I think Apple has no choice but to reply in kind to vista's eye candy. And they've had some time to work on that reply.
Disappointed? What else is it going to be? Vista's 'big thing' is the eye candy. It's the most obvious way to slap M$ back down. M$ cheesy copys on the cardboardy foundations of xp and Apple bury them with an elegant theme that builds on an easier to use OS.
We've seen example's of the new interface, I believe in iPhoto, Aperture and the X blurb page.
It's definitely, in my mind, one ofthe key features hiding in the background.
I like the look of what I've seen of Illuminous so far. More sophisticated, mature and grown up.
I think Apple has no choice but to reply in kind to vista's eye candy. And they've had some time to work on that reply.
Disappointed? What else is it going to be? Vista's 'big thing' is the eye candy. It's the most obvious way to slap M$ back down. M$ cheesy copys on the cardboardy foundations of xp and Apple bury them with an elegant theme that builds on an easier to use OS.
We've seen example's of the new interface, I believe in iPhoto, Aperture and the X blurb page.
It's definitely, in my mind, one ofthe key features hiding in the background.
I like the look of what I've seen of Illuminous so far. More sophisticated, mature and grown up.
We'll see. Only 3 weeks to go...
Lemon Bon Bon 8)
If Apple really wants to pull this off, it must be applied system-wide.
It's clear in my mind that there is zero communication between the application teams. They do whatever they feel like doing when it comes to the interface and there's nobody around to tell them "no, you can't do that because it would be inconsistent with the other apps' way of doing things". None of them (pretty much) use the native OS UI elements...almost every UI element in Apple's apps is custom made.
There is no GUI Big Boss at Apple.
I'm very scared to see what frankensteinesque experience a new theme would bring. If Illuminous does exist (and I doubt it does), the app teams probably haven't heard of it either and will have to undergo a massive app face lift to abide to new theme guidelines or suffer the same fate as Activity Monitor, Disk Utility, and other apps that still retain the 10.3 look'n'feel instead of sporting the 10.4 unified look.
What'll happen when iWork and iLife '07 are released to work on 10.4? They'll definitely have the 10.4 look'n'feel while 3-4 months later, Leopard will drop with a new look that'll make iLife and iWork look like complete crap.
I've given up fighting this though. Jobs should be ashamed of himself for letting the GUI guidelines be ignored. The thing I want most from 10.5 is a GUI clean up. Bring all the apps to a single look'n'feel.
Judging from the 10.5 screenshots, we've got apps that still look like they're coming from the 10.1 era (TextEdit), the 10.2-10.3 era (Address Book, Activity Monitor, Disk Utility, Font Book, Preview).
I'd love to see brushed-metal completely eradicated...nobody followed the brushed-metal guidelines anyways...nobody. Font Book and Automator win the prize for Ugliest Brushed-Metal Look...with it's ridiculously huge borders. Address Book wins second prize. Safari has no borders...so much for guidelines. The Finder gets it right when it comes to guidelines but let's face it...brushed-metal looks out of place now.
It's sad that Apple has allowed such things to happen...now Apple will have to support all of this garbage for legacy purposes...so that old apps don't break or look uglier than they are now. And, of course, some developers actually love the brushed-metal look and some users will demand it...brushed-metal will be around for years to come thanks to a boneheaded move at Apple in 10.2.
In conclusion, I have no conclusion...the situation just plain sucks and Illuminous would cause a lot of problems.
Also, third party devs will need advanced warning to support a totally new UI. If such a UI exists, not showing it at WWDC was inexcusable. You can't just flip a switch and use a totally new theme, since so much of an app's interface is custom drawn!
BTW, for the record, Disk Utility is not using an out of date UI... Aqua windows can be unified or not, at the discretion of the developer. Having a non-unified toolbar does not mean the UI is out of date. Or is that not what you meant?
Er... WWDC... closed doors... NDAs... maybe the devs are actually *gasp* respecting them this time around? Of course, I assume you meant the *public* WWDC keynote... I think that's what that "Top Secret" was for. As for custom widgets - yup, you betcha they are kicking around in a lot of apps. As long as the spacing is kept 'standard' (whatever that means any more) in the new theme, however, and a new set of widget images are available for devs to splice into their own apps, it should be a fast conversion for those who use Cocoa, at least. They'll get most of it 'for free', unless they went whole hog on a custom UI.
kks, I agree there's a mish-mash of UI elements right now, and it could be a lot better - but look at the history over the last few years. The apps have become working labs for new UI ideas that are then percolated down to the OS level for everyone to use. This is the reverse of what Apple used to do, which was "Here's a whole new set of widgets, now go use them!" and generally, said widgets were ignored. Now each app team comes up with widgets designed for their specific need, and the useful pieces get propagated. Remember, iTunes used to be the *only* app with the oval search box. Now most of them have it. It was a single-app idea that proved to be really useful, so it spread.
If you want to see what will be in 10.5's default toolkit of widgets, look at what is now common among apps from Apple. I think the 'Aperture/Front Row' look, smoked translucent inspectors, et al, will become common.
Er... WWDC... closed doors... NDAs... maybe the devs are actually *gasp* respecting them this time around? Of course, I assume you meant the *public* WWDC keynote...
Actually, I meant the whole of WWDC. (I don't think mentioning something that wasn't in the sessions is falling afoul of "The content of this session is confidential"...)
You're right that non-custom widgets would get the new look for free... I'm just thinking about things like replicating the sources list (done by many apps, but there's no standard widget for it), or those glossy Aqua bars (of which I have a whole class devoted to drawing those in different colours). Yes, no individual thing is a mountain of work, but the more radical the change to the UI the more time devs need to test things. If the UI changes completely, then it brings in a whole new level of complexity where you have to detect which OS is running (at runtime) and present the appropriate resources. It's not something that Apple could slip in at the last moment. If you recall, even Aqua was shown off well in advance, to give people time to prepare.
If the UI changes completely, then it brings in a whole new level of complexity where you have to detect which OS is running (at runtime) and present the appropriate resources. It's not something that Apple could slip in at the last moment. If you recall, even Aqua was shown off well in advance, to give people time to prepare.
It's true, but you can be sure that OS 9 --> Aqua was a much bigger change than Aqua --> Illuminous (or whatever the refreshed UI is called).
e.g. here's my personal, purely speculative guesses:
- dynamic lighting courtesy of CoreAnimation, for much more realistic and dramatic light sources to create shine and shadows. Adds considerable depth and presence to the screen.
- many more transitional animations, e.g. for opening and closing windows
- window styles a mix of Unified + Dark Metal (as seen in iTunes 7), with palettes all in the dark transparent HUD style; introduction of pie-chart menus for contextual menus; greater use of simplified capsule-style buttons, as used in Mail & Safari
- Dock gains an slightly isometric, 3D perspective, with new window minimization styles and features (e.g. different ways to organize and preview minimized windows in the Dock); also gains the greater flexibility in screen edge placement and how it pops up
- much improved, rather Quicksilver-like Spotlight UI, and a Finder with improved browsing capabilities (hopefully with a plug-in API, but who knows)
- zoom widget evolves to something more interesting and useful, e.g. a full-screen mode for apps (with an API developers can use)
I think most of the above improvements, f'instance, can be accomplished without badly upsetting the balance of many Aqua apps.
Hobbes: point 1 and 2: god no! A GUI should be helping you with doing whatever you want to do. No more animations! No dynamic lighting! Not eyecandy that gets in your way. I want more productivity! Better open/save dialogues, a better Finder.
Dock: why? Would it be a better Dock with an isometric 3d view? Nope.
Hobbes: point 1 and 2: god no! A GUI should be helping you with doing whatever you want to do. No more animations! No dynamic lighting! Not eyecandy that gets in your way. I want more productivity! Better open/save dialogues, a better Finder.
Dock: why? Would it be a better Dock with an isometric 3d view? Nope.
Ideally: eye-candy that serves an underlying metaphor or purpose, a la Time Machine, or the scale/genie minimization effect.
Otherwise: eye-candy that isn't strictly necessary but doesn't much get in your way, e.g. the ripple effects in Dashboard.
But if you think there aren't going to be more animation and dynamic effects in an all-out, concentrated effort to make Vista look uninspired.... you better brace yourself. OS X is the face of the Mac, and Apple wants a face that's looks like it's dropped in from the future for a quick stay around town.
Meanwhile, there's little reason why good UI -- better open/save dialogs, a better Finder, a better Spotlight interface -- can't co-exist with good design and even splashy effects. Both are of course needed.
Quote:
Dock: why? Would it be a better Dock with an isometric 3d view? Nope.
Partly stylistic, I think, in an ongoing move to add "depth" in the UI, but also, I think window minimization can be much improved, and being able to fan in, fan out, and shuffle around windows (rather like cards) on the right-hand side could be a useful ability, and moving the Dock into a slightly isometric view makes that kind of shuffling & arrangement very compact and much more viable.
Comments
Disappointed? What else is it going to be? Vista's 'big thing' is the eye candy. It's the most obvious way to slap M$ back down. M$ cheesy copys on the cardboardy foundations of xp and Apple bury them with an elegant theme that builds on an easier to use OS.
We've seen example's of the new interface, I believe in iPhoto, Aperture and the X blurb page.
It's definitely, in my mind, one ofthe key features hiding in the background.
I like the look of what I've seen of Illuminous so far. More sophisticated, mature and grown up.
We'll see. Only 3 weeks to go...
Lemon Bon Bon 8)
I think Apple has no choice but to reply in kind to vista's eye candy. And they've had some time to work on that reply.
Disappointed? What else is it going to be? Vista's 'big thing' is the eye candy. It's the most obvious way to slap M$ back down. M$ cheesy copys on the cardboardy foundations of xp and Apple bury them with an elegant theme that builds on an easier to use OS.
We've seen example's of the new interface, I believe in iPhoto, Aperture and the X blurb page.
It's definitely, in my mind, one ofthe key features hiding in the background.
I like the look of what I've seen of Illuminous so far. More sophisticated, mature and grown up.
We'll see. Only 3 weeks to go...
Lemon Bon Bon 8)
If Apple really wants to pull this off, it must be applied system-wide.
It's clear in my mind that there is zero communication between the application teams. They do whatever they feel like doing when it comes to the interface and there's nobody around to tell them "no, you can't do that because it would be inconsistent with the other apps' way of doing things". None of them (pretty much) use the native OS UI elements...almost every UI element in Apple's apps is custom made.
There is no GUI Big Boss at Apple.
I'm very scared to see what frankensteinesque experience a new theme would bring. If Illuminous does exist (and I doubt it does), the app teams probably haven't heard of it either and will have to undergo a massive app face lift to abide to new theme guidelines or suffer the same fate as Activity Monitor, Disk Utility, and other apps that still retain the 10.3 look'n'feel instead of sporting the 10.4 unified look.
What'll happen when iWork and iLife '07 are released to work on 10.4? They'll definitely have the 10.4 look'n'feel while 3-4 months later, Leopard will drop with a new look that'll make iLife and iWork look like complete crap.
I've given up fighting this though. Jobs should be ashamed of himself for letting the GUI guidelines be ignored. The thing I want most from 10.5 is a GUI clean up. Bring all the apps to a single look'n'feel.
Judging from the 10.5 screenshots, we've got apps that still look like they're coming from the 10.1 era (TextEdit), the 10.2-10.3 era (Address Book, Activity Monitor, Disk Utility, Font Book, Preview).
I'd love to see brushed-metal completely eradicated...nobody followed the brushed-metal guidelines anyways...nobody. Font Book and Automator win the prize for Ugliest Brushed-Metal Look...with it's ridiculously huge borders. Address Book wins second prize. Safari has no borders...so much for guidelines. The Finder gets it right when it comes to guidelines but let's face it...brushed-metal looks out of place now.
It's sad that Apple has allowed such things to happen...now Apple will have to support all of this garbage for legacy purposes...so that old apps don't break or look uglier than they are now. And, of course, some developers actually love the brushed-metal look and some users will demand it...brushed-metal will be around for years to come thanks to a boneheaded move at Apple in 10.2.
In conclusion, I have no conclusion...the situation just plain sucks and Illuminous would cause a lot of problems.
BTW, for the record, Disk Utility is not using an out of date UI... Aqua windows can be unified or not, at the discretion of the developer. Having a non-unified toolbar does not mean the UI is out of date. Or is that not what you meant?
Amorya
kks, I agree there's a mish-mash of UI elements right now, and it could be a lot better - but look at the history over the last few years. The apps have become working labs for new UI ideas that are then percolated down to the OS level for everyone to use. This is the reverse of what Apple used to do, which was "Here's a whole new set of widgets, now go use them!" and generally, said widgets were ignored. Now each app team comes up with widgets designed for their specific need, and the useful pieces get propagated. Remember, iTunes used to be the *only* app with the oval search box. Now most of them have it. It was a single-app idea that proved to be really useful, so it spread.
If you want to see what will be in 10.5's default toolkit of widgets, look at what is now common among apps from Apple. I think the 'Aperture/Front Row' look, smoked translucent inspectors, et al, will become common.
Er... WWDC... closed doors... NDAs... maybe the devs are actually *gasp* respecting them this time around? Of course, I assume you meant the *public* WWDC keynote...
Actually, I meant the whole of WWDC. (I don't think mentioning something that wasn't in the sessions is falling afoul of "The content of this session is confidential"...)
You're right that non-custom widgets would get the new look for free... I'm just thinking about things like replicating the sources list (done by many apps, but there's no standard widget for it), or those glossy Aqua bars (of which I have a whole class devoted to drawing those in different colours). Yes, no individual thing is a mountain of work, but the more radical the change to the UI the more time devs need to test things. If the UI changes completely, then it brings in a whole new level of complexity where you have to detect which OS is running (at runtime) and present the appropriate resources. It's not something that Apple could slip in at the last moment. If you recall, even Aqua was shown off well in advance, to give people time to prepare.
Amorya
I'm looking forward to the new RI GUI.
Lemon Bon Bon
If the UI changes completely, then it brings in a whole new level of complexity where you have to detect which OS is running (at runtime) and present the appropriate resources. It's not something that Apple could slip in at the last moment. If you recall, even Aqua was shown off well in advance, to give people time to prepare.
It's true, but you can be sure that OS 9 --> Aqua was a much bigger change than Aqua --> Illuminous (or whatever the refreshed UI is called).
e.g. here's my personal, purely speculative guesses:
- dynamic lighting courtesy of CoreAnimation, for much more realistic and dramatic light sources to create shine and shadows. Adds considerable depth and presence to the screen.
- many more transitional animations, e.g. for opening and closing windows
- window styles a mix of Unified + Dark Metal (as seen in iTunes 7), with palettes all in the dark transparent HUD style; introduction of pie-chart menus for contextual menus; greater use of simplified capsule-style buttons, as used in Mail & Safari
- Dock gains an slightly isometric, 3D perspective, with new window minimization styles and features (e.g. different ways to organize and preview minimized windows in the Dock); also gains the greater flexibility in screen edge placement and how it pops up
- much improved, rather Quicksilver-like Spotlight UI, and a Finder with improved browsing capabilities (hopefully with a plug-in API, but who knows)
- zoom widget evolves to something more interesting and useful, e.g. a full-screen mode for apps (with an API developers can use)
I think most of the above improvements, f'instance, can be accomplished without badly upsetting the balance of many Aqua apps.
Dock: why? Would it be a better Dock with an isometric 3d view? Nope.
Okay, you can launch stuff and open windows another way, but it's not 'unnecessary' imho.
Hobbes: point 1 and 2: god no! A GUI should be helping you with doing whatever you want to do. No more animations! No dynamic lighting! Not eyecandy that gets in your way. I want more productivity! Better open/save dialogues, a better Finder.
Dock: why? Would it be a better Dock with an isometric 3d view? Nope.
Ideally: eye-candy that serves an underlying metaphor or purpose, a la Time Machine, or the scale/genie minimization effect.
Otherwise: eye-candy that isn't strictly necessary but doesn't much get in your way, e.g. the ripple effects in Dashboard.
But if you think there aren't going to be more animation and dynamic effects in an all-out, concentrated effort to make Vista look uninspired.... you better brace yourself.
Meanwhile, there's little reason why good UI -- better open/save dialogs, a better Finder, a better Spotlight interface -- can't co-exist with good design and even splashy effects. Both are of course needed.
Dock: why? Would it be a better Dock with an isometric 3d view? Nope.
Partly stylistic, I think, in an ongoing move to add "depth" in the UI, but also, I think window minimization can be much improved, and being able to fan in, fan out, and shuffle around windows (rather like cards) on the right-hand side could be a useful ability, and moving the Dock into a slightly isometric view makes that kind of shuffling & arrangement very compact and much more viable.