyes&gt;



    Dude, will you send me some of that fine sh!t you're smokin'? 'Cause it's been really dry around here!



    The chances of Apple selling CPU upgrades under Steve Jobs are about as good as the chances of me moving to Afghanistan and opening up a whorehouse. Apple makes their money off computers, not upgrade cards.



    There are also technical limitations. The G5 would need a different power supply, more elaborate cooling, and probably would not run under the older sawtooth mobo without extensive modifications. Apple is busting their asses to get the G5 running on a specific mobo, and they don't have time to design a G5 daughter card for old mobos.



    But mainly, the current Apple is not in the business of selling upgrade cards. Since Jobs has returned to Apple, they have done everything in their power to prevent users from overclocking, upgrading, and anything else that would postpone buying a new mac.
  • Reply 11 of 43
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    Listen, up until a couple weeks ago, who would have thought Apple would be in the MP3 player business? I thought that was the oddest thing... upgrade cards from Apple would make more sense.. especially if the actual G5 motherboards were in short supply, the cards would make a good transition. i think Apple is willing to try new things - the iPod and future devices to come out should attest to that. Most likely this won't come to pass but they should consider it. i can't buy a mac every 6 months.
  • Reply 12 of 43
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    [quote]Originally posted by MarcUK:

    <strong>I have been thinking last night, G5 is definately not coming in January if any of the rumours *are* correct. why?



    G5 is at rev 0.6 (probably 0.7 by now). Assuming a revision every 2-3 weeks, it would be the end of december before revision 1.</strong>

    <hr></blockquote>



    Yeah, well what if 0.7 is becomes the final candidate smartypants? There would be no need for 0.8 or 0.9.



    [quote]

    Do you think Apple is going to be able to take the finished G5, design a MB for it, have it beta tested, have suppliers make tens of thousands of finished MB's, ship them to Apple early January for release at MWSF?

    <hr></blockquote>



    Well if Dorsal could be trusted (and he can't...you all blindly follow him...JYD is right, Dorsal has been spewing bullshit and you've all been eating it up and lovin' it) then the MBs have been done for a long time. But like I said, Dorsal == bullshit.



    That doesn't mean the MB aren't done though. I'm sure Apple is almost done with the mobos.



    [quote]

    Im sure Apple has developed working Prototype MB for the revisions available, but you cant design a finished MB for a product that doesn't exist in its final state.



    I think even a February MWTokyo would be pushing it a bit.<hr></blockquote>



    True...the mobo can't be done until the final revision of the G5 is on ol' Steve-o's laps. But what makes you think it isn't? The Register? MOSR? You're mother? LOL!



    Besides, I'm building the plastics for the new G5 right now! And I've taken an English course.



    [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: kim kap sol ]</p>
  • Reply 13 of 43
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    Does it look anything like the Okama game sphere???



  • Reply 14 of 43
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    [quote]Originally posted by Outsider:

    <strong>Does it look anything like the Okama game sphere???</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That's classified.



    You wouldn't want ol' Kenny from Korea to lose his assembly line job now would you?



    [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: kim kap sol ]</p>
  • Reply 15 of 43
    mikerallymikerally Posts: 12member
    You guys are all dreaming, I'm sorry to say but you are all heading for a big let down this January.



    1Ghz G4 Macs, yes, but G5's, no way.



    While I do agree that the G5 will be out within the next year, it's gonna be a while yet.
  • Reply 16 of 43
    slackerslacker Posts: 127member
    Oh how I've missed this board....



    The speculation....

    The BS....

    The Name calling...

    The love...
  • Reply 17 of 43
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Ok, once and for all, everyone needs to understand that the 'alienating previous customers' train of thought is ridiculous. Once you buy your mac Apple tries hard to keep you happy with timely updates of mac exclusive software like iTunes and iMovie and AppleWorks, but that's it. The reason they would gradually increase speeds could only be two. 1) Market projections indicate there is more money to be made from gradually bumping models at that particular time, or 2) faster chips just aren't ready for volume production.



    Apple otherwise doesn't give a crap if your machine is rapidly superceded by another, even the day after you buy it. That's supposed to be the goal! Any appearance to the contrary is most likely due a lack of faster parts.



    [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
  • Reply 18 of 43
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    Matsu

    agreed

    There is no way Apple would sit on faster equipment just to keep recent customers from feeling let down.
  • Reply 19 of 43
    slackerslacker Posts: 127member
    I bought a 7100 when they first came out and shortly thereafter they switched to PCI and dumped Nubus. This is obviously a switch that was in the works for a while, and they didn't care that I got screwed. AND THEY SHOULDN'T CARE.



    Apples goal should be to release machines in a timely fashion to keep interest and demand up. If technology is available and doesn't hurt the bottom line they will add it.



    I just can't beleive how many people complain when they buy a new computer and something better comes along, yet when Apple has a MHz slump and no significant speed bumps they also complain. Which way do you want it???? I've got news for you, the day BEFORE you buy your new computer they've already got something faster in the works.
  • Reply 20 of 43
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Buying a fast new computer is very similar to buying a fast, fancy new car. It's quite a thrill at first but the new, fast, everybody looks at it thrill doesn't last more than about 3 years.



    In order to get the maximum time out of this you have to spend the maximum amount of money.



    It's fun while it lasts but, you can't get upset when something new comes along ( or if you buy just before the new model comes out ). That's just the way it is and you still have something nice.



    I know people who would love to have my G4 450 that I bought in 2000. It ain't fast in comparison anymore but I still enjoy it a lot.



    [ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
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