I understand that the backup drive is just as likely to fail, but hopefully the odds of it and my MBP drive failing at the same time are slim.
And for me (and probably most people) to actually be diligent about backups, I want it to be as easy as possible. ("Set it and forget it.") I want to schedule backups and then let the thing run on that schedule. I don't want to have to worry about having a DVD/CD ready in the drive or running out of them. Or storing them or losing them.
If you are so disorganized that you worry about losing your backups to disk, then there isn't much else to say. But, disks are likely to last 30 years, if kept away from glove compartments, radiators, etc.
If you are so disorganized that you worry about losing your backups to disk, then there isn't much else to say. But, disks are likely to last 30 years, if kept away from glove compartments, radiators, etc.
Hd's on the other hand, can go south tomorrow.
Well, I may be a bit disorganized, but a suspect a few other people with Macs and valuable data may be disorganized also. So I don't think I'm alone in my need for something simple and unattended. And losing CDs was really the least of my worries, hence the last thing I mentioned.
It's much more of a pain to be dealing with CDs in general. I want backups to run in the background without any intervention from me. I like what I have now which is my MBP backs up wirelessly to an old PC on my network. But as I'm running low on space, I'd like to have something bigger. Plus I've heard that Backup.app can be unreliable for restores(!) so I'm looking for better software too.
So like I said, if any of you experts want to make a hardware or software suggestion, don't hesitate.....
All I'm saying, and I've now had to repeat it in several posts, so it shows how much people are really paying attention, is that it IS better than nothing.
But, that's all. Better than nothing.No matter what, we will never convince many people to go out and BUY something that they can't use for anything other than backup.
Like it or not, most people think that duplicating their files is a waste of money.
Do I agree with that? Of course not!
I have 12 drives in my system, between the ones internal to both of my machines, and the external towers. One tower also serves as the unit for my backup drives. Those are in addition to the 12 primary drives.
So, do I believe in backup? You bet! I also backup onto DVD, and soon, I hope to multi-layer Blu-Ray. I still use my old AIT I used for my video projects.
But, even with this to show my friends, they mostly still don't backup.
With large drives being the norm these days, it will be easier to convince people to simply make a partition to use for backup rather than to convince them to buy another drive.
Again, I hope for the last time?not ideal, but better than nothing.
Amazing. I agreed that copying a file to a partitioned drive was better than nothing.
Well, I may be a bit disorganized, but a suspect a few other people with Macs and valuable data may be disorganized also. So I don't think I'm alone in my need for something simple and unattended. And losing CDs was really the least of my worries, hence the last thing I mentioned.
It's much more of a pain to be dealing with CDs in general. I want backups to run in the background without any intervention from me. I like what I have now which is my MBP backs up wirelessly to an old PC on my network. But as I'm running low on space, I'd like to have something bigger. Plus I've heard that Backup.app can be unreliable for restores(!) so I'm looking for better software too.
So like I said, if any of you experts want to make a hardware or software suggestion, don't hesitate.....
The hardware is just about the same for typical amateur users. The good backup systems (translate to "reliable") cost far too much for most people.
Backups, if one expects them to actually work over the long term, use the grandfather, father, son method (or grandmother, mother daughter).
You back up everything on your drives, say, once a month. Remove that from the premises. Bzck up changed data once a week, and remove that as well.
Then back up dayly changes.
Once a month, redo the monthly backup, and once a week, the weekly backup. I do that for my startup drive, and one other.
If you are concerned with safety, that's the only way. You can use 10.5 auto backup for the daily backups, but still need the other two for ultimate security.
But, CD's and DVD's are a medium alternative, because they are so cheap.
SuperDuper is one of the best backup programs around. I don't recall if it's universal as yet.
Amazing. I agreed that copying a file to a partitioned drive was better than nothing.
Sort of, you did.
But then you negated the entire point by ending with:
"With a lot of our students using laptops, the idea of anybody walking out the door with all their curriculm only stuffed in their back packs defies logic and common sense. Certainly not somebody that you would want to guide your IT department."
The understanding is that people are simply not going to carry an external backup drive with them, and corruption is as likely to occur when in the copse, classroom, or lecture hall, as in the dorm.
Well, I may be a bit disorganized, but a suspect a few other people with Macs and valuable data may be disorganized also. So I don't think I'm alone in my need for something simple and unattended. And losing CDs was really the least of my worries, hence the last thing I mentioned.
It's much more of a pain to be dealing with CDs in general. I want backups to run in the background without any intervention from me. I like what I have now which is my MBP backs up wirelessly to an old PC on my network. But as I'm running low on space, I'd like to have something bigger. Plus I've heard that Backup.app can be unreliable for restores(!) so I'm looking for better software too.
So like I said, if any of you experts want to make a hardware or software suggestion, don't hesitate.....
JupiterOne
I agree.
I personally archive final documents to Cds or DVD's and about 4 times a year will back up whole drives to them. After verification, I then trash redundancies. Incremental backups is virtually impossible and cataloguing such would be a nightmare. Once a year, I back up to tape using my digital movie camera. Slow, but relatively inexpensive. Big problem with either is organization and retrieval. Each extremely time consuming
In any case, I think that we would all agree that up to now, backing up is a mundane process that we would rather have someone else doing. Most important, the costs of secondary drives has been historically high and thus a luxury that many of us found frivilous because we never calculated the cost of our own time restoring a corrupted system.
Now things have changed and it looks like in typical Apple fashion, Steve has developed a solution that just makes it ridiculously simple, easy, fast, unabtrusive and relatively inexpensive. As you and I can well imagine, the fact that we can restore a completely dead system with equal simplicty… is one thing, however, the idea that we will be able go back in time, restore a specific period in time and still be in the present is downright awesome. Let's hope that the many others will understand the new paradigm as I believe you do. Afterall, I think that you are better organized than some would think.
But then you negated the entire point by ending with:
"With a lot of our students using laptops, the idea of anybody walking out the door with all their curriculm only stuffed in their back packs defies logic and common sense. Certainly not somebody that you would want to guide your IT department."
The understanding is that people are simply not going to carry an external backup drive with them, and corruption is as likely to occur when in the copse, classroom, or lecture hall, as in the dorm.
Why in the world would you carry your external backup drive with you? Leave it at your residence. Talk to your prof. Get space on their server. The idea that if you head for the pub directly after class, you don't loose your parents hard earned tuition fees because you tripped over your backpack on the way to the john.
As most IT managers would suggest, backup systems can be done on and left on site, however, the best plan is to have your main backup storage in another location, i.e., in another building.
Why in the world would you carry your external backup drive with you? Leave it at your residence. Talk to your prof. Get space on their server. The idea that if you head for the pub directly after class, you don't loose your parents hard earned tuition fees because you tripped over your backpack on the way to the john.
As most IT managers would suggest, backup systems can be done on and left on site, however, the best plan is to have your main backup storage in another location, i.e., in another building.
The point is that it can fail anywhere. took notes from that two hour lecture? Your computer crashed and you lost it? Too bad your "safe" seperate backup drive is in the dorm, or you haven't had time to connect to the server.
An auto backup to a seperate partition would have saved that.
The point is that it can fail anywhere. took notes from that two hour lecture? Your computer crashed and you lost it? Too bad your "safe" seperate backup drive is in the dorm, or you haven't had time to connect to the server.
This is precisely the reason that I'd like the Expresscard solution which I proposed above.
Sure, I've said that. But even with 10.5 making it so easy, I'm willing to bet that most people STILL won't buy a drive for backup. Want to take that bet?
I'm waiting for the Time Machine backlash where all the B1FFs complain about having to buy another drive to use the new feature and also complaining about how much space it takes up.
Optical discs aren't that great for longevity either, though better than hard drives.
Too right.
The other problem I've found is that people back up to CD/DVD and then mistreat the backup copy by storing it badly. At least with a hard drive or network share, you can continuously monitor the backup and to condition of the drive.
You can't monitor idiots sticking the backup disks in their desk drawer and then 9 months of shlooshing the contents back and forward putting huge scratches across the disk which they then only notice when you ask them where their backup is?
The other problem I've found is that people back up to CD/DVD and then mistreat the backup copy by storing it badly. At least with a hard drive or network share, you can continuously monitor the backup and to condition of the drive.
You can't monitor idiots sticking the backup disks in their desk drawer and then 9 months of shlooshing the contents back and forward putting huge scratches across the disk which they then only notice when you ask them where their backup is?
Agreed. But, those are the very same people who won't back up in the first place.
Anyone who treats valuable data that way, deserves to lose it.
The point is that it can fail anywhere. took notes from that two hour lecture? Your computer crashed and you lost it? Too bad your "safe" seperate backup drive is in the dorm, or you haven't had time to connect to the server.
An auto backup to a seperate partition would have saved that.
Then, you can do a better backup later.
You have to be kidding.
When a police officer calls for back up, it is because he or she is in harms way. In no case would a call for back up be made for a routine traffic stop.
What is meant by back up is the complete system. Everything included. Not just text files or your favorite pics or tunes. But programs, operating systems, preferences, etc. Companies, major or minor, programmers, ad agencies, media publications, etc., do it all the time. Drive crashes, load up from the backup and you're set to go in minutes.
Everytime I walk out the door with my laptop, I take a copy of every important thing that I did since the last scheduled back up and put it on a key. Key is in my pocket and if the data is extremely sensitive I push a copy on to an external server. But they are still copies. The back up is secured much tighter. Offsite. Under lock and key. Ready to download in the god-forbidden case that I trip over my machine in the pub and have to replace the hard drive or simply retrieve any files that I may inadvertantly deleted.
Upside, if my drive crashes and I have to reinstall, it is a lot simpler and faster to get back to work.
So what is missing? Besides the fact that I am only backing up incrementally now, the chances are that I don't really have a current bootable drive. Sure it has all the old stuff, but to make it work, I would still have to install an OS before I upload from the backup.
From our understanding of Time Machine, it appears that if your drive dies, you get it replaced and you are right back to where you were. Obvious if you have Time Machine set to only work at midnight, you will have lost any input that you made since.
So, if I don't have to install a new system first, update drivers, install programs, set passwords and/or update preferences, a few minutes after hooking up the backup, I am on my way back to the pub, while a poor undergrad sweats all night reallizing the he may still have to retype his thesis because I also fell on top of his backpack when I tripped over mine. I of course could help him, but hey, I am not a student.
In closing, Apple again has done its homework. Research. Innovation. Service. Support.
You could say, there just may be no better backup to have.
SuperDuper is one of the best backup programs around. I don't recall if it's universal as yet.
I like it. It is Universal. A simple "get info" shows this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The point is that it can fail anywhere. took notes from that two hour lecture? Your computer crashed and you lost it? Too bad your "safe" seperate backup drive is in the dorm, or you haven't had time to connect to the server.
For something like that, is a separate partition even necessary? I have several pieces of software that keep the previous version of a file as backups, either in the same directory or in a pre-determined backup directory of the user's choice.
Here's what I'd like, since I'm using my MBP (on the road) far more than my desktop Mac right now:
An Expresscard/34 flash memory card.
30+ Gig. (Yeah, yeah ... expensive)
It would be perfect, though, as I could just leave it in the laptop all the time and have Time Machine backup my most important data to it. Saves me from carting around a small external HD, too.
The prices of flash memory seems to be dropping quicker than I expected, so it may not be too far away. The current price of four gig cards is what I swear I've seen of one gig cards last year. It's not a substitute for an off-system backup though, if someone steals your computer, they took the system and the backup.
Comments
I understand that the backup drive is just as likely to fail, but hopefully the odds of it and my MBP drive failing at the same time are slim.
And for me (and probably most people) to actually be diligent about backups, I want it to be as easy as possible. ("Set it and forget it.") I want to schedule backups and then let the thing run on that schedule. I don't want to have to worry about having a DVD/CD ready in the drive or running out of them. Or storing them or losing them.
If you are so disorganized that you worry about losing your backups to disk, then there isn't much else to say. But, disks are likely to last 30 years, if kept away from glove compartments, radiators, etc.
Hd's on the other hand, can go south tomorrow.
If you are so disorganized that you worry about losing your backups to disk, then there isn't much else to say. But, disks are likely to last 30 years, if kept away from glove compartments, radiators, etc.
Hd's on the other hand, can go south tomorrow.
Well, I may be a bit disorganized, but a suspect a few other people with Macs and valuable data may be disorganized also. So I don't think I'm alone in my need for something simple and unattended. And losing CDs was really the least of my worries, hence the last thing I mentioned.
It's much more of a pain to be dealing with CDs in general. I want backups to run in the background without any intervention from me. I like what I have now which is my MBP backs up wirelessly to an old PC on my network. But as I'm running low on space, I'd like to have something bigger. Plus I've heard that Backup.app can be unreliable for restores(!) so I'm looking for better software too.
So like I said, if any of you experts want to make a hardware or software suggestion, don't hesitate.....
All I'm saying, and I've now had to repeat it in several posts, so it shows how much people are really paying attention, is that it IS better than nothing.
But, that's all. Better than nothing.No matter what, we will never convince many people to go out and BUY something that they can't use for anything other than backup.
Like it or not, most people think that duplicating their files is a waste of money.
Do I agree with that? Of course not!
I have 12 drives in my system, between the ones internal to both of my machines, and the external towers. One tower also serves as the unit for my backup drives. Those are in addition to the 12 primary drives.
So, do I believe in backup? You bet! I also backup onto DVD, and soon, I hope to multi-layer Blu-Ray. I still use my old AIT I used for my video projects.
But, even with this to show my friends, they mostly still don't backup.
With large drives being the norm these days, it will be easier to convince people to simply make a partition to use for backup rather than to convince them to buy another drive.
Again, I hope for the last time?not ideal, but better than nothing.
Amazing. I agreed that copying a file to a partitioned drive was better than nothing.
Well, I may be a bit disorganized, but a suspect a few other people with Macs and valuable data may be disorganized also. So I don't think I'm alone in my need for something simple and unattended. And losing CDs was really the least of my worries, hence the last thing I mentioned.
It's much more of a pain to be dealing with CDs in general. I want backups to run in the background without any intervention from me. I like what I have now which is my MBP backs up wirelessly to an old PC on my network. But as I'm running low on space, I'd like to have something bigger. Plus I've heard that Backup.app can be unreliable for restores(!) so I'm looking for better software too.
So like I said, if any of you experts want to make a hardware or software suggestion, don't hesitate.....
The hardware is just about the same for typical amateur users. The good backup systems (translate to "reliable") cost far too much for most people.
Backups, if one expects them to actually work over the long term, use the grandfather, father, son method (or grandmother, mother daughter).
You back up everything on your drives, say, once a month. Remove that from the premises. Bzck up changed data once a week, and remove that as well.
Then back up dayly changes.
Once a month, redo the monthly backup, and once a week, the weekly backup. I do that for my startup drive, and one other.
If you are concerned with safety, that's the only way. You can use 10.5 auto backup for the daily backups, but still need the other two for ultimate security.
But, CD's and DVD's are a medium alternative, because they are so cheap.
SuperDuper is one of the best backup programs around. I don't recall if it's universal as yet.
Amazing. I agreed that copying a file to a partitioned drive was better than nothing.
Sort of, you did.
But then you negated the entire point by ending with:
"With a lot of our students using laptops, the idea of anybody walking out the door with all their curriculm only stuffed in their back packs defies logic and common sense. Certainly not somebody that you would want to guide your IT department."
The understanding is that people are simply not going to carry an external backup drive with them, and corruption is as likely to occur when in the copse, classroom, or lecture hall, as in the dorm.
Well, I may be a bit disorganized, but a suspect a few other people with Macs and valuable data may be disorganized also. So I don't think I'm alone in my need for something simple and unattended. And losing CDs was really the least of my worries, hence the last thing I mentioned.
It's much more of a pain to be dealing with CDs in general. I want backups to run in the background without any intervention from me. I like what I have now which is my MBP backs up wirelessly to an old PC on my network. But as I'm running low on space, I'd like to have something bigger. Plus I've heard that Backup.app can be unreliable for restores(!) so I'm looking for better software too.
So like I said, if any of you experts want to make a hardware or software suggestion, don't hesitate.....
JupiterOne
I agree.
I personally archive final documents to Cds or DVD's and about 4 times a year will back up whole drives to them. After verification, I then trash redundancies. Incremental backups is virtually impossible and cataloguing such would be a nightmare. Once a year, I back up to tape using my digital movie camera. Slow, but relatively inexpensive. Big problem with either is organization and retrieval. Each extremely time consuming
In any case, I think that we would all agree that up to now, backing up is a mundane process that we would rather have someone else doing. Most important, the costs of secondary drives has been historically high and thus a luxury that many of us found frivilous because we never calculated the cost of our own time restoring a corrupted system.
Now things have changed and it looks like in typical Apple fashion, Steve has developed a solution that just makes it ridiculously simple, easy, fast, unabtrusive and relatively inexpensive. As you and I can well imagine, the fact that we can restore a completely dead system with equal simplicty… is one thing, however, the idea that we will be able go back in time, restore a specific period in time and still be in the present is downright awesome. Let's hope that the many others will understand the new paradigm as I believe you do. Afterall, I think that you are better organized than some would think.
Sort of, you did.
But then you negated the entire point by ending with:
"With a lot of our students using laptops, the idea of anybody walking out the door with all their curriculm only stuffed in their back packs defies logic and common sense. Certainly not somebody that you would want to guide your IT department."
The understanding is that people are simply not going to carry an external backup drive with them, and corruption is as likely to occur when in the copse, classroom, or lecture hall, as in the dorm.
Why in the world would you carry your external backup drive with you? Leave it at your residence. Talk to your prof. Get space on their server. The idea that if you head for the pub directly after class, you don't loose your parents hard earned tuition fees because you tripped over your backpack on the way to the john.
As most IT managers would suggest, backup systems can be done on and left on site, however, the best plan is to have your main backup storage in another location, i.e., in another building.
Why in the world would you carry your external backup drive with you? Leave it at your residence. Talk to your prof. Get space on their server. The idea that if you head for the pub directly after class, you don't loose your parents hard earned tuition fees because you tripped over your backpack on the way to the john.
As most IT managers would suggest, backup systems can be done on and left on site, however, the best plan is to have your main backup storage in another location, i.e., in another building.
The point is that it can fail anywhere. took notes from that two hour lecture? Your computer crashed and you lost it? Too bad your "safe" seperate backup drive is in the dorm, or you haven't had time to connect to the server.
An auto backup to a seperate partition would have saved that.
Then, you can do a better backup later.
The point is that it can fail anywhere. took notes from that two hour lecture? Your computer crashed and you lost it? Too bad your "safe" seperate backup drive is in the dorm, or you haven't had time to connect to the server.
This is precisely the reason that I'd like the Expresscard solution which I proposed above.
Sure, I've said that. But even with 10.5 making it so easy, I'm willing to bet that most people STILL won't buy a drive for backup. Want to take that bet?
I'm waiting for the Time Machine backlash where all the B1FFs complain about having to buy another drive to use the new feature and also complaining about how much space it takes up.
Optical discs aren't that great for longevity either, though better than hard drives.
Too right.
The other problem I've found is that people back up to CD/DVD and then mistreat the backup copy by storing it badly. At least with a hard drive or network share, you can continuously monitor the backup and to condition of the drive.
You can't monitor idiots sticking the backup disks in their desk drawer and then 9 months of shlooshing the contents back and forward putting huge scratches across the disk which they then only notice when you ask them where their backup is?
This is precisely the reason that I'd like the Expresscard solution which I proposed above.
Which one of those does the Mac Book use?
Too right.
The other problem I've found is that people back up to CD/DVD and then mistreat the backup copy by storing it badly. At least with a hard drive or network share, you can continuously monitor the backup and to condition of the drive.
You can't monitor idiots sticking the backup disks in their desk drawer and then 9 months of shlooshing the contents back and forward putting huge scratches across the disk which they then only notice when you ask them where their backup is?
Agreed. But, those are the very same people who won't back up in the first place.
Anyone who treats valuable data that way, deserves to lose it.
Which one of those does the Mac Book use?
Neither. It'd work fine with a Macbook Pro, though.
Neither.
Exactly! And those are the people who won't buy an external device for it anyway.
Exactly! And those are the people who won't buy an external device for it anyway.
Well, screw 'em ... I want one.
Well, screw 'em ... I want one.
At 'em boy, that's the way!
The point is that it can fail anywhere. took notes from that two hour lecture? Your computer crashed and you lost it? Too bad your "safe" seperate backup drive is in the dorm, or you haven't had time to connect to the server.
An auto backup to a seperate partition would have saved that.
Then, you can do a better backup later.
You have to be kidding.
When a police officer calls for back up, it is because he or she is in harms way. In no case would a call for back up be made for a routine traffic stop.
What is meant by back up is the complete system. Everything included. Not just text files or your favorite pics or tunes. But programs, operating systems, preferences, etc. Companies, major or minor, programmers, ad agencies, media publications, etc., do it all the time. Drive crashes, load up from the backup and you're set to go in minutes.
Everytime I walk out the door with my laptop, I take a copy of every important thing that I did since the last scheduled back up and put it on a key. Key is in my pocket and if the data is extremely sensitive I push a copy on to an external server. But they are still copies. The back up is secured much tighter. Offsite. Under lock and key. Ready to download in the god-forbidden case that I trip over my machine in the pub and have to replace the hard drive or simply retrieve any files that I may inadvertantly deleted.
Upside, if my drive crashes and I have to reinstall, it is a lot simpler and faster to get back to work.
So what is missing? Besides the fact that I am only backing up incrementally now, the chances are that I don't really have a current bootable drive. Sure it has all the old stuff, but to make it work, I would still have to install an OS before I upload from the backup.
From our understanding of Time Machine, it appears that if your drive dies, you get it replaced and you are right back to where you were. Obvious if you have Time Machine set to only work at midnight, you will have lost any input that you made since.
So, if I don't have to install a new system first, update drivers, install programs, set passwords and/or update preferences, a few minutes after hooking up the backup, I am on my way back to the pub, while a poor undergrad sweats all night reallizing the he may still have to retype his thesis because I also fell on top of his backpack when I tripped over mine. I of course could help him, but hey, I am not a student.
In closing, Apple again has done its homework. Research. Innovation. Service. Support.
You could say, there just may be no better backup to have.
SuperDuper is one of the best backup programs around. I don't recall if it's universal as yet.
I like it. It is Universal. A simple "get info" shows this.
The point is that it can fail anywhere. took notes from that two hour lecture? Your computer crashed and you lost it? Too bad your "safe" seperate backup drive is in the dorm, or you haven't had time to connect to the server.
For something like that, is a separate partition even necessary? I have several pieces of software that keep the previous version of a file as backups, either in the same directory or in a pre-determined backup directory of the user's choice.
Here's what I'd like, since I'm using my MBP (on the road) far more than my desktop Mac right now:
An Expresscard/34 flash memory card.
30+ Gig. (Yeah, yeah ... expensive)
It would be perfect, though, as I could just leave it in the laptop all the time and have Time Machine backup my most important data to it. Saves me from carting around a small external HD, too.
The prices of flash memory seems to be dropping quicker than I expected, so it may not be too far away. The current price of four gig cards is what I swear I've seen of one gig cards last year. It's not a substitute for an off-system backup though, if someone steals your computer, they took the system and the backup.