When PC evolved from 5.25" to 3.5" floppy, then CD to DVD media a mess for PC users? On the optical side.... CD/DVD or -/+R always existed and having a drive supporting both cleared everything up.
How is HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray any different with combo drives?
Big difference. DVD formats were essentially identical in terms of capacity, speed and reader compatibility. Notice the other formats you mentioned all evolved in the direction of more speed and capacity. Answer this: what happened to all the other storage formats that you didn't bother to mention? Should we have had a universal drive that also supported Zip, Jaz, Bernoulli and other formats? Why didn't LS-120 take off even though it was a "universal" drive that included microfloppy read and write? DIVX (no, I'm not talking about DivX; just wanted to clear that up) players were universal, since they played both DIVX and DVD discs. Where are they today?
Yes just like the Region B Blu-ray disc that doesn't have PCM either.
That's Warners fault - not the Blu-ray format's. At least they are starting to put uncompressed sound on Blu-ray now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Also let us be honest consumers don't care about lossless audio. There are plenty of HDTV running through cheap "lifestyle" or Home Theater in a Box systems.
I have a feeling that if HD DVD offered more space than Blu-ray and uncompressed sound was the norm on HD DVD, you would have the exact opposite opinion.
And why settle for less when you can have it uncompressed?
And why settle for less when you can have it uncompressed?
Maybe the same reason people burn MP3s to a disk to play in a car (and I am talking about MP3s converted to CD, not an MP3 CD). Look at SACD and DVD-Audio. Small niche players, because most people find CDs to be enough. Hell, most people find MP3s to be enough. Most people just don't care about uncompressed audio. I have what I feel is a respectable setup (decent, not great). A pair of 10 year old McIntosh speakers, a 20 year old 15” Velodyne sub (both are hand me downs from my dad), and a NAD amp (very low end). It is only a 2.1 setup, no fancy 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound setup for me, and everything sounds great (from music to movies). All my music is MP3s and AAC files off my AppleTV. Video is either DirecTV HD or DVDs from my AppleTV. For me, migrating everything to my AppleTV and external HD, uncompressed audio would be a waste of space.
On a side note, an interesting article I just read about HDMI 1.3, and how it means nothing really.
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Blu-ray high-definition movie discs outsold films on the rival HD-DVD format by 2-to-1 in the United States in the first half of 2007, Home Media Research said on Tuesday.
What I mean is why not support Blu-ray which in most cases gives you both instead of HD DVD which in most cases don't?
Why root for HD resolution and not sound?
Because for Murch its "All about the movies" don't you listen and hey if he wants to watch silent movies, we really shouldn't judge
Perfectly reasonable to assume he would tout it as the greatest thing EVA if HD-DVD was uncompressed and BD was not, thats where he's at when its not "All about the movies(tm)"
What I mean is why not support Blu-ray which in most cases gives you both instead of HD DVD which in most cases don't?
Why root for HD resolution and not sound?
For me? Seeing a difference is easier than hearing one. Give me two audio tracks, I probably couldn't tell the difference between CD and SACD. Show me a DVD and HD DVD/Blu-ray, I can spot the difference.
Honestly, audio is last on my list of "things I root for". For me its:
1) DRM (Blu-ray has more, but in the end probably wont matter as it will be broken like every other DRM scheme)
2) Content (my last check pegged me in the HD DVD camp more so than the Blu-ray camp based on current releases)
3) Cost (HD DVD leads for now, but given time this wont matter)
4) Region coding (with HD DVD having none, peopel are already able to import 'Blu-ray exclusives' which are on HD DVD overseas).
Well... this is only important for Blu-Ray player compatibility for accessing Lossless audio. Since most 1st and 2nd generation Blu-Ray player can not decode advanced audio codec like TrueHD, the studios have no choice but use uncompressed multi-channel PCM to provide lossless audio track. However, all HD-DVD players can decode TrueHD and storage inefficient uncompressed audio is not needed. The TrueHD codec is compressed but able to deliver lossless audio, hence more storage efficient TrueHD codec can be used to reproduce lossless audio for HD-DVD. The TrueHD on Blu-Ray movie would mean over 90% of Blu-Ray players won't be able to deliver lossless audio unless it also includes redundant multi-channel PCM audio track.
Therefore, uncompressed sound doesn't hold any more value than the compressed advanced audio codec like TrueHD when the players can decode them. Once processed, both uncompressed sound or compressed TrueHD will deliver lossless sound track.
Well... this is only important for Blu-Ray player compatibility for accessing Lossless audio. Since most 1st and 2nd generation Blu-Ray player can not decode advanced audio codec like TrueHD
I meant lossless and not uncompressed, sorry.
And lossless sound on HD DVD is not as common as lossless on Blu-ray.
Btw. most players can handle TrueHD when using the latest firmware.
And lossless sound on HD DVD is not as common as lossless on Blu-ray.
This is true. More Blu-Ray titles have lossless audio than the HD-DVD. However, most HD-DVD titles offer 1.5mbps DD+ which the audio performance does come close to having Lossless audio.
BTW, lossless does not mean grade A audio quality all the time, if the source is dirty. You can see that not all multi-channel PCM tracks on Blu-Ray get the top AQ score.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL
Btw. most players can handle TrueHD when using the latest firmware.
Is ths true?... So majority of Blu-Ray players can currently process TrueHD and deliver lossless from it? I thought it was a promised spec that still haven't been materialized in the firmware updates.
Sorry, but even your arguments here don't make much sense. Why settle for importing when you don't have to.
2nd link doesn't work, and first one shows a list where half the disks don't work. So what was that you were saying about my arguments not making much sense? HD DVD is 100% region free. Blu-way appears to be about 50%. My "arguement" (if you can even call it that, as I wasn't arguing really) was that if HD DVD was the only provider we woudln't have to worry about importing. If Blu Ray is the only provider, we will. Until you can prove that otherwise, I think your was a bit premature.
But my point stands, region coding was number 4 on my list, something I care about, but not a whole lot. More so than audio, but less so than cost, content, and DRM. But like I said, this is for me, everyone has different takes on it.
LOL.... you have to be a pretty hardcore movie enthusiasts to appreciate the meaning of region free player or region free movie format. People buying PS3 as the main BD player are the least likely crowd to import foreign films. Perhaps importing foreign games instead?
I guess.... when it comes to the J6P mass market, the region code wouldn't be an issue unless the spider-man series get released early with region code in UK?
Taiwan Blu-ray burner manufacturers are reporting that they have received some rather large inquiries and orders for Blu-ray burning PC drives. Because prices for BD burners remains high, orders are usually for anywhere between 2,000 to 3,000 units. However, recent inquires and orders by US and European companies are now ten times that, between 20,000 to 30,000 units, signifying that retailers and computer manufacturers may be preparing for a Blu-ray push this fall.
Taiwan manufacturers note that, at least for now, they will be able to meet demand, but if more manufacturers make orders as large as what they are receiving today, they may fall short. Additionally, the lasers necessary for these burners may run into supply issues if Japanese manufacturers can't keep up with demand.
Could Apple finally be getting around to making Blu-ray drives a BTO option for Mac Pros?
Could Apple finally be getting around to making Blu-ray drives a BTO option for Mac Pros?
Something to ponder, but the current version of OS X doesn't support UDF 2.5 (needed for Blu-ray and HD DVD), but Leopard does. I wouldn't be surprised to see new drives around the time Leopard ships. Additionally, from what I read over at Ars, part of the AACS spec states that the operating system must have a protected path for media, something Apple doesn't currently do. Add to the fact that the Cinema displays, and the Mac Pro graphics cards, would need to be updated to use HDMI, I think it is a little more than just swapping in a Blu-Ray drive. Sure, it will eventually happen, but I say not until Leopard at least.
Comments
When PC evolved from 5.25" to 3.5" floppy, then CD to DVD media a mess for PC users? On the optical side.... CD/DVD or -/+R always existed and having a drive supporting both cleared everything up.
How is HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray any different with combo drives?
Big difference. DVD formats were essentially identical in terms of capacity, speed and reader compatibility. Notice the other formats you mentioned all evolved in the direction of more speed and capacity. Answer this: what happened to all the other storage formats that you didn't bother to mention? Should we have had a universal drive that also supported Zip, Jaz, Bernoulli and other formats? Why didn't LS-120 take off even though it was a "universal" drive that included microfloppy read and write? DIVX (no, I'm not talking about DivX; just wanted to clear that up) players were universal, since they played both DIVX and DVD discs. Where are they today?
But no uncompressed sound.
Yes just like the Region B Blu-ray disc that doesn't have PCM either. Also
let us be honest consumers don't care about lossless audio. There are plenty of
HDTV running through cheap "lifestyle" or Home Theater in a Box systems.
Yes just like the Region B Blu-ray disc that doesn't have PCM either.
That's Warners fault - not the Blu-ray format's. At least they are starting to put uncompressed sound on Blu-ray now.
Also let us be honest consumers don't care about lossless audio. There are plenty of HDTV running through cheap "lifestyle" or Home Theater in a Box systems.
I have a feeling that if HD DVD offered more space than Blu-ray and uncompressed sound was the norm on HD DVD, you would have the exact opposite opinion.
And why settle for less when you can have it uncompressed?
And why settle for less when you can have it uncompressed?
Maybe the same reason people burn MP3s to a disk to play in a car (and I am talking about MP3s converted to CD, not an MP3 CD). Look at SACD and DVD-Audio. Small niche players, because most people find CDs to be enough. Hell, most people find MP3s to be enough. Most people just don't care about uncompressed audio. I have what I feel is a respectable setup (decent, not great). A pair of 10 year old McIntosh speakers, a 20 year old 15” Velodyne sub (both are hand me downs from my dad), and a NAD amp (very low end). It is only a 2.1 setup, no fancy 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound setup for me, and everything sounds great (from music to movies). All my music is MP3s and AAC files off my AppleTV. Video is either DirecTV HD or DVDs from my AppleTV. For me, migrating everything to my AppleTV and external HD, uncompressed audio would be a waste of space.
On a side note, an interesting article I just read about HDMI 1.3, and how it means nothing really.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh..._Necessary/853
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...401709_pf.html
Maybe the same reason people burn MP3s to a disk to play in a car (and I am talking about MP3s converted to CD, not an MP3 CD).
What I mean is why not support Blu-ray which in most cases gives you both instead of HD DVD which in most cases don't?
Why root for HD resolution and not sound?
What I mean is why not support Blu-ray which in most cases gives you both instead of HD DVD which in most cases don't?
Why root for HD resolution and not sound?
Because for Murch its "All about the movies" don't you listen
Perfectly reasonable to assume he would tout it as the greatest thing EVA if HD-DVD was uncompressed and BD was not, thats where he's at when its not "All about the movies(tm)"
What I mean is why not support Blu-ray which in most cases gives you both instead of HD DVD which in most cases don't?
Why root for HD resolution and not sound?
For me? Seeing a difference is easier than hearing one. Give me two audio tracks, I probably couldn't tell the difference between CD and SACD. Show me a DVD and HD DVD/Blu-ray, I can spot the difference.
Honestly, audio is last on my list of "things I root for". For me its:
1) DRM (Blu-ray has more, but in the end probably wont matter as it will be broken like every other DRM scheme)
2) Content (my last check pegged me in the HD DVD camp more so than the Blu-ray camp based on current releases)
3) Cost (HD DVD leads for now, but given time this wont matter)
4) Region coding (with HD DVD having none, peopel are already able to import 'Blu-ray exclusives' which are on HD DVD overseas).
I dunno...maybe its just me.
But no uncompressed sound.
Well... this is only important for Blu-Ray player compatibility for accessing Lossless audio. Since most 1st and 2nd generation Blu-Ray player can not decode advanced audio codec like TrueHD, the studios have no choice but use uncompressed multi-channel PCM to provide lossless audio track. However, all HD-DVD players can decode TrueHD and storage inefficient uncompressed audio is not needed. The TrueHD codec is compressed but able to deliver lossless audio, hence more storage efficient TrueHD codec can be used to reproduce lossless audio for HD-DVD. The TrueHD on Blu-Ray movie would mean over 90% of Blu-Ray players won't be able to deliver lossless audio unless it also includes redundant multi-channel PCM audio track.
Therefore, uncompressed sound doesn't hold any more value than the compressed advanced audio codec like TrueHD when the players can decode them. Once processed, both uncompressed sound or compressed TrueHD will deliver lossless sound track.
4) Region coding (with HD DVD having none, peopel are already able to import 'Blu-ray exclusives' which are on HD DVD overseas).
If Blu-ray was the only HD media importing "Blu-ray exclusives released on HD DVD elsewhere" won't be necessary.
Well... this is only important for Blu-Ray player compatibility for accessing Lossless audio. Since most 1st and 2nd generation Blu-Ray player can not decode advanced audio codec like TrueHD
I meant lossless and not uncompressed, sorry.
And lossless sound on HD DVD is not as common as lossless on Blu-ray.
Btw. most players can handle TrueHD when using the latest firmware.
And lossless sound on HD DVD is not as common as lossless on Blu-ray.
This is true. More Blu-Ray titles have lossless audio than the HD-DVD. However, most HD-DVD titles offer 1.5mbps DD+ which the audio performance does come close to having Lossless audio.
BTW, lossless does not mean grade A audio quality all the time, if the source is dirty. You can see that not all multi-channel PCM tracks on Blu-Ray get the top AQ score.
Btw. most players can handle TrueHD when using the latest firmware.
Is ths true?... So majority of Blu-Ray players can currently process TrueHD and deliver lossless from it? I thought it was a promised spec that still haven't been materialized in the firmware updates.
If Blu-ray was the only HD media importing "Blu-ray exclusives released on HD DVD elsewhere" won't be necessary.
...but I wouldn't be able to import foriegn release because of region coding.
Now if HD DVD was the only HD media, i'd have access to everything, from everywhere, at anytime
...but I wouldn't be able to import foriegn release because of region coding.
Now if HD DVD was the only HD media, i'd have access to everything, from everywhere, at anytime
Now, you actually noticed that most BD movies are indeed region free, you wouldn't be trying to make such a fuss...
http://bluray.liesinc.net/
http://80.161.213.38:81/
Now, you actually noticed that most BD movies are indeed region free, you wouldn't be trying to make such a fuss...
http://bluray.liesinc.net/
http://80.161.213.38:81/
2nd link doesn't work, and first one shows a list where half the disks don't work. So what was that you were saying about my arguments not making much sense? HD DVD is 100% region free. Blu-way appears to be about 50%. My "arguement" (if you can even call it that, as I wasn't arguing really) was that if HD DVD was the only provider we woudln't have to worry about importing. If Blu Ray is the only provider, we will. Until you can prove that otherwise, I think your
But my point stands, region coding was number 4 on my list, something I care about, but not a whole lot. More so than audio, but less so than cost, content, and DRM. But like I said, this is for me, everyone has different takes on it.
Nice...this is the future. I hate optical discs.
I guess.... when it comes to the J6P mass market, the region code wouldn't be an issue unless the spider-man series get released early with region code in UK?
Blu-ray Burner Demand Rises for Q4
Taiwan Blu-ray burner manufacturers are reporting that they have received some rather large inquiries and orders for Blu-ray burning PC drives. Because prices for BD burners remains high, orders are usually for anywhere between 2,000 to 3,000 units. However, recent inquires and orders by US and European companies are now ten times that, between 20,000 to 30,000 units, signifying that retailers and computer manufacturers may be preparing for a Blu-ray push this fall.
Taiwan manufacturers note that, at least for now, they will be able to meet demand, but if more manufacturers make orders as large as what they are receiving today, they may fall short. Additionally, the lasers necessary for these burners may run into supply issues if Japanese manufacturers can't keep up with demand.
Could Apple finally be getting around to making Blu-ray drives a BTO option for Mac Pros?
Could Apple finally be getting around to making Blu-ray drives a BTO option for Mac Pros?
Something to ponder, but the current version of OS X doesn't support UDF 2.5 (needed for Blu-ray and HD DVD), but Leopard does. I wouldn't be surprised to see new drives around the time Leopard ships. Additionally, from what I read over at Ars, part of the AACS spec states that the operating system must have a protected path for media, something Apple doesn't currently do. Add to the fact that the Cinema displays, and the Mac Pro graphics cards, would need to be updated to use HDMI, I think it is a little more than just swapping in a Blu-Ray drive. Sure, it will eventually happen, but I say not until Leopard at least.