The penetration of HD DVD should be 3 million players by next March according to Toshiba. They are aiming for %60 of the HD playback share. I think they'll get there and when they do expect to see all studios but Sony shed their exclusive baggage."
So you believe that they will sell 2 million players in the first three months of 2008?
Don't be silly. Obviously, Murch will revise that downward with the new projections from Toshiba. He thinks they'll only sell 1 million players between December and March, same as before. Not that that's any more realistic.
Most of the bitching in the "out of box experience" doesn't make much sense and seems to find reasons to bash the PS3.
1) Does a Toshiba HD-DVD player or any blu-ray player come with component cables? (I don't know, this is a sincere question)
2) Does a Toshiba HD-DVD player or any blu-ray player come with HDMI cables?
3) Use optical, same level of quality as coax, every decent receiver has it (and HDTV). Who cares if it doesn't have both?
4) Does a Toshiba HD-DVD player or any blu-ray player come with an optical audio cable? Go buy one you cheap prick.
5) So troll like it has to be repeated to reach ten. See 2.
6) Use WiFi.
7) Every system comes with one controller, buy another one.
8) It comes with a charging cable, plug it in when the controller needs charging. If you have an extra controller or charge it when you are not using it then there is no issue as you don't need the cable to play. Isn't the point of wireless to not play with a cable connect to the controller?
9) Buy the remote.
10) Awesome, now a complete lie. There definitely is an eject button, I think this guy is retarded or something.
I see a theme here, this guy is just too cheap to buy the cable he wants to use (or have one laying around), buy a wireless router like everyone else has, play wirelessly or buy a remote.
Actually, My HD-XA1 HD-DVD player did come with HDMI, Component, and AV cables. I didn't get to use them because it was only about 6ft long, but it was there for free. Any of the RCA cable can be used as digital coaxial under 6 ft and retain 75ohms, so it did come with digial audio cable as well.
Anyway, you can find tons of such silly complaints for anything and everything. The loudest complaints usually does not come from the first hand users though.... just blame it on the internet. As you can see here the HD-DVD complaints can only be heard from those who owns neither of the hidef format hardwares. Internet makes everyone an owner, user, and an expert.....
Now here's something that can be cheaper than BR-RW drive:
bitemymac do you know if the same cables come in the lower end model's box? Thing is with cables, if there is a choice and they are going to throw in cheapies anyways, I'll choose the type I want to use. Unless it is HDMI, most people have the cables from a previous unit anyways.
I wonder who here actually has a blu-ray (non-PS3) or hd-dvd player and what their experience is with it.
I realized all these comparisons between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players hasn't been exactly valid. As far as I can tell, all the blu-ray players output 1080p, where not all HD-DVD players do. Toshiba is chopping out little things to make their low end model more affordable. Personally, I feel that their really shouldn't even be more than one level model (obviously there will be newer models with slight improvements). If you are springing all this cash for the HD experience shouldn't it all be created equal?
"Now here's something that can be cheaper than BR-RW drive:
The only way I am springing for a HD formatted drive is if it is burning, I don't need a combo player in my computer. I want 50GB blu-ray recording, it will be awhile until that is affordable.
You thought nothing of the sort. Folks thought that 2M HD-DVD units by the end of the year was stupid and yet you repeatedly stated that you believed that 2M units would be shipped. The "in North America" caveat now is just smokescreen to the older discussion on numbers. There was no way in hell HD-DVD was moving from 200K units to 2M units in either the US, world wide or even on Fantasy Island when we discussed this in march.
There's no way in hell that they are moving from 150K NA units in June 2007 to 1M units in December 2007 either because their run rates don't support that even with a end of year XMas uptick. If the folks releasing the 1.8M figure were on meth back then then they still are for releasing 1M in June with 8 months to go and abysmal numbers to date.
Sony's 100K units in 2007 was a heck of a lot more realistic...even if the new 600K number seems somewhat optimistic...but not crack smoking 1M optimistic.
That the HD-DVD promotion group only had a 60-40 advantage in standalone players is an abysmal statistic for HD-DVD given the price disparity between the standalones.
It was a stupid prediction then and its still stupid today. Much less HD-DVD's original 3M worldwide prediction by March 08.
The only reason that Blu-Ray is getting any market traction, meager as it is, is because of the PS3...which everyone (except you and other HD-DVD fanbois) pretty much accepted would be the reality because for the most part HD is a niche product in 2006-2008 and Toshiba had nothing to drive HD-DVD acceptance once MS didn't use it in the 360.
Sony won the console war with respect to BR vs HD-DVD adoption the moment the 360 shipped sans built-in HD-DVD drive regardless of how well or poorly the PS3 does vs the Wii or 360 so long as it sells in the millions. Which it has.
Vinea
murch is now a smoldering pile of rubble. Oh, the humanity!
After reading this PS3 "out of box experience" from the HD For Indies blog and I find some of this disappointing:
1.) the included A/V breakout cable with three RCA plugs? That isn't component, that's COMPOSITE and RCA stereo pair. So while it is true that they include cables in the box to connect to your TV or HDTV, it is in the lowest possible common denominator plug. As a gaming platform, there's some logic to it, but as a high end A/V device, this comes across as just plain cheap for a $600 item.
2.) No HDMI cable included
3.) Only one digital audio output, and it is digital optical - no digital coax. Many high end devices offer both.
4.) No digital optical cable included.
5.) No HDMI cable included. Harrumph.
6.) while an Ethernet cable is included, it is only 9 or so feet long - who has an Ethernet drop or box within 9 feet of their TV stuff? I need a longer one - 12 would have done it for me.
7.) As a gaming device, only one controller included - this works for Internet based gaming, but not 1-on-1 in person.
8.) the controller cable is woefully short - I'd have to put the PS3 three feet in front of the TV to have the cable long enough to reach me sitting down
9.) As a Blu-ray player, the "this is a gaming platform" is reinforced by the fact that there is no "normal" A/V remote control included - until my remote gets here, I have to use a game controller to play back (once I get it set up). Awkward.
10.) Update - now I have a #10 - as a media device, there is no hardware disc eject on the device - you have to do it through the remote or a controller.
As a PS3 owner, I'd like to respond to that.
HDMI Cable: They cost $35-60 and a lot of people don't have that connectivity yet anyway. They're already losing $200 on the console. Maybe they should lose $250 instead? Seriously, my HDTV didn't come with one either. What does that mean? Nothing.
Digital Audio: I really don't see why this would be an issue. He's just nitpicking. And again, how many cables should they include. Maybe one for every type of connectivity?
Ethernet: So wait...he's first complaining about the lack of cables, and then complaining when one IS included? And it's 9 feet...that's a reasonable length. Perhaps he's arguing in favor or dropping it for an HDMI or digital audio cable. I could live with that.
Controller: Including one controller has been common practice for years on a variety of consoles.
Length of cord: It's a charging cable. The controller is wireless and from personal experience, has excellent battery life.
Remote: Go to Wal-Mart and buy one for $29. I mean shit, get over it.
#10 Not sure about that. My initial thought was this is not true...that you can just hold your finger on the eject button for a few seconds. I have to check it out.
#10 Not sure about that. My initial thought was this is not true...that you can just hold your finger on the eject button for a few seconds. I have to check it out.
There is an eject button on the console. I don't even know how to do it with the controller - there is no eject in the pop up menu.
Personally I could give a rats ass which manufacturer is losing how much money on whichever units. The point is that $600 is still $600 frickin' dollars! I'm the consumer and $600 is a lot of bread. I don't give a shit how much money Sony is losing. I'm sure they have their reasons. But Sony sells $129 DVD players that include an HDMI cable.
Has anyone shopped for HDMI cables at Best Buy. They're frickin' expensive. And if you're using the PS3 as a Blu-Ray box you are most likely hooking it up to an HDTV (where you only have two connection options, HDMI or Component). But even the cheapo DVD players include HDMI cables these days.
The other missing components I can understand. I don't expect digital audio cables to be included. I also don't expect a DVD-style remote control from a PS3 either. But I DO EXPECT at least a component video cable and AT LEAST an S-VIDEO cable. But to get NONE of that is a little screwed up.
And to assume that an HDMI cable costs Sony $50 per unit is laughably absurd. EVERYONE knows Sony purchases this stuff in MASSIVE BULK. A simple HDMI cable probably costs Sony $3.
Personally I could give a rats ass which manufacturer is losing how much money on whichever units. The point is that $600 is still $600 frickin' dollars! I'm the consumer and $600 is a lot of bread. I don't give a shit how much money Sony is losing. I'm sure they have their reasons. But Sony sells $129 DVD players that include an HDMI cable.
Has anyone shopped for HDMI cables at Best Buy. They're frickin' expensive. And if you're using the PS3 as a Blu-Ray box you are most likely hooking it up to an HDTV (where you only have two connection options, HDMI or Component). But even the cheapo DVD players include HDMI cables these days.
The other missing components I can understand. I don't expect digital audio cables to be included. I also don't expect a DVD-style remote control from a PS3 either. But I DO EXPECT at least a component video cable and AT LEAST an S-VIDEO cable. But to get NONE of that is a little screwed up.
And to assume that an HDMI cable costs Sony $50 per unit is laughably absurd. EVERYONE knows Sony purchases this stuff in MASSIVE BULK. A simple HDMI cable probably costs Sony $3.
So really that's your big gripe. Gotcha. And no, I didn't claim it cost them $50. I was just tossing a number out there...$250. They retail for $25-60 actually, so I'd assume in bulk wholesale they could get them for $15 or so. Definitely not $3.
Yup.... this is the best place to get good quality cables cheap. I do all my cable shopping at monoprice. Most retail shops will rip you off.... especially BB.
Yup.... this is the best place to get good quality cables cheap. I do all my cable shopping at monoprice. Most retail shops will rip you off.... especially BB.
I've purchased my cables mostly at Home Depot, of all places. Usually the best price when shipping is taken into account, for the on-line stores. The downside is selection. I sometimes buy on-line because Home Depot doesn't have exactly what I need.
As far as I can tell, all the blu-ray players output 1080p, where not all HD-DVD players do.
Not a huge deal for a couple of reasons:
1) The number of HDTVs doing 1080i or 720p far out-number the TVs doing 1080p. Only within the last year...year and a half have 1080p TVs come to the price point of consumer levels. Additonaly 1080p is only noticable at 60"+ (sorry, no quote on this, but have heard and seen it many times), again limiting the number of consumers who have this kind of equipment.
2) All HD DVDs and Blu-ray disks are stored in 1080p. Meaning the actual video on the disk, for both formats, is 1080p. So if/when 1080p capable HD DVD players come out, the disks are already there.
3) In the 2006 version of this thread it was argued that a 1080p capable set would have no problem taking a 1080i input and displaying it in 1080p. Since you aren't doing any video resizing (like scaling 720p content to 1080p), there is no quality difference. I am totaly pararasing on this one, so point and laugh if I am way off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate
... you are most likely hooking it up to an HDTV (where you only have two connection options, HDMI or Component).
Or your like my Dad (purchased 8-10 years ago?) who has an early HDTV that only has Component and RGB inputs. Or your like Me (purchased 4 years ago) and only have Component and DVI. HDMI is pretty new in the scope of HDTVs (last year...year and a half?), so I can understand not including it in the box. But they should have at least tossed in a cheap component cable, as ALL HDTVs have at least that.
1) The number of HDTVs doing 1080i or 720p far out-number the TVs doing 1080p. Only within the last year...year and a half have 1080p TVs come to the price point of consumer levels. Additonaly 1080p is only noticable at 60"+
The interesting part of 1080p is not 1920x1080 but 24fps playback, and not only 1080p displays can handle 1080p/24.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787
3) In the 2006 version of this thread it was argued that a 1080p capable set would have no problem taking a 1080i input and displaying it in 1080p. Since you aren't doing any video resizing (like scaling 720p content to 1080p), there is no quality difference. I am totaly pararasing on this one, so point and laugh if I am way off.
Unless the tv doesn't know how to handle 1080i60 and do reverse telecine, there will be judder.
HDMI Cable: They cost $35-60 and a lot of people don't have that connectivity yet anyway. They're already losing $200 on the console. Maybe they should lose $250 instead? Seriously, my HDTV didn't come with one either. What does that mean? Nothing.
The interesting part of 1080p is not 1920x1080 but 24fps playback, and not only 1080p displays can handle 1080p/24.
Honest question, but what exactly are you saying? If you are saying "not only 1080p displays can handle 1080p/24" are you implying that other devices/TVs can do 1080p/24? Or did you mean that only 1080p displays can handle 1080p/24? I've been at work all day, so maybe I am just misreading, and its not making sense to me.
Another question, but can 1080p capable sets handle 60fps, or is it limited to 30?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL
Unless the tv doesn't know how to handle 1080i60 and do reverse telecine, there will be judder.
I would think that most (if not all) 1080p displays would be able to handle the 1080i signal just fine. Otherwise, wouldn't people with directv or comcast watching 1080i feeds be complaining left and right?
So really that's your big gripe. Gotcha. And no, I didn't claim it cost them $50. I was just tossing a number out there...$250. They retail for $25-60 actually, so I'd assume in bulk wholesale they could get them for $15 or so. Definitely not $3.
It's not my "big" grip. It's just a gripe. Why? Because I'm budgeting for a PS3. But when I read that the PS3 comes without a single useful interconnect cable I realized I needed to re-adjust my budget for the PS3 to include ALL the accessories. Which pissed me off.
And it is a pet peeve of mine that manufacturers do not include all the appropriate cables with their systems when you consider 1) the bulk purchasing power they enjoy, and 2) how expensive their products are, and 3) you can't help but feel like you're getting milked "for a few dollars more".
Sony knew damn good and well that the PS3 was going to be used as a blu-ray player. Did they include a remote control that would cost them $5 to produce in bulk? No. Gotta buy that one too. And has anyone really used a game controller to navigate around DVD menus on a continuous basis? It's an awful user experience. But then I'm one of those typical guys who sits on the couch with the remote hanging out of my hand during the entire movie. LOL!
Or your like my Dad (purchased 8-10 years ago?) who has an early HDTV that only has Component and RGB inputs. Or your like Me (purchased 4 years ago) and only have Component and DVI. HDMI is pretty new in the scope of HDTVs (last year...year and a half?), so I can understand not including it in the box. But they should have at least tossed in a cheap component cable, as ALL HDTVs have at least that.
Point taken.
However, could Sony AT LEAST give us a component cable? Apparently that was the expense that was going to break Sony's back.
Comments
On page 39 you said:
"Ahhhhhh things are looking rosey ...I must say.
The penetration of HD DVD should be 3 million players by next March according to Toshiba. They are aiming for %60 of the HD playback share. I think they'll get there and when they do expect to see all studios but Sony shed their exclusive baggage."
So you believe that they will sell 2 million players in the first three months of 2008?
Don't be silly. Obviously, Murch will revise that downward with the new projections from Toshiba. He thinks they'll only sell 1 million players between December and March, same as before. Not that that's any more realistic.
Most of the bitching in the "out of box experience" doesn't make much sense and seems to find reasons to bash the PS3.
1) Does a Toshiba HD-DVD player or any blu-ray player come with component cables? (I don't know, this is a sincere question)
2) Does a Toshiba HD-DVD player or any blu-ray player come with HDMI cables?
3) Use optical, same level of quality as coax, every decent receiver has it (and HDTV). Who cares if it doesn't have both?
4) Does a Toshiba HD-DVD player or any blu-ray player come with an optical audio cable? Go buy one you cheap prick.
5) So troll like it has to be repeated to reach ten. See 2.
6) Use WiFi.
7) Every system comes with one controller, buy another one.
8) It comes with a charging cable, plug it in when the controller needs charging. If you have an extra controller or charge it when you are not using it then there is no issue as you don't need the cable to play. Isn't the point of wireless to not play with a cable connect to the controller?
9) Buy the remote.
10) Awesome, now a complete lie. There definitely is an eject button, I think this guy is retarded or something.
I see a theme here, this guy is just too cheap to buy the cable he wants to use (or have one laying around), buy a wireless router like everyone else has, play wirelessly or buy a remote.
Actually, My HD-XA1 HD-DVD player did come with HDMI, Component, and AV cables. I didn't get to use them because it was only about 6ft long, but it was there for free. Any of the RCA cable can be used as digital coaxial under 6 ft and retain 75ohms, so it did come with digial audio cable as well.
Anyway, you can find tons of such silly complaints for anything and everything. The loudest complaints usually does not come from the first hand users though.... just blame it on the internet. As you can see here the HD-DVD complaints can only be heard from those who owns neither of the hidef format hardwares. Internet makes everyone an owner, user, and an expert.....
Now here's something that can be cheaper than BR-RW drive:
http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/...spx?i=3006&p=5
I wonder who here actually has a blu-ray (non-PS3) or hd-dvd player and what their experience is with it.
I realized all these comparisons between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players hasn't been exactly valid. As far as I can tell, all the blu-ray players output 1080p, where not all HD-DVD players do. Toshiba is chopping out little things to make their low end model more affordable. Personally, I feel that their really shouldn't even be more than one level model (obviously there will be newer models with slight improvements). If you are springing all this cash for the HD experience shouldn't it all be created equal?
"Now here's something that can be cheaper than BR-RW drive:
http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/...spx?i=3006&p=5";
The only way I am springing for a HD formatted drive is if it is burning, I don't need a combo player in my computer. I want 50GB blu-ray recording, it will be awhile until that is affordable.
You thought nothing of the sort. Folks thought that 2M HD-DVD units by the end of the year was stupid and yet you repeatedly stated that you believed that 2M units would be shipped. The "in North America" caveat now is just smokescreen to the older discussion on numbers. There was no way in hell HD-DVD was moving from 200K units to 2M units in either the US, world wide or even on Fantasy Island when we discussed this in march.
There's no way in hell that they are moving from 150K NA units in June 2007 to 1M units in December 2007 either because their run rates don't support that even with a end of year XMas uptick. If the folks releasing the 1.8M figure were on meth back then then they still are for releasing 1M in June with 8 months to go and abysmal numbers to date.
Sony's 100K units in 2007 was a heck of a lot more realistic...even if the new 600K number seems somewhat optimistic...but not crack smoking 1M optimistic.
That the HD-DVD promotion group only had a 60-40 advantage in standalone players is an abysmal statistic for HD-DVD given the price disparity between the standalones.
It was a stupid prediction then and its still stupid today. Much less HD-DVD's original 3M worldwide prediction by March 08.
The only reason that Blu-Ray is getting any market traction, meager as it is, is because of the PS3...which everyone (except you and other HD-DVD fanbois) pretty much accepted would be the reality because for the most part HD is a niche product in 2006-2008 and Toshiba had nothing to drive HD-DVD acceptance once MS didn't use it in the 360.
Sony won the console war with respect to BR vs HD-DVD adoption the moment the 360 shipped sans built-in HD-DVD drive regardless of how well or poorly the PS3 does vs the Wii or 360 so long as it sells in the millions. Which it has.
Vinea
murch is now a smoldering pile of rubble. Oh, the humanity!
After reading this PS3 "out of box experience" from the HD For Indies blog and I find some of this disappointing:
1.) the included A/V breakout cable with three RCA plugs? That isn't component, that's COMPOSITE and RCA stereo pair. So while it is true that they include cables in the box to connect to your TV or HDTV, it is in the lowest possible common denominator plug. As a gaming platform, there's some logic to it, but as a high end A/V device, this comes across as just plain cheap for a $600 item.
2.) No HDMI cable included
3.) Only one digital audio output, and it is digital optical - no digital coax. Many high end devices offer both.
4.) No digital optical cable included.
5.) No HDMI cable included. Harrumph.
6.) while an Ethernet cable is included, it is only 9 or so feet long - who has an Ethernet drop or box within 9 feet of their TV stuff? I need a longer one - 12 would have done it for me.
7.) As a gaming device, only one controller included - this works for Internet based gaming, but not 1-on-1 in person.
8.) the controller cable is woefully short - I'd have to put the PS3 three feet in front of the TV to have the cable long enough to reach me sitting down
9.) As a Blu-ray player, the "this is a gaming platform" is reinforced by the fact that there is no "normal" A/V remote control included - until my remote gets here, I have to use a game controller to play back (once I get it set up). Awkward.
10.) Update - now I have a #10 - as a media device, there is no hardware disc eject on the device - you have to do it through the remote or a controller.
As a PS3 owner, I'd like to respond to that.
HDMI Cable: They cost $35-60 and a lot of people don't have that connectivity yet anyway. They're already losing $200 on the console. Maybe they should lose $250 instead? Seriously, my HDTV didn't come with one either. What does that mean? Nothing.
Digital Audio: I really don't see why this would be an issue. He's just nitpicking. And again, how many cables should they include. Maybe one for every type of connectivity?
Ethernet: So wait...he's first complaining about the lack of cables, and then complaining when one IS included? And it's 9 feet...that's a reasonable length. Perhaps he's arguing in favor or dropping it for an HDMI or digital audio cable. I could live with that.
Controller: Including one controller has been common practice for years on a variety of consoles.
Length of cord: It's a charging cable. The controller is wireless and from personal experience, has excellent battery life.
Remote: Go to Wal-Mart and buy one for $29. I mean shit, get over it.
#10 Not sure about that. My initial thought was this is not true...that you can just hold your finger on the eject button for a few seconds. I have to check it out.
#10 Not sure about that. My initial thought was this is not true...that you can just hold your finger on the eject button for a few seconds. I have to check it out.
There is an eject button on the console. I don't even know how to do it with the controller - there is no eject in the pop up menu.
Has anyone shopped for HDMI cables at Best Buy. They're frickin' expensive. And if you're using the PS3 as a Blu-Ray box you are most likely hooking it up to an HDTV (where you only have two connection options, HDMI or Component). But even the cheapo DVD players include HDMI cables these days.
The other missing components I can understand. I don't expect digital audio cables to be included. I also don't expect a DVD-style remote control from a PS3 either. But I DO EXPECT at least a component video cable and AT LEAST an S-VIDEO cable. But to get NONE of that is a little screwed up.
And to assume that an HDMI cable costs Sony $50 per unit is laughably absurd. EVERYONE knows Sony purchases this stuff in MASSIVE BULK. A simple HDMI cable probably costs Sony $3.
Personally I could give a rats ass which manufacturer is losing how much money on whichever units. The point is that $600 is still $600 frickin' dollars! I'm the consumer and $600 is a lot of bread. I don't give a shit how much money Sony is losing. I'm sure they have their reasons. But Sony sells $129 DVD players that include an HDMI cable.
Has anyone shopped for HDMI cables at Best Buy. They're frickin' expensive. And if you're using the PS3 as a Blu-Ray box you are most likely hooking it up to an HDTV (where you only have two connection options, HDMI or Component). But even the cheapo DVD players include HDMI cables these days.
The other missing components I can understand. I don't expect digital audio cables to be included. I also don't expect a DVD-style remote control from a PS3 either. But I DO EXPECT at least a component video cable and AT LEAST an S-VIDEO cable. But to get NONE of that is a little screwed up.
And to assume that an HDMI cable costs Sony $50 per unit is laughably absurd. EVERYONE knows Sony purchases this stuff in MASSIVE BULK. A simple HDMI cable probably costs Sony $3.
So really that's your big gripe. Gotcha. And no, I didn't claim it cost them $50. I was just tossing a number out there...$250. They retail for $25-60 actually, so I'd assume in bulk wholesale they could get them for $15 or so. Definitely not $3.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...d=10240&style=
In UK, HD players have not taken off simply because of price but HD Televisions have seen a big drop in price over the last 12 months.
Superb analysis there, on page 100,000 of this thread. I'm glad we waited for your opinion.
Northgate, if you're shopping for HDMI cables at Best Buy you obviously have money to burn. Monoprice is the place to order them.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...d=10240&style=
Yup.... this is the best place to get good quality cables cheap. I do all my cable shopping at monoprice. Most retail shops will rip you off.... especially BB.
Yup.... this is the best place to get good quality cables cheap. I do all my cable shopping at monoprice. Most retail shops will rip you off.... especially BB.
I've purchased my cables mostly at Home Depot, of all places. Usually the best price when shipping is taken into account, for the on-line stores. The downside is selection. I sometimes buy on-line because Home Depot doesn't have exactly what I need.
As far as I can tell, all the blu-ray players output 1080p, where not all HD-DVD players do.
Not a huge deal for a couple of reasons:
1) The number of HDTVs doing 1080i or 720p far out-number the TVs doing 1080p. Only within the last year...year and a half have 1080p TVs come to the price point of consumer levels. Additonaly 1080p is only noticable at 60"+ (sorry, no quote on this, but have heard and seen it many times), again limiting the number of consumers who have this kind of equipment.
2) All HD DVDs and Blu-ray disks are stored in 1080p. Meaning the actual video on the disk, for both formats, is 1080p. So if/when 1080p capable HD DVD players come out, the disks are already there.
3) In the 2006 version of this thread it was argued that a 1080p capable set would have no problem taking a 1080i input and displaying it in 1080p. Since you aren't doing any video resizing (like scaling 720p content to 1080p), there is no quality difference. I am totaly pararasing on this one, so point and laugh if I am way off.
... you are most likely hooking it up to an HDTV (where you only have two connection options, HDMI or Component).
Or your like my Dad (purchased 8-10 years ago?) who has an early HDTV that only has Component and RGB inputs. Or your like Me (purchased 4 years ago) and only have Component and DVI. HDMI is pretty new in the scope of HDTVs (last year...year and a half?), so I can understand not including it in the box. But they should have at least tossed in a cheap component cable, as ALL HDTVs have at least that.
Not a huge deal for a couple of reasons:
1) The number of HDTVs doing 1080i or 720p far out-number the TVs doing 1080p. Only within the last year...year and a half have 1080p TVs come to the price point of consumer levels. Additonaly 1080p is only noticable at 60"+
The interesting part of 1080p is not 1920x1080 but 24fps playback, and not only 1080p displays can handle 1080p/24.
3) In the 2006 version of this thread it was argued that a 1080p capable set would have no problem taking a 1080i input and displaying it in 1080p. Since you aren't doing any video resizing (like scaling 720p content to 1080p), there is no quality difference. I am totaly pararasing on this one, so point and laugh if I am way off.
Unless the tv doesn't know how to handle 1080i60 and do reverse telecine, there will be judder.
As a PS3 owner, I'd like to respond to that.
HDMI Cable: They cost $35-60 and a lot of people don't have that connectivity yet anyway. They're already losing $200 on the console. Maybe they should lose $250 instead? Seriously, my HDTV didn't come with one either. What does that mean? Nothing.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=
$15. Decent quality...or at least the DVI and component cables I've gotten from them are. Best place for cheap cables.
Vinea
Edit: Seems I'm late to this party...should read to the end of the thread.
The interesting part of 1080p is not 1920x1080 but 24fps playback, and not only 1080p displays can handle 1080p/24.
Honest question, but what exactly are you saying? If you are saying "not only 1080p displays can handle 1080p/24" are you implying that other devices/TVs can do 1080p/24? Or did you mean that only 1080p displays can handle 1080p/24? I've been at work all day, so maybe I am just misreading, and its not making sense to me.
Another question, but can 1080p capable sets handle 60fps, or is it limited to 30?
Unless the tv doesn't know how to handle 1080i60 and do reverse telecine, there will be judder.
I would think that most (if not all) 1080p displays would be able to handle the 1080i signal just fine. Otherwise, wouldn't people with directv or comcast watching 1080i feeds be complaining left and right?
So really that's your big gripe. Gotcha. And no, I didn't claim it cost them $50. I was just tossing a number out there...$250. They retail for $25-60 actually, so I'd assume in bulk wholesale they could get them for $15 or so. Definitely not $3.
It's not my "big" grip. It's just a gripe. Why? Because I'm budgeting for a PS3. But when I read that the PS3 comes without a single useful interconnect cable I realized I needed to re-adjust my budget for the PS3 to include ALL the accessories. Which pissed me off.
And it is a pet peeve of mine that manufacturers do not include all the appropriate cables with their systems when you consider 1) the bulk purchasing power they enjoy, and 2) how expensive their products are, and 3) you can't help but feel like you're getting milked "for a few dollars more".
Sony knew damn good and well that the PS3 was going to be used as a blu-ray player. Did they include a remote control that would cost them $5 to produce in bulk? No. Gotta buy that one too. And has anyone really used a game controller to navigate around DVD menus on a continuous basis? It's an awful user experience. But then I'm one of those typical guys who sits on the couch with the remote hanging out of my hand during the entire movie. LOL!
Or your like my Dad (purchased 8-10 years ago?) who has an early HDTV that only has Component and RGB inputs. Or your like Me (purchased 4 years ago) and only have Component and DVI. HDMI is pretty new in the scope of HDTVs (last year...year and a half?), so I can understand not including it in the box. But they should have at least tossed in a cheap component cable, as ALL HDTVs have at least that.
Point taken.
However, could Sony AT LEAST give us a component cable? Apparently that was the expense that was going to break Sony's back.