Microsoft: We'll eventually 'be the leader' in digital media players

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  • Reply 41 of 107
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LocalMotion


    ok let's see then... in the same Top Consumer Electronics list on Amazon where Zune is #68, the iPod has 5 of the top 10 spots.



    so it makes perfect sense to compare the 30gb iPod Video at #2 with the 30gb Zune at #68



    even the Creative Zen 30gb is #21



    And don't forget that the numbers only reflect the Black Zune. I don't even think the other two colors (doodoo brown and squirt white) have even made it into the Top 100, while even older generation iPods are mopping the floor with pretty much every other portable music player despite the the super aggressive sale prices these companies are doing for the holidays.
  • Reply 42 of 107
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,903member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hugodrax


    I do see Microsoft being the #1 music device seller. They will keep at it until they sell.



    They did this with windows, office applications,the xbox,etc..





    Well, that's only partially true.



    The Sony PS2 has sold 112 million units compared to the Xbox's 24-25 million units, according to wikipedia.



    I too worry about history repeating itself, but Apple commands a massive advantage to say the least...much moreso than they did with the original personal computer revolution. They absolutely own the market. They have not just created a breakthrough device that is selling like crazy, they have created an entire sub-economy for that device. iPod has become a household name. Podcasting has become an industry standard term for the radio medium as well.



    In other words, M$ has a LONG way to go. While their product does have some interesting features, it's nothing that will cause people to choose their product over Apple's enmasse.



    I may be in the minority, but I actually think M$ might be in trouble in the long term. Apple's marketshare is growing, and Vista has been a disaster for some time. The Playstation 3 will outsell the Xbox 360 at least 5 to 1, just as the PS2 did. How many more "upgrades" of Windows and Office can they sell? Can those two products go on being the profit centers for 10, 20 years? In my opinion M$ has suffered from a serious case of "mission creep." They should never have gotten into the hardware business. Had they stuck to software, they'd be even more profitable than they are....though that is just an opinion, of course.
  • Reply 43 of 107
    I liken the Zune to the first-generation Xbox. The Xbox was the first console to have a hard drive and a network port as standard. In all other respects, it was average at best, but the hard drive and the network port enabled Xbox Live.



    I don't care what any of you think about Microsoft, Xbox Live is one of the best products to come out of Microsoft... well, ever. And it's hugely popular, with over 5 million subscribers worldwide.



    The Zune is an average portable media player... except it has Wi-Fi. If Microsoft can build something around the Wi-Fi aspect of it, a Zune Live if you will, I believe Microsoft could very well claw market share away from Apple. I have no doubt that's their plan.
  • Reply 44 of 107
    "We think that's actually pretty awesome" - the words of a vice president...can you imagine? I wouldn't put much faith into a company that has vice presidents that can't express themselves with a richer vocabulary.



    The day MS is the leader in digital media players is the day Apple is leader in personal computing.
  • Reply 45 of 107
    The other thing worthy of noting is that if Apple does release this futuristic widescreen, touch-screen iPod in January (don't know if they will or not), that will put them leaps and bounds ahead of all their competition. If it's taking Apple this long to develop it, I don't see other companies catching up very quickly.



    The current 5G has barely been updated at all. Microsoft is competing with a very old player right now.
  • Reply 46 of 107
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by markiv


    A few years back Microsoft said they would not be entering an already saturated market of mp3 player and now we have them selling sh*t colored ipod-clones. Only if we could trust Microsoft and what they said, I bet most of the Microsoft Software engineers own iPods and use a Linux box or a mac at their home and not WinBlows. Microsoft's DRM is more restricting than Apple's.





    I wonder when they are going to oust Steve Ballmer. Gates is already on his way out. I guess Ballmer will drag the stock to the point of no return. It still hasn't gone past 30 and their announcements for Vista and Zune haven't really done anything for the stock.



    I smell selloff.
  • Reply 47 of 107
    Ballmer's MS is just so, so poor in everything they do, and so misguided in all the decisions they make.



    Bottom line: people don't like Microsoft. People who buy Windows very rarely go out looking for a computer because it has Windows and other MS products on it. At one time, people sought MS, now, no one does. Despite the fact that MS tries hard to divorce this image from it's consumer products, the xBox and the Zune, so far they really haven't have any luck doing so.



    Ballmer and his grunts have released a lot of manifestos and ultimatums to the press. I'm not sure any of these have had positive affect, and his position as CEO is entirely a testament to him being the luckiest man alive. He is cancer to MS, and until they get rid of him, the Zune will fail. I'm not sure it will succeed even with new people at the helm, but it definitely has a better chance.
  • Reply 48 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kim kap sol


    "We think that's actually pretty awesome" - the words of a vice president...can you imagine? I wouldn't put much faith into a company that has vice presidents that can't express themselves with a richer vocabulary.



    The day MS is the leader in digital media players is the day Apple is leader in personal computing.



    Um, how about a CEO who says "Insanely Great?"



    Marketese doesn't necessarily reflect a person. Plus, companies like MS have dozens -- if not hundreds -- of VPs.
  • Reply 49 of 107
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel


    Ballmer's MS is just so, so poor in everything they do, and so misguided in all the decisions they make.



    Bottom line: people don't like Microsoft. People who buy Windows very rarely go out looking for a computer because it has Windows and other MS products on it. At one time, this was the case, now, it is not. Despite the fact that MS tries hard to divorce this image from it's consumer products, the xBox and the Zune, so far they really haven't have any luck doing so.



    Ballmer and his grunts have released a lot of manifestos and ultimatums to the press. I'm not sure any of these have had positive affect, and his position as CEO is entirely a testament to him being the luckiest man alive. He is cancer to MS, and until they get rid of him, the Zune will fail. I'm not sure it will succeed even with new people at the helm, but it definitely has a better chance.



    I think Bill Gates just wanted something to sell and give away to Microsoft employees and families so that they weren't embarrassed by the iPod.



    I wonder just how many Zunes will be returned after the wrapping is taken off? If I got a Zune, I would just return it and get something else. No offense Santa....
  • Reply 50 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drblank


    I think Bill Gates just wanted something to sell and give away to Microsoft employees and families so that they weren't embarrassed by the iPod.





    This makes me wonder... are MS employees alowed to use iPods, or be seen with them, while at work?
  • Reply 51 of 107
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel


    Um, how about a CEO who says "Insanely Great?"



    Marketese doesn't necessarily reflect a person. Plus, companies like MS have dozens -- if not hundreds -- of VPs.





    Which is why the stock hasn't gone past 30 in a LONG time, they are losing money on the Zune and XBox and vista still uses the same POS kernel. Microsoft is overbloated with VPs.



    I would love to see Steve Ballmer dance around like a monkey, shouting and shouting "We screwed up, we screwed up, we screwed up..........." as Apple's marketshare equals Microsoft in products being sold. Believe it or not, it actually may happen WAY before the Zune outsells the iPod.
  • Reply 52 of 107
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,592member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001


    I may be in the minority, but I actually think M$ might be in trouble in the long term. Apple's marketshare is growing, and Vista has been a disaster for some time. The Playstation 3 will outsell the Xbox 360 at least 5 to 1, just as the PS2 did. How many more "upgrades" of Windows and Office can they sell? Can those two products go on being the profit centers for 10, 20 years? In my opinion M$ has suffered from a serious case of "mission creep." They should never have gotten into the hardware business. Had they stuck to software, they'd be even more profitable than they are....though that is just an opinion, of course.



    I agree with you that MS is in long term trouble. They can't break out beyond Windows and Office. And having them stick with software isn't that great a strategy either because, because, . . . because they suck at making software.



    Microsoft's forte is not in the design or manufacture of hardware or software. Their expertise is in establishing market dominance through shrewd contracting and abusive and coercive monopolistic behaviour. PC-DOS dominated the market because Gates was able to outmaneuver IBM into signing a contract that turned out to be ridiculously advantageous for MS. MS didn't even make the original DOS, Gates bought it from someone else! How's that for software expertise eh? Then the subsequent growth of DOS/Windows and Office relied mainly on using their monopoly position to force vendors into abusive and illegal (as courts determined later) supply contracts.



    Their problem now is that the courts and the feds are onto their behaviour and are watching them closely to make sure they don't engage in more coercive monopolistic behaviour. On top of that, the new products they're banking on, XBox and Zune, aren't really tied to the Windows/Office monopoly so they can't rely on that to push Xbox and Zune.



    Now they actually have to come out with a product that will sell based on quality and customer appeal. That is an undiscovered country for Microsoft. Imagine that-- build a product that consumers will actually want to buy.



    Oh an by the way, does Ballmer have any other qualification to be Microsoft CEO other than "Bill's college buddy"? He has been a disaster.
  • Reply 53 of 107
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraboy


    I agree with you that MS is in long term trouble. They can't break out beyond Windows and Office. And having them stick with software isn't that great a strategy either because, because, . . . because they suck at making software.



    Microsoft's forte is not in the design or manufacture of hardware or software. Their expertise is in establishing market dominance through shrewd contracting and abusive and coercive monopolistic behaviour. PC-DOS dominated the market because Gates was able to outmaneuver IBM into signing a contract that turned out to be ridiculously advantageous for MS. MS didn't even make the original DOS, Gates bought it from someone else! How's that for software expertise eh? Then the subsequent growth of DOS/Windows and Office relied mainly on using their monopoly position to force vendors into abusive and illegal (as courts determined later) supply contracts.



    Their problem now is that the courts and the feds are onto their behaviour and are watching them closely to make sure they don't engage in more coercive monopolistic behaviour. On top of that, the new products they're banking on, XBox and Zune, aren't really tied to the Windows/Office monopoly so they can't rely on that to push Xbox and Zune.



    Now they actually have to come out with a product that will sell based on quality and customer appeal. That is an undiscovered country for Microsoft. Imagine that-- build a product that consumers will actually want to buy.



    Oh an by the way, does Ballmer have any other qualification to be Microsoft CEO other than "Bill's college buddy"? He has been a disaster.



    tundraboy gets the "I couldn't have said it better" Award. Way to go!
  • Reply 54 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drblank


    Which is why the stock hasn't gone past 30 in a LONG time, they are losing money on the Zune and XBox and vista still uses the same POS kernel. Microsoft is overbloated with VPs.



    I would love to see Steve Ballmer dance around like a monkey, shouting and shouting "We screwed up, we screwed up, we screwed up..........." as Apple's marketshare equals Microsoft in products being sold. Believe it or not, it actually may happen WAY before the Zune outsells the iPod.





    Yeah, but he will actually dance around saying SQUIRTING, SQUIRTING, SQUIRTING, GIVE IT UP FOR ME!!!!!!!!! SQUIRTING, SQUIRTING, SQUIRTING!!!!!



    And no he doesn't have any other qualification to be CEO than Bill Gate's College Buddy. His resume looks worse than that fake one that was being sent around for Bush's qualifications.



    LOL at the poster who said the ZUNE comes in squirt white.



    Also, it takes creativity to come up with a phrase like Insanely Great. Any MTV idiot can say pretty awesome.



    The reason they think it is pretty awesome that they will only sell 1 million is that they will only lose 50 million or so dollars.
  • Reply 55 of 107
    wallywally Posts: 211member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001


    I may be in the minority, but I actually think M$ might be in trouble in the long term. Apple's marketshare is growing, and Vista has been a disaster for some time. The Playstation 3 will outsell the Xbox 360 at least 5 to 1, just as the PS2 did. How many more "upgrades" of Windows and Office can they sell? Can those two products go on being the profit centers for 10, 20 years? In my opinion M$ has suffered from a serious case of "mission creep." They should never have gotten into the hardware business. Had they stuck to software, they'd be even more profitable than they are....though that is just an opinion, of course.



    I don't think you're in the minority at all....



    What I find so interesting is how Microsoft always said "the money's in the software" while IBM would say "the money's in the hardware", when the whole time Apple was saying "the money's in BOTH the hardware and software"....



    Look at Microsoft now. Trying to get into hardware (IBM even taking a "stab" at software), and none of them seem to succeed at what they really never believed to be cash cows.
  • Reply 56 of 107
    slewisslewis Posts: 2,080member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by markiv


    A few years back Microsoft said they would not be entering an already saturated market of mp3 player and now we have them selling sh*t colored ipod-clones. Only if we could trust Microsoft and what they said, I bet most of the Microsoft Software engineers own iPods and use a Linux box or a mac at their home and not WinBlows. Microsoft's DRM is more restricting than Apple's.



    J Allard uses a Powermac G5 and has 9 iPods. He also led development on the Zune and I assume he uses a Winbox somewhere... I think it might have been mentioned in the same article that he hardly ever uses PCs....
  • Reply 57 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackbird_1.0


    I hope history doesn't repeat itself.



    It's a bit different this time. When MS went crazy with Windows the Macs were far more costly than the PCs on the market. The iPod doesn't suffer from that problem and already has a well established lineup that Apple continuously improves.



    Apple could lose it, but I think they will continue to dominate if they don't rest on their laurels and continue to deliver well-priced iPods.
  • Reply 58 of 107
    The only way microsoft will EVER make any profit on this, is if they can improve on their current position with the Zune. It's safe to say that they won't be improving on their current device. Products only get weaker with time. Their only hope is to fix all the bugs within the current system, some which run very deep, before they can stand a chance of improving with their next device. What are the odds of MS being able to fix these problems and get their act together? I think it's very slim given the company's history.



    So, realistically, how long will MS stay in a market they're losing money in? I know they're MS, but realistically, how long can they stay? They said they're in it for the long haul, and I think it will be a very very long and dark haul. Don't the investors in this company have any say in the decisions? Or has ballmer actually convinced them it's a wise move? I guess he has no qualms about lying to the investors. He did after all say they weren't losing any money on the units, when it's a well known fact they're losting 50 bucks on each device.
  • Reply 59 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wally


    I don't think you're in the minority at all....



    What I find so interesting is how Microsoft always said "the money's in the software" while IBM would say "the money's in the hardware", when the whole time Apple was saying "the money's in BOTH the hardware and software"....



    Look at Microsoft now. Trying to get into hardware (IBM even taking a "stab" at software), and none of them seem to succeed at what they really never believed to be cash cows.



    Not to be devil's advocate, but at work, we have an IBM iSeries running OS/400. The hardware and software are EXTREMELY powerful and the OS is stable as all hell. Of course it only has business applications but still. IBM is still a fantastic company who is (at last) settling for it's niche market: businesses. Thus I don't think it's fair to pick on them for their hardware/software selections because the consumers no longer see the best of what they make unless they exist at work.



    Microsoft, on the other hand, has never aimed at businesses. They've always aimed to be the most-adopted. Period. It's unfortunate that they dominate the business sector while not really caring for them. They're even using businesses as their Vista test-subjects. That's rude.



    I agree with those saying that Microsoft needs new leadership. It begins with a CEO but also will eventually require an entire uprooting of MS's command line (pun intended). They need to streamline: have a strictly Windows and a strictly Office segment, held together only by the name "Microsoft." They need to cut the fat out of Vista. Abandon Win95, 98, XP support. Start from the ground up, just as Mac OS X did. Once they have a stable, efficient and slick operating system, they should seriously consider writing an OS that will run on the darwin kernel. Macs are here to stay and MS needs to do something to appeal to the market. Of course, though, that would require an OS that would actually compete with OS X instead of mimic it.



    -Clive
  • Reply 60 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel


    Um, how about a CEO who says "Insanely Great?"



    Marketese doesn't necessarily reflect a person. Plus, companies like MS have dozens -- if not hundreds -- of VPs.



    Marketese.



    It reflects poorly on Jobs and Apple. At the VP level, you'd expect them to use something other than "Insanely Great" or "pretty awesome" unless they were actual salesmen...and even as a salesmen, I wouldn't be too convinced by "I think this is pretty awesome" or "Boom! just like that".
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