You do know that Apple ALREADY offers a choice to upgrade the GPU in the iMac line, for both the 20-inch and 24-inch models, right.
Not really the best example.They only offer upgrades for iMac's that already offer dedicated graphics. The 17" is the only one that uses GMA and they don't offer an upgrade which would be the equivalent of the Macbook.
As for the upgrades they are basically the same card with some slight improvements.
Obvious you are smarter than Apple. Can't for the life of me why they haven't hired you to do the job.
Well, we do know that Apple is utterly infallible, right? I mean between the Lisa, the Newton, the Mac Portable, Taligent, Cyberdog, the ROKR, choosing PowerPC over Intel... wow, batting a thousand.
Power PC was not a failure. Power PC was a successful collaboration. But time, priorities, and alliances change. Apple, IBM, and Freescale are all going in different directions. Neither of the three now serve each others needs the way they once did.
The reason we now regard the rest of your list as failure is because they did not sell very well. Currently Apple's lineup is its most profitable ever.
Power PC was not a failure. Power PC was a successful collaboration. But time, priorities, and alliances change. Apple, IBM, and Freescale are all going in different directions. Neither of the three now serve each others needs the way they once did.
The reason we now regard the rest of your list as failure is because they did not sell very well. Currently Apple's lineup is its most profitable ever.
We can nitpick, but I think the point is clear enough: no one bats a thousand, not even Apple. And corporate hubris can be the downfall of even the best companies.
Not really the best example.They only offer upgrades for iMac's that already offer dedicated graphics. The 17" is the only one that uses GMA and they don't offer an upgrade which would be the equivalent of the Macbook.
As for the upgrades they are basically the same card with some slight improvements.
That's a distinction without a difference. Since by offering good GPUs in the iMac lineup, Apple is showing that yes Virginia, good GPUs are for consumers too, not just Pros.
Its just that Apple currently only recognizes that on their consumer desktop line, and not their consumer notebook line, since you can't upgrade from GMA there. Quite strange.
Btw, on the 24" iMac, you do get the option of selecting a similar, but definitely better card (7600GT vs 7300GT). Even on the 20" iMac, the option of doubling your video RAM is non-trivial, except of course to those who have no interest in doing so.
It seems counterintuitive, but there was an article about it in Scientific Amerian about a year or two ago. Seems when we (humans) have too many choices we are more likely to feel less good about our eventual purchace. We end up with more remorse second thoughts as a result.
The people who frequent these sites would be less likely to suffer from this if Apple expanded their choices because they would probably make sense to us, but remember, we are a fraction of the buyers.
I will offer my real world example. My brother-in-law asked me to buy my sister a laptop for Christmas last year. She was only interested in windows (this was pre-BootCamp) so I went safe, I guess, and got her a Dull. I spent hours trying to figure out which system fit where in terms of processor speed, size, screen quality as well as all the BTO options. Long story short, I bought one in the price range, don't know if it was a terrible or good purchace and I felt icky for a month spending money like that on a guess.
Even had I not been a 20 year Apple geek, picking a Mac would have been so much cleaner and simpler.
It seems counterintuitive, but there was an article about it in Scientific Amerian about a year or two ago. Seems when we (humans) have too many choices we are more likely to feel less good about our eventual purchace. We end up with more remorse second thoughts as a result.
The people who frequent these sites would be less likely to suffer from this if Apple expanded their choices because they would probably make sense to us, but remember, we are a fraction of the buyers.
I will offer my real world example. My brother-in-law asked me to buy my sister a laptop for Christmas last year. She was only interested in windows (this was pre-BootCamp) so I went safe, I guess, and got her a Dull. I spent hours trying to figure out which system fit where in terms of processor speed, size, screen quality as well as all the BTO options. Long story short, I bought one in the price range, don't know if it was a terrible or good purchace and I felt icky for a month spending money like that on a guess.
Even had I not been a 20 year Apple geek, picking a Mac would have been so much cleaner and simpler.
I didnt say choice was bad. I said that it can lead to remorse and bad feelings.
I also said that it is counterintuitive.
At least consider...
No density involved. Its just that, how in the world would Apple having a couple more BTO options negatively affect your ability to just buy a stock, off-the-rack machine and have the simple buying experience you want?
I mean, one or two more drop down menus on the 'Customize your Mac' webpage at the Apple Store isn't really going to hurt you... you just scroll all the way to the bottom and click 'Add to Cart', same as always.
I joined this board just to let you know that you guys are being pwoned by TBaggins. You guys are brining in these lame comments based on spec semantics. Just because Apple is breaking records doesn't mean a company can't improve or that their paradiggim is God's philosophy. Swallow your pride and stop typing.
I want a new job and I'm a talented guy. If you own a F500 company TBaggins I'd sure like to work there with your philosophy. We'd make / I'd make you even more benjamins.
It seems counterintuitive, but there was an article about it in Scientific Amerian about a year or two ago. Seems when we (humans) have too many choices we are more likely to feel less good about our eventual purchace. We end up with more remorse second thoughts as a result.
The people who frequent these sites would be less likely to suffer from this if Apple expanded their choices because they would probably make sense to us, but remember, we are a fraction of the buyers.
...l
The problem with your argument is that article did not argue for the virtually total elimination of choices.
That's a distinction without a difference. Since by offering good GPUs in the iMac lineup, Apple is showing that yes Virginia, good GPUs are for consumers too, not just Pros.
The iMac being a desktop machine makes a big difference. As its not constrained by heat and power considerations. Apple is pretty much free to put any graphics card that can fit inside the case and price point.
Quote:
You guys are brining in these lame comments based on spec semantics. Just because Apple is breaking records doesn't mean a company can't improve or that their paradiggim is God's philosophy. Swallow your pride and stop typing.
Semantics. How is citing the facts about the most popular computer configurations and current computer sales semantics.TBaggins has yet to show any proof beyond personal opinion that MacBook sales would increase because of an optional dedicated GPU.
As far as your comment on improvement. Yes there will be improvement. The MacBook is not forever stuck with its current GMA 950.
I have to say I completely, 100% agree with TBaggins. An extra drop-down menu to add a discrete ATI or Nvidia to the MacBook wont distract anyone after a stock model. I'm willing to pay for it, so please give me the choice Apple.
I can go to Dell.com right now and configure a near-identical laptop (with 17" LCD) and just run OSx86 on it.
I feel little loyalty to a hardware company who wont give me choice for utter simplicity's sake. Its 2006 Apple....and you're competing head on with Dell like never before. Grow up.
The iMac being a desktop machine makes a big difference. As its not constrained by heat and power considerations. Apple is pretty much free to put any graphics card that can fit inside the case and price point.
And yet, somehow Apple manages to put a good GPU into their (even-thinner-than-MacBook) MacBook Pros.
So much for heat and power considerations. C'mon Teno, cats and dogs won't cohabitate unnaturally if MacBooks get a GPU upgrade option. In fact, I expect Apple to see the light on this (and other consumer-friendly practices) as their marketshare grows, in an effort to snag still more customers while economies of scale start to move in their favor. 8)
I joined this board just to let you know that you guys are being pwoned by TBaggins. You guys are brining in these lame comments based on spec semantics. Just because Apple is breaking records doesn't mean a company can't improve or that their paradiggim is God's philosophy. Swallow your pride and stop typing.
I want a new job and I'm a talented guy. If you own a F500 company TBaggins I'd sure like to work there with your philosophy. We'd make / I'd make you even more benjamins.
Thanks, S. While I agree, I think it's also fair to say that the folks who disagree also bring up some good points. I just find that, on the AI boards above all others I visit, there's a tendency to go with an 'Apple knows best' philosophy. And hey, its hard to argue with (pardon the pun) success. It makes me a bit giddy sometimes too, to think of how much better Apple is doing these days.
Thing is though, we have to learn from history. In the mid-to-late '80s, Apple was making huge profits, the stock price was doing well, and everything seemed hunky-dory. Yet the seeds of the 'dark days' of the early-mid '90s were being sown, as Apple grew fat, lazy and complacent, saying in effect to anyone that had constructive criticism to offer, "Hey, everything's going great. So I think we know what we're doing. Run along now."
Apple can't really afford to assume that everything it's doing right now is 'the way'. And they have to stay very customer-focused, or its not such a very long journey back to the 'bad old days' we all disliked so very much. \
Oh, and I don't own a Fortune 500 company, S, but I work for one thats in the Global Fortune 500 (Top 100, actually).
And yet, somehow Apple manages to put a good GPU into their (even-thinner-than-MacBook) MacBook Pros.
They aren't putting the GeForce 7600 in the MBP. Many people complain that Apple needs to move on from the X1600. ATI describes the X1600 being made especially for thin performance laptops because of its power conservation ability.
Quote:
C'mon Teno, cats and dogs won't cohabitate unnaturally if MacBooks get a GPU upgrade option. In fact, I expect Apple to see the light on this (and other consumer-friendly practices) as their marketshare grows, in an effort to snag still more customers while economies of scale start to move in their favor.
Its fine for you to wish Apple to offer the option for a discrete graphics card. I'm not even saying that Apple should not offer the option. I think its fine if they did. The funny thing is if Apple did offer the option whatever they offered people would complain that they should offer a better card.
On the other hand you have to acknowledge their is a reason why they don't offer the option. For most people it doesn't really matter. Apple would offer this for only a couple of people who actually cared. Fewer options also increases production efficiency and lowers the cost of needed components.
I just find that, on the AI boards above all others I visit, there's a tendency to go with an 'Apple knows best' philosophy.
I find it easy to accuse people of Apple fanboyism. But you cannot ignore the facts of business and profit.
Its easy to desire Apple to do some certain thing that makes life better for you. But Apple is designing its computers for millions of people around the world. Just because one person wants Apple to do something does not mean it will be particularly beneficial from a business stand point. Just because Dell does something does not mean it will benefit Apple to do the same.
Quote:
Yet the seeds of the 'dark days' of the early-mid '90s were being sown, as Apple grew fat, lazy and complacent, saying in effect to anyone that had constructive criticism to offer, "Hey, everything's going great. So I think we know what we're doing. Run along now."
Look at the fact that Apple just transitioned from Power PC to Intel.
That monumental event in and of itself shows that the Apple of 2006 is willing to radically change and adjust.
Comments
You do know that Apple ALREADY offers a choice to upgrade the GPU in the iMac line, for both the 20-inch and 24-inch models, right.
Not really the best example.They only offer upgrades for iMac's that already offer dedicated graphics. The 17" is the only one that uses GMA and they don't offer an upgrade which would be the equivalent of the Macbook.
As for the upgrades they are basically the same card with some slight improvements.
The Zune is brown!!!11! Like poo!!!1!
Yes brown. If Apple released a brown version it would be dubbed iPoo.
Exactly! If they're doing this then why can't Apple figure out how to do it?
Obvious you are smarter than Apple. Can't for the life of me understand why they haven't hired you to do the job.
Obvious you are smarter than Apple. Can't for the life of me why they haven't hired you to do the job.
Well, we do know that Apple is utterly infallible, right? I mean between the Lisa, the Newton, the Mac Portable, Taligent, Cyberdog, the ROKR, choosing PowerPC over Intel... wow, batting a thousand.
I say this as a long-time Apple fan.
.
The reason we now regard the rest of your list as failure is because they did not sell very well. Currently Apple's lineup is its most profitable ever.
Power PC was not a failure. Power PC was a successful collaboration. But time, priorities, and alliances change. Apple, IBM, and Freescale are all going in different directions. Neither of the three now serve each others needs the way they once did.
The reason we now regard the rest of your list as failure is because they did not sell very well. Currently Apple's lineup is its most profitable ever.
We can nitpick, but I think the point is clear enough: no one bats a thousand, not even Apple. And corporate hubris can be the downfall of even the best companies.
.
Not really the best example.They only offer upgrades for iMac's that already offer dedicated graphics. The 17" is the only one that uses GMA and they don't offer an upgrade which would be the equivalent of the Macbook.
As for the upgrades they are basically the same card with some slight improvements.
That's a distinction without a difference. Since by offering good GPUs in the iMac lineup, Apple is showing that yes Virginia, good GPUs are for consumers too, not just Pros.
Its just that Apple currently only recognizes that on their consumer desktop line, and not their consumer notebook line, since you can't upgrade from GMA there. Quite strange.
Btw, on the 24" iMac, you do get the option of selecting a similar, but definitely better card (7600GT vs 7300GT). Even on the 20" iMac, the option of doubling your video RAM is non-trivial, except of course to those who have no interest in doing so.
.
It seems counterintuitive, but there was an article about it in Scientific Amerian about a year or two ago. Seems when we (humans) have too many choices we are more likely to feel less good about our eventual purchace. We end up with more remorse second thoughts as a result.
The people who frequent these sites would be less likely to suffer from this if Apple expanded their choices because they would probably make sense to us, but remember, we are a fraction of the buyers.
I will offer my real world example. My brother-in-law asked me to buy my sister a laptop for Christmas last year. She was only interested in windows (this was pre-BootCamp) so I went safe, I guess, and got her a Dull. I spent hours trying to figure out which system fit where in terms of processor speed, size, screen quality as well as all the BTO options. Long story short, I bought one in the price range, don't know if it was a terrible or good purchace and I felt icky for a month spending money like that on a guess.
Even had I not been a 20 year Apple geek, picking a Mac would have been so much cleaner and simpler.
My .02$
PS sis hates the dell
There is a downside to choice.
It seems counterintuitive, but there was an article about it in Scientific Amerian about a year or two ago. Seems when we (humans) have too many choices we are more likely to feel less good about our eventual purchace. We end up with more remorse second thoughts as a result.
The people who frequent these sites would be less likely to suffer from this if Apple expanded their choices because they would probably make sense to us, but remember, we are a fraction of the buyers.
I will offer my real world example. My brother-in-law asked me to buy my sister a laptop for Christmas last year. She was only interested in windows (this was pre-BootCamp) so I went safe, I guess, and got her a Dull. I spent hours trying to figure out which system fit where in terms of processor speed, size, screen quality as well as all the BTO options. Long story short, I bought one in the price range, don't know if it was a terrible or good purchace and I felt icky for a month spending money like that on a guess.
Even had I not been a 20 year Apple geek, picking a Mac would have been so much cleaner and simpler.
My .02$
PS sis hates the dell
Choice is bad?!?
Oh, we are definitely drinking the Kool-Aid now.
.
Choice is bad?!?
Oh, we are definitely drinking the Kool-Aid now.
.
Don't be dense.
I didnt say choice was bad. I said that it can lead to remorse and bad feelings.
I also said that it is counterintuitive.
At least consider...
Don't be dense.
I didnt say choice was bad. I said that it can lead to remorse and bad feelings.
I also said that it is counterintuitive.
At least consider...
No density involved. Its just that, how in the world would Apple having a couple more BTO options negatively affect your ability to just buy a stock, off-the-rack machine and have the simple buying experience you want?
I mean, one or two more drop down menus on the 'Customize your Mac' webpage at the Apple Store isn't really going to hurt you... you just scroll all the way to the bottom and click 'Add to Cart', same as always.
.
I want a new job and I'm a talented guy. If you own a F500 company TBaggins I'd sure like to work there with your philosophy. We'd make / I'd make you even more benjamins.
There is a downside to choice.
It seems counterintuitive, but there was an article about it in Scientific Amerian about a year or two ago. Seems when we (humans) have too many choices we are more likely to feel less good about our eventual purchace. We end up with more remorse second thoughts as a result.
The people who frequent these sites would be less likely to suffer from this if Apple expanded their choices because they would probably make sense to us, but remember, we are a fraction of the buyers.
...l
The problem with your argument is that article did not argue for the virtually total elimination of choices.
That's a distinction without a difference. Since by offering good GPUs in the iMac lineup, Apple is showing that yes Virginia, good GPUs are for consumers too, not just Pros.
The iMac being a desktop machine makes a big difference. As its not constrained by heat and power considerations. Apple is pretty much free to put any graphics card that can fit inside the case and price point.
You guys are brining in these lame comments based on spec semantics. Just because Apple is breaking records doesn't mean a company can't improve or that their paradiggim is God's philosophy. Swallow your pride and stop typing.
Semantics. How is citing the facts about the most popular computer configurations and current computer sales semantics.TBaggins has yet to show any proof beyond personal opinion that MacBook sales would increase because of an optional dedicated GPU.
As far as your comment on improvement. Yes there will be improvement. The MacBook is not forever stuck with its current GMA 950.
I can go to Dell.com right now and configure a near-identical laptop (with 17" LCD) and just run OSx86 on it.
I feel little loyalty to a hardware company who wont give me choice for utter simplicity's sake. Its 2006 Apple....and you're competing head on with Dell like never before. Grow up.
The iMac being a desktop machine makes a big difference. As its not constrained by heat and power considerations. Apple is pretty much free to put any graphics card that can fit inside the case and price point.
And yet, somehow Apple manages to put a good GPU into their (even-thinner-than-MacBook) MacBook Pros.
So much for heat and power considerations. C'mon Teno, cats and dogs won't cohabitate unnaturally if MacBooks get a GPU upgrade option. In fact, I expect Apple to see the light on this (and other consumer-friendly practices) as their marketshare grows, in an effort to snag still more customers while economies of scale start to move in their favor. 8)
.
I joined this board just to let you know that you guys are being pwoned by TBaggins. You guys are brining in these lame comments based on spec semantics. Just because Apple is breaking records doesn't mean a company can't improve or that their paradiggim is God's philosophy. Swallow your pride and stop typing.
I want a new job and I'm a talented guy. If you own a F500 company TBaggins I'd sure like to work there with your philosophy. We'd make / I'd make you even more benjamins.
Thanks, S. While I agree, I think it's also fair to say that the folks who disagree also bring up some good points. I just find that, on the AI boards above all others I visit, there's a tendency to go with an 'Apple knows best' philosophy. And hey, its hard to argue with (pardon the pun) success. It makes me a bit giddy sometimes too, to think of how much better Apple is doing these days.
Thing is though, we have to learn from history. In the mid-to-late '80s, Apple was making huge profits, the stock price was doing well, and everything seemed hunky-dory. Yet the seeds of the 'dark days' of the early-mid '90s were being sown, as Apple grew fat, lazy and complacent, saying in effect to anyone that had constructive criticism to offer, "Hey, everything's going great. So I think we know what we're doing. Run along now."
Apple can't really afford to assume that everything it's doing right now is 'the way'. And they have to stay very customer-focused, or its not such a very long journey back to the 'bad old days' we all disliked so very much.
Oh, and I don't own a Fortune 500 company, S, but I work for one thats in the Global Fortune 500 (Top 100, actually).
.
And yet, somehow Apple manages to put a good GPU into their (even-thinner-than-MacBook) MacBook Pros.
They aren't putting the GeForce 7600 in the MBP. Many people complain that Apple needs to move on from the X1600. ATI describes the X1600 being made especially for thin performance laptops because of its power conservation ability.
C'mon Teno, cats and dogs won't cohabitate unnaturally if MacBooks get a GPU upgrade option. In fact, I expect Apple to see the light on this (and other consumer-friendly practices) as their marketshare grows, in an effort to snag still more customers while economies of scale start to move in their favor.
Its fine for you to wish Apple to offer the option for a discrete graphics card. I'm not even saying that Apple should not offer the option. I think its fine if they did. The funny thing is if Apple did offer the option whatever they offered people would complain that they should offer a better card.
On the other hand you have to acknowledge their is a reason why they don't offer the option. For most people it doesn't really matter. Apple would offer this for only a couple of people who actually cared. Fewer options also increases production efficiency and lowers the cost of needed components.
I just find that, on the AI boards above all others I visit, there's a tendency to go with an 'Apple knows best' philosophy.
I find it easy to accuse people of Apple fanboyism. But you cannot ignore the facts of business and profit.
Its easy to desire Apple to do some certain thing that makes life better for you. But Apple is designing its computers for millions of people around the world. Just because one person wants Apple to do something does not mean it will be particularly beneficial from a business stand point. Just because Dell does something does not mean it will benefit Apple to do the same.
Yet the seeds of the 'dark days' of the early-mid '90s were being sown, as Apple grew fat, lazy and complacent, saying in effect to anyone that had constructive criticism to offer, "Hey, everything's going great. So I think we know what we're doing. Run along now."
Look at the fact that Apple just transitioned from Power PC to Intel.
That monumental event in and of itself shows that the Apple of 2006 is willing to radically change and adjust.