One of the strengths of English is that it came from a society that wasn't afraid of new influences. They accepted words from the languages of their colonies, and others.
Here, in America, we have continued that practice, using many Native American words, and have absorbed many words, and expressions, from the successive waves of immigrants.
France, on the other hand, has done all is could (and still does) to keep all foreign words out of the language. One result of that was a complete lack of interest in it for international relations, or scientific work—even in France!
One of the strengths of English is that it came from a society that wasn't afraid of new influences. They accepted words from the languages of their colonies, and others.
Here, in America, we have continued that practice, using many Native American words, and have absorbed many words, and expressions, from the successive waves of immigrants.
France, on the other hand, has done all is could (and still does) to keep all foreign words out of the language. One result of that was a complete lack of interest in it for international relations, or scientific work?even in France!
It does have occasional interesting side effects. One of the many funny things I heard from our fearless leader was when he suggested that the French didn't have a word for "entrepreneur". I suppose that's what we get from a "C" student.
One of the strengths of English is that it came from a society that wasn't afraid of new influences. They accepted words from the languages of their colonies, and others.
Here, in America, we have continued that practice, using many Native American words, and have absorbed many words, and expressions, from the successive waves of immigrants.
France, on the other hand, has done all is could (and still does) to keep all foreign words out of the language. One result of that was a complete lack of interest in it for international relations, or scientific work?even in France!
Sort of true and not true at the same time.
English adopted many French words and spellings, hence the U in colour, whilst American English is stuck with spellings from Ye Olde English from the 1700s. Where American English has gone off on it's own though seems to be a recent thing using nouns as verbs. I cringe whenever an English news report heads off into Kent Brockman -age -ize land. Then again, that's mild compared some of the phrases your president comes out with.
Anyway, the point I was making wasn't whose version of English was the best (it's ours obviously - we invented the friggin thing) but that it's annoying that often you get American English as the default and not English even if your computer has it's locale set up ok. In Firefox it's yet another sign that it's a bad MacOSX citizen.
Aegis, I think that's a case of French re-influence. English picked up lots of words from the many countries that invaded/conquered bits of it, including France and the Teutonic nations, long before the Puritans were chased across the pond, and of course Rome before that.
Really, by the time folks got around to sorting out rules for modern English, America had already become independent and so wasn't under the sway of colonization.
It does have occasional interesting side effects. One of the many funny things I heard from our fearless leader was when he suggested that the French didn't have a word for "entrepreneur". I suppose that's what we get from a "C" student.
English adopted many French words and spellings, hence the U in colour, whilst American English is stuck with spellings from Ye Olde English from the 1700s. Where American English has gone off on it's own though seems to be a recent thing using nouns as verbs. I cringe whenever an English news report heads off into Kent Brockman -age -ize land. Then again, that's mild compared some of the phrases your president comes out with.
Anyway, the point I was making wasn't whose version of English was the best (it's ours obviously - we invented the friggin thing) but that it's annoying that often you get American English as the default and not English even if your computer has it's locale set up ok. In Firefox it's yet another sign that it's a bad MacOSX citizen.
Another guy bringing up Bush! Please, we're trying to forget him already.
Actually, you didn't invent it. It came over to you when you were conquered. You had no choice.
It's a matter of numbers, as I mentioned earlier. Hundreds of millions of people compared to about 65 million, unless it's less over there by now.
Aegis, I think that's a case of French re-influence. English picked up lots of words from the many countries that invaded/conquered bits of it, including France and the Teutonic nations, long before the Puritans were chased across the pond, and of course Rome before that.
Really, by the time folks got around to sorting out rules for modern English, America had already become independent and so wasn't under the sway of colonization.
And it was an American, Webster, who wrote the first widely recognized dictionary, if not THE first.
I presume you say that because Samuel Johnson left out the word 'Sausage' from his famous dictionary of 1755.
But his dictionary was not widely used amongst the population. That was still at the time when books were mostly for the wealthy, and most people didn't read. Websters was used here in the school system.
But his dictionary was not widely used amongst the population. That was still at the time when books were mostly for the wealthy, and most people didn't read. Websters was used here in the school system.
Well yes, it pre-dated printing presses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Heh. Good try.
You're right there. I always presumed that since in ye olde English text where 'color' is quite common, that 'colour' was a later change (post French revolution when many French Protestants fled France maybe) but apparently Webster changed a lot of words in his dictionary in the 1800s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Ok, you lost me there.
The 'Pink Bits' are the bits on the world map which belonged to the British Empire and thus which speak English as a first or second language. It largely correlates to the Commonwealth now although most countries no longer like to be coloured in pink. At one point that was estimated to be half a billion people. Still not as many as Chinese of course.
It's interesting that Apple includes 'Australian English' as a dialect too. I was of the impression there was no difference between that and English.
Samuel Johnson's dictionary of 1755 was written before Gutenberg's invention of the printing press, of around 1450?
Quote:
You're right there. I always presumed that since in ye olde English text where 'color' is quite common, that 'colour' was a later change (post French revolution when many French Protestants fled France maybe) but apparently Webster changed a lot of words in his dictionary in the 1800s.
A lot of American spelling has dropped letters that we didn't pronounce. I just with we could change far more.
Quote:
The 'Pink Bits' are the bits on the world map which belonged to the British Empire and thus which speak English as a first or second language. It largely correlates to the Commonwealth now although most countries no longer like to be coloured in pink. At one point that was estimated to be half a billion people. Still not as many as Chinese of course.
Ah ha! That must be from a British printed map!
Quote:
It's interesting that Apple includes 'Australian English' as a dialect too. I was of the impression there was no difference between that and English.
There are quite a few dialects, but they are mostly the same, thanks to moden travel and communications.
The 'Pink Bits' are the bits on the world map which belonged to the British Empire and thus which speak English as a first or second language. It largely correlates to the Commonwealth now although most countries no longer like to be coloured in pink. At one point that was estimated to be half a billion people. Still not as many as Chinese of course....
Well there's a billion Indians in *that* former colony that strictly would be learning British English on top of whatever their native language is (Hindi, Gujarati(?), Tamil, etc.).
Except for the call centres where you gotta speak like an American and pretend your call centre is somewhere in the USA ...Goooo Buckeyes....!!! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_State_Buckeyes)
I tells ya what though, the most important language Internationally after English is Mandarin. Then Hindi or Spanish (Spain/ South/Central American/ Mexican). Then French. Actually, screw French.
I tells ya what though, the most important language Internationally after English is Mandarin. Then Hindi or Spanish (Spain/ South/Central American/ Mexican). Then French. Actually, screw French.
French is down the list further. I believe Portuguese is after Spanish. Is Mandarin the largest language grouping in China, or might that be Cantonese?
I think we can just lump all English together, as the differences are really minor.
Have you done your normal exemplary work on this, or are you dropping you standards to what the rest of us are working at?
EDIT:
I just did the smart thing, and checked. Sigh! To think that it would have to come to this.
Mandarin is the largest group, as you said.
But, it's a bunch of "related" dilects. Some of them are barely understandable by others. So, what does that mean for the actual numbers?Being that it is China, the country with more dialects than most of the rest of the world, that' not surprising. According to the article in Wiki, there are more Mandarin speakers than those who speak English, but I'm suspicious of that. I don't believe it to be true.
Comments
Here, in America, we have continued that practice, using many Native American words, and have absorbed many words, and expressions, from the successive waves of immigrants.
France, on the other hand, has done all is could (and still does) to keep all foreign words out of the language. One result of that was a complete lack of interest in it for international relations, or scientific work—even in France!
One of the strengths of English is that it came from a society that wasn't afraid of new influences. They accepted words from the languages of their colonies, and others.
Here, in America, we have continued that practice, using many Native American words, and have absorbed many words, and expressions, from the successive waves of immigrants.
France, on the other hand, has done all is could (and still does) to keep all foreign words out of the language. One result of that was a complete lack of interest in it for international relations, or scientific work?even in France!
It does have occasional interesting side effects. One of the many funny things I heard from our fearless leader was when he suggested that the French didn't have a word for "entrepreneur". I suppose that's what we get from a "C" student.
One of the strengths of English is that it came from a society that wasn't afraid of new influences. They accepted words from the languages of their colonies, and others.
Here, in America, we have continued that practice, using many Native American words, and have absorbed many words, and expressions, from the successive waves of immigrants.
France, on the other hand, has done all is could (and still does) to keep all foreign words out of the language. One result of that was a complete lack of interest in it for international relations, or scientific work?even in France!
Sort of true and not true at the same time.
English adopted many French words and spellings, hence the U in colour, whilst American English is stuck with spellings from Ye Olde English from the 1700s. Where American English has gone off on it's own though seems to be a recent thing using nouns as verbs. I cringe whenever an English news report heads off into Kent Brockman -age -ize land. Then again, that's mild compared some of the phrases your president comes out with.
Anyway, the point I was making wasn't whose version of English was the best (it's ours obviously - we invented the friggin thing) but that it's annoying that often you get American English as the default and not English even if your computer has it's locale set up ok. In Firefox it's yet another sign that it's a bad MacOSX citizen.
In Firefox it's yet another sign that it's a bad MacOSX citizen.
I wouldn't say that. Mac OS doesn't have a British English localisation any more
Really, by the time folks got around to sorting out rules for modern English, America had already become independent and so wasn't under the sway of colonization.
It does have occasional interesting side effects. One of the many funny things I heard from our fearless leader was when he suggested that the French didn't have a word for "entrepreneur". I suppose that's what we get from a "C" student.
Ugh! I would hate to use him as an example.
Sort of true and not true at the same time.
English adopted many French words and spellings, hence the U in colour, whilst American English is stuck with spellings from Ye Olde English from the 1700s. Where American English has gone off on it's own though seems to be a recent thing using nouns as verbs. I cringe whenever an English news report heads off into Kent Brockman -age -ize land. Then again, that's mild compared some of the phrases your president comes out with.
Anyway, the point I was making wasn't whose version of English was the best (it's ours obviously - we invented the friggin thing) but that it's annoying that often you get American English as the default and not English even if your computer has it's locale set up ok. In Firefox it's yet another sign that it's a bad MacOSX citizen.
Another guy bringing up Bush! Please, we're trying to forget him already.
Actually, you didn't invent it. It came over to you when you were conquered.
It's a matter of numbers, as I mentioned earlier. Hundreds of millions of people compared to about 65 million, unless it's less over there by now.
It's so fun to write about this, isn't it?
Aegis, I think that's a case of French re-influence. English picked up lots of words from the many countries that invaded/conquered bits of it, including France and the Teutonic nations, long before the Puritans were chased across the pond, and of course Rome before that.
Really, by the time folks got around to sorting out rules for modern English, America had already become independent and so wasn't under the sway of colonization.
And it was an American, Webster, who wrote the first widely recognized dictionary, if not THE first.
unless it's less
Fewer.
And it was an American, Webster, who wrote the first widely recognized dictionary, if not THE first.
I presume you say that because Samuel Johnson left out the word 'Sausage' from his famous dictionary of 1755.
Actually, you didn't invent it. It came over to you when you were conquered.
That was 800 years earlier. You got that version.
It's a matter of numbers, as I mentioned earlier. Hundreds of millions of people compared to about 65 million, unless it's less over there by now.
Add in all the pink bits on the map.
Yeah, but he's our friend.
ROFL
I presume you say that because Samuel Johnson left out the word 'Sausage' from his famous dictionary of 1755.
But his dictionary was not widely used amongst the population. That was still at the time when books were mostly for the wealthy, and most people didn't read. Websters was used here in the school system.
That was 800 years earlier. You got that version.
Heh. Good try.
Add in all the pink bits on the map.
Ok, you lost me there.
But his dictionary was not widely used amongst the population. That was still at the time when books were mostly for the wealthy, and most people didn't read. Websters was used here in the school system.
Well yes, it pre-dated printing presses.
Heh. Good try.
You're right there. I always presumed that since in ye olde English text where 'color' is quite common, that 'colour' was a later change (post French revolution when many French Protestants fled France maybe) but apparently Webster changed a lot of words in his dictionary in the 1800s.
Ok, you lost me there.
The 'Pink Bits' are the bits on the world map which belonged to the British Empire and thus which speak English as a first or second language. It largely correlates to the Commonwealth now although most countries no longer like to be coloured in pink. At one point that was estimated to be half a billion people. Still not as many as Chinese of course.
It's interesting that Apple includes 'Australian English' as a dialect too. I was of the impression there was no difference between that and English.
Well yes, it pre-dated printing presses.
Samuel Johnson's dictionary of 1755 was written before Gutenberg's invention of the printing press, of around 1450?
You're right there. I always presumed that since in ye olde English text where 'color' is quite common, that 'colour' was a later change (post French revolution when many French Protestants fled France maybe) but apparently Webster changed a lot of words in his dictionary in the 1800s.
A lot of American spelling has dropped letters that we didn't pronounce. I just with we could change far more.
The 'Pink Bits' are the bits on the world map which belonged to the British Empire and thus which speak English as a first or second language. It largely correlates to the Commonwealth now although most countries no longer like to be coloured in pink. At one point that was estimated to be half a billion people. Still not as many as Chinese of course.
Ah ha! That must be from a British printed map!
It's interesting that Apple includes 'Australian English' as a dialect too. I was of the impression there was no difference between that and English.
There are quite a few dialects, but they are mostly the same, thanks to moden travel and communications.
Samuel Johnson's dictionary of 1755 was written before Gutenberg's invention of the printing press, of around 1450?
You've never seen Blackadder have you ?
You've never seen Blackadder have you ?
sorry, somehow, I didn't see this email.
Actually, yes, all of the versions. Some of the best stuff I've EVER seen on Tv.
The 'Pink Bits' are the bits on the world map which belonged to the British Empire and thus which speak English as a first or second language. It largely correlates to the Commonwealth now although most countries no longer like to be coloured in pink. At one point that was estimated to be half a billion people. Still not as many as Chinese of course....
Well there's a billion Indians in *that* former colony that strictly would be learning British English on top of whatever their native language is (Hindi, Gujarati(?), Tamil, etc.).
Except for the call centres where you gotta speak like an American and pretend your call centre is somewhere in the USA
I tells ya what though, the most important language Internationally after English is Mandarin. Then Hindi or Spanish (Spain/ South/Central American/ Mexican). Then French. Actually, screw French.
French is down the list further. I believe Portuguese is after Spanish. Is Mandarin the largest language grouping in China, or might that be Cantonese?
I think we can just lump all English together, as the differences are really minor.
Have you done your normal exemplary work on this, or are you dropping you standards to what the rest of us are working at?
EDIT:
I just did the smart thing, and checked. Sigh! To think that it would have to come to this.
Mandarin is the largest group, as you said.
But, it's a bunch of "related" dilects. Some of them are barely understandable by others. So, what does that mean for the actual numbers?Being that it is China, the country with more dialects than most of the rest of the world, that' not surprising. According to the article in Wiki, there are more Mandarin speakers than those who speak English, but I'm suspicious of that. I don't believe it to be true.