Thankfully, I haven't had either happen to me in nearly a decade. That still doesn't mean I'm going to take the chance. Generally the drive's a lot cheaper than the data so I just go with extra drives.
Again, I'm not saying it is the best way to do it. But, there will be people who, for whatever reason , will not buy a backup device, no matter what it is, or how cheap. But they might do this. It's better than not doing anything.
Me neither. Time Machine isn't just for recovery from hard drive crashes. It's for getting back files that you deleted, or going back to a previous version of a file from 4 days ago since you made a mess of it trying to "improve" it.
And Time Machine works on the app that you are in when you launch it - if Finder is frontmost, Time Machine looks for Finder files; if you launch TIme Machine from iTunes, it looks for music; if you launch it from iPhoto, it looks for photos that were deleted from the iPhoto library.
Just FWIW:
Quote:
In particular, a forum post points to a "File Recovery" panel that turned up in a new version of Apple's Disk Utility expected to ship with the new system software. It includes presets for iTunes, iMovie and iPhoto file types, and also offers a "Custom" option to aid in recovery of files from additional applications.
"File recovery works best on disks whose files are not heavily fragmented and have not been overwritten by new files," reads a message in the new panel. "File Recovery will not be able to recover files that have been Secure Erased."
The Disk Utility function is likely a tie-in to Apple's Time Machine application, which will offer Leopard users automatic backups of their data files and application histories.
This is completely unrelated to Time Machine, actually. It's simply a feature like Norton UnErase and whathaveyou.
Again, I'm not saying it is the best way to do it. But, there will be people who, for whatever reason , will not buy a backup device, no matter what it is, or how cheap. But they might do this. It's better than not doing anything.
That's why I have to start mocking people if they lose their life's data due to such a failure. While a separate partition is better than nothing, I really don't think there is an excuse. An external hard drive can be had for dirt.
That's why I have to start mocking people if they lose their life's data due to such a failure. While a separate partition is better than nothing, I really don't think there is an excuse. An external hard drive can be had for dirt.
Sure, I've said that. But even with 10.5 making it so easy, I'm willing to bet that most people STILL won't buy a drive for backup. Want to take that bet?
Sure, I've said that. But even with 10.5 making it so easy, I'm willing to bet that most people STILL won't buy a drive for backup. Want to take that bet?
I think Apple's cited numbers (25% bother to have a backup system at all; 4% have one that actually works) prove your bet right, so we don't even need to discuss it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
They are not. But at some point they will become more common.
Sure, I've said that. But even with 10.5 making it so easy, I'm willing to bet that most people STILL won't buy a drive for backup. Want to take that bet?
I think you are right that most won't buy a separate drive, but it's just not a good idea to avoid it. It may be largely the people that haven't had a drive failure yet, reject experienced advice and do this. I just think that the practice of avoiding a separate device should be highly discouraged, especially if the data is of any value, be it sentimental or monetary. Time Machine will be good for backing out of file handling mistakes and the odd corruption but that's about it.
I think Apple's cited numbers (25% bother to have a backup system at all; 4% have one that actually works) prove your bet right, so we don't even need to discuss it.
I remember the 4% as the state for those that use a fully automated backup plan, not a working one.
I remember the 4% as the state for those that use a fully automated backup plan, not a working one.
I don't have the exact quote. My understanding was that the 4% refer to "ineffective", useless backups, i.e. those that aren't created frequently/regularly enough, or simply don't restore correctly (hello .mac Backup 3!), or incompletely.
I'm sorry, but again, I don't agree.…So, a seperate partition IS better than nothing.
Lets get this straight.
Copying or duping a file to your drive or a partition on your drive is highly recommended by myself and everybody in this instution of higher learning. But it is still not backing up your hard drive.
We are talking about Time Machine and everything that we have been given by Apple tells us that this program is designed to simplify the backup process and restoration of your system to a specific period of time you so select. It is intended that you use an external drive or server to back up to. Not to an internal partition on your machine.
Sure copying data to another partition is better than nothing. We do it all the time, actually dozens of times a day. Create code. Dupe the file. Test the code. Change the code. Dupe… etc. etc. Twice a day, the system is completely (incrementally) backed up.
Now, I am sure that if your life was not dependent on the contents of your computer, anything else than the occassional back up to CD is fine. However, as seen in the release of Tiger, a number of quite knowledgeable individuals did not follow Apple's recommendations, i.e., backup, disk image, etc., causing considerable furror and a lot of wasted time.
With a lot of our students using laptops, the idea of anybody walking out the door with all their curriculm only stuffed in their back packs defies logic and common sense. Certainly not somebody that you would want to guide your IT department.
I think you are right that most won't buy a separate drive, but it's just not a good idea to avoid it. It may be largely the people that haven't had a drive failure yet, reject experienced advice and do this. I just think that the practice of avoiding a separate device should be highly discouraged, especially if the data is of any value, be it sentimental or monetary. Time Machine will be good for backing out of file handling mistakes and the odd corruption but that's about it.
I always encourage people to have some backup. Any backup.
I have a friend who owns a small department store in Brooklyn. She had a tape backup, because I constantly bothered her to install one.
Her system went down early this year. I said that it was a good thing she installed the backup.
To my considerable surprise and consternation, she told me that it had stopped working, and she didn't replace it because she didn't want to spend the money.
So, it took two weeks for her to rebuild her database, and she never got all of it back from her paper trail.
That's not inconsistant with even most small business owners.
And her problem was NOT that the drive went south, it was the corruption of the disk database and files that were the cause.
Again, that is the main cause of data loss, not an actual drive failure.
Sure, I've said that. But even with 10.5 making it so easy, I'm willing to bet that most people STILL won't buy a drive for backup. Want to take that bet?
Yeah, that was me until just recently. In the past if I ever lost my hard drive, it would have been a major inconvenience. But now, well now I have hundreds of dollars invested in iTunes music, software purchases (online download only, receipt via email) and a web site that took 100's of hours. I have backups of all of this, but only now am I thinking of buying a separate external hard drive (I have a MBP) for backups. So if any of you experts can recommend a good external hard drive.....
I remember the 4% as the state for those that use a fully automated backup plan, not a working one.
I think the 4% refers to people who have a backup plan in place, and who excercise it, rather than just having a backup device that is used irregularly, as most people who have backup devices at home (and in small business, as I've just said) tend to do.
Most people who have backup devices tend to use them less frequently as time goes on, because they are simply too much trouble, and take too much time. As they don't have problems, they start to feel as though they really don't need it, and so stop using it on a useful schedule.
Instances on Mac OS X of applications transmitting private data without your consent are fairly rare.
This comment leads me to believe you don't use Little Snitch. I guess the term "rare" leaves a lot of room for interpretation, but be careful of your assumptions.
And even if it meets your definition of "rare", do you want -any- information transmitted outbound without your permission? I don't.
Copying or duping a file to your drive or a partition on your drive is highly recommended by myself and everybody in this instution of higher learning. But it is still not backing up your hard drive.
We are talking about Time Machine and everything that we have been given by Apple tells us that this program is designed to simplify the backup process and restoration of your system to a specific period of time you so select. It is intended that you use an external drive or server to back up to. Not to an internal partition on your machine.
Sure copying data to another partition is better than nothing. We do it all the time, actually dozens of times a day. Create code. Dupe the file. Test the code. Change the code. Dupe? etc. etc. Twice a day, the system is completely (incrementally) backed up.
Now, I am sure that if your life was not dependent on the contents of your computer, anything else than the occassional back up to CD is fine. However, as seen in the release of Tiger, a number of quite knowledgeable individuals did not follow Apple's recommendations, i.e., backup, disk image, etc., causing considerable furror and a lot of wasted time.
With a lot of our students using laptops, the idea of anybody walking out the door with all their curriculm only stuffed in their back packs defies logic and common sense. Certainly not somebody that you would want to guide your IT department.
All I'm saying, and I've now had to repeat it in several posts, so it shows how much people are really paying attention, is that it IS better than nothing.
But, that's all. Better than nothing.No matter what, we will never convince many people to go out and BUY something that they can't use for anything other than backup.
Like it or not, most people think that duplicating their files is a waste of money.
Do I agree with that? Of course not!
I have 12 drives in my system, between the ones internal to both of my machines, and the external towers. One tower also serves as the unit for my backup drives. Those are in addition to the 12 primary drives.
So, do I believe in backup? You bet! I also backup onto DVD, and soon, I hope to multi-layer Blu-Ray. I still use my old AIT I used for my video projects.
But, even with this to show my friends, they mostly still don't backup.
With large drives being the norm these days, it will be easier to convince people to simply make a partition to use for backup rather than to convince them to buy another drive.
Again, I hope for the last time?not ideal, but better than nothing.
Yeah, that was me until just recently. In the past if I ever lost my hard drive, it would have been a major inconvenience. But now, well now I have hundreds of dollars invested in iTunes music, software purchases (online download only, receipt via email) and a web site that took 100's of hours. I have backups of all of this, but only now am I thinking of buying a separate external hard drive (I have a MBP) for backups. So if any of you experts can recommend a good external hard drive.....
Instead, I would strongly recommend that you backup your music files to CD, or DVD. That external hd is just as likely to fail as your internal one, though likely it will also be due to corruption, rather than to an actual hd failure, allowing you to reformat it.
Here's what I'd like, since I'm using my MBP (on the road) far more than my desktop Mac right now:
An Expresscard/34 flash memory card.
30+ Gig. (Yeah, yeah ... expensive)
It would be perfect, though, as I could just leave it in the laptop all the time and have Time Machine backup my most important data to it. Saves me from carting around a small external HD, too.
This comment leads me to believe you don't use Little Snitch. I guess the term "rare" leaves a lot of room for interpretation, but be careful of your assumptions.
Then you should be more careful to make assumptions.
Quote:
And even if it meets your definition of "rare", do you want -any- information transmitted outbound without your permission? I don't.
For my personal experience, it fits my definition of "never". For those who are less educated about which applications to use (and which ones not to), it may be more common, but still very rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
All I'm saying, and I've now had to repeat it in several posts, so it shows how much people are really paying attention, is that it IS better than nothing.
I think everyone agrees with that.
Quote:
Like it or not, most people think that duplicating their files is a waste of money.
I agree (that many people feel that way).
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Instead, I would strongly recommend that you backup your music files to CD, or DVD. That external hd is just as likely to fail as your internal one, though likely it will also be due to corruption, rather than to an actual hd failure, allowing you to reformat it.
Optical discs aren't that great for longevity either, though better than hard drives.
Instead, I would strongly recommend that you backup your music files to CD, or DVD. That external hd is just as likely to fail as your internal one, though likely it will also be due to corruption, rather than to an actual hd failure, allowing you to reformat it.
I understand that the backup drive is just as likely to fail, but hopefully the odds of it and my MBP drive failing at the same time are slim.
And for me (and probably most people) to actually be diligent about backups, I want it to be as easy as possible. ("Set it and forget it.") I want to schedule backups and then let the thing run on that schedule. I don't want to have to worry about having a DVD/CD ready in the drive or running out of them. Or storing them or losing them.
Comments
Unless you've already unwittingly installed a trojan horse, or spyware.
Those aren't common on OS X either, though.
Thankfully, I haven't had either happen to me in nearly a decade. That still doesn't mean I'm going to take the chance. Generally the drive's a lot cheaper than the data so I just go with extra drives.
Again, I'm not saying it is the best way to do it. But, there will be people who, for whatever reason , will not buy a backup device, no matter what it is, or how cheap. But they might do this. It's better than not doing anything.
Me neither. Time Machine isn't just for recovery from hard drive crashes. It's for getting back files that you deleted, or going back to a previous version of a file from 4 days ago since you made a mess of it trying to "improve" it.
And Time Machine works on the app that you are in when you launch it - if Finder is frontmost, Time Machine looks for Finder files; if you launch TIme Machine from iTunes, it looks for music; if you launch it from iPhoto, it looks for photos that were deleted from the iPhoto library.
Just FWIW:
In particular, a forum post points to a "File Recovery" panel that turned up in a new version of Apple's Disk Utility expected to ship with the new system software. It includes presets for iTunes, iMovie and iPhoto file types, and also offers a "Custom" option to aid in recovery of files from additional applications.
"File recovery works best on disks whose files are not heavily fragmented and have not been overwritten by new files," reads a message in the new panel. "File Recovery will not be able to recover files that have been Secure Erased."
The Disk Utility function is likely a tie-in to Apple's Time Machine application, which will offer Leopard users automatic backups of their data files and application histories.
This is completely unrelated to Time Machine, actually. It's simply a feature like Norton UnErase and whathaveyou.
Again, I'm not saying it is the best way to do it. But, there will be people who, for whatever reason , will not buy a backup device, no matter what it is, or how cheap. But they might do this. It's better than not doing anything.
That's why I have to start mocking people if they lose their life's data due to such a failure. While a separate partition is better than nothing, I really don't think there is an excuse. An external hard drive can be had for dirt.
Those aren't common on OS X either, though.
They are not. But at some point they will become more common.
That's why I have to start mocking people if they lose their life's data due to such a failure. While a separate partition is better than nothing, I really don't think there is an excuse. An external hard drive can be had for dirt.
Sure, I've said that. But even with 10.5 making it so easy, I'm willing to bet that most people STILL won't buy a drive for backup. Want to take that bet?
Sure, I've said that. But even with 10.5 making it so easy, I'm willing to bet that most people STILL won't buy a drive for backup. Want to take that bet?
I think Apple's cited numbers (25% bother to have a backup system at all; 4% have one that actually works) prove your bet right, so we don't even need to discuss it.
They are not. But at some point they will become more common.
Yep.
Sure, I've said that. But even with 10.5 making it so easy, I'm willing to bet that most people STILL won't buy a drive for backup. Want to take that bet?
I think you are right that most won't buy a separate drive, but it's just not a good idea to avoid it. It may be largely the people that haven't had a drive failure yet, reject experienced advice and do this. I just think that the practice of avoiding a separate device should be highly discouraged, especially if the data is of any value, be it sentimental or monetary. Time Machine will be good for backing out of file handling mistakes and the odd corruption but that's about it.
I think Apple's cited numbers (25% bother to have a backup system at all; 4% have one that actually works) prove your bet right, so we don't even need to discuss it.
I remember the 4% as the state for those that use a fully automated backup plan, not a working one.
I remember the 4% as the state for those that use a fully automated backup plan, not a working one.
I don't have the exact quote. My understanding was that the 4% refer to "ineffective", useless backups, i.e. those that aren't created frequently/regularly enough, or simply don't restore correctly (hello .mac Backup 3!), or incompletely.
I'm sorry, but again, I don't agree.…So, a seperate partition IS better than nothing.
Lets get this straight.
Copying or duping a file to your drive or a partition on your drive is highly recommended by myself and everybody in this instution of higher learning. But it is still not backing up your hard drive.
We are talking about Time Machine and everything that we have been given by Apple tells us that this program is designed to simplify the backup process and restoration of your system to a specific period of time you so select. It is intended that you use an external drive or server to back up to. Not to an internal partition on your machine.
Sure copying data to another partition is better than nothing. We do it all the time, actually dozens of times a day. Create code. Dupe the file. Test the code. Change the code. Dupe… etc. etc. Twice a day, the system is completely (incrementally) backed up.
Now, I am sure that if your life was not dependent on the contents of your computer, anything else than the occassional back up to CD is fine. However, as seen in the release of Tiger, a number of quite knowledgeable individuals did not follow Apple's recommendations, i.e., backup, disk image, etc., causing considerable furror and a lot of wasted time.
With a lot of our students using laptops, the idea of anybody walking out the door with all their curriculm only stuffed in their back packs defies logic and common sense. Certainly not somebody that you would want to guide your IT department.
I think you are right that most won't buy a separate drive, but it's just not a good idea to avoid it. It may be largely the people that haven't had a drive failure yet, reject experienced advice and do this. I just think that the practice of avoiding a separate device should be highly discouraged, especially if the data is of any value, be it sentimental or monetary. Time Machine will be good for backing out of file handling mistakes and the odd corruption but that's about it.
I always encourage people to have some backup. Any backup.
I have a friend who owns a small department store in Brooklyn. She had a tape backup, because I constantly bothered her to install one.
Her system went down early this year. I said that it was a good thing she installed the backup.
To my considerable surprise and consternation, she told me that it had stopped working, and she didn't replace it because she didn't want to spend the money.
So, it took two weeks for her to rebuild her database, and she never got all of it back from her paper trail.
That's not inconsistant with even most small business owners.
And her problem was NOT that the drive went south, it was the corruption of the disk database and files that were the cause.
Again, that is the main cause of data loss, not an actual drive failure.
Sure, I've said that. But even with 10.5 making it so easy, I'm willing to bet that most people STILL won't buy a drive for backup. Want to take that bet?
Yeah, that was me until just recently. In the past if I ever lost my hard drive, it would have been a major inconvenience. But now, well now I have hundreds of dollars invested in iTunes music, software purchases (online download only, receipt via email) and a web site that took 100's of hours. I have backups of all of this, but only now am I thinking of buying a separate external hard drive (I have a MBP) for backups. So if any of you experts can recommend a good external hard drive.....
I remember the 4% as the state for those that use a fully automated backup plan, not a working one.
I think the 4% refers to people who have a backup plan in place, and who excercise it, rather than just having a backup device that is used irregularly, as most people who have backup devices at home (and in small business, as I've just said) tend to do.
Most people who have backup devices tend to use them less frequently as time goes on, because they are simply too much trouble, and take too much time. As they don't have problems, they start to feel as though they really don't need it, and so stop using it on a useful schedule.
Instances on Mac OS X of applications transmitting private data without your consent are fairly rare.
This comment leads me to believe you don't use Little Snitch. I guess the term "rare" leaves a lot of room for interpretation, but be careful of your assumptions.
And even if it meets your definition of "rare", do you want -any- information transmitted outbound without your permission? I don't.
Lets get this straight.
Copying or duping a file to your drive or a partition on your drive is highly recommended by myself and everybody in this instution of higher learning. But it is still not backing up your hard drive.
We are talking about Time Machine and everything that we have been given by Apple tells us that this program is designed to simplify the backup process and restoration of your system to a specific period of time you so select. It is intended that you use an external drive or server to back up to. Not to an internal partition on your machine.
Sure copying data to another partition is better than nothing. We do it all the time, actually dozens of times a day. Create code. Dupe the file. Test the code. Change the code. Dupe? etc. etc. Twice a day, the system is completely (incrementally) backed up.
Now, I am sure that if your life was not dependent on the contents of your computer, anything else than the occassional back up to CD is fine. However, as seen in the release of Tiger, a number of quite knowledgeable individuals did not follow Apple's recommendations, i.e., backup, disk image, etc., causing considerable furror and a lot of wasted time.
With a lot of our students using laptops, the idea of anybody walking out the door with all their curriculm only stuffed in their back packs defies logic and common sense. Certainly not somebody that you would want to guide your IT department.
All I'm saying, and I've now had to repeat it in several posts, so it shows how much people are really paying attention, is that it IS better than nothing.
But, that's all. Better than nothing.No matter what, we will never convince many people to go out and BUY something that they can't use for anything other than backup.
Like it or not, most people think that duplicating their files is a waste of money.
Do I agree with that? Of course not!
I have 12 drives in my system, between the ones internal to both of my machines, and the external towers. One tower also serves as the unit for my backup drives. Those are in addition to the 12 primary drives.
So, do I believe in backup? You bet! I also backup onto DVD, and soon, I hope to multi-layer Blu-Ray. I still use my old AIT I used for my video projects.
But, even with this to show my friends, they mostly still don't backup.
With large drives being the norm these days, it will be easier to convince people to simply make a partition to use for backup rather than to convince them to buy another drive.
Again, I hope for the last time?not ideal, but better than nothing.
Yeah, that was me until just recently. In the past if I ever lost my hard drive, it would have been a major inconvenience. But now, well now I have hundreds of dollars invested in iTunes music, software purchases (online download only, receipt via email) and a web site that took 100's of hours. I have backups of all of this, but only now am I thinking of buying a separate external hard drive (I have a MBP) for backups. So if any of you experts can recommend a good external hard drive.....
Instead, I would strongly recommend that you backup your music files to CD, or DVD. That external hd is just as likely to fail as your internal one, though likely it will also be due to corruption, rather than to an actual hd failure, allowing you to reformat it.
An Expresscard/34 flash memory card.
30+ Gig. (Yeah, yeah ... expensive)
It would be perfect, though, as I could just leave it in the laptop all the time and have Time Machine backup my most important data to it. Saves me from carting around a small external HD, too.
This comment leads me to believe you don't use Little Snitch. I guess the term "rare" leaves a lot of room for interpretation, but be careful of your assumptions.
Then you should be more careful to make assumptions.
And even if it meets your definition of "rare", do you want -any- information transmitted outbound without your permission? I don't.
For my personal experience, it fits my definition of "never". For those who are less educated about which applications to use (and which ones not to), it may be more common, but still very rare.
All I'm saying, and I've now had to repeat it in several posts, so it shows how much people are really paying attention, is that it IS better than nothing.
I think everyone agrees with that.
Like it or not, most people think that duplicating their files is a waste of money.
I agree (that many people feel that way).
Instead, I would strongly recommend that you backup your music files to CD, or DVD. That external hd is just as likely to fail as your internal one, though likely it will also be due to corruption, rather than to an actual hd failure, allowing you to reformat it.
Optical discs aren't that great for longevity either, though better than hard drives.
Instead, I would strongly recommend that you backup your music files to CD, or DVD. That external hd is just as likely to fail as your internal one, though likely it will also be due to corruption, rather than to an actual hd failure, allowing you to reformat it.
I understand that the backup drive is just as likely to fail, but hopefully the odds of it and my MBP drive failing at the same time are slim.
And for me (and probably most people) to actually be diligent about backups, I want it to be as easy as possible. ("Set it and forget it.") I want to schedule backups and then let the thing run on that schedule. I don't want to have to worry about having a DVD/CD ready in the drive or running out of them. Or storing them or losing them.